New MODL being released on Mon 8 Feb 2010

[WAITINGGAME]

I am going to Wesley Mission to pray for TOMORROW's new MODL list! Amen!

 

 

Mondays MODL ......Pls pray for me to and probably everyone else on PIO...we need it !!

 

Amen Amen Amen !!......if it turns out bad..kill the vicar....:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

[McKlaut]

Does anyone else see the irony of Evans, as the leader - supposedly by example - of a bureaucracy with a slogan of "People our Business", taking his advisors' advice to make the initial announcement to a group of unionists, business organisations and business leaders?

 

 

 

Yes, Susan, it's a huge irony!! Thanks for bringing to our attention!

Another confirmation that migrants are just money sacks for those whose aim is "people - our business".

[mr luvpants]

I'll even go back to the jehovahs witnesses if it is going to help!:biglaugh:

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Jamie

 

Thanks for your in-depth reply.

 

The cynic in me says the stats released show DIAC budgeting for an increase in (arranged) marriages as a result of students being cut off from a clear PR pathway. Apparently there is already an underground industry focused on these students offering partners, weddings and documentation....

 

 

Hmmm. I wouldn't be surprised. Villains will be villains and they will continue to do villainy (and to make money) one way or another. It is the way of the world.

 

With regard to the half-yearly figures, the more that DIAC wriggle about producing them, the more determined I am to get hold of them. As you say, they are public documents so DIAC can't hide them forever.

 

I decided to ask DIAC for them again, informally and by myself. If they give in and give them to me, the chances are that I will be too lazy to do anything with them apart from publish them on a tiny, trivial, amateur Internet forum and pass them to a few RMAs to get them analysed properly so that we can find out what they mean, what they signify for the waiting GSM applicants etc.

 

I hope that The Word has gone back to Canberra that if I have to ask a well-known Aussie journalist to make a formal demand for the figures instead, he is likely to sell them to other newspapers, analyse them himself and write his own findings in The Age, air his views on ABC Radio etc as well as passing the figures to me.

 

It is not in DIAC's best interests to be difficult about this so I'm hoping that they won't be.

 

Apparently DIAC (or at any rate Mr Wilden) is miffed, too. He accepts what I've said on here - ie that he gets paid to put up with flak and his shoulders are broad enough to take it. However, he said, if colleagues of his in Australia weren't busily demonstrating DIAC's desire to be as co-operative and communicative as possible, it would not be possible for Mr Wilden to get the detailed information that he undoubtedly can and does get from the ASPC. Mainly on behalf of British applicants because they are mainly the people who have contacted him.

 

But I've been well-nasty about some of his colleagues and DIAC in general apparently. I've hit that one straight back. Why are the British and a handful of European applicants the only people who can get any sort of proper standard of "service" out of the angels who run DIAC?

 

Why is there NO senior DIAC Officer appointed to look after the interests of the onshore Student and ex-Students by providing them with proper information? Why do High Risk applicants hear one version of their own Stories from the ASPC but when they follow it up by asking the Aussie Embassies in their own countries about the alleged delays - allegedly caused by those Embassies - it turns out that the Aussie Embassy concerned either replied back to the ASPC ages ago or the Embassy has never heard from the ASPC about the relevant applicant at all?

 

Why are no senior DIAC Officers standing in Mr Wilden's shoes to get to the bottom of what really goes on with HR applications once DIAC get hold of them?

 

Leave it to the ASPC or to Peter Speldewinde (though how he comes into it is a mystery to me) and his minions just push out the Standard Letter that was devised by Mr Speldewinde ages ago. That goes out of its way to repeat the Ministerial Mantra but it does not answer a single, specific question from anybody, ever.

 

If DIAC want to be seen to manage the present fiasco properly, my advice to them is that they must appoint a group of senior Mr Wildens, one for each major region of the world, and a separate one in Oz for the Students and ex-Students to contact.

 

There might be something wrong with the e-mails from Mr Wilden to me. I e-mailed him on 11th Jan, he replied on 14th Jan but I didn't get that e-mail till he sent another copy of it on 26th Jan. I replied to that within 24 hours but haven't heard any more.

 

I think on Monday I'll copy my e-mail to Mr Wilden's secretary, since I have her name. I'll ask her to check his e-mails and to forward any reply he may have sent. It could be that I'm waiting patiently for the Aussie Government when they have already replied.

 

Tiscali, my ISP, has recently been taken over by TalkTalk. The alleged hopelessness of the latter may be causing e-mails to vanish.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[McKlaut]

Suggestions, that EVERYONE email the senators on the committee once Monday's announcements become clear, voicing support or disapproval in terms of how it affects your own case.

 

Let's feed the debate and make sure the policy makers are fully informed about the effects of what is announced.

 

:Randy-git:

Good idea indeed.

However, we won't have enough time to digest the information and write good letters. Let's see.

 

I just think, the minister might announce changes to the migration quota for this year as well. Hmm. up or down...

[vandm]

:arghh:why cant diac just listen to the states and the people and sort this mess out or start refunding lost app fees !!!

 

bulls eye mate. seeing all this i think i should have gone and played russian roulette with the money i used to apply! i would have had a better chance of succeeding over there than here! previously i used to get worked up reading all this stuff. but now all this is passe. lets see what else the aussie govt is going to throw at us. c'mon ya mate i'm ready for it. even if changes in the form of godzilla come our way dont be surprised, after all the aussie govt has already pocketed your money and hence you are all at their mercy.amen.:realmad:

[Graemsay]

My guess is that Monday's announcement will cover:

 

• The Future Skills List, which is intended as a replacement or enhancement of the MODL and CSL.
  
• A re-ordering of the points that certain occupations earn, and their membership in the MODL, CSL and FSL.
  
• Possibly a reduction in the numbers of 175 visas, or even their complete scrapping. DIAC has been making noises about Australia being the only country that allows immigrants to gain unrestricted PR without having a job or sponsor first.
  

 

The noises coming out of DIAC are that the FSL is targeting highly qualified professionals who can contribute to a knowledge based economy. So it's probably bad news for hairdressers and chefs and good news for engineers, researchers and scientists.

 

I'm a bit nervous. My current situation is that my application is in front of my CO.I think that I've got 120 points (as of today) and am after a 175 visa. Meds and PCC have been received by the ASPC, so it should just be a case of finishing off the paperwork.

 

On the upside I've got Victoria SS (my get out of jail free card), and I think that I'm the sort of person who's likely to be on the FSL, so it should be OK...

[SHANO7]

Graemsay

 

Before you start speculating please look at an earlier post on thsi thread that published a list of jobs in demand. You will see that as of dec 09 Hairdessing & Chefs are in the top 10.

 

Im glad that you are so confident that you will be on and FSL list and hope it works out for you but perhaps you can speculate in your mind. I know this is a forum but a lot of qualified Hardressers and Chefs have applied in good faith and are nervous as you are so comments like yours will just add to the stress.

 

Shane

[Graemsay]

Hi Shane, I saw the earlier post about a shortage of hairdressers in Australia.

 

My comment is from a quote by someone from the government (not sure if he was a minister or civil servant) stating that it was easier for a hairdresser to emigrate to Australia than it was for a physicist.

 

The Vetassess requirements are generally a relevant qualification and at least one year's working experience. For a hairdresser that will probably be a diploma (one year?), whereas a physicist would have a minimum of a BSc (three years) and probably a PhD (another three to four years). Hairdressers get 60 points for their occupation, plus 15 points for being on the MODL, whereas Physicists will get 50 points for their occupation, but as it isn't on the MODL won't get anything extra for that.

 

(Incidentally, the ACS requirements for a computer programmer are a relevant degree and four years' experience, or eight years without a degree.)

 

So I get the impression that the FSL is going to be more forward looking, and if the agenda is to develop more of an R&D capability in the country then migration is going to be prioritised towards science / technology / engineering / research.

[cartertucker]

If your visa application has already been lodged, im pretty sure you are safe from any changes to it.....:yes:

[cartertucker]

Hi All

 

George Lombard told me some time ago that if someone applies for a visa and his occupation is on the MODL at the time of the application, this person will NOT lose any Points if his occupation is later removed from the MODL before the visa is granted.

 

So for any existing applicants who are worrying about their Points, please don't worry about this. According to George, MODL points are protected by a special legislative provision and I am 100% certain that George is right about this.

 

Apart from this, I am not going to speculate about the article in the Age, which is a respected Aussie newspaper, I am told.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

Think this post from Gill may help ease your worry....:smile:

[SHANO7]

Hi Graemesay

 

Im not dissagreeing with your comments and to be honest it does seem easier. However it is the DIAC that created this list as a result of some occupations being more in demand than others and as a result this is our avenue to seek migration. We are not in the category that decide to live in OZ and then train for a Job in demand. My wife has been a Haidresser since the age of 17 ( now 37).

 

Im hoping that as Hairdressing was and is currently still in demand then the Oz govt will honour applications already in the system and not make any changed retrospective.

 

Please dont think I was being arguementative I was just venting my frustrations

Regards

Shane

[Guest pogo]

I think this thread become most active and popular thread in one day. Gill, is it break previous record done by any previous thread?

[cartertucker]

I think this thread become most active and popular thread in one day. Gill, is it break previous record done by any previous thread?

 

 

I'd say the 'September 23rd news' thread sure attracted alot of attention!....:shocked:

[capetosydney]

I'd say the 'September 23rd news' thread sure attracted alot of attention!....:shocked:

 

Wait till Monday for new Feb 8th changes thread.Ther is sure to be some serious fireworks....get some more popcorn and pull the chair closer....:jiggy:

[Proview220]

some very good post here, looking forward to Mondays update.

 

Proview

[libbysmum]

My guess is that Monday's announcement will cover:

 

• The Future Skills List, which is intended as a replacement or enhancement of the MODL and CSL.

• A re-ordering of the points that certain occupations earn, and their membership in the MODL, CSL and FSL.

• Possibly a reduction in the numbers of 175 visas, or even their complete scrapping. DIAC has been making noises about Australia being the only country that allows immigrants to gain unrestricted PR without having a job or sponsor first.

The noises coming out of DIAC are that the FSL is targeting highly qualified professionals who can contribute to a knowledge based economy. So it's probably bad news for hairdressers and chefs and good news for engineers, researchers and scientists.

 

I'm a bit nervous. My current situation is that my application is in front of my CO.I think that I've got 120 points (as of today) and am after a 175 visa. Meds and PCC have been received by the ASPC, so it should just be a case of finishing off the paperwork.

 

On the upside I've got Victoria SS (my get out of jail free card), and I think that I'm the sort of person who's likely to be on the FSL, so it should be OK...

 

 

Its true that at present it's easier for a hairdresser to gain a GSM visa over a highly skilled professional. I am a scientist/secondary teacher and the OH a hairdresser and it certainly was easier for the OH to gain the necessary points for a 175 GSM visa. It is also true that the number of hairdressing positions advertised across aussie job sites are at least 4-5 times the number of positions advertised for the science and technology sector as a whole! (unless i'm looking in the wrong places!!) The science/technology sector is very diverse and if you look at specific science positions, for example my experience is in life science/biotechnology vacancies are few and far between.

 

I think it is completley pointless for the aussie government to be trying to make it easier for scientists to make the move when the opportunites and employment prospects are just not there.

 

Thus if my Oh was "unskilled" and it was down to me to be the main visa applicant, I would have deep misgivings regarding applying for a GSM visa. I wouldn't want to risk uprooting my family, taking them away from all that is familiar to them and subjecting them to an emotional rollercoaster when the prospects of being able to find a good job to be able to support them look so slim.

 

As it is, we applied for the 175 in december, with the OH being the main applicant as a hairdresser. we are now on tenderhooks to see what may or maynot be announced and how this may or maynot affect our application. We are presuming our points will be safe, however uncertainty remains on the processing timeframes, will the visa EVER be processsed?? Could we be stuck at the end of a long queue indefinitely?? I hope that we see some methodology incorporated into any changes which will allow experienced hairdressers/tradies with many years of specific work experience to get their visa sooner rather than later!!

[Guest bebac30]

some very good post here, looking forward to Mondays update.

 

Proview

Me too :notworthy:

[George Lombard]

Just to describe the mechanics of what will happen on Monday - assuming the Minister makes his announcement during business hours on Monday, it's highly unlikely that the detail of the changes will be on the DIAC site before then, and therefore the full details will most likely only come out on Tuesday morning Australian time. It's possible that they might publish a press statement on the Minister's website shortly after the announcement.

 

The nature of the article which Sheelagh identified as the basis of this thread is that it's most likely intended to test the water of public opinion before going ahead with the changes. I'm sure that interested parties have been indulging in furious lobbying over the weekend, and the ink won't be dry on the detail on whatever announcement they make. The 457 changes announced in September were done in that kind of rush, obviously the Minister's staff thrive on adrenalin rather than calm appraisal of detail.

 

The first report is likely to be on a news wire but probably without much detail, and that will be picked up by the ABC at ABC.net.au, but the only reliable statement of the changes will be on DIAC's front page at Department of Immigration & Citizenship.

 

Good luck to everyone waiting.

 

Cheers,

 

George Lombard

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Graemesay

 

Im not dissagreeing with your comments and to be honest it does seem easier. However it is the DIAC that created this list as a result of some occupations being more in demand than others and as a result this is our avenue to seek migration. We are not in the category that decide to live in OZ and then train for a Job in demand. My wife has been a Haidresser since the age of 17 ( now 37).

 

Im hoping that as Hairdressing was and is currently still in demand then the Oz govt will honour applications already in the system and not make any changed retrospective.

 

Please dont think I was being arguementative I was just venting my frustrations

Regards

Shane

 

Hi Shane

 

I appreciate that this weekend will be nerve-stretching for you.

 

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S12494.pdf

 

I've been re-reading the Hansard from the Senate Estimates Committee on 20th October 2009. Pages 69 to 79-ish are the only pages that are relevant to anyone who has applied for PR visas, I reckon. I'm using the page numbering from Hansard, not the Adobe page numbering.

 

The actual newspaper report is in the link below:

 

Skilled migration shake-up

 

Andrew Metcalfe would regard changing the parting in his hair to the other side of his head as a "significant policy reform" so I'm not particularly worried by his claims.

 

I reckon that the impact of the latest changes will be felt in the International Education sector pretty heavily. Hansard shows that the Minister is determined to break a cycle that he says really started in about 2003.

 

The history of it is that in 2001, the Howard Government hit upon the idea that unskilled workers could be brought to Australia from overseas. In exchange for shed loads of money, they could become International Students in Oz. Australia would give them the necessary training. Then they would become skilled workers, which would provide a pathway to Permanent Residency in Australia in the long term.

 

I do vaguely remember some serious newspaper articles about the idea at the time. The Aussie Government insisted that theirs was a brilliant idea. Everybody else shook their heads and said it was a bluddy daft idea which would cause more problems than it would solve in the long term. I don't think any other country adopted the same notion and the UK definitely didn't adopt it.

 

Nonetheless, Howard pressed on with his brainchild, In the UK, I remember that most commentators shrugged and thought, "Australia is thousands of miles away from here anyway. We've told the loony Aussies not to touch the idea with a bargepole. Now it's up to them. They'll regret this daft idea of theirs within 10 years but they are determined to find out the hard way. They won't listen to wiser heads than theirs which have run empires before, have much longer histories etc, so let them get on with it."

 

I think the gloomy predictions made 9 or 10 years ago have simply come true, that's all. Australia didn't have enough skilled people 10 years ago. It also didn't have the people who could control the International Education sector properly. Short term the idea definitely made a fortune for Australia as the International Education sector in Oz burgeoned, created lots of jobs etc.

 

With any legislation that is weak, poorly thought out and slammed onto the statute book in great haste, the Government which slammed it there isually ends up being kicked out and a new Government then has to undo a complete mess.

 

Since the Aussies were keen to attract tradies by training them in Oz as well as University graduates, predictably successive MODLs were exploited by the International Education industry, because of the link with PR in Oz. If the Govt in Oz had said from the start, "The MODL is reserved for people who have obtained their qualifications and their work-experience overseas," that would have prevented the problems which are being felt now. The International Education industry in Oz wouldn't have spiralled into such a huge industry but it also wouldn't have un-balanced the skilled immigration program in the way that it has.

 

Your MODL points definitely won't be affected because you have already applied for your visas. You have applied for State sponsorship, so you will go into Cat 5 as soon as that comes through. You have done the right thing by applying for a subclass 175 visa in October 2009 instead of waiting for your WA SS to come through. It won't make a blind bit of difference to you if Hairdresser is removed from the MODL on Monday.

 

In your shoes, Shane, I wouldn't be at all worried about Monday so far as you and your own family are concerned.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi George

 

The 457 changes announced in September were done in that kind of rush, obviously the Minister's staff thrive on adrenalin rather than calm appraisal of detail.

 

 

I reckon that the Minister is the one who thrives on adrenalin and that everyone else cringes in fear because he is so headstrong about everything!

 

Earlier this evening I investigated just who is on this Skilled Migration Consultative Panel.

 

Labor eHerald: Panel of experts to advise on changes to 457 visa program

 

Most of the people that the Minister will be making his announcement to already have reps on the Panel, it seems.

 

The SBDC released an annual Report fairly recently which came up on Google:

 

http://www.smallbusiness.wa.gov.au/assets/Corporate-Information/Annual-Report-2008-09/opsreport-migration.pdf

 

Evidently the SBDC has kept its place on the Panel, which is a wise thing in my view! Their Report is super-sane, it seems to me.

 

Sue Harcus is the SMO in Europe these days, based in London. A friend from PiO rang me a few days ago. He had been to a recent Expo in London and had met Sue there, running the WAGO stand. She told him that WA will need 140,000 additional workers within the next 5 to 10 years.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Graemsay]

Hi Shane, I think that my first post was perhaps a bit argumentative too.

 

In both your wife's case and mine, there's little to be gained beyond the basics. I was surprised that there weren't extra points on offer for degrees or even postgraduate qualifications.

 

The changes to immigration strike me as being driven by economic considerations (the Global Financial Crisis caused a reduction in numbers) and the political landscape (mass migration is unpopular with Australian voters).

 

I also get the impression that changes are made with little announcement in order to prevent would-be migrants from gaming the system. Unfortunately that doesn't help those of us who are at the mercy of DIAC.

 

So far the changes have benefited me. I'm on the CSL so I got bumped up the queue. Whether things look so good for me on Monday is a different question, and I'm concerned that points will change at the last minute.

 

We'll see.

[Guest Jamie Smith]

Just to describe the mechanics of what will happen on Monday - assuming the Minister makes his announcement during business hours on Monday, it's highly unlikely that the detail of the changes will be on the DIAC site before then, and therefore the full details will most likely only come out on Tuesday morning Australian time. It's possible that they might publish a press statement on the Minister's website shortly after the announcement.

 

The nature of the article which Sheelagh identified as the basis of this thread is that it's most likely intended to test the water of public opinion before going ahead with the changes. I'm sure that interested parties have been indulging in furious lobbying over the weekend, and the ink won't be dry on the detail on whatever announcement they make. The 457 changes announced in September were done in that kind of rush, obviously the Minister's staff thrive on adrenalin rather than calm appraisal of detail.

 

The first report is likely to be on a news wire but probably without much detail, and that will be picked up by the ABC at ABC.net.au, but the only reliable statement of the changes will be on DIAC's front page at Department of Immigration & Citizenship.

 

Good luck to everyone waiting.

 

Cheers,

 

George Lombard

 

And there we see the manipoulation of the process.

 

DIAC's multimillion dollar IT system and website can publish changes the MINUTE the Minister announces them, or before.

 

If the changes are indeed meant to be effective at midnight, then surely people are entitled to know the detail at the time of announcement so they can hurry their application or wait for new rules to apply.

 

Holding the detail until well after the announcement is nothing more than a cynical way of trying to reduce objections and urgent lodgements.:mad:

 

This is an adversarial apporach to the market, when a more consultative approach is required.

 

I don't expect a total focus on the FSL, people will be needed in all occupations as a result of ageing of the workforce. Even shop assistants and bus drivers need to retire.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

And there we see the manipoulation of the process.

 

DIAC's multimillion dollar IT system and website can publish changes the MINUTE the Minister announces them, or before.

 

If the changes are indeed meant to be effective at midnight, then surely people are entitled to know the detail at the time of announcement so they can hurry their application or wait for new rules to apply.

 

Holding the detail until well after the announcement is nothing more than a cynical way of trying to reduce objections and urgent lodgements.:mad:

 

This is an adversarial apporach to the market, when a more consultative approach is required.

 

I don't expect a total focus on the FSL, people will be needed in all occupations as a result of ageing of the workforce. Even shop assistants and bus drivers need to retire.

 

Hi Jamie

 

I agree with you.

 

However the Minister made it very clear last May and again in October that the problem with saying anything in advance is that the Minister's plans get diluted - albeit not completely defeated - by a sudden flurry of visa applications made at the last minute.

 

This Minister wants his own plans to work fairly soon. Which won't happen if he talks in advance. He is determined to change the whole basis of immigration to Oz but he is in such a hurry to do it tomorrow that he has borrowed a leaf from the book of his birth-land, frankly, "Ignore Parliament, find another way of making your plans work. Tell the press via some leaks but don't tell anyone else anything at all. Just present them with a fait accompli."

 

It destroys the principle of having a Parliament but the method has worked in the UK for some years now. The Minister is a Briton by birth..... :mad:

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[ramot]

I totally agree with this as it is so frustrating. My OH has 22 years exp, far more valuable than a graduate. I have been a graduate, been in that positon, yes I had a degree etc etc, I have quals coming out of everywhere!!! HOWEVER, I did not have the knowledge and experience.

 

I realise that you need to start somewhere, we all do. But when it is cut throat as the visas are, surely the best person for the visa should be assessed. Not the ones already there, have a qual and apply for the PR skilled visa, then not even do the job. The person who is going to go out and work and pay the taxes should get it!!!

 

Lets hope this is right. Hold tight....................................

 

Hi Rachbarlow,

 

Although a recent young graduate probably doesn't have much job experience, in my family members case, and many others, they are mature students, who fell short of the points needed due to age for immigration. So at the time, it made sense to gain good academic Australian qualifications, + the much needed extra points from study. So please bear on mind that some international students do also bring experience with them. Not intending to be in any way controversial, everyone whatever their situation is on a knife edge at the moment wondering what is going to be thrown at everyone next. Still got fingers crossed that if the application is already lodged that, according to George, not much can change!!?