JoRed4 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Hello, this is my first post... My fiancé & I met in Perth 7 years ago, both backpackers, he had set off from his home in Leeds & me from Co. Kerry, Ireland... 7 years later & we want to go back... For good.. My job title is an Officer Manager, I work in a Commercial Agency (we market pubs), I hold no paper qualifications. My fiancé owns his own garden fencing business, he holds no paper qualifications, however he has worked in this business since he was 16, he is 27 & I am 28. We have no children & we are getting married in September... Can anyone tell me whether or not going through my fiancé via his experience in his trade whether will we be eligible to apply for migration via the skilled visa option? We spent a lot of time in Melbourne & that is where we would ideally like to settle, although we loved Perth as well. I have emailed Vetasses & asked pretty much the same question & we have tickets to attend the Down Under Live Seminar in Leeds at the end of March, which will hopefully be helpful & informative.... Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated... Cheers Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mary Cockerill Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Hi JoRed VETASSESS will not answer your questions. Sad but true. How long has your husband had his own business. How many employees does he have? It is highly unlikely that he would obtain a positive TRA assessment. But depending on the answers to my two questions he may qualify for assessment as a General Manager. As an owner of a small business. Hope that helps. Regards Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Ho JoRed Welcome to Poms in Oz. Mary Cockerill does not work in Australia. Only migration agents who do work in Australia are required to be Registered Migration Agents and to abide by the rules set by the OMARA: https://www.mara.gov.au/ You can always find out whether somebody who offers migration advice and/or assistance is registered or not by searching the Register of Agents, which is a statutory public document and it is here: https://www.mara.gov.au/agent/ARSearch.aspx?FolderID=394 DIAC is the Aussie Department of Immigration and Citizenship. They do not require that somebody who applies for a visa should use a migration agent - registered or unregistered - at all. However they do advise that if one is going to spend money on a third party who wants to earn some fees out of interfering with your private affairs, DIAC reckon that it is prudent to ensure that you use only a Registered Migration Agent: Migration Agents – Applications & Forms Mary has been very busy on Poms in Oz today - having only joined it today. In one of her several replies, the person (the Original Poster, or OP in forum-speak) asking the question is in Sydney and has asked about lodging a Partner visa application in Sydney. Not to worry! Despite a lack of relevance to the OP's question, Mary has informed the OP that Mary regularly submits Partner applications somewhere in South Africa and she has explained the drills for making an offshore application in South Africa. I am sure that this is of great use to somebody who is in Sydney and proposes to make an onshore application in Sydney. Mary is 100% entitled to practice as an unregistered migration agent because she is not doing that in Australia. However, MARA-registration does ensure that the RMA will adhere to some basic rules which are set by the Australian Government. Also, the Office of the MARA is directly controlled by DIAC, who are the enforcers of the rules relating to Registered Migration Agents. So if an RMA lets you down, DIAC can do something about protecting you and your interests. If an offshore agent who is not Registered lets you down, on your own heads be it because the Aussie Government is powerless in that situation. If the unregistered agent is in the UK, the British Government has declined to do anything about unregistered agents in the UK who offer paid advice about migration to Australia. The British Government only gets involved if the agent is offering advice about migration to the UK or the EU (including moving around within the EU.) Vetassess will not guide you through the visa process. However they can and do answer questions posed by members of the public if the questions are relevant to Vetassess. A-Z Occupations List - Australian Skills Recognition Information You say that you are an Office Manager but that you have no qualifications at present. That occupation is here: Office Manager 3291-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information Before it would be possible for you to make an application for a skilled independent visa, you would have to obtain a formal skills assessment from Vetassess. As of 1st January 2010, Vetassess require that you must obtain a qualification if you wish to obtain a skills assessment from them. They also now insist that the qualification must be relevant to the occupation which you wish to nominate to Vetassess. If you have no qualifications at all then Vetassess' stance now is that you are not skilled. Therefore you would have to get the reevant qualification and then get at least a year of practical experience after that. All of this information is actually on the Vetassess website if you read it closely and carefully: Applying for a general professional occupation - VETASSESS Follow the various links and you will see that your questions are answered. My fiancé owns his own garden fencing business Mmmm. Garden fencing is obviously a trade skill. Does your OH hold any trade qualifications of any sort? Landscape Gardener? General Gardener? That sort of thing? The relevant skills assessment authority would be Trades Recognition Australia. They require proof of (a) formal qualifications; (b) of a skill which is on the SOL - which Garden Fencer isn't; and © evidence either of a period spent as an apprentice OR the Aussie AQF III qualification. Again, if you can find an occupation which is on the ASRI List, it gives a link to the TRA website and the website then explains the whole thing. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mary Cockerill Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 HI All I have never indicated that I am a registered agent. I have clearly indicated that I am in South Africa and have where possible clearly stated that I am indicating how various issues are handled from a SA perspective. However, the requirements and regulations remain the same no matter where the applicaiton is being lodged. When the applicant for a Spouse / fiance or de facto application is in South Africa the application is lodged and processed at the Australian High Commission in Pretoria. It is unfortunate that I had miss read the posting. When I indicated that VETASSESS wont answer questions it was not meant that they wouldn't answer general questions but that they wont give an indication of assessment outcome to a specific 'will my qualificaitons be acceptable' question. Once again apologies for not articulating correctly. No it is not necessary to use an agent registered or not, however it is apparent from many of the postings, that people can become very vexed by the complexities of the whole process. I feel it is the role of the agent to navigate those complexities on behalf of the applicant. The forth coming changes have obviously got everyone wondering which way is best. My apologies if I have offended the sensibilities of some as this was not my intentions. I have always considered that I have followed the intergity of the regulations that govern the Registered Migration Agents and fortunately non of my many clients have ever found cause to worry or complain about my services. From the references they provide and the referals that form the caucus of my buisness for the past 13 years are sufficient evidence of my competency. regards and again apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoRed4 Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Thank you to everyone for your responses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoRed4 Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Ho JoRed Welcome to Poms in Oz. Mary Cockerill does not work in Australia. Only migration agents who do work in Australia are required to be Registered Migration Agents and to abide by the rules set by the OMARA: https://www.mara.gov.au/ You can always find out whether somebody who offers migration advice and/or assistance is registered or not by searching the Register of Agents, which is a statutory public document and it is here: https://www.mara.gov.au/agent/ARSearch.aspx?FolderID=394 DIAC is the Aussie Department of Immigration and Citizenship. They do not require that somebody who applies for a visa should use a migration agent - registered or unregistered - at all. However they do advise that if one is going to spend money on a third party who wants to earn some fees out of interfering with your private affairs, DIAC reckon that it is prudent to ensure that you use only a Registered Migration Agent: Migration Agents – Applications & Forms Mary has been very busy on Poms in Oz today - having only joined it today. In one of her several replies, the person (the Original Poster, or OP in forum-speak) asking the question is in Sydney and has asked about lodging a Partner visa application in Sydney. Not to worry! Despite a lack of relevance to the OP's question, Mary has informed the OP that Mary regularly submits Partner applications somewhere in South Africa and she has explained the drills for making an offshore application in South Africa. I am sure that this is of great use to somebody who is in Sydney and proposes to make an onshore application in Sydney. Mary is 100% entitled to practice as an unregistered migration agent because she is not doing that in Australia. However, MARA-registration does ensure that the RMA will adhere to some basic rules which are set by the Australian Government. Also, the Office of the MARA is directly controlled by DIAC, who are the enforcers of the rules relating to Registered Migration Agents. So if an RMA lets you down, DIAC can do something about protecting you and your interests. If an offshore agent who is not Registered lets you down, on your own heads be it because the Aussie Government is powerless in that situation. If the unregistered agent is in the UK, the British Government has declined to do anything about unregistered agents in the UK who offer paid advice about migration to Australia. The British Government only gets involved if the agent is offering advice about migration to the UK or the EU (including moving around within the EU.) Vetassess will not guide you through the visa process. However they can and do answer questions posed by members of the public if the questions are relevant to Vetassess. A-Z Occupations List - Australian Skills Recognition Information You say that you are an Office Manager but that you have no qualifications at present. That occupation is here: Office Manager 3291-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information Before it would be possible for you to make an application for a skilled independent visa, you would have to obtain a formal skills assessment from Vetassess. As of 1st January 2010, Vetassess require that you must obtain a qualification if you wish to obtain a skills assessment from them. They also now insist that the qualification must be relevant to the occupation which you wish to nominate to Vetassess. If you have no qualifications at all then Vetassess' stance now is that you are not skilled. Therefore you would have to get the reevant qualification and then get at least a year of practical experience after that. All of this information is actually on the Vetassess website if you read it closely and carefully: Applying for a general professional occupation - VETASSESS Follow the various links and you will see that your questions are answered. Mmmm. Garden fencing is obviously a trade skill. Does your OH hold any trade qualifications of any sort? Landscape Gardener? General Gardener? That sort of thing? The relevant skills assessment authority would be Trades Recognition Australia. They require proof of (a) formal qualifications; (b) of a skill which is on the SOL - which Garden Fencer isn't; and © evidence either of a period spent as an apprentice OR the Aussie AQF III qualification. Again, if you can find an occupation which is on the ASRI List, it gives a link to the TRA website and the website then explains the whole thing. Cheers Gill Hello Gollywobbler, thank you for your reply which was very helpful. We have looked into the AQF III Qualification which seems the only way for us really.... Alot of the criteria listed under Landscape Gardening falls under what my finance does on a daily basis, so that is the route that we are going to go down... The guy who spoke to my OH from the Australian Skill Assessments UK Office said that even if the list changes at the end of April & Landscape Gardner isn't on it anymore, if he applies now, his application will still count, is that correct? What is your opinion on The State Sponsored Visa, a woman who works in my office, her husband is a qualified joiner, however she has been advised by gomatilda.com to apply via the state sponsorship route, I sent an email to gomatilda & they did not come back to me, but they got back to her, I wonder is that because her husband has a qualification & my OH only has experience & time served. Thanks again for your help & advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Hi JoRed A Landscape Gardener, according to the ASRI List, does as follows: Landscape Gardener 4623-13 - Australian Skills Recognition Information According to the ASCO Code, which for the moment is the authoritative, detailed document (and the one that both TRA and DIAC both rely on) a Landscape Gardener does at least 6 of the following tasks as part of his routine work: 1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997 Just because you get an AQF III certificate does not mean that you will necessarily also get through TRA under Skilled Pathway E. TRA will have a good look at what the applicant does all day long - via his own descriptions and photos, via what his employers and/or satisfied customers say and so on. They will not accept an AQF III ticket as being the be-all and end-all, neither will an AQF III assessor who understands all the ins and outs of Landscape Gardening necessarily accept anything that cannot be proven. If you get through the AQF III and the TRA process successfully, it is still not the end of the story. You then have to prove to DIAC that the person has nominated an occupation which is on the SOL and that this is what the person has been doing for a living. In order to work this out, DIAC consider the WHOLE of the ASCO Code (as do TRA) which is here: 1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997 The whole ASCO Code is enormous, and the DIAC staff wil be instructed to consider the whole thing carefully if they find themselves dealing with a visa application where the nominated occupation is on the current SOL but it is not on the new one. If you bang on about Fences, the CO is bound to wonder whether your OH is actually a Fence Erector 9919-15. It is perfectly possible for someone to prove that he has done a formal Landscape Gardening course and the whole bit, that he has the formal Landscape Gardening qualifications etc, but his Recent Work Experience might be as a Fence Erector, for example. Occupations which are below ASCO Group 4 are NOT on the current SOL. ASCO considers that ASCO Groups 8 & 9 are populated by people whose current and recent work experience is essentially un-skilled, even if they have the qualifications and training needed for a fully skilled occupation in ASCO Groups 1 to 4 inclusive. A Garden Labourer 9922-13 might also erect fences apparently, according to ASCO: 1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997 (This is irrelevant to you but right at the end of the Code there is a catch-all description, which is here: 1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997 Apparently the person in the link above might be a Grip. What is a Grip? I've never heard this word before in this context and I have no idea what a Grip is or what a Grip does for a living. It is a peculiarly Australian expression, I wonder?) Another bit of research that you could usefully do is to investigate what a typical Landscape Gardening course might involve in Australia: Recognition Australia, RPL,Horticulture,Business,qualification Richard Lynch used to do AQF III assessments for people out in Australia, and he either still does or certainly used to run Landscape Gardening courses as well: Recognition Australia, single qualification, RPL, assessment, Horticulture, Business III in Horticulture (Landscape) The compulsory elements of the course involve several different units. A candidate for an AQF III certificate would certainly be expected to know about all of the compulsory units and about some of the optional units as well. According to the Minister for Immi, International Students and the colleges they have attended have not scammed the Landscape Gardening courses in anything like the numbers who have allegedly scammed Hairdressing and Cookery, but he claims that Landscape Gardening and Automotive Mechanical type courses have both been scammed. Apparently the alleged scammers have focussed on courses that are easy to get onto - either because there are lots of courses or because Students choose other things - are easy enough to do once the International Student gets to Oz, do not require a vast amount of English Language proficiency either but which carried a lot of Points because they are 60 Point occupations plus they were on the old MODL. It is possible that the Minister might knock Landscape Gardening on the head for migration purposes, I guess. Darren Le'ake is the front man for Australian Skills Assessment and Darren is a Registered Migration Agent. He does not have to be registered because he lives in the UK but he has chosen to remain registered all the same. Darren is quite right to say that as long as you can: 1. Get the AQF III; AND 2. Get through TRA under Pathway E; AND 3. Apply for a GSM visa before the SOL changes then it would not matter if Landscape Gardener is not on the new SOL. In this situation, the occupation not being on the new SOL would not matter as long as the applicant is sure that he can prove his Nominated Occupation to DIAC in due course. I believe that TRA now allow themselves 30 working days (instead of the old 30 days) to process an application to them. How long would it take to organise an AQF III assessment first? I think you need to ask more questions, both of yourselves and of Darren, hun. I've no idea why Go Matilda have not responded to you. I don't work for the firm. Give Ian Harrop a ring and see what he thinks, I suggest: Registered Australian Migration Agents, UK - Ian Harrop and Associates Ian is another very well-respected and experienced RMA in the UK. He does not charge for an initial 15 minutes on the phone. Plus he works in this field, which I don't. Ian is likely to be able to give you some ball-park figures for the likely time-scales, plus he would tell you, honestly, what (if anything) he thinks you should do at this stage. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisandelaine Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 yes i spoke to gomatilda too, and they all seem to advise to try the sponser route, but i think its so if the changes effect the 175 visa then you will be ok to still go under the 176 visa, i am certainly no expert lol as i am in same boat as yourself, but just ahve done alot of research into this stuff. but i will say GOMATILDA wherte very very helpful to us, and have always relied to any questions. we decided not to use an agent just for moeny reasons, but if we were to use one i think it would be gomatilda for sure. chris and elaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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