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Guest joelle

Just got engaged: Defacto or prospective marriage visa?!

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Guest joelle

Hi,

 

I'm new to PIO, but have been looking everywhere to try and get this question answered (I think I might as well go insane!)

 

First a bit about our situation; My partner and I were all set to apply for the defacto visa (He's Australia, I'm from the UK) we started going out in August, Moved in together in October at a Pub we were working at - we have letter of confirmation from the boss but we weren't paying rent as he was Deputy Manager and got free accomodation as a priviledge, se up joint bank accounts in Dec and booked our flights together to fly to Oz in Feb, we spent 10 days in Thailant holidaying and then moved over. For the first 5 months we rented a room from his brother (I've got rent receipts from a rent book as evidence), his brother bought a property in July and since then we have taken over the lease (Joint names). We have a joint bank account here in oz.

 

 

So as evidence I have;

 

  • A photobook from Sept 2008 - Nov 2009 (90 photos)
  • Letters from my mum and friends
  • Emails from Friends and grandmother
  • cards from friends and family (Joint leaving cards, birthday cards, thank-you cards, easter cards)
  • Joint wedding/engaement invitations
  • Statements from friends and family (both UK and Oz)
  • Our rent agreement and receipts
  • Health check & Police check
  • FLight tickets to thailand, oz and then on hols to airlie beach
  • Receipts from accomodation when we have had weekends away
  • Bank Statements
  • Statutory declarations (Form 888)
  • 47sp and 40sp
  • I'm trying to get back dated phone bills..

I can't believe how stressful it is! To make matters worse we've just got engaged (and although we were initially thrilled we didn't realise the implications of this on our application)

 

Does anyone know if you are still able to able for the defacto visa if you are engaed or do you have to apply for the prospective marriage visa? I've looked into it and if you get the prospective marriage visa you usually have to get married in 9months. I can't organise a wedding in 9months! Not only that but I want to enjoy the process and spend time deliberating over flowers and cake and shoes! I don't want some botch job wedding that I have to quickly organise!

 

Sorry if that sounds really selfish but I've always imagined a fairytale wedding, I have my prince and I want everything to be perfect.

 

Please can someone help explain our options or provide any advice on what else we can provide with our visas to make them water tight.

 

If we arrange an appointment at the visa office and take all of our evidence in, do they say yes or no then or do they just give you advice on what else you need or should include?

 

Sorry for the HUGE post... but I did warn you at the top 'I'm going out of my mind!'

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Guest wanderer

A PMV is for when you're outside of Australia.

If you're here already, getting engaged will not detract from your support for a partner visa but just add to it.

 

Sounds to me that you have a lot of relevant evidence and could be OK.

I'd suggest that you just right up your relationship as a clear time line of events in a dot point list, using that as a kind of index and even look at individual bank accounts statements prior to your joint bank account and identify individual payments that have anything to do with the relationship.

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Guest joelle

Really? thats a relief... thanks for getting back to me so soon. It's such a nightmare! Trying to get all the evidence from home is proving tough as I'm usually asleep during office hours, but we'll persevere!

 

Has anyone else applied for a defacto visa whilst they are engaged?

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Hi Joelle,

Congratulations on your engagement :smile: I'd say the choice is entirely up to you but if you're already here then there's no harm in carrying on with your de facto application as far as I know, however, it is worth checking through your evidence to make sure you have covered all 12 months needed to qualify for that. If you don't then you're likely to be better off going for the PMV instead.

 

Having said that, as you are already here, if you already have your wedding plans in place and you plan to marry a.s.a.p. then you might consider applying as a married couple although you will need to supply the official marriage certificate as proof.

 

Best of luck :hug:


“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff.”

― Carl Sagan, Cosmos

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Guest joelle

Hi Happy Lass,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

We started a relationship in Sept, but only have letters from parents, employers, friends and family to collaborate that, as well as photo's... is that enough?

 

Is there anything else we could use as evidence if we weren't paying rent (we have a letter from our employer to confirm we were living together) and didn't set up a joint bank account until Dec 2008?

 

I don't have any letters with my name at this address as we had already decided to move to Oz and wanted my family to redirect mail, rather than it getting lost/not forwarded at our old address?

 

Would bank statements suffice, if I highlighted payments made at Tesco's or Asda (Supermarkets for food shop)? We also didn't have any utility bills as all this was paid for by the company!

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Hi Joelle,

You can ask your friends and family to mention that the date that you moved in together and began living as a couple in their Stat Decs.

 

Other things you can include as evidence of living together are things such as invoices for online orders, letters re. medicare if you have a reciprocal medicare care, prescriptions with your name and our address on etc. We also included vet bills for our cats as well as all the usual stuff like joint bank statements and utility bills.

 

We applied for our visa after we married and didn't need to provide the exactly the same volume of evidence that de facto couple must produce so if I were you I'd have a chat with an RMA if I were you just to be sure you have enough evidence to make a successful application.

 

Best of luck :hug:


“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff.”

― Carl Sagan, Cosmos

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Guest joelle

Thanks for all that!

 

Just one more question (I promise!)

 

My WHV expires on 12th Feb 2010... when is the latest you would advise me to apply, obviously the later we leave it the more chance we will have as we only set up joint bank account beginning of Dec so paper trail starts then.

 

Approx how long does it take? (I know it differs but do they guarantee you will hear back within a certain period?)

 

Will I have to leave the country on the 12th Feb if my Visa hasn't been approved by then?

 

If I don't have to leave, will I still be able to work at my current job?

 

Thanks and sorry that turned out to be 4!

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I haven't had a WHV but do check to make sure that you haven't got a condition such as an 8503 'no further stay' attached to it before you apply. If you have, you won't be able to apply whilst you are in Australia on your current WHV. If you haven't, then I would double-check with the DIAC and if they concur, apply as soon as you are ready.

 

Assuming you are allowed to lodge onshore, the length of time it takes can vary greatly depending upon where you go, whether your application is complete and you have supplied everything they need to make a decision etc. You can expect it to take anything from that day up to 6-9 months! The good news is that if you are allowed to lodge your application for the visa whilst you are here, you will be transferred onto a Bridging Visa when your WHV expires and that will allow you to remain in Australia until you get a decision. I don't know how that would affect your current employment but in general a Bridging Visa comes with the same terms and conditions as the visa you had when you applied for another type so I would have thought you would be able to continue on as you are. That said, I'm not an expert and if you want to be sure, I would speak to one if I were you :smile:

 

Best of luck and do let us know how you get on :hug:


“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff.”

― Carl Sagan, Cosmos

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Guest wanderer

The WHV would be most unlikely to have a nfs 8503 condition on it for there's the option of getting a second WHV and it has been fairly common for people on WHVs to get other visas.

More likely a tourist visa that has a 8503.

 

DIAC will not like you applying the day before your WHV expires, that's for sure but if you do it a couple of weeks ahead you should be OK and if you did have all your documentation well compiled [i'll link another thread of relevance in a moment], it is not beyond possibility of [if you ring mid January re an appointment to submit your application] you being advised to attend such and such a date for an interview [with sponsor] and you could find a visa is issued quite quickly.

 

If not before your WHV expires, it should be that a bridging visa will take effect on the date of WHV expiry.

A bridging visa normally allows you to be doing what your previous visa allowed you to do, but ask at the interview for I've also heard of people on a WHV filling in a form so they can continue working.

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Guest wanderer

Re the link Joelle,

Poster mpur030 has just had advice [luckily in one way before the application] re more time needed to show the relationship and just so you do not run into that scenario, my association with a couple of people looking closely at their documentation is as in the quote

Hi mpur030,

Sorry about your hearing but if you got to speak with a reasonable DIAC person at least that was better than having paid an application fee only to lose it.

 

I think that it could depend on who looks at a case for with the Family visas there is a bit more interpretation room and I even wonder whether how tough the line is does vary from onshore to offshore.

Presentation is also something of a factor.

 

Below is a post of mine from another thread where I advised re a couple of real life examples of people applying overseas, the first had actually also had advice from a DIAC person overseas [sometimes they're locals employed by DIAC] more or less to say that she didn't measure up and so on coming to a site with a query, it was suggested that she ought to more diligently analyse and document per what the person in the second example was doing.

The second person after advice spent a lot of time/effort in carefully documenting her relationship to show it detailed in a time line arrangement, supported with bank statements and other appropriate documentation

The first on doing the same actually got her visa about a month later and so has the person in the second example, though it took a bit longer.

Quote:

Quote:

De facto onshore with little evidence - any chance?

Hi,

 

I'm currently onshore and am looking to apply for my de facto visa. I've been with my boyfriend for almost 3 years. We've lived togehter for about 2,5 years. But in a shared house in London as well with his parents here in Sydney. Basically we have very little evidence to prove that we have lived together. A few bills, maybe 3, and a lease contract. we have another lease here in Sydney now. I went back to the UK for 5 months this year to try and find a better job as my WHV made it harder to get any good jobs here in Sydney. But I'm back now as it was even harder getting a good job in London... Basically, am I wasting my money applying for a de facto visa? We have som eveidence but not much. We also travelled for 6 months trhough Asia and shared our money there, but again, not much eveidence. Would it be easier to go to NZ perhaps and apply for a fiencee visa? We've handed in our notice of intention to get married as well.....

 

Very long message.....sorry just really confused. Should I go to an agent? Any recommendations in Sydney?

Whilst good agents can give you good advice, you'll need to have a detailed outline of your relationship as it stands for even the best agent to be able to make an assessment.

 

The following is an extract of an earlier post where I detailed a couple of real life recent scenarios not all that different to your situation.

 

Quote:

Have a read of Partner Visa: Offshore Temporary and Permanent (Subclasses 309 and 100) and particularly Australian Immigration Fact Sheet 35. One-Year Relationship Requirement and more so an example they give.

 

Quote:

My job in Australia does not allow me to travel to my partner's country to live there for extended periods. We have been in a relationship for 12 months but lived together for only eight months. Will I be eligible to sponsor my partner to Australia?

You may be eligible. It is recognised that it is possible for the parties to be physically apart for periods of time, due to work or travel commitments, yet committed to a shared life.

In assessing a relationship, a number of factors other than periods of physical cohabitation are taken into account.

 

I could say, also read Evidence of Dependency and you should

 

But do not stop there and read the whole visa chapter particularly all of the "eligibility" and "applying for this visa" sections, the latter having a Checklist, an absolute must to be used and the Booklet #1 is handy too.

 

A real life example for you:

 

Quote:

Im a canadian citizin and my partner is from australia. We have been together for 3 years and living together the whole time. We never got joint bank accounts or became eachother beneficiaries because we didnt think it was necessary. We applied for our Defacto spouse visa at the end of August. We got a letter back from our CO saying we hadn't provided enough evidence. We have proof of living in Melbourne for 1 year but only had 1 bill in both our names. She knows we have been together for a long time but just wants more evidence that we are truely commited and have entrusted our finacial assets with eachother. A year ago we didnt think we would ever need to do this and know we need it and dont have it. My partners work visa is running out for Canada and we don't have many options. We dont want to get married for a visa, our CO said we could change our application if we got married. So iff anyone has any advice or has been in a similar situation I would love to hear your stories, as this is really stressing me out.

A little different, different country but just a month ago and with a nudge to examine bank accounts etc. and put together a time sequence report, visa has now been granted.

Another [a bit more travelling in all senses]

 

Quote:

yet ANOTHER defacto question....

So I have read what other people have said and apparently I am not the only one having trouble prooving that we have lived together for over a year.

 

We have relativly substantial evidence otherwise

 

-we can itemise bank statements to show that we paid for bills, food, outings etc together

-we have at least 7 stat decs from aussies including ALL my bf's family members

-evidence of travel (him to my family's home in the us for three months, the two of us and his mother traveling in australia)

-evidence that we have worked together (he helped me get my honours project at his company)

-phone bills showing that i called him everyday that we were apart

-pictures, e-mails, wedding thank you card

-we just got a joint bank account

-evidence that he intended to move with me to canada, but since we couldnt get jobs, we are hoping to go back to oz together...

 

Our own stat decs will explain a lot about our sitation--we have know each other for five years at this stage and have lived together for four years, 1 and a half of which we were officially together.

 

Problem with that is--his name wasnt on the lease agreement until the very end, his name is only on one bill, along with a former housemates....

 

We can both show correspondence going to that same address, and we can both show in bank statements that we were paying rent and bills together--hell, MY NAME wasnt even on any of the bills.....it is on the lease agreement though.....

 

We do have compassionate reasons and explanations as to why this happened (never got his name on the lease as when he first moved in we didnt know how long he would be staying then we unfortunatly just left it, try as i might to change the names on the bills, for some reason it kept going back to the original name on the invoices....we were both on the "safe list" though, does that help if we can get it on paper?!)

 

What i am asking is, does no one get in unless you can show a lease agreement and shared bills?!

 

Has anyone managed to show that they have been together for over a year without these documents?

 

Oh yeah, I'm Canadian and i will be applying from the USA.

And about five months from that to interview and visa on the way [roughly half the time getting data organised]

 

No guarantees, but

The model for both being

Honesty, Commitment and Documentation ain't always under the one roof

and DIAC know that too.

The focus on both those applications was detailing all aspects of their relationship, examining separate bank accounts to identify expenses relating to both or the other partner and essentially producing a chronicle of their lives together.

Other applicants have also been successful with the same approach and none have used agents, not to say that agents cannot help but you need to put in the hard yards to construct a solid description of your history with your partner.

 

So for starters, I'd take half a day to sit quietly and make up a skeleton of your chronicle, thinking as you go of what you can use as supportive statements in the absence of documentation and making notes as you go so as you have reminders of what to flesh out later, one thing to bear in mind though is that the examples mentioned on the DIAC link [and do have a look at them] do not give a definite weighting to travelling time together but if you can show a lengthy relationship and even your departure for the UK being reasoned then there may be a chance.

 

Get your case together, read the Booklet #1 and with the examples given you should have some idea of the strength of your case.

If it really looks borderline, sitting down with an agent should allow confirmation of whether to apply or not.

It may be worth your time to take another look at your application supporting information and see if you can present it better, any parents statements for instance, and then seeing as you have at least had a constructive meeting already, see if you can get in touch with the same officer and say you appreciate your supportive information was not the best and have since been appraised of examples of what people put forward and whether the officer would be prepared to take a second look.

 

In your case, if the letter from the pub owner does not make mention of your relationship as well as having the free accommodation, I'd get him to knock up something for you, make it a combined personal reference/relationship bloomed etc. and that he has known you as a couple, both in business and personally from such and such a date.

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Guest Katey

Hi Joelle,

 

Our stories are quite similar. I'm holding a WHV as well (expires 9 march 2010) and just lodged the De-facto partner visa on 14 Dec 2009.

 

Me and my fiance got engaged just couple of weeks before we lodged the visa application (Adelaide). I was also concerned about the engagement part, but foundt out that it doesn't change anything. I was advised to tick both, the de-facto and engaged to be married part in the application. That's all. We couldn't apply any other visa since we're in Australia. And even getting married doesn't change the process that much. The only difference probably is that you don't need to prove your 12 months De-facto relationship.

 

Congrats on your engagement. Doesn't it feel great!! I also didn't wanna rush on organising a wedding. So we do it with time enjoying the time in between.

 

Also, before I forgot, they did remind us to inform them when we do get married and send them the marridge certificate. I guess to make sure that the names and some other issues are correct. :smile:

 

Cheers,

 

Katey

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Guest joelle

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks so much for all your replies!

 

Happy Lass - I will check on my WHV limitations, fingers crossed for a 'No Further Stay' restriction ;)

 

Wanderer thanks for all that info, it was really helpful/insightful, I've spoken to my old boss and he has now constructed his letter to refelect the statements that you recommended.

 

Our Visa's now almost ready to send off (Just waiting for my partner to finish his partner declaration and some phone bills from the UK), feels great that were almost there and now a new phase of worry, 'Did we do enough?'... I have included EVERYTHING, even pics of our flat (to show that we have the same room as the spare room is a dressing room come art room) and pics of gifts to each other. Only thing I'm a bit apprehensive about is my partners evidence of earnings for the past 2 years as the initial year was spent in the UK and he was doing alot of travelling so lots is lost, would bank statements suffice to fill in the gaps?

 

I posted in a seperate thread about where to go to lodge our application, we're a based in Wollongong, is it better/neccessary to get an interview and lodge at the same time?

 

Thanks sooooo much! :)

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Good luck Joelle! Sounds like your application is really thorough. Hope you get some good news soon :)


OH's subclass 309 visa application submitted on 25/06/2010

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Guest joelle

Hi all,

 

Just a quick update, I've spoken to the DIAC (Don't fall off the chair but I was only on hold for 30secs!) and they have confirmed that there is no 8503 conditions on a WHV...

 

Also, earliest appointment for Sydney is 17th Feb, so if you are planning on applying around then, call and book now :)

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How does it work when you apply in-person? Do they tell you straight away if you need to provide more info?


OH's subclass 309 visa application submitted on 25/06/2010

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Guest joelle

I don't really know sorry Cimbon. I imagine they would maybe go through the application with you present and ask any questions and/or tell you what else you need to provide?

 

The guy on the phone assured me that if they do need further evidence they will ask for it, so hopefully if I've missed something we can just provide it as and when rather than get a flat-out refusal...

 

I'm not going through an agent so don't really know whats entailed, except for what I read here and advice I've had from friends who have already been through this process.

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Guest Patrick06

Hi Joelle,

 

Thanks for your useful thread for me to reference. I am also planning to submit the application form in person. However, as you mentioned your WHV will be expired on 10th Feb 2010, but the appointment is on 17th Feb, right? Then, how can you get the bridge visa or to extend the WHV before 17th Feb?

 

Thanks,

Patrick

Hi all,

 

Just a quick update, I've spoken to the DIAC (Don't fall off the chair but I was only on hold for 30secs!) and they have confirmed that there is no 8503 conditions on a WHV...

 

Also, earliest appointment for Sydney is 17th Feb, so if you are planning on applying around then, call and book now :)

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Thank you for your advice, Nemesis. I will have to ask Immigrations if I can put "de facto" when I have already sent a first document saying "engaged".

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Thank you for your advice, Nemesis. I will have to ask Immigrations if I can put "de facto" when I have already sent a first document saying "engaged".

 

I've moved your question to its own thread too, in case you get further replies.


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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