The Brand New PIO Parents Visa thread

[Les Avalook]

Hi Les

 

Thanks so much fir explaining that I'm just glad I only have to loan/give offspring the 14,000AU rather than find another hefty sum :arghh:

 

So let me get this exactly right I 'lend' offspring said amount, plus another

150AU to open an account and the interest is paid into that account every 6 months, then if I don't pop my clogs or use the money in the next 10 years I

get it back:jiggy: So does the account have to be in offsprings name? Can she not just use her AU bank account?

 

Hi,

 

The account has to be opened in the Commonwealth bank, that is the bank that has been chosen by the Oz Gov.

 

Even if your son/daughter has already got an account with Commonwealth bank the fee of $150 still has to be paid.:mad:

 

The interest is paid into an account named by the assurer but I am not sure if that account can be in someone else's name.

 

The rate of interest is fixed on set up and at the moment I believe it is about 5% before tax. I understand the rate is fixed for 5 years and then revised for the next 5 years at current rate.

[mr luvpants]

Hi "Les"

 

How are you getting on with your application?

 

JOHN

[PhoebeW]

Hi,

 

The account has to be opened in the Commonwealth bank, that is the bank that has been chosen by the Oz Gov.

 

Even if your son/daughter has already got an account with Commonwealth bank the fee of $150 still has to be paid.:mad:

 

The interest is paid into an account named by the assurer but I am not sure if that account can be in someone else's name.

 

The rate of interest is fixed on set up and at the moment I believe it is about 5% before tax. I understand the rate is fixed for 5 years and then revised for the next 5 years at current rate.

 

 

Hi

 

Once again thankyou Les.

 

I am trying to get everything clear so I can let my daughter and son in law the ins and outs of what is involved at their end. before we start to embark on this journey I am only at the 'reading through the material' stage :arghh:.

 

Phoebe

[PhoebeW]

Hi Les

 

When we did it, my sister in Oz was Mum's Sponsor and one of her two Assurers of Support. Elaine was only working part time because their children were small, so she couldn't provide the AoS by herself because she couldn't prove sufficient in Net Assessable Income. It was decided that Elaine's Aussie hubby Neil would actually provide the AoS because he could overcome the financial hurdle on his own. However to avoid the risk of his Aussie family claiming later that Mum was only able to get her sc 143 visa "because of our beloved Neil," Elaine and I decided that she would become the co-Assurer, jointly with Neil, because the Assurers' liability is joint and several, so we would be able to shut Neil's Aussie family up like clams if any of them should turn nasty at any time.

 

Elaine was scared stiff about the money. She banks with the Commonwealth Bank of Australia anyway. She was worried about so much money passing through her account in one go, to pay for Mum's 2nd Instalment and for Mum's AoS. Elaine was convinced that the ATO would chase her for income tax on the money or that they would try to treat it as a gift, and if so as a chargeable capital gain in her hands.

 

I investigated the ATO website. It said that if a third party gives or lends money to someone in Oz but the person in Oz is going to use that money in order to benefit the third party in some way, then the ATO treat the whole thing as a "non-event" in terms of liability for any sort of tax.

 

Alan Collett of Go Matilda is a Chartered Accountant, so I never ignore anything that he says about money or tax. Alan said that if the visa applicant gives the money for the AoS Bond to the Assurer, technically the $10,000 (solo applicant) or $14,000 (applicant is a couple) then belongs to the Assurer. Apparently it is a gift, technically, but according to the ATO website it is not a taxable gift.

 

The Bond account is in Elaine's sole name because only one of the Assurers has to open the Bond account. Twice a year it pays a miserable pittance in interest. Elaine's sons have their own joint account at the CBA. It is used for payments of Family Tax Benefit etc. Any money that is earmarked "the children" goes into the children's own account. Elaine pays the interest from the Bond out of her own (other) account - her existing account - at the CBA into the children's account.

 

Once the Bond is released, Mum and Elaine intend that the $10,000 will go to Elaine's & Neil's children - Mum's grandsons. Neil and I would never interfere with that intention, so it will stand.

 

All families deal with this in different ways, according to what suits the family concerned. I've merely described what we are doing/have done because our own arrangements happen to be the ones that suit us.

 

We also decided, ages ago, that we will simply pay any tax bills that come our way after Mum's eventual death. Her house in the UK remains in her sole name and it is not mortgaged. Mum has an emotional attachment to it and the rent from it is a useful boost to her income. Mum will be 90 later this year and we have decided that her happiness is more important than tax, so I haven't even investigated what will happen about CGT in the UK when she dies, or Inheritance Tax unless the threshold for that is increased fairly soon. From our own point of view, Mum's happiness matters more, so even though keeping the house is probably not tax-efficient, it satisfies Mum's immense sentimental attachment to the house that she and my late father lived in together, so the tax bill can simply be paid in due course,.

 

Elaine had to pay the CBA $150 to get them to open the Bond account, as you say. She didn't mention any other costs so I assume that there were none.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

 

Hi Gill

 

Once again a great source of information :biggrin:

 

One thing that does worry me is my daughter & hubby get help from Centrelink as hubby is on a low wage and they have 2 small children. Would my daughter paying the $14,000 into another bank account be taken as 'Income' for them:unsure:

 

Also am I reading this right, do we CPV's have to pay the money for the visa to our sponsors for them to pay it to the Australian Government............and would this also intefere with their Centrelink payments........ I'm even more confused now :confused:

 

Phoebe

[Les Avalook]

Hi "Les"

 

How are you getting on with your application?

 

JOHN

 

Hi John,

 

Still sitting in the queue with a CO not likely until December 2010.

Still as the £ is :Randy-git: then it gives it time to recover a bit.

How is/was your trip to Brisbane? Understand it's getting cool out there weather wise.

 

How did the :policeman: look to you?

[Les Avalook]

Hi Gill

 

Once again a great source of information :biggrin:

 

One thing that does worry me is my daughter & hubby get help from Cent relink as hubby is on a low wage and they have 2 small children. Would my daughter paying the $14,000 into another bank account be taken as 'Income' for them:unsure:

 

Also am I reading this right, do we CPV's have to pay the money for the visa to our sponsors for them to pay it to the Australian Government............and would this also intefere with their Centrelink payments........ I'm even more confused now :confused:

 

Phoebe

 

Hi Phoebe,

 

Have you checked that they (if both are sponsors) are earning approximately $40,000 per year between them (last year and evidence of the expectation of this year)?

 

You could make the transfer to them of $14,000 just days before it is taken out of their account so that it would not earn any interest.

 

How you pay for the 2nd Vac payment could be via a bank account you have in Oz already or by pre-loading your UK credit card and sending the details of the card out to Perth when they ask for payment. You would not need to involve the family.

[Linday]

Hi Pankit

 

When you fill in Form 47PA there is a section which asks if you want to cancel any other parent visa and here you need to indicate that you will be cancelling the 103.

[PhoebeW]

Hi Phoebe,

 

Have you checked that they (if both are sponsors) are earning approximately $40,000 per year between them (last year and evidence of the expectation of this year)?

 

You could make the transfer to them of $14,000 just days before it is taken out of their account so that it would not earn any interest.

 

How you pay for the 2nd Vac payment could be via a bank account you have in Oz already or by pre-loading your UK credit card and sending the details of the card out to Perth when they ask for payment. You would not need to involve the family.

 

 

Hi Gill

 

My credit card wouldnt cover the amount for the 2nd VAC, will this mean I have to open an OZ bank account which I could maybe do when I next visited or could I transfer it straight from my UK account:dull: and will my daughter and son in law have to prove their income??

 

Thanks

Phoebe

[Les Avalook]

Hi Gill

 

My credit card wouldnt cover the amount for the 2nd VAC, will this mean I have to open an OZ bank account which I could maybe do when I next visited or could I transfer it straight from my UK account:dull: and will my daughter and son in law have to prove their income??

 

Thanks

Phoebe

 

Most people's credit card limit would not cover a £40,000 payment (mine anyway).:swoon:

 

That is why I said you pre-load it. You pay the money into your credit card account before the payment is due and then when Perth take payment then the amount is covered.

 

You can open an Oz bank account in your name, transfer the money to that account and then get that bank to send a bank draft to Perth in $s. That keeps your daughter out of it.

[PhoebeW]

Most people's credit card limit would not cover a £40,000 payment (mine anyway).:swoon:

 

That is why I said you pre-load it. You pay the money into your credit card account before the payment is due and then when Perth take payment then the amount is covered.

 

You can open an Oz bank account in your name, transfer the money to that account and then get that bank to send a bank draft to Perth in $s. That keeps your daughter out of it.

 

I'm not sure I would know how to 'pre-load' my credit card :arghh:

 

So are you saying I can open an Oz bank account say when we go on holiday next year....so may questions sorry :wideeyed:

 

Phoebe

[Guest cazbeckham]

For your Daughter to Sponsor you for the AOS she would have to prove her income.

 

Re Credit card, when you get your bill in just pay from your bank the extra on to it so that you are in credit on it, then you will have it there to pay the 2nd VAC payment.

 

We did not open an OZ bank account till we got here.

 

Good Luck al of you

[PhoebeW]

For your Daughter to Sponsor you for the AOS she would have to prove her income.

 

Re Credit card, when you get your bill in just pay from your bank the extra on to it so that you are in credit on it, then you will have it there to pay the 2nd VAC payment.

 

We did not open an OZ bank account till we got here.

 

Good Luck al of you

 

Hi Caz

 

Thanks I think I understand now, so for example if I have a £4000 credit card and I owed them £1000 at the end of the month, I would pay the credit card company say £40,000 then I can use my CC to pay the 2nd VAC :twitcy:

Phoebe

[mr luvpants]

Hi John,

 

Still sitting in the queue with a CO not likely until December 2010.

Still as the £ is :Randy-git: then it gives it time to recover a bit.

How is/was your trip to Brisbane? Understand it's getting cool out there weather wise.

 

How did the :policeman: look to you?

 

Brisbane was good. I found it just right temperature wise. I will hear from the police with a yes or no next week.

 

JOHN

[Les Avalook]

Brisbane was good. I found it just right temperature wise. I will hear from the police with a yes or no next week.

 

JOHN

 

Wait till you have been there 2 years and then you might find it cold. So our d-i-l says at the moment.:cool:

 

Hope it goes well for you with the :policeman:.

 

Have your inlaws started their CPVs or are you needed to give the Aos?

[mr luvpants]

We will need to be there 2 years before we can apply. They are now talking about doing 6 months here and 6 months there.

 

JOHN

[Les Avalook]

We will need to be there 2 years before we can apply. They are now talking about doing 6 months here and 6 months there.

 

JOHN

 

Hi John.

 

With guidance from Gollywobbler's research into the 'settled' requirement we applied after our son & d-i-l were in Oz for 16 months. We too had thought we had to wait 2 years.

 

He had just bought his first home having rented for the first year. We collected lots of evidence from their Australian friends and employers that showed they were settled into the Australian way of life (he owned a BBQ:laugh:) and committed to remaining in Australia. We had copies of receipts for cars, furniture, even the dog they had bought and added them all to our application.

 

I have to say at the moment I am not sure if the people who have applied with family who are under the 2 year time slot have now reached a CO stage, but I am not aware of anyone being turned down for not proving their sponsor is settled.

 

Some people are even applying after 12 months 'settled', so who knows where this will go. I think it will soon be just to do with the payment, if you can afford it you are in.:shocked:

[liverpoolloo]

Hello Les, i too have to prove my son is settled when i apply at the end of the year, he hopes to get his residency around end of year aswell. He has his own business, car, house, dog, tax payer, and i will bare in mind to include friends and family to give evidence on how settled he is. Nice to read your post and know i am not on my own. Ann

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi John.

 

With guidance from Gollywobbler's research into the 'settled' requirement we applied after our son & d-i-l were in Oz for 16 months. We too had thought we had to wait 2 years.

 

He had just bought his first home having rented for the first year. We collected lots of evidence from their Australian friends and employers that showed they were settled into the Australian way of life (he owned a BBQ:laugh:) and committed to remaining in Australia. We had copies of receipts for cars, furniture, even the dog they had bought and added them all to our application.

 

I have to say at the moment I am not sure if the people who have applied with family who are under the 2 year time slot have now reached a CO stage, but I am not aware of anyone being turned down for not proving their sponsor is settled.

 

Some people are even applying after 12 months 'settled', so who knows where this will go. I think it will soon be just to do with the payment, if you can afford it you are in.:shocked:

 

Hi Les

 

If the sponsor has lived in Oz for 2 years or more then "policy" says that the only requirement is to say so and prove it.

 

If the sponsor has lived in Oz for less than two years, all that is needed is for one to defeat "policy" by demonstrating that the sponsor is "settled."

 

The legislation does not define the term "settled." In that situation, one is supposed to consult the Maquarie Dictionary in order to decide what the term means, apparently.

 

(Is this some sort of a black joke? Nah. It is just the way that the Law works.)

 

If the Maquarie Dictionary were available on-line and free, which it should be but isn't, I would gladly consult the wretched thing in order to discover whether "settled" - which is an Anglo Saxon word - means something different in Strine from the meaning supplied by the Oxford English Dictionary instead, which is the one that the Courts in E&W use.

 

Some other geezer consulted the Maquarie Dictionary (the Judge in the Naiker case.) Most helpfully, he trotted out the meaning and it is now recorded for posterity. Oddly enough, the word has exactly the same meaning in the OED - which makes me suspect a bit of plagiarism here and there........

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[sandch]

Hello Les, i too have to prove my son is settled when i apply at the end of the year, he hopes to get his residency around end of year aswell. He has his own business, car, house, dog, tax payer, and i will bare in mind to include friends and family to give evidence on how settled he is. Nice to read your post and know i am not on my own. Ann

 

Forget the rest, the dog is a complete clincher. Dog = Settled in the official dictionary. The dog can also do a stat dec to confirm.

 

You can tell it's Friday.

:twitcy:

[Les Avalook]

Forget the rest, the dog is a complete clincher. Dog = Settled in the official dictionary. The dog can also do a stat dec to confirm.

 

You can tell it's Friday.

:twitcy:

 

I think in Oz a vet will vie with a dentist for charges that will keep their clients paw.:wacko:

 

Thank God it's Friday.:v_SPIN:

[PhoebeW]

Hi

 

When looking through the CPV 143 info:arghh:...........I've come across a form 40 that child/children have to complete.

 

Is it the child sponsor in Oz that has to complete this? Would my son (who would be left in UK) also have to complete one...........:wideeyed:

 

Thanks

Phoebe

[Guest Mary Cockerill]

Hi Phoebe. Your child in Australia is the one that will complete the form 40. All you need for your son that is in the UK is his full birth certificate. Your son in Australia will provide his full birth certificate, evidence of his Australian permanent resident status or citizenship and evidence of employment. I hope that helps. Regards.

[PhoebeW]

Hi Phoebe. Your child in Australia is the one that will complete the form 40. All you need for your son that is in the UK is his full birth certificate. Your son in Australia will provide his full birth certificate, evidence of his Australian permanent resident status or citizenship and evidence of employment. I hope that helps. Regards.

 

Hi Mary

 

It certainly does help. Thankypu so much :biggrin:

 

Phoebe

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill

 

Once again a great source of information :biggrin:

 

One thing that does worry me is my daughter & hubby get help from Centrelink as hubby is on a low wage and they have 2 small children. Would my daughter paying the $14,000 into another bank account be taken as 'Income' for them:unsure:

 

Also am I reading this right, do we CPV's have to pay the money for the visa to our sponsors for them to pay it to the Australian Government............and would this also intefere with their Centrelink payments........ I'm even more confused now :confused:

 

Phoebe

 

Hi Phoebe

 

One thing that does worry me is my daughter & hubby get help from Centrelink as hubby is on a low wage and they have 2 small children.

 

There is a potential problem, though there is not necessarily an actual problem.

 

The first step is to work out what somebody's Net Assessable income has to be if the person(s) concerned wanted to provide an Assurance of Support today.

 

The easy way to do this is to see what Mark Webster says on the Acacia Immigration website:

 

Assurance of Support (AOS) Bond

 

Mark Webster has a Maths degree, I believe, and the cat's maths is better than my maths in any case, so I believe that one should start with what Mr Webster says.

 

The AoS page on the Acacia website is now 2.5 years out of date, though! He talks about 2 years' tax returns and so on. That is the "old idea" and it is now out of date. The present Minister simplified the AoS system and reduced the amount of Net Assessable Income required by the Assurer(s) on 1st January 2008:

 

Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

 

You can cross-reference the discrepancy between Mark Webster's "old formula" and Alan Collett's "current formula" by consulting the Social Security Guide, which is published and is regularly updated by the Aussie Government:

 

9.4 Assurance of Support Scheme

 

Phoning Centrelink to ask them what the income ought to be is a pointless waste of time. My sister and I phoned them twice each. We were given four different answers in the four phone calls and none of Centrelink's guessed-at answers proved to be correct in the end. The truth is that their staff don't know how to do the calculation manually. They rely on a prospective Assurer trotting in to see them for the AoS Interview. The staff then take the prospective Assurer's proven income documents and enter the data into the Centrelink computer. The computer then tells the AoS Officer at Centrelink whether the proposed income is enough or whether it is too low. The upshot is that the staff depend on the computer and have no idea how to do the sums by themselves.

 

That said, I can't do the sums by myself either!

 

If you work it out according to what Alan and the Social Security Guide both say, you get a lower income figure for the prospective Assurer than Mark Webster's out of date computation uses. So if you then use the figure provided by Mr Webster, even though it is now too high, with a bit of luck nobody will get a nasty fright further on down the line.

 

I know that my own approach is rough and ready, but it is also safe, which is the important thing, and my name is not Lobachevsky so we just have to live with my lack of maths!

 

*************************************************************************

 

You say that your s-i-l is on a low income and that he has two small children. I assume that your daughter either doesn't have a job because she looks after the children, or that she only works part time if she does have a job.

 

Families on low incomes can get help from Centrelink, as you say. One of the ways they can get help is via Family Tax Benefit:

 

Site A to Z - F

 

Another way that some people can get help is via Child Care Benefit or Child Support or something:

 

Site A to Z - C

 

I haven't a clue how these Aussie Benefits work and I don't understand the details concerning children in the UK either since I've never had any children so I've never needed to worry about the claims that are possible if a child is involved.

 

I think that it is only possible for Centrelink to say that they will not allow somebody to act as an Assurer if the prospective Assurer is on New Start Allowance, which I think is the equivalent of Job Seeker's Allowance in the UK. Receipt of Disability Support Pension inn Oz (called Disability Living Allowance in the UK) might be a barrier but I don't see why it should be, so I don't know about DSP. Receipt of Sickness Allowance might be a barrier as well, but I am not sure. That is like Incapacity Benefit in the UK, I think.

 

Personally, if I were directly involved, I would ask your daughter to go and see somebody at her local Centrelink office. It is too easy for them to paint their nails whilst speaking to you on the phone. If you go in there, they have to put the nail polish away and focus on you. I think it is too complicated to try to work it out from the UK when you know nothing about the Tax & Benefits systems in Oz.

 

Just warn your daughter to be careful with the AoS staff. During one of my two phone calls to Centrelink's AoS HQ (in Tasmania) I pressed Option 3 or whatever it was and ended up talking to a Greek woman who asked whether I could speak Greek. It would be much easier for her if I could speak Greek, so she said. I had a fit and demanded her Manager, who turned out to be called Sheherezade according to the Greek woman. I thought, "Dear God! First the Greeks and now the Bedouins. This Scheherezade woman had better not ask me whether I can speak Arabic because I really will become very angry if that happens." As it turned out, Sheherezade spoke fluent English with an Aussie accent, so all was well. Her Maths was inaccurate but she was very nice. Just as with the Benefits people in the UK, the customer has to be grateful for small mercies, I reckon!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Les Avalook]

Hi

 

When looking through the CPV 143 info:arghh:...........I've come across a form 40 that child/children have to complete.

 

Is it the child sponsor in Oz that has to complete this? Would my son (who would be left in UK) also have to complete one...........:wideeyed:

 

Thanks

Phoebe

 

Hi Phoebe, you seem to be building up a picture of what you require for the CPV 143 but from your posts I am not sure if you have stated your sponsors earn over $40,000 per year for the last tax year and expected to earn that amount this tax year.

 

If that is not the case you may have to rethink your plans.

 

I base $40k on someone sponsoring 2 parents and having 2 children and in very round figurers, if it is $37,000 per year or less you need more sponsors.