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Guest Jamie Smith

Student visa issues

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Guest Jamie Smith

For those on this pathway, I suggest you look at moving your study courses to TAFE rather than private VET colleges.

 

It seems that we have a ten year cycle of boom and bust in encouraging and denying students who want to study in Australia and perhaps take up PR.

 

The repetition of allowing shonky colleges to operate is a worry, it shows a lack of organisational learning by Government departments like DEEWR. That is a failing of Government to apply proper legislation and to oversee the States that had delegated authorities to manage the colleges.

 

Source http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/genpdf/chamber/hansards/2001-08-08/0095/hansard_frag.pdf;fileType%3Dapplication%2Fpdf

 

I was actually looking to find if and why the link between students and PR was ever encouraged by Govt, as at the moment the Govt is balaming migration and education agents for promoting the PR thing so heavily. They were of course, but Government wanted them to.

 

Here is the proof, in spades, starting in about 2001:

 

"Applications for Permanent Residence Overseas students who gain their qualifications in Australia are preferred by Australian employers over those with overseas qualifications. In recognition of this fact, applicants with Australian qualifications who apply for permanent residence within six months of completion of their studies are exempted from the skilled work experience requirement. From 1 July 2001, successful tertiary qualified overseas students are able to apply for and be granted general skilled migration visas onshore."
Source - http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/statistics/popflows2001/chapter4_2.pdf

 

Have employers now changed their minds? Have DIAC policy planners changed their minds? Was this ever statistically proven or was it guesswork based on personal feelings held by the policy people?

 

The present Minister himself encourages students to find work and (tacitly encouraging them to obtain work visas or PR)

 

"It will encourage our education providers to ensure their students can make connections with employers in their nominated occupations and be work ready upon the completion of their course."
Source: http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/media-releases/2008/changes-to-2008-09-skilled-migration-program.pdf

 

Here we see the Government wanting students to apply for PR and remain in the country:

 

"One initiative introduced to attract migrants to regional Australia was the introduction (1 July 2003) of an additional 5 points under the GSM points test for overseas students who had studied and lived in regional Australia or a low population growth metropolitan area for at least 2 years. The purpose of this initiative is to encourage overseas students who have studied and lived in regional Australia to remain and contribute their skills to the benefit of these areas after they complete their studies."
Source http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/ewrwp/tourism/subs/sub47.pdf

 

And this from DIAC presentation to Parliament Joint Standing Committee On Migration Friday , 13 FEBRUARY 2004:

 

" Further, to encourage more overseas students with higher-level Australian qualifications to apply for migration, the following adjustments were made to the Australian qualifications points in the general points test. The five points for an Australian qualification were retained. The number of points for an Australian masters or honours degree at upper second division level or above was increased from five points to 10 points. That is available only where the applicant completed their undergraduate degree in Australia."

Source - Page M202 http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j7226.pdf

 

Other testimony in Hansard shows that SA, NT, Qld and Victoria Govts all encourage students to stay by using work visas and encourage their permanent settlement - hard to do without PR visas!

 

Therefore: It is NOT the fault of migration agents who marketed these education schemes, it has been publicly encouraged by Government and apparently by industry too. Education and migration agents were responding to the Government's initiatives, as they were expected to by Govt.

 

In response to Govt's present anti study-links-to-PR attitude, I think we'll see more of the private VET colleges closing before they go broke. That will cause whole countries to be disaffected and flow on into Universities and TAFE, to some degree, but of course these won't shut up shop.

 

The student sector might go into melt down.

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For those on this pathway, I suggest you look at moving your study courses to TAFE rather than private VET colleges.

 

It seems that we have a ten year cycle of boom and bust in encouraging and denying students who want to study in Australia and perhaps take up PR.

 

The repetition of allowing shonky colleges to operate is a worry, it shows a lack of organisational learning by Government departments like DEEWR. That is a failing of Government to apply proper legislation and to oversee the States that had delegated authorities to manage the colleges.

 

Source http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/genpdf/chamber/hansards/2001-08-08/0095/hansard_frag.pdf;fileType%3Dapplication%2Fpdf

 

I was actually looking to find if and why the link between students and PR was ever encouraged by Govt, as at the moment the Govt is balaming migration and education agents for promoting the PR thing so heavily. They were of course, but Government wanted them to.

 

Here is the proof, in spades, starting in about 2001:

 

 

 

Source - http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/statistics/popflows2001/chapter4_2.pdf

 

Have employers now changed their minds? Have DIAC policy planners changed their minds? Was this ever statistically proven or was it guesswork based on personal feelings held by the policy people?

 

The present Minister himself encourages students to find work and (tacitly encouraging them to obtain work visas or PR)

 

 

 

Source: http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/media-releases/2008/changes-to-2008-09-skilled-migration-program.pdf

 

Here we see the Government wanting students to apply for PR and remain in the country:

 

 

 

Source http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/ewrwp/tourism/subs/sub47.pdf

 

And this from DIAC presentation to Parliament JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON MIGRATION FRIDAY, 13 FEBRUARY 2004:

 

 

 

Source - Page M202 http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j7226.pdf

 

Other testimony in Hansard shows that SA, NT, Qld and Victoria Govts all encourage students to stay by using work visas and encourage their permanent settlement - hard to do without PR visas!

 

Therefore: It is NOT the fault of migration agents who marketed these education schemes, it has been publicly encouraged by Government and apparently by industry too. Education and migration agents were responding to the Government's initiatives, as they were expected to by Govt.

 

 

In response to Govt's present anti study-links-to-PR attitude, I think we'll see more of the private VET colleges closing before they go broke. That will cause whole countries to be disaffected and flow on into Universities and TAFE, to some degree, but of course these won't shut up shop.

 

 

 

The student sector will go into melt down.

 

 

Dont know if this is a reaction of any relevence but the Tafes in Wa have taken on the title Polytechniks and this has only been in the last week or so


Here at last:jiggy:

SUFC life not a pastime

I limit myself to 2 drinks a day, I`m now 10 years in front make that 15

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Guest Gollywobbler

Hi Jamie

 

Glenn Pereira has spent the last 5 or 6 months predicting that the whole International Education sector in Oz will collapse. That is nothing new. Glenn believes that this collapse will cause a double-dip recession, at least in some of the States in Oz. I only have a hazy idea of how many International Students each State currently has, how many "Aussies" (ie Australian Citizens and Permanent Residents of Oz) owe their employment to International Education either directly or indirectly in each State etc.

 

The newspaper and TV stuff has given me the impression that there are loads of Inidian Students in Melbourne and loads of Students from the Peoples Republic of China in Sydney, but this is a very subjective impression - from the media highlights only - so I could be totally wrong about this. I have a vague impression that VIC and NSW will suffer the most if the International Education industry does collapse, but am I right about that?

 

There is absolutely NO doubt in my miind that back in 1999 to 2001/2002, John Howard had "brainchildren" about Immigration to Oz. We were following his antics with the Contributory Parent Scheme because we wanted to get my elderly mother into Oz. Apparently the Opposition threw the Contributory Parent scheme out of Parliament 2 or 3 times before they finally agreed to it.

 

Because we were watching Howard + Immigration for other reasons, we noticed what he was up to with International Students as well. He absolutely insisted that Australia was short of skilled people and that the skills shortage went right across the board - from the Brain Surgeon down to and including the Bricklayer, if you like.

 

Howard's theory was that if you could get the unskilled to go to Australia, they could be taught the whole range of skills in Australia. The whole world told him, "Clever idea, except.... Australia is not seen as an international centre of excellence for Education. If anybody wants a good education they tend to come to the UK or go to the USA because both have very high standards, both are English speaking and everyone is learning to speak English. There is no great International Wish to go to Australia for any sort of Education, so how are you going to overcome that problem, chum?"

 

Howard's response was that Australia is a huge place. There is more than enough habitable land and more than enough potable water in the place. According to Howard, if the Aussies made a direct link between studying in Oz and becoming a Permanent Resident of Oz, wannabe Students would flock to Australia.

 

Everyone else could see that Howard's Idea would probably work. However everyone else could also foresee that the Aussie Government would probably regret the Idea within a decade as well. We all knew that the UK has never made this direct link and as far as I know, the USA has never made it either. There was clearly a reason why the British Government had rejected the idea of a link so it seemed pretty stupid to me that Australia wanted a link, suddenly.

 

However Oz is a large place and somebody has to sweep the streets in the place, plus clean the public loos. Apparently one of the purposes of immigration to the UK in the 1960s was that the British were becoming Too Posh to Push, in effect. The British Government's excuse was The British Empire, I believe. As the former Ruler, we had a duty to accept the people from the countries which had gained their independence from the UK, apparently. I couldn't particularly see why myself, but Govts are Govts!

 

Whatever, the streets got swept and the public loos got cleaned. I noticed the Ladies public loos - always cleaned by Indian ladies from about 1967 onwards. I've never bothered to notice who drives the road sweeping machines.

 

I suspect that the truth in the UK was that the UK wanted to attract a pool of unskilled labour so that the immigrants could do the low paid jobs which the British refused to get involved with by the late 1960s. I can remember the old days in the UK when an English lady with her hair in curlers and a fag in her mouth cleaned the public loos but she was ancient and no British youngster was going to replace her, that is for sure. Getting Indian ladies to come and do it seemed like a good idea to me....

 

Out in Oz, Howard went on his own merry way with the Students. I believe that the Howard Govt didn't actually care whether some of the colleges were shonky and taught to rubbishly low standards if they taught anything at all. I think the whole thing turned into a device to get the unskilled - willing to do low paid jobs - into Australia via the back door, frankly. I reckon that when the Official Papers from Howard's time are eventually released, history will prove that I'm right about this one.

 

But what the hell? The device made pots of money for Australia so why should anyone else bother about it?

 

I did not know until very recently that there are annual targets for GSM migration etc. The Minister told the Senate Estimates Committee on 20th Oct 2009 that there were about 400,000 overseas Students in Oz as at 30th June 2009. (Senator F-W was hung up about how many of them overstayed their visas - very few every year, apparently. The Minister thought that about 3,500 recent Students had given up their courses and had become overstayers and apparently Mr Metcalfe had told him that the total was about 50,000 and had been about 50,000 for many years.)

 

Unfortunately the Senators did not ask how many of these 400,000 Students either had asked for or would be likely to ask for PR in Australia. At the time the illegal boat-people were Hot News in Australia and the overstayer debate was founded on that, I suspect. It certainly wasn't founded on the GSM program instead but it will be tomorrow because the Minister's new announcement has even reached the BBC in the UK! The Senators will be bubbling with the news tomorrow, for sure.

 

Politically, it will suit both sides to maintain the pure fiction that uncrupulous migration agents and education agents have diddled the masses from India and the PRC into believing that a 2 year course of study (obtained via shonky means in Oz) will automatically lead to PR in Oz. They will also gloss over the fact that successive Govts allowed this very idea to work very well and to work completely unchecked in terms of numbers until Minister Evans decided to target the GSM backlog in 2009. It will be much easier to blame everyone else than to blame the real culprits - the last and present Australian Governments.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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Guest Jamie Smith

Hi Gill

 

I've sent a lot of info to several journalists showing that Govt has driven the programme numbers uowards and DEEWR is resposnible for it's recent failure.

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