watneyni Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Gill, Please can you just confirm a time and place for us to meet you for Monday? Thanks Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rachbarlow Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Hi Gill, I wish you all the luck for Monday, and hope that something positive comes out of this. I am sorry we cannot be there, but will be in spirit. My OH is working away next week, and I am struggeling to get childcare as it is a 5 hour trip for me. Go Gill we are all right behind you!!! :notworthy: Rach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellathedog Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Hi Gill and all the 'Monday people' As Nick and Rach have said, just want to wish you all the best for your meeting. Lets hope you get something from it, at least Gill emails and letters are stirring them into some sort of action. Again, to you all , thank you for what you are doing. Wishing you all the best, Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Gill, Please can you just confirm a time and place for us to meet you for Monday? Thanks Nick Hi Nick We need to meet in the main foyer of Australia House as close to 11.30am as possible, please. The meeting with David Wilden is due to start at 12 noon. Once we have all been through the security screening and have been issued with our visitor passes, we will be taken to the meeting room, I am told. Australia House is a big building which is clearly marked. It must be 10 years since I last went there and I can't remember much about the place except that it is impossible to miss it and everyone knows where it is. It is on the corner of the Strand and the Aldwych. Please remember to e-mail David Wilden to confirm your real name and that you will be attending. His e-mail addy is david.wilden[at]dfat.gov.au See you there. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlino Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Hello, all the best on 30/11, Monday, may our voices be heard! Looking forward to updates on here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartertucker Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Hope all goes well for you all at Mondays meeting.....:yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie ellis Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Hi Golly have you got the 15 people ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bindog1uk Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Good Luck Gill, I am sure that there will be a lot of us all thinking about you all. Go give em what for. Best Wishes Lesley and Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouseBear Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Thank you and good luck for Monday's visit! :wubclub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 The very best of luck to you for the meeting and my sincere thanks for doing it!:notworthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chrissy990 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Thank you so much for all the hard work you put in for all of us dreaming that one day we will move to Australia. We'll be thinking of you on Monday!! Good Luck Vincent, Christine and the kids XXXXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Left, left, left, right left. You in the suit with the DIAC badge! Ten' hut! Front and centre! Not so slovenly! Stand straight! Your orders for today are: ............................ (fill in where appropriate). If you can't do that within a reasonable timeframe, you'll be manning the smallest Customs patrol ship we have running around between Sri Lanka and Indonesia! :policeman: Good luck everyone, wahtch out for the smooth talk and the platitudes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Jamie, Good luck everyone, wahtch out for the smooth talk and the platitudes Any crackers will likely be spread that way as well so going to be hard to be missed. I'd just not have my hopes up Gill and team for on basis of advice already, all you can expect to hear will be what's policy. A pin striped diplomat at AH is hardly part of policy making and as for what may have been said or interpreted to have been said at a meeting between DIAC/MIA unless something has been officially anounced, don't expect Wilden to come out with anything on that. But hope you get something out of attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Wanderer, this is a chance to swing DIAC's "man on the ground" in Europe to being aware of the hole this will put in UK/Aus migration patterns for some time to come. Nothing much might come from the meeting in itself, but if the Minister needs to understand two things in his portfolio it is these issues, a) that immigration is not a tap that runs on and off as you want, and b) trust in that DIAC will be fair and reliable in processing the application. A) It takes a year or so for new policy and changes to be bedded in. Once the new MODL comes out, ansd whatever other changes spring from that, someone has to be a guinea pig. B) People plan ahead when it comes to migrating, they consider school years, children's ages, health issues, fiancial issues, and they need to know what the timelines, costs, procedures and obstacles are. Rapid change of timelines, new priorities, retroactive change and eligibility changes are anathema to that. With new requriements, I for one would not want to rely on a forum and a website to learn about something new from somewhat speculative and hearsay/guesswork messages, I'd be paying an hourly consulting fee for advice from a registered migration agent who would have been briefed at a DIAC CPD session and has recent training and access to current legislation/PAMs and processing procedures. Agent contributions on this forum will be much sought after once the changes come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Wanderer I will ask site admin to change your user name to Jonah, shall I? Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlino Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 GOOD LUCK GILL & FRIENDS! Hope key issues will be heard and something meaningful will come out of this meeting. In retrospect, it's hard for anyone to understand why we have to resort to this, and we appreciate everyone's efforts in lobbying key players in this industry. I don't think we're going to use this opportunity to beg for visas, rather make it known that we will not put up with status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hi Jamie Thanks for your messages. PiO was down all day yesterday, which was a pain because I was hoping to do all the final messaging and preparation with the remainder of the Oz House group yesterday, but never mind. I have got up specially early this morning instead (mainly because I woke up wanting a cuppa, which is now beside me) and I can get lots done whilst others are still abed. Wanderer, this is a chance to swing DIAC's "man on the ground" in Europe to being aware of the hole this will put in UK/Aus migration patterns for some time to come. Jamie, I agree with you 100%. I agree with everything else you have said in your post above, too. We will have to put up with a fair amount of old flannel because DIAC are determined to trot it out. Also, when they have nothing concrete and encouraging to say they fall back on flannel like a dog rearranging the old blanket in its basket. I've sent Mr Wilden a link to this thread. I expect him to have had the courtesy to read the whole thread before we meet with him tomorrow. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 GOOD LUCK GILL & FRIENDS! Hope key issues will be heard and something meaningful will come out of this meeting. In retrospect, it's hard for anyone to understand why we have to resort to this, and we appreciate everyone's efforts in lobbying key players in this industry. I don't think we're going to use this opportunity to beg for visas, rather make it known that we will not put up with status quo. Hi Merlino Since the Australian Government have chosen to shift the goalposts after helping themselves to people's money, they have no further right to keep applicants tied into their GSM program and to stick to those people's money. They must come up with coherent proposals for seeing to it that nobody who wants to withdraw from the game after this retroactive change in the rules is left out of pocket as a result of deciding to do themselves (and indirectly also Australia) a favour by pulling out. What it would cost the Aussie Government is irrelevant. They should have considered the costs before changing the rules in the way that they have and if they don't like the size of the bill, that is too bad because they had the chance to do proper costings before they embarked on their 2009 escapades. It is not up to foreigners living abroad with no right to live in Australia to finance running any part of the Australian Government's programs. I hammered this point into Mr Wilden on the phone. He countered by saying that they may be able to increase the size of the GSM program in future years, thus reducing the likely wait for visas. I filed that suggestion. I will thrash it out with him tomorrow. What they might do in future years cannot be factored into what they have done in September 2009. They must deal with the situation as it is, not with the hypothetical situation that they hope for at some unspecified time in the future. Mr W remarked that he thought the size of the skilled migrant intake in 2010/2011 will probably be held at about the 108,000 mark. If his hunch is right, he is suggesting a Utopia which will not even be seen for another 3 years. He kept harping that, "The Australian Government will do what is right for Australia." NOT using other people's money, it won't. Australia must finance its Government's escapades out of Australia's own money, NOT with money half-inched from foreign visa applicants. Even Minister Evans can understand this fact. Fingers crossed! Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 He kept harping that, "The Australian Government will do what is right for Australia." You can tell him that you absolutely agree with him, and add "do you mean just for this very second, or for next year and thereafter?" If they're wanting to do the right thing for only right now, congratulations they've done that admirably well, but they've also put a knife through the future skilled migration stream of the most well settling, most easily employable, most supportive and best skilled migrants for the next five years. The "right thing for Australia" is to have a steady flow of skilled migration applicants for both now and in the future. Short term thinking and a lack of action earlier were how we got into this mess. Short term thinking and knee jerk responses will not get us out of it, nor will it restore the stream of skilled migrants for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hi Jamie Between thee & me, I agree with you. I think that potential British migrants even two or three years hence will see today's debacle as evidence of a capricious Australian Government and an equally capricious DIAC. If so, they will be suspicious, mistrustful and inclined to consider other destinations as well or instead, I suspect. However the Minister, his Ministerial team of advisers and DIAC all seem to believe that all migrants imagine that Australia is Nirvana, so that even if loads of the current applicants pull out, there will be an inexhaustible supply of eager replacements in the future. They might well be right. George has mentioned a similar debacle back in 2004. I don't know the details of that but not long ago an elderly neighbour of mine, a charming old boy, and I were having a chat. He knew that my family are in Oz and he has met them so we had a brief chat about how is Mum etc. I then mentioned that skilled migration to Oz is in strife presently. Old Dick promptly told me about his son-in-law. Apparently a few years ago S-i-L wanted to migrate to Oz. He is a General Electrician. According to Dick, S-i-L spent £4,000 on investigating, applying or whatever he did. (Dick did not know the details.) Apparently at the end of whatever had cost the £4,000 S-i-L was told that at the time Australia did not want the sort of electricians who know about wiring a house. Back then the demand was for electricians who can wire up a mine and similar according to Dick - industrial electrics I guess. S-i-L did not fit the bill so he walked away from his Australian Hopes, £4,000 poorer but he has never looked back and is doing well in the UK instead, I gather. It hasn't made a blind bit of difference to Australia. If it had done so, the GSM program would not be over-subscribed now, after all. The other thing is that migration agents have a vested interest in talking the situation up at any given time. Over 60% of RMAs were first registered 5 years ago or less according to the OMARA. Even if today's old hands give up the game, as far as I know there is no shortage of wannabe replacements for them doing the Grad Cert course as we speak. The Minister might think that Australia cannot lose the gamble and he might be right. David W told me (and I expect he will want to repeat it to the others tomorrow) that predicting the demand for visas has much in common with reading the tealeaves. He said that no matter how many different models DIAC test, the facts are never quite as the models suggest. I filed that comment as well. I plan to ask him what models tomorrow. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 The other thing is that migration agents have a vested interest in talking the situation up at any given time. Over 60% of RMAs were first registered 5 years ago or less according to the OMARA. Even if today's old hands give up the game, as far as I know there is no shortage of wannabe replacements for them doing the Grad Cert course as we speak. Not sure that is a particularly desirable outcome, Gill - losing all that experience and leaving intending migrants in the hands of inexperienced newly registereds ... a recipe for even more chaos perhaps? Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 PS. The issue here is not the demand for visas - I think it is probably common ground that the Australian Government has the right (and indeed the duty) to determine the supply. However, the supply of visas involves a bargain with intending migrants in which reasonable expectations (based on issues such as transparency and published service delivery timelines) and notions of fair play are inherent, otherwise there is (I submit) a breach of trust by the Aussie Government, particularly if changes such as those we have seen in recent times have retrospective effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hi Alan Not sure that is a particularly desirable outcome, Gill - losing all that experience and leaving intending migrants in the hands of inexperienced newly registereds ... a recipe for even more chaos perhaps? I didn't say that it is desirable. I don't think for a second that it s. I merely think it is what might happen with some of the "old hands." I also think the custom of allowing newly registered RMAs to practice on their own accounts and unsupervised after only a smattering of training is absolutely deplorable. However the will to change the system does not seem to exist. Visa applicants become the guinea pigs. However, the supply of visas involves a bargain with intending migrants in which reasonable expectations (based on issues such as transparency and published service delivery timelines) and notions of fair play are inherent, otherwise there is (I submit) a breach of trust by the Aussie Government, particularly if changes such as those we have seen in recent times have retrospective effect. The Government's stance is firm. They are saying that the grant of a visa is a privilege, not a right, and that no bargain is involved. The applicant takes pot luck and accepts the right of the relevant Government to alter the rules as they go along, regardless of the hardship which this might cause to individual applicants. There is no other stance that they can adopt in the current situation and I doubt that it will be possible to shake them on this one. I think the best compromise - commercially - is going to lie in convincing DIAC to be liberal and generous in their interpretation of what constitutes "compelling and compassionate" circumstances, so that they cause as little harm as possible to as few people as possible. I sense that Mr Wilden is willing to try to do this wherever he feels that it would be appropriate to do so. How much success he might have is another matter but I think he would use his own influence - in so far as that might count for anything. Even knocking chunks off his charm in recognition of the fact that he is a career diplomat, Mr W does seem to me to be a nice man who does not want to see individual visa applicants suffering if he can do something to prevent - or at least alleviate - that. I've made another cuppa and the weather here this morning is foul. Cold, wet, windy and it was lashing with rain a few minutes ago. If you are around in about 90 minutes time, I am doing a draft in Word of all the points I think the team ought to raise and the ground we should try to cover tomorrow. When it is ready I will copy and paste it into this thread, to give us all time to add, subtract and between us ensure that we get as much as we possibly can out of the meeting tomorrow. ALL suggestions & comments will be very gratefully received, both from you and from anyone else who can be bothered to help to provide a steer. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill_er_Bong Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I have got up specially early this morning instead (mainly because I woke up wanting a cuppa, which is now beside me) and I can get lots done whilst others are still abed. Crikey! 0535! Nothing like a Sunday morning lie in eh Gill? I thought I was doing well getting up for MOTD! I am very sorry I am not able to attend tomorrow, I would have loved to come to offer my support. I'm sure it will be a very interesting meeting, and apart from the chance to exert some pressure in aid of our cause, also a great rare opportunity to meet our resident champion Gill! However, I live at the other end of the country and have only just got home from a 5 week overseas sortie. The Mrs wouldn't have appreciated my disappearing again leaving her to fend with the nippers! So I'm afraid all I can offer is some moral support... good luck all, and many many thanks to Gill for organising this and to those who are making the effort to make the appearance. Cheers BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Louise1971 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hi Gill and all, just a quick note of good luck for tomorrow, sorry cant be there work and family commitments, but will be thinking of you all and hope some good news comes out of it. After all the hard work you have put in Gill it is thoroughly deserved, if I was Mr W I would write out your visa there and then! I think you have done a fantastic job. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.