The Brand New PIO Parents Visa thread

[SusieRoo]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

But surely, how else can they do it?  We always talk about the cost to "the government", but the government has no money of its own.  Its only source of funds is me and other Australian taxpayers.   

Not exactly true. Since the GFC most governments now simply print their own money and then give it to the banks, which lend to people to buy overpriced houses. Maybe better just to give some directly to us aging immigrant parents for replacement hips, zimmer frames and the odd games of bowls.

[Bigbobbyg]

This is not totally accurate , Australia gets most of its money from mineral sales , dependant parents pay a lot of tax , I have an Australian bank account and am being charged on the interest at 40% , I have complained to the bank it should be 10% , many of us want to work , isobutane can’t till my 143 comes through then I will be paying tax , if we can afford 100k for the visa costs then many of us will have other funds and pay tax , we are not looking for the Australian people to pay our old age costs most of us will cost the government nothing.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Bigbobbyg said:

This is not totally accurate , Australia gets most of its money from mineral sales , dependant parents pay a lot of tax , I have an Australian bank account and am being charged on the interest at 40% , I have complained to the bank it should be 10% , many of us want to work , isobutane can’t till my 143 comes through then I will be paying tax , if we can afford 100k for the visa costs then many of us will have other funds and pay tax , we are not looking for the Australian people to pay our old age costs most of us will cost the government nothing.

It sounds like you've chosen to come to Australia on a bridging visa, which we all know has major downsides. That was your choice so you can hardly complain about it.  I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the actual parents' visa. 

Are you really saying that once you get your 143, you'll insist on paying full price (not the government-subsidised price) for every prescription you receive?  That you will seek out a private GP and refuse to claim any rebate from Medicare?  That you'll refuse treatment in a public hospital even if you're rushed into emergency with a heart attack?  That you won't claim reduced fares on public transport or any other seniors' benefits?  

The reality is that most people these days survive well in to old age (for which I'm grateful, being in my sixties already).  But statistically, the great majority of people over 70 are on regular drugs and need far more medical intervention than a younger person just to  keep going.  And then we die, which often means even more medical intervention and a prolonged stay in hospital. So unless you've got a secret plan to drop dead of a brain aneurysm in your late 60's, it's unlikely you'll avoid costing the government a fair bit of money.  

I will too - but then I've contributed tax and Medicare levies to the Australian system for over 30 years, and continue to do so.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Marisawright

[ramot]

Don’t let this thread get personal. 

 Most of us realise that the approximate $50,000 per applicant we pay is a dropin the ocean compared to a lifetime working paying tax as an Australian resident. Yes some of us will probably end up sadly being more expensive than the cost of the visa, but no one is to blame for that, we aren’t intending to rort the system, just getting a visa that is offered with few conditions. No acces to centre link I think for 10 years? 

If our income is over a certain amount I assume we will pay the Medicare levy? We will be contributing to the economy, paying tax here, spending our money here for hopefully many years, many might have private health cover,

I don’t know if as a visitor/on a bridging visa with reciprocal rights do you pay full prescription rates or the reduced rate. We all have to accept the conditions of our temporary/bridging visas. Even though we live here long term on the long term self funded temporary visa we are allowed to pay the ruduced rate,there must be a reason? as we aren’t entitled to Medicare  but have always accepted the visa conditions  that we are totally self funded for almost everything. Would be lovely to have Medicare though!!

I expect most of us will end up costing our respective countries something over our lives.

Edited January 20, 2019 by ramot

[Catlady2014]

I have friends on parent visas who are still working well into their 70s and therefore paying tax.  There are others like myself who do voluntary work; and although the voluntary workers are not paying tax, they are providing free labour.  And of course many others are also providing free childcare for grandchildren, enabling the grandchildren's parents to work longer, earn more and consequently pay more tax.   With regard to Medicare, there are very many Aussies in the UK who receive NHS treatment that they may not have paid into, so there must also be some element of 'swings and roundabouts'. Since arriving in Australia, I've bought a new car and hired builders and tradies to build my extension onto the family home, bought new furniture and appliances, totalling around $230,000, as well as all the usual and ongoing things like food and clothing, rego and insurance, holidays,  utilities and entertainment, conservatively estimated at $10,000 per annum.  So, apart from the $55,000 odd in visa fees etc, am I not also contributing to the economy in other ways?  I just know that I've spent a heck of a lot of money in Australia, but I don't know where that fits into the financial calculations of my net cost to the country.  Assuming that I continue with my current voluntary work for, say another 10 years, I calculate (using a nominal figure of $30 per hour for my labour) that I will have contributed another $409,500.  The trouble with calculating these things is that there are far too many variables.  

[Marisawright]

I just want to make it clear that I have nothing against people who arrive on a parent visa. You pay the fee, you are entitled to the visa. 

I am pointing out why governments are reluctant to offer them, because they are a net cost to the economy, even taking into account voluntary work and childcare.  Old age is an expensive business.

Yes, if you come to Australia at 60 and live till you're 90, then you've made 30 years contributions in tax, purchases, volunteering, whatever.    But by that time I'll have made 60 years' contributions - and I'm sure I'll still be a cost to the government in medical care and age support in my old age.  That 30-year shortfall is what the Parent Visa Fee is supposed to make up for.

I doubt there is much in the way of "swings and roundabouts" because parents can't get a visa to enter the UK unless they are so frail they can't look after themselves.

[Toots]

6 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I just want to make it clear that I have nothing against people who arrive on a parent visa. You pay the fee, you are entitled to the visa. 

I am pointing out why governments are reluctant to offer them, because they are a net cost to the economy, even taking into account voluntary work and childcare.  Old age is an expensive business.

Yes, if you come to Australia at 60 and live till you're 90, then you've made 30 years contributions in tax, purchases, volunteering, whatever.    But by that time I'll have made 60 years' contributions - and I'm sure I'll still be a cost to the government in medical care and age support in my old age.  That 30-year shortfall is what the Parent Visa Fee is supposed to make up for.

I doubt there is much in the way of "swings and roundabouts" because parents can't get a visa to enter the UK unless they are so frail they can't look after themselves.

A lot of people overlook that fact.

[LindaH27]

ASo  those parents who do get a visa for UK are so frail that they can’t look after themselves ? Then they are going to cost the UK taxpayers an enormous amount of money for their care and medical treatment surely??  Australia will not allow any parent in who fails the medical but UK will ? Sounds a bit more of a burden for UK taxpayers.!  

Like many here I have already/will be making substantial contributions to the Australian economy via tax and expenditure. My understanding is that the $50000 cost of the visa isn't a figure plucked out of the air, it’s the Australian governments calculation  of the amount paid to Medicare by the average Australian over their working life so parents migrants -( at least those on  contributory visa) will have already paid and will continue to pay into Medicare and will not be allowed anything from Centrelink for 10 years which we are all aware of. This is unlike non contributory parent migrants who don’t pay anything like as much and can claim benefits after only two years. So there is a difference in what parents pay for their future care etc in Australia. All workers  of whichever country have paid tax (and National Insurance in UK) so wherever people live, for the most part we are all subsidising other people and some will end up claiming more than others. 

Also don’t forget that people who migrated to Australia years ago could if they so wished, return to the UK and after Three months would be entitled to NHS - without having paid into it for years. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by LindaH27

[michaleasmum]

20 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

ASo  those parents who do get a visa for UK are so frail that they can’t look after themselves ? Then they are going to cost the UK taxpayers an enormous amount of money for their care and medical treatment surely??  Australia will not allow any parent in who fails the medical but UK will ? Sounds a bit more of a burden for UK taxpayers.!  

Like many here I have already/will be making substantial contributions to the Australian economy via tax and expenditure. My understanding is that the $50000 cost of the visa isn't a figure plucked out of the air, it’s the Australian governments calculation  of the amount paid to Medicare by the average Australian over their working life so parents migrants -( at least those on  contributory visa) will have already paid and will continue to pay into Medicare and will not be allowed anything from Centrelink for 10 years which we are all aware of. This is unlike non contributory parent migrants who don’t pay anything like as much and can claim benefits after only two years. So there is a difference in what parents pay for their future care etc in Australia. All workers  of whichever country have paid tax (and National Insurance in UK) so wherever people live, for the most part we are all subsidising other people and some will end up claiming more than others. 

Also don’t forget that people who migrated to Australia years ago could if they so wished, return to the UK and after Three months would be entitled to NHS - without having paid into it for years. 

As previously, stated, most people who, apply for this visa have other income.  I too can understand the governments reluctance to supply "Free" healthcare to people have not paid into the system.  Would it not be a better idea to make it a condition of the Visa that, parents maintain private healthcare?  And receive, the appropriate tax relief? OK this would be expensive, but maybe our offspring could chip in in return for Childcare?  This may also reduce the numbers of people applying.

Speaking of Swings and roundabouts, I  have provided Australia with a fully qualified teacher and fully trained Mental health Nurse, most of the children who we are wanting to join have are highly qualified, and University educated, for which we as parents have made sacrifices.  These qualifications, which, have cost the Australian government nothing,  are benefiting the economy. Cake and eat it spring to mind!

Also as Cat Lady says we will be contributing in a variety of other  ways.

 

[Nemesis]

2 hours ago, LindaH27 said:

ASo  those parents who do get a visa for UK are so frail that they can’t look after themselves ? Then they are going to cost the UK taxpayers an enormous amount of money for their care and medical treatment surely??  Australia will not allow any parent in who fails the medical but UK will ? Sounds a bit more of a burden for UK taxpayers.!  

Like many here I have already/will be making substantial contributions to the Australian economy via tax and expenditure. My understanding is that the $50000 cost of the visa isn't a figure plucked out of the air, it’s the Australian governments calculation  of the amount paid to Medicare by the average Australian over their working life so parents migrants -( at least those on  contributory visa) will have already paid and will continue to pay into Medicare and will not be allowed anything from Centrelink for 10 years which we are all aware of. This is unlike non contributory parent migrants who don’t pay anything like as much and can claim benefits after only two years. So there is a difference in what parents pay for their future care etc in Australia. All workers  of whichever country have paid tax (and National Insurance in UK) so wherever people live, for the most part we are all subsidising other people and some will end up claiming more than others. 

Also don’t forget that people who migrated to Australia years ago could if they so wished, return to the UK and after Three months would be entitled to NHS - without having paid into it for years. 

There is no 3 month wait  If you return to live in the UK you are entitled to NHS care immediately. 

[Karen j]

This was from the NHS website

If you are moving abroad on a permanent basis, you will no longer be entitled to medical treatment in the UK under normal NHS rules. This is because the NHS is a residence-based healthcare system. Most people will also not be entitled to use a UK-issued EHIC card to access healthcare abroad.

[Tulip1]

7 hours ago, Catlady2014 said:

I have friends on parent visas who are still working well into their 70s and therefore paying tax.  There are others like myself who do voluntary work; and although the voluntary workers are not paying tax, they are providing free labour.  And of course many others are also providing free childcare for grandchildren, enabling the grandchildren's parents to work longer, earn more and consequently pay more tax.   With regard to Medicare, there are very many Aussies in the UK who receive NHS treatment that they may not have paid into, so there must also be some element of 'swings and roundabouts'. Since arriving in Australia, I've bought a new car and hired builders and tradies to build my extension onto the family home, bought new furniture and appliances, totalling around $230,000, as well as all the usual and ongoing things like food and clothing, rego and insurance, holidays,  utilities and entertainment, conservatively estimated at $10,000 per annum.  So, apart from the $55,000 odd in visa fees etc, am I not also contributing to the economy in other ways?  I just know that I've spent a heck of a lot of money in Australia, but I don't know where that fits into the financial calculations of my net cost to the country.  Assuming that I continue with my current voluntary work for, say another 10 years, I calculate (using a nominal figure of $30 per hour for my labour) that I will have contributed another $409,500.  The trouble with calculating these things is that there are far too many variables.  

You do these things but so will many others that have paid into the system for 40 years prior to that.  The 20 somethings will pay into the system, buy a house and car and will just as likely go on to look after the grandkids and volunteer too.  You say you’ve spent a lot of money in Australia but how much of that has gone into the system? Your new home can’t have and one day that will be past into your kids or whoever unless you plan on leaving it to the Australian economy. You may know people in their 70’s still working and paying tax but they would be an exception, it is a fact most don’t and the ones in their 70’s still working would be unlikely to be working full time so paying less in tax.  If they came on a parent visa they still arrived later in life and cannot be compared to someone paying into the system from a young age.  If I understand your post right,  you’ve purchased a house and paid workers to build you an extension, you’ve purchased a car and buy food and the usual things everyone does. You also do some voluntarily work which whilst lovely and important it doesn’t feed into the economy.  So in short compared to a younger person working all their life’s you have not and continue to pay nothing into the economy. Your post confirmed what I said, people on parent visas are vastly overall more cost worthy compared to home grown or 20 something’s that arrive and work for the next 40 years.  

[LindaH27]

10 minutes ago, Karen j said:

This was from the NHS website

If you are moving abroad on a permanent basis, you will no longer be entitled to medical treatment in the UK under normal NHS rules. This is because the NHS is a residence-based healthcare system. Most people will also not be entitled to use a UK-issued EHIC card to access healthcare abroad.

But see this 

In the UK, NHS emergency care and primary care (delivered by GPs, dentists, pharmacists, optometrist, 111 telephone helpline and NHS Direct Wales) is free for all. The UK has a residency based system for secondary care.
This means provision of free NHS non-emergency hospital treatment is based on being ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK, not on your nationality, payment of UK taxes or national insurance contributions, owning a property, being registered with a GP or having an NHS number.

If you are a British citizen, you have automatic right of abode in the UK. If you have been living abroad, you pass the ordinarily residence test on resuming settled residence here and are immediately entitled to free NHS non-emergency hospital care.

[Tulip1]

41 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

You do these things but so will many others that have paid into the system for 40 years prior to that.  The 20 somethings will pay into the system, buy a house and car and will just as likely go on to look after the grandkids and volunteer too.  You say you’ve spent a lot of money in Australia but how much of that has gone into the system? Your new home can’t have and one day that will be past into your kids or whoever unless you plan on leaving it to the Australian economy. You may know people in their 70’s still working and paying tax but they would be an exception, it is a fact most don’t and the ones in their 70’s still working would be unlikely to be working full time so paying less in tax.  If they came on a parent visa they still arrived later in life and cannot be compared to someone paying into the system from a young age.  If I understand your post right,  you’ve purchased a house and paid workers to build you an extension, you’ve purchased a car and buy food and the usual things everyone does. You also do some voluntarily work which whilst lovely and important it doesn’t feed into the economy.  So in short compared to a younger person working all their life’s you have not and continue to pay nothing into the economy. Your post confirmed what I said, people on parent visas are vastly overall more cost worthy compared to home grown or 20 something’s that arrive and work for the next 40 years.  

For what it’s worth, I’m the same as you. I will arrive, buy a property and a car. I will almost certainly volunteer but I know I’m not what the country wants, I will pay little or no tax and may one day require very costly treatment. Compared to a young healthy worker I am a very poor catch.  We are far luckier to have the opportunity to get a parent visa than them have us and we shouldn’t try and justify otherwise 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Tulip1

[ramot]

I suggest If posters want to continue discussing who has payed more or who has payed less and therefore should or shouldn’t be entitled to who knows what in whichever country, then it would be best to start a new thread. It’s a worry when everyone starts arguing with each other as that isn’t really what the parent visa is all about. We all get sidetracked occasionally, but this thread should be about helping and supporting each other.

[Karen j]

Well said Ramot.. it’s easy to get caught up in arguments with all the conflicting information out there. It’s good to share knowledge and opinions but it can get out of hand. 

[Juliet7]

23 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

Compared to a young healthy worker I am a very poor catch.

I applied for a 143 in August 2015 and last August had a hip replacement and may well have the other one in April.  I'm using my private health insurance and self top up for both.  At least I'm getting that out of the way before the next stage of the application.  When I first mentioned to my son in Australia that I would need the operations,  his ironic comment re the visa amused me..'I can't understand why they don't snap you up!'

[SusieRoo]

It’s good to sometime get a little perspective and realise these parent visas are a privilege given to us by the Australian people. However which way you look at it, you can’t escape the fact that most of us are likely to be a burden for future Aussie taxpayers. The only reason parent visas even exist is because Australia is still one of the most civilised societies on the planet. It’s no wonder we Poms get a reputation for being whingers when you read some of the posts on here.

[Rosiejaq]

21 minutes ago, SusieRoo said:

It’s good to sometime get a little perspective and realise these parent visas are a privilege given to us by the Australian people................. The only reason parent visas even exist is because Australia is still one of the most civilised societies on the planet. It’s no wonder we Poms get a reputation for being whingers when you read some of the posts on here.

Maybe we should all practice being positive like the aussies so we’re ready for our new lives!

[LindaH27]

There will always be those who are aware there are some short cuts but can’t afford / aren’t able to make use of them so feel bad about it. I’m applying for 143 which supposedly gives me precedence over 103 /804 applicants.  Other 103 applicants will change to 143 but keep their existing  application date so jump the queue. Others move over on bridging visas, still more will be applying for the new temporary parent visa as soon as its available - and it’s all ok! 

All of us manage the wait in our own way. Some Poms may be whingers but most of us still have a sense of fair play - or fair go which ironically Scott Morrison seems have adopted as a rallying call! 

The question of who pays more,  who shouldn’t get in etc has been raised a few times before and no doubt will raise its head in the future in this forum as people are allowed freedom of speech whether we personally agree with them or not.

I personally am just sticking it out in UK with annual 3 month visits to Australia till I get my visa granted - hopefully.  But that’s just my choice. And yes I get downhearted with the wait at times.  Others make different choices - and we all have the right to do so. 

On another note I believe they are now processing up to 3 July 2015. So there’s some movement even if only minute!! 

[freedy50]

So anyway.  To change from that heated debate.

My wife and I got our 173 visas at the end of Novemeber (and will be coming over to validate them in March before our deadline) and as soon as they were granted we started wuith the 143 application.

Does anybody know how quick it would be to get the 143 seeing how we already have the 173? I believe it could be quicker then applying directly for a 143? I've tried the blank email to Home Affairs but never get a reply.

Edited January 21, 2019 by freedy50

[Catlady2014]

19 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

You do these things but so will many others that have paid into the system for 40 years prior to that.  The 20 somethings will pay into the system, buy a house and car and will just as likely go on to look after the grandkids and volunteer too.  You say you’ve spent a lot of money in Australia but how much of that has gone into the system? Your new home can’t have and one day that will be past into your kids or whoever unless you plan on leaving it to the Australian economy. You may know people in their 70’s still working and paying tax but they would be an exception, it is a fact most don’t and the ones in their 70’s still working would be unlikely to be working full time so paying less in tax.  If they came on a parent visa they still arrived later in life and cannot be compared to someone paying into the system from a young age.  If I understand your post right,  you’ve purchased a house and paid workers to build you an extension, you’ve purchased a car and buy food and the usual things everyone does. You also do some voluntarily work which whilst lovely and important it doesn’t feed into the economy.  So in short compared to a younger person working all their life’s you have not and continue to pay nothing into the economy. Your post confirmed what I said, people on parent visas are vastly overall more cost worthy compared to home grown or 20 something’s that arrive and work for the next 40 years.  

You are quite wrong, I did not buy a house.  And all money spent on goods and services feeds back into the economy, it does not disappear into the ether never to be seen again.  

[Kathss56]

Latest test email dates reply in a new format 

 

[LindaH27]

That’s a bit crafty!! By just putting the month rather than the actual date we can’t see how things are moving  - just that it’s moved to another month! And that could take weeks to move. 

By the way have people seen this 

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/applying-online-or-on-paper/online/how-to-pay

so you can pay online but most have surcharges. I’m assuming you can pay AOS this way. No mention of what to do if applied on paper like most of have - not sure if bank transfer is no longer allowed? 

[Jellybean T]

Thanks Linda, there’s a lot of good helpful information on that link.