Stellathedog Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Sorry Gollywobbler, your post has been a bit hijacked. Back onto the thread............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlaut Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 When will people realise that the Australian government are not trying to punish potential migrants, they are trying to ensure that Australia's interests are looked after first and that potential migrants are brought here for the right reasons. I don't see any significant difficulties with any changes at all UNLESS they are made - retrospectively to existing migrants, - suddenly with no transitional period for future applicants who have already invested money, for example, in Aus skill assessment, IELTS etc.. The whole 2009 year we've seen no compassion for migrants. We've been pushed around with the retrospective changes many times and our hopes and expectations have been almost devastated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi McKlaut I completely agree with you and with Pippa1. I don't believe that the changes in 2009 - which have done immense harm to Australia's reputation as a bunch of coves who can be trusted, fair dinkum and the rest of the folklore - have anything to do with Australia's economy. I think the whole thing is driven by the present Minister's ideology, which in turn is driven by the trades unions when the latter were the "jesuits" and he was the child with a mental age of five, in effect. They are the people he gets his ideas from and they want to force pay for their members upwards via scarcity. A foolish Government buys into that sort of blackmail because it is the short cut to rampant inflation. I think that Krudd's Government is foolish enough to fall into the trap. But we shall see.... Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshtone Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi Gill Been busy all day so this is the first chance I have got to give my interpretation about these changes on 01 January. These changes mainly affect the on-shore students that are studying trades. All trades graduates will be forced through the subclass 485, 18 month temporary visa. To apply for the 885/886 permanent visa, they will need an APPROVED TRA assessment dated on or after 01 January 2010 BEFORE they can make a valid application. This effectively renders all previous TRA assessments void for the 885/886 visa. Any TRA assessments from 01 January 2010 will (I think) incorporate the "job ready Test" - I suspect that 12 months experience will be a criterion but I am just guessing. For Offshore trades applicants, the change is that they must have 12 months skilled experience in their trade in the previous 24 months - It is currently 12 months in ANY SOL occupation - so from January, even experience in a closely related trade will not be acceptable unless it can be argued that the duties of the trades are so similar that, for example, the TRA recognised Fitter, who has been working as a Metal Machinist for the past 2 years, spends 20 hours per week or more carrying out the duties of a Fitter. The drive for these particular changes are the realisation that somebody who does a 12 month trade course in Australia, padded out with another related 12 month course plus 900 hours of experience, does not a tradesperson make. Add to this the shonky courses where attendance is questionable and 900 hours experience letters are forged, the TRA approvals for many graduates are meaningless. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Thankyou Tony! It is good to see some commonsense come into the thread though a few earlier such posts had been smothered with hyperbole. This is about nothing other than attempting to close loopholes and ensure the immigration program delivers people with skills matching Australia's requirements. Gill You may recall some threads/posts where there has been mention of people coming to Australia and then looking for work outside of area of skill that applied on. Yes, that is an issue that has a number of fronts to it. I could dissect a few of the statements throughout this thread and no doubt win the reputation of having been sacked as DIAC spokesman only to be appointed to the Minister's office [not such a bad place it is too]. But there have already been enough Walking Eagles attempting to fly about this thread. They know who they are as do the Turkeys and the soaring eagles on wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBone Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hello JayBone At 7.07pm today you told us in this thread: However at 5.15pm today you told Pommymarty as follows: Why do you believe that Pommymarty will find it easy to do that which - two hours later - you say cannot be done in Australia, please? Curious Gill Gill, Just curious, I see lots of people have thanked you for your message, but as far as i can see it didnt really have any context. Me saying to someone that they should apply for a job because its directly related to their current trade and previous experience, is by no means contradictory to what i said later on. He has a trade, that he is employed to do now. My later email simply agreed with the announcement that trades people will need to have recent and relevant experience, or they may struggle to find work. How are these two things i wrote contradictory? Curious? J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Curious? Walking Eagles JB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest On the coast Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I completed a 2yr hairdressing course over a yr ago,for the last yr been employed full time in a salon.I applied for PR 4 weeks ago ,supplied all pay slips for last yr to IMMI to gain extra work experience points.I'am already here ,and employed in the trade.How are these changes going to affect all the people like myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Lombard Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hi Gill, Tony, Tony I agree that it's directed towards onshore graduates, and my belief is that it's sloppy drafting, no more. The very well advertised plan was always to insist that onshore graduates obtain relevant work experience in certain occupations, and the thinking with respect to subclass 175 and 176 applications would simply have been to ensure there was no easy work around for onshore graduates to lodge offshore applications. If there is collateral damage from the drafting which will "weed out tradies" I would expect that to be fixed. Cheers, George Lombard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi George, Hi Tony Thank you both very much indeed for your input on this thread. My mantra about sloppy parliamentary drafting has not changed over the years. Bill Gates is to blame for the machines on everyone's desks. With parliamentary draftsmen the machines should be confiscated and replaced with a candle, a sheet of parchment and a quill pen - to force them to think about what they want to say before they can spout any illogical, unintentional drivel. At the moment the instrument seems to me to catch a fair few prospective offshore applicants as well as onshore applicants who are also caught by the new Vetassess rules. Apparently Orion Training in Brisbane are saying that they are not sure whether their AQF Diplomas will still be acceptable to Vetassess and DIAC after the end of 2009. Let us take Office Manager and Project or Program Administrator as examples, if I may. As far as I know it is not possible to study for an AQF Diploma which is specific to either occupation and if mickey mouse courses and qualifications start springing up it will lead to very young adults being stereotyped and pigeon holed much earlier in their working lives than could ever be sensible. Another example from the SOL is the occupation called Funeral Director. I'm 100% sure that one cannot go to College to get a specific NVQ4 or HND qualification in this subject in the UK and I'd be very surprised if it is possible in Australia either. In the UK a guy called Howard Hodgson made a mint out of buying up independent Funeral Director companies about 20 years ago and turning them into a chain. I know Howard's brother Russell so I asked him how his brother had hit upon the idea? Russell said that they come from a long line of cabinet makers and that for centuries cabinet makers also made coffins. He said that they also got the task of preparing the body for viewing and burial so they learned the skills of embalming etc as well. The occupation was already in the family and had been so for several generations. It was not a case of Howard trawling the In Memoriam pages of the newspapers idly and suddenly coming up with a whizzo idea, said Russell. One of our members is in a predicament with Funeral Director at present. When he lived in Scotland he worked as a Funeral Director's Assistant/Mortuary Assistant. He was told that this would not be enough for a GSM visa so he is now in Australia studying something else. However he has a regular job for 20 hours a week, working as a Funeral Director's Assistant/Mortuary Assistant for a large, well known chain of Funeral Directors in Australia. As he remarked, Mortuary Assistant especially is not the sort of job which "just anybody" could do. His employers want him to work full time and they are willing to sponsor him for a visa but the RMAs retained by the company say that an employer sponsored visa would not be possible. The guy is tearing his hair out because it is obviously the occupation which suits him for the rest of his working life. If a College sets up a mickey mouse course in Funeral Direction and Mortuary Skills, loads of International Students would do it solely for the sake of trying to obtain PR in Australia in due course. Whether they are temperamentally suitable for the job would become irrelevant when hard cash is changing hands. In what way would this be beneficial to Australian society? Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I completed a 2yr hairdressing course over a yr ago,for the last yr been employed full time in a salon.I applied for PR 4 weeks ago ,supplied all pay slips for last yr to IMMI to gain extra work experience points.I'am already here ,and employed in the trade.How are these changes going to affect all the people like myself. Hi there The current Instrument does not seem to affect you since you have already submitted your visa application. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi All Visa Bureau have now published an article about the impending changes which are the subject of this thread, thank goodness: New legislation regarding Australian skilled migration The explanatory statement is here: http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/199121D669658226CA25768D0007245F/$file/F2009L04559.pdf I recommend that the Minister makes immediate enquiries to discover whether anybody from the IT team responsible for the DIAC website has plans to be at work on New Year's Day 2010 because if not he is going to be stymied in trying to announce this new stuff to his adoring public, it seems to me. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr luvpants Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 So Gill, are you saying that should be it for this year regarding changes? JOHN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi Gill God this is all frustrating especially as you just want to enjoy christmas ! We have applied and confirmed by DIAC a 175 sc We are awaiting WA SS to convert. Sophie my other half has passed TRA as a hairdresser so i think we can agree that we are in the system. My concern is the points and if the job comes off MODL. We currently have 120 and need 120 for a 175. If we get SS we only need 100 and would also have an increased total of 130 if they calculate points when application looked at rather than when lodged. In your experience do you think a surplus points tally of 30 is enough should the points tally change ? thanks Shane Hi Shane I have no relevant experience. I am an observer, not a migration agent. The legislative instrument being discussed in this thread does not touch on the points. In another thread a few weeks ago I discovered from George Lombard that if they want to say that Hairdesser, for instance, is only worth 40 points then they would have to alter the SOL, which would involve a full parliamentary process in order to obtain Parliament's permission to alter the statute underpinning the SOL. George said that word would be out if something like this were in the air. He is in Sydney with his ear firmly pinned to the ground so I am sure George is right. With regard to MODL points if the occupation comes off the MODL between the time of application and the time of eventual decision, I understand (again from George) that specific legislation was passed some time ago which protects the visa applicant's MODL points in a situation like yours. WA are known to disapprove mightily of the 23rd September changes. According to David Wilden when he and I chatted about it, WA are wielding the cosh as hard as they can because they know they will soon have a massive demand for new workers and they believe that an influx of migrants from overseas will be the only way to fulfil the demand. DW said that by comparison, NSW are not interested in the effects of the 23rd September changes because they do not affect what NSW were already doing. According to DW, Immigration policy cannot be driven by WA's needs alone. Be that as it may be, I think WA are a ruddy good ally for the applicants caught up in this fiasco. I think the Minister is on the wrong track in trying to make radical changes to the whole structure of Immi to Oz for the future via making piecemeal changes to the existing legislation as and when the whim suddenly takes him. He is destroying Australia's international credibility by so doing and he is advertising the fact that his Government cannot be trusted to keep its word about Immi. If they would renege on the Immigration bargain, what else would they renege on as well? If the Rudd Government wants to alter the entire basis of Immigration to Oz, it is their prerogative to do so - assuming that they manage to stay in office for long enough to make their desires possible. However they should do it via a properly thought out and implemented brand new system. Kevin Andrews managed to do that in 2007 and the same Top Team are still running DIAC so the expertise & experience needed to do it again are still there. However DIAC have no real experience of this sort of messy, piecemeal tinkering around and I think that their lack of relevant experience is beginning to burn like a bushfire. Added to this, their current Minister has no background in the Immi portfolio. He demands instant change and then wonders what to do once he has been given his own way and it has backfired on him - which was the result of his Bright Ideas in December 2008 and March 2009. He needs to be handcuffed to his desk before he can cause any more trouble imho because the man is a loose cannon with this particular portfolio, I believe. If I were Krudd, Evans would become the Minister for Refugees and Asylum Seekers only, to keep him out of the way and to make him expendable in the forthcoming General Election. Going back to your original question, it sounds to me as if there is vague talk about possibly altering the points test as a means of reducing the demand for GSM visas (and possibly to weed some existing applicants out) but the wind does not seem to be coming from this direction at present. I think your best bet is to sit tight and await your approval from WA. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kire Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Probably, it was published earlier, but this interview shows Mr. Evans's attitude to the immigration and to humans particularly: Immigration Minister responds to backlog concerns - The National Interest - 13 November 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Probably, it was published earlier, but this interview shows Mr. Evans's attitude to the immigration and to humans particularly: Immigration Minister responds to backlog concerns - The National Interest - 13 November 2009 Hi Kire I agree. When I clicked on your link I also found this article by Mark Webster which I had not seen before: Skilled Applicants in Limbo - 10 Serious Consequences of DIAC's Go Slow Policy It is recommended reading, in my view. Mark Webster was interviewed by Peter Mares on 30th October 2009, a fortnight before the interview with the Minister. Above all though, I entirely agree with Mark Webster that if the GSM program is broken, the only viable solution is a proper repair. The current "solution" is the equivalent of tacking bits of old, used tyres to the outside of a clapped out tyre and calling this lash-up "a remoulded tyre" when it is plainly nothing more than an unroadworthy deathtrap which should not be allowed onto a public highway. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floater Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I have just heard from David Wilden who informs me that my appication will be finalised by end of Jan. I asked him if there are any changes that would affect my application in Jan, his respose was: At this stage there is nothing concrete for January that should impact on your application so I am fairly confident your application will proceed as outlined below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlaut Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 If I were Krudd, Evans would become the Minister for Refugees and Asylum Seekers only, to keep him out of the way and to make him expendable in the forthcoming General Election. Gill .. and soon after taking his position he would introduce Critical Need List (CNL) for asylum seekers who want to be pocessed faster than others, family or state sponsored and so on. And mix it retrospectively evry 3 month. You made me laughing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlaut Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I have just heard from David Wilden who informs me that my appication will be finalised by end of Jan. I asked him if there are any changes that would affect my application in Jan, his respose was: At this stage there is nothing concrete for January that should impact on your application so I am fairly confident your application will proceed as outlined below. Sorry cannot find you case details. Can you post it here or via PM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floater Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 No worries OCCUPATION: Graphic Pre-press Operator Priority No. 5 DATE OF 175 VISA APPLICATION: 12/08/08 DATE SS RECD: 29/07/09 DATE MEDS & PC'S UPLOADED: 1st Meds Finalised 12/11/08 ADDITIONAL INFO: CO 13/08/09. 2nd Meds and PPC Requested - Finalised 30/11/09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charw Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 .. and soon after taking his position he would introduce Critical Need List (CNL) for asylum seekers who want to be pocessed faster than others, family or state sponsored and so on. And mix it retrospectively evry 3 month. You made me laughing!!! Funny Australia :biglaugh::biglaugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andy crawley Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 should"nt this make us all think!! of what a sham they have made of all this... whats the rest of the system like..... AND WE ALL WHAT TO LIVE THERE!!!! are we mad?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Violet S Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi floater, Thanks for sharing your info. Do you think David Wilden will entertain applicants from other countries besides UK? Thanks. Violet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floater Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi Violet, I'm not sure that David will be able to help you. He is the Regional Director for Europe. What we need is more people like him to step up to the mark and supply hard facts to people who feel they are stuck in limbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rachbarlow Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I have just had a quick scan of this thread and to be honest I am sick of this whole process. Thousands of $$$$$'S, TRA changes, messed out on a list off a list on a list, priority, then not priority, WA SS 6 weeks, 19 weeks STILL waiting..........more changes. I was going to OZ for a better life, but am getting mighty peed and totally stressed in the process, it will be amazing if I get there alive!!! :frown: Hell yes they have it all wrapped up tight, unlike here where it is a free for all, and get given everything if you have nothing, but come on there are totally taking the p**s now. Hopefully these changes and any others in the pipeline that the DIAC wish to think up over their Christmas eggnog, will not affect us who already have applications acknowledged, but who knows anything anymore. The DIAC are a rule to themselves and could not care less about 'people'. :nah:They are happy ching chinging the $$$$$$ for an application when they are not even being processed. I wish I had looked at NZ instead. If I wasn't so far into this shambolic mess and spent so much money I would. I just hope that when we get there it is ALL worth it. Barh humbug DIAC!!! But happy Christmas to all on PIO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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