Jump to content
Guest Mach

What will happen if and when the CSL dies?

Recommended Posts

Guest Mach

I'm wondering what the outcome would be for the Minister’s priorities if and when the CSL disappears.

 

The only logical priority group would then be state sponsored applications, wouldn’t it? Or if they replaced the CSL with some Frankenstein combination of the CSL and MODL, then logically the new list would need to be the subject of some new prioritisation?

 

In any renewed listing, surely there must be scope for the Minister to save face with respect to those who were previously on the verge of grant?

 

Cheers,

 

//Mach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest proud2beaussie

I was under the understanding from what I have read on the IMMI website that the CSL would be phased out as part of the restructure of the MODL,so I'm assuming (possibly very wrongly!) that the new MODL was the replacement for it.

Edited to add:

This is what I base my opinion on.

Q4. What will happen to priority processing of CSL applications?

 

Occupations which are listed on the CSL receive priority processing, which assists the targeting of the migration program. These arrangements will continue until the review is finalised. Once the review is finalised, arrangements for phasing out the CSL will be announced.

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/modl-review/faq.htm

 

BTW I know next to nothing about visas etc so this is just my own view and I may well be 100% wrong,I am not claiming to have any special knowledge about what is going to happen to the CSL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest wanderer

Rest assured, there'll still be a priority approach and the last thing on the Senator's mind or that of any DIAC head honchos will be saving face.

 

I'd not even think that Senator Evans will be considering a retirement in Cuckfield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the last thing on the Senator's mind or that of any DIAC head honchos will be saving face.

 

The uppermost thing on any politician's mind is making him/herself look good and creating the impression they have never made a mistake in their lives. Look at Blair and Brown in the UK. Granted Thatcher now admits it was a mistake going into the EU in 1972. Look at Keating still justifying his stint as PM. Howard will do the same until the day he dies. Ditto Rudd in due course.

 

As for the Public Service, the first rule of self preservation and promotion is that of ar#e covering. The second is making sure that contentious decisions are made by a committee. The third is that if something works out well claim all the credit for yourself.

 

It is all about saving face.


Les Mighalls BDS LLB(Hons) LDS FACLM, MARA Reg. No. 0639714

Migration Assistance Australia

www.migrationassistance.com.au

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jamie Smith

[insert country here] Civil Service Code of Conduct:

 

 

 

  1. Enthusiasm (too many applications, let's cut them all back and do it retrospectively)
  2. Disillusionment (oops, we've upset a lot of people by taking money for nothing)
  3. Panic (did I sign actually and legibly my name on that policy paper?)
  4. Search for the Guilty (who came up the idea originally and who else signed off on it?)
  5. Punishment of the innocent (let's blame the customers for applying in the first place)
  6. Praise and Honours for the Non-Participants (Opposition parties decry changes in six month's time after the boat people get off the front page of the newspaper)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest wanderer

James, where's the carriage?

What sort of BS is best for the Mushroom Club?

 

Migration Desires

Under Informed

Something Mucky hits the Fan

Hopes Dashed

Rallye against?, Revolution!, Where's Alan the Leader?

Officiladom and the Offices

Onward All Soldiers to battle the

Ministers and Cohorts

Supposing something!, better than Suffrage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jamie Smith
James, where's the carriage?

What sort of BS is best for the Mushroom Club?

 

Migration Desires

Under Informed

Something Mucky hits the Fan

Hopes Dashed

Rallye against?, Revolution!, Where's Alan the Leader?

Officiladom and the Offices

Onward All Soldiers to battle the

Minsters and Cohorts

Supposing something!, better than Suffrage.

 

The best brand of Bullsh*t for you mushrooms is "Official".

 

 

  • It smothers everything

  • Stinks on close examination

  • Works anywhere except where you want it to,

  • Ends up costing more than you agreed to pay in the sales contract,

  • Is either delivered early when it's not needed or delivered late after you finish needing it

  • Goes on regular overseas trips to research the growing of pine trees to turn into cardboard for mushroom farms (with a stopover in some city that is concidentally having a family meber's wedding or a major sports event.

 

Jamie please, James sounds too official!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jamie please, James sounds too official! [/QUOTE]

 

I suspect only your mother would have called you James, and even then only when you were in trouble!

 

Cheers,

 

Les


Les Mighalls BDS LLB(Hons) LDS FACLM, MARA Reg. No. 0639714

Migration Assistance Australia

www.migrationassistance.com.au

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[insert country here] Civil Service Code of Conduct:

 

 

 

  1. Enthusiasm (too many applications, let's cut them all back and do it retrospectively)

  2. Disillusionment (oops, we've upset a lot of people by taking money for nothing)

  3. Panic (did I sign actually and legibly my name on that policy paper?)

  4. Search for the Guilty (who came up the idea originally and who else signed off on it?)

  5. Punishment of the innocent (let's blame the customers for applying in the first place)

  6. Praise and Honours for the Non-Participants (Opposition parties decry changes in six month's time after the boat people get off the front page of the newspaper)

 

 

As a Civil Servant I resemble that remark!!:biglaugh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jamie Smith

After being called Jamie for soooo long now, James sounds too Jeeves'sih to my ears, too snobby (with apologies to other James who happen to like it.)

 

Jamie is a little more individual. :jimlad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jamie Smith
As a Civil Servant I resemble that remark!!:biglaugh:Catherine, Matt, Jamie 15 and Travis 8 ,July 08 TRA passed,Sept 2008 175 Visa ,House sold, March 2009 off CSL Mothballs.SS granted 17/07/09 CO requested further info 11/08/09 Extra PC's applied for 21/08/09 all clear and sent. Back to mothballs

 

Mothballs, eh?

 

What do they smell like?

 

Me personally, I could never get their little legs apart without breaking them off. :swoon:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Mach

Had an interesting conversation offline that there might be an argument for DIAC bringing SS back up the hierarchy – maybe even as equal to the new CSL – at the expense of the 475 programme.

 

After all, a good way to avoid all the (otherwise wholly unnecessary) state sponsoring that is going on is to collapse categories 2, 3 and 4 having thrown away the 475 subclass completely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jamie Smith

What would be the argument? Selecting one type of sponsor ahead of another? Who get's to play favourites?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Mach

The rationale as I understood it was that it was better to choose the group of sponsees that perhaps had the most to offer the states' economies (i.e., "normal" 176 SS). As for cherry picking and playing favourites... I'd dare say it's a job that's not entirely outside of DIAC's comfort zone :D

 

Plus there was the point about the 475 being a three-year temporary visa compared to PR, so it made more sense to invest in the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jamie Smith
The rationale as I understood it was that it was better to choose the group of sponsees that perhaps had the most to offer the states' economies (i.e., "normal" 176 SS). As for cherry picking and playing favourites... I'd dare say it's a job that's not entirely outside of DIAC's comfort zone :D

 

Plus there was the point about the 475 being a three-year temporary visa compared to PR, so it made more sense to invest in the latter.

 

Many parts of the States require the "lesser" skilled people in occupations not on MODL but on regional lists, so I would think that the regions are heavily pressing the States to not be dumped in priority, rather asking their States to give priority to non-metro sponsored applications ahead of the "uncontrolled" ones.

 

It's a fallacy for a State to think that all sponsored people end up working in their chosen profession in the State , as it's more likely they will do so in a region if the region sponsors them. The temp to PR pathway is how they can incentivise migrants to move to the regions.

 

If there is any easing up based on benevolence, I would think it is more politically acceptable to be kind to those who are more beholden to the State in some way rather than "sponsor and hope".

 

On the other hand, if a skills shortage is the rationale to be used for relaxation, then yes the higher pointed visas might get up first.

 

Hopefully the Minister's butt might get sore soon from sitting on this particular fence and he'll make a decision once he sees an attractive escape route.

 

That relaxation might only happen once he sees if there is a significant and sustainable fall off in new applications. The coupla tens of thousands of students graduating are the looming spanner in the works.

 

If the Minister does nothing with decoupling them from Skilled migration stream then chances of a relaxation in -processing priorities are very slim, but it will help preserve the student generated capital inflow for the country and universities/colleges.

 

If he decouples students from having a clear entitlement to PR, he'll collapse the overseas student market and deprive universities etc of much needed funding, many thousands will lose their jobs in hospitality, retail etc, and many businesses will lsoe their part time workers.

 

Inaction over the past two years since DIAC first informed the Minister of student graduate growth numbers is the reason we are where we are now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However you look at this, there's an oversupply of applicants (and irrespective of how it happened), so the mechanism chosen for resolving the oversupply is going to involve winners and losers.

 

And even if there were no prioritisation people applying today would be facing a two year wait.

 

But to the extent that they've chosen to use more highly skilled turnover generating professionals as a response to the GFC, I doubt that they'll see the "'lesser' skilled people" (Jamie's phrase) as being such a priority. Plenty of those in South Australia anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

George Lombard


George Lombard LLB(Hons) Fellow of the Migration Institute of Australia

MARN 9601056 george[at]austimmigration[dot]com[dot]au

www.austimmigration.com.au

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But to the extent that they've chosen to use more highly skilled turnover generating professionals as a response to the GFC, I doubt that they'll see the "'lesser' skilled people" (Jamie's phrase) as being such a priority. Plenty of those in South Australia anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

George Lombard

That is a disgraceful thing to say. There are some very highly skilled people in SA and I think one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country is proof of that fact.

 

Just because someone is not on the CSL or MODL does not make them "lesser skilled". Our daughter has a 50-point occupation, a BA Hons degree, numerous UK and Aust certificates and diplomas in other subjects and a solid work history. She had 115 points for a pass mark of 100. She applied for the 475 purely because it was quicker (big laugh) and, having already lost her job in the UK, decided to come and wait out here with us. With the benefit of hindsight - big mistake!

 

She has since done the stupid English test (passing with 8's and 9's) but cannot have the 10 extra points added to her application to change from a 475 to a 176. She is also unable to put in a totally new application because she now doesn't have the relevant recent experience due to her "waiting" out here on a tourist visa for most of the past year.

 

What on earth can she do if the 475 programme for family sponsored is now scrapped?

Is the only alternative for us to leave this once wonderful country after almost 20 years - because right at this moment it is a very serious consideration. :arghh::realmad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Kazzarazza,

 

Point taken, yes I should have inserted a smilie. My point was only that the Minister has evidently chosen a strategy which involves a certain set of skills, and my reference to Jamie's "lesser skilled" comment was entirely ironic - obviously, given the thrust of his argument, he was also being ironic.

 

Cheers,

 

George Lombard


George Lombard LLB(Hons) Fellow of the Migration Institute of Australia

MARN 9601056 george[at]austimmigration[dot]com[dot]au

www.austimmigration.com.au

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest wanderer

Jaimie,

Hopefully the Minister's butt might get sore soon from sitting on this particular fence and he'll make a decision once he sees an attractive escape route.

 

That relaxation might only happen once he sees if there is a significant and sustainable fall off in new applications. The coupla tens of thousands of students graduating are the looming spanner in the works.

 

If the Minister does nothing with decoupling them from Skilled migration stream then chances of a relaxation in -processing priorities are very slim, but it will help preserve the student generated capital inflow for the country and universities/colleges.

 

If he decouples students from having a clear entitlement to PR, he'll collapse the overseas student market and deprive universities etc of much needed funding, many thousands will lose their jobs in hospitality, retail etc, and many businesses will lsoe their part time workers.

 

Inaction over the past two years since DIAC first informed the Minister of student graduate growth numbers is the reason we are where we are now.

 

You do have a particular slant on this issue, for taking the last first:

. There's a lot of people who'd say there's been a huge ammount of activity quite opposite to inaction in the past 12 months.

Prior to that, there weren't too many people about saying the global economies were going to go into reverse.

 

. I'd think the Minister's butt is far from being sore but he may take Panadol to dull his senses from people with dull senses.

 

. Actions taken already are going to regulate to some extent the situation with some students that are looking for pathways to PR and whereas that has never been a guaranteed automatic route, higher skilled courses and occupations in demand offer more favourable outcomes.

The CSL/MODL/SOL is all about recognising OID and hence reviews of MODL, the latest review having also said that it has proved not to be the best tool and hence current review.

 

Meanwhile, if students see that the PR pathways will not be so good in the future for some occupations and that was their sole objective, yes then you could expect that there ought to be a drop off in student numbers in some areas - Supply and Demand rules and always has unless distorted and the distortion could still take place with recruiting agents hoodwinking potential students - a problem those students need to address with agents in their country and with their government.

 

This does not happen overnight and never will and hence for time being there'll be students on bridging visas and they may drift into alternative work, perhaps become eligible for other visas, call it a market correction in a free enterprise society if you like.

 

The decoupling as you call it is already there and sure, if there's an oversupply of hairdressers, cooks, accountants and whatever else and people who are eligible for visas based on those occupations want to work in those areas, they'll likely find that they'll be of lower priority and have to wait and wait and may never in fact be able to get a visa.

 

It has never been that because you're eligible for a visa you're guaranteed of getting one.

 

Some smaller colleges may go down the gurgler and with some it may not be such a bad thing if thay are but a PR factory as has been described by another poster on another thread.

Will that affect the economy, a blip in the greater scope of the universe.

 

A hospitality school in Melbourne closed its doors the other day, reported to be 2000 students involved, a lot international.

State minister was all lovey dovey, yes we have to look after them, find them new places etc.

Just hope she has some staff familiar with DIAC requirements re Visas.

 

Will life go on if quite a few visa holders find that they may well be without one and have to leave?

Of course it will.

 

Is a lot of doom and gloom fostered by parties with vested interests?

Quite possibly I'd say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jamie Smith

 

Wanderer, I can't take you seriously if you can't get my name right! :tongue:

 

You're also repeating stuff that is already widely known or is a given in terms of logical process.

 

My comments are related to what I see as a decision making process and what might be considered in it.

 

Kazzarazza, the reference to "lesser" skilled was in the context of points being awarded or a particualr visa processing priority, and not in any way related to the people involved, hence the use of the inverted commas. Apologies for the confusion. :notworthy:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Justin JIANG
Had an interesting conversation offline that there might be an argument for DIAC bringing SS back up the hierarchy – maybe even as equal to the new CSL – at the expense of the 475 programme.

 

After all, a good way to avoid all the (otherwise wholly unnecessary) state sponsoring that is going on is to collapse categories 2, 3 and 4 having thrown away the 475 subclass completely.

 

Dear Mach,

 

If the argument is ture, what do you think of the possible time that DIAC would implement the new priority bringing SS back up the hierarchy? Wow, it would be fatantantic if DIAC could make SS non-CSL as equal to the new CSL-standing at priority 4. My hunch is that DIAC might do it in together with the MODL changes which would be published soon later this year or earlier next year, e.g. Jan or Feb.

 

Cheers

 

Justin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Mach

Hey Justin,

 

Haha, how long is a piece of string?! I can only call it based on the facts I've gathered and the conversations I've had with credible sources. That said, if I was a betting man I'd say that considerable changes to the SS system are more than likely to happen next year.

 

For me, the best indication came out of the meeting in Hobart, where it was explained in no uncertain terms that not much is likely to happen until after the election. Given that could take place at any time from now until April 16, 2011, it gives us a very broad timescale.

 

I'd also like to flag that it was mentioned that the changes to the CSL and MODL could also be delayed until then too. The new list's timing depends on so many factors ranging from the economy to how hot a political potato GSM is following all the column inches written about refugees recently.

 

Nevertheless I think your hunch has a lot of merit as the government will look at ways to safeguard Labour votes. For example, penalising family sponsored non-CSL applicants is one negative ripple they might want to address. Plus something has to be done to clear the backlog. But while I'll be hoping for January, I'll also be prepared for post-October/November when the election is more likely to be held IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Justin JIANG
Hey Justin,

 

Haha, how long is a piece of string?! I can only call it based on the facts I've gathered and the conversations I've had with credible sources. That said, if I was a betting man I'd say that considerable changes to the SS system are more than likely to happen next year.

 

For me, the best indication came out of the meeting in Hobart, where it was explained in no uncertain terms that not much is likely to happen until after the election. Given that could take place at any time from now until April 16, 2011, it gives us a very broad timescale.

 

I'd also like to flag that it was mentioned that the changes to the CSL and MODL could also be delayed until then too. The new list's timing depends on so many factors ranging from the economy to how hot a political potato GSM is following all the column inches written about refugees recently.

 

Nevertheless I think your hunch has a lot of merit as the government will look at ways to safeguard Labour votes. For example, penalising family sponsored non-CSL applicants is one negative ripple they might want to address. Plus something has to be done to clear the backlog. But while I'll be hoping for January, I'll also be prepared for post-October/November when the election is more likely to be held IMO.

 

Hey Mach,

 

Tks for you response. Could you please shed some light on what you mentioned that you have had conversation with credible sources? what credible sources are they? you said' I'd also like to flag that it was mentioned that the changes to the CSL and MODL could also be delayed until then too'. If it is true, it clearly echoes what DIAC talked about the timescale for offshore applicants, that's the processing for non-csl,ss applicantion would not be commenced before the end of 2012----------the worse senario i think.

 

Cheers,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×