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17 minutes ago, Ken said:

I find not a day goes by without some white person being on TV saying how proud they are to be aborigine. Today a white cricketer got an award which apparently they were the first aboriginal to get. I think the problem is the constant question "do you consider yourself to be aboriginal or a Torres strait islander" which is forcing people to pick a side rather than being proud of the mixture of races that we all have. They should change the constitution to make it illegal to ask that question! 

Did they try to breed the black out of your ancestors? Ethnic cleansing anyone? 

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22 minutes ago, Lavers said:

One thing that has surprised me really since moving here is how much they thank the aboriginals for using there land etc.

It's a new fashion that only started in the last couple of years.  I see a lot of organisations adding a statement into their events, websites, publicity etc because it's suddenly expected.  It's just a form of words and essentially meaningless.  I'm guessing it's supposed to fool indigenous people into thinking they're being looked after.

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband granted UK spouse visa March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

My new novel, A Dance With Danger, due out August 2022

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1 hour ago, Toots said:

I had a rather unfortunate confrontation with a bloke this morning.  I was just saying cheerio to a friend after we had our morning walk when a big burly man passed by us.  He was pulling a sort of flat bed buggy containing his possessions behind him.  I walked behind him then as he was walking fairly slowly, I passed him.  I followed my usual walk along beside the sea and he walked on the track.  When I passed in front of him to head home he yelled at me that I was a f*****g Pom and just totally lost it screaming horrible abuse whilst I stood there dumbfounded.  He must have heard my accent when I was talking to my friend.  He went on to say he was aboriginal and how much he hated Poms. At that point a local man came along and told the aboriginal bloke to bugger off and took his photo which he said he was going to take to the police.

By the aggressive man's appearance I wouldn't have said he was aboriginal but who knows how much aboriginal he actually had in him.  He could have had a percentage of Pommy blood in him for all we know.   I dare say he had mental health issues and hadn't been taking his meds.   

So much for my peaceful Sunday morning stroll.

Not a nice experience for you xM

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3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

It's a new fashion that only started in the last couple of years.  I see a lot of organisations adding a statement into their events, websites, publicity etc because it's suddenly expected.  It's just a form of words and essentially meaningless.  I'm guessing it's supposed to fool indigenous people into thinking they're being looked after.

There is an aboriginal museum at The Bluff.  It also has all the facilities for a coffee shop  .................  counter, till, coffee machine, shelving, tables and chair etc    .........  in fact a nice little setup.  It has been totally unused in the 8 years we have been here. The building has more or less been abandoned. The council built it for the local aboriginal people to own and run as a little business.  They lost interest.  I walk past it most days and often a tourist will ask if it is open.  It's on the way up to the lighthouse and close by there are ancient aboriginal rock carvings.  Some of the few in Tasmania. It's a real shame they haven't got the initiative to open the building up.

Here it is.  TIAGARRA Aboriginal Cultural Centre.

 

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1 hour ago, Lavers said:

One thing that has surprised me really since moving here is how much they thank the aboriginals for using there land etc.

Most races etc have had things happen to them over the years but I think it's just time to let it go.

Nothing to do with any of us.

I have lived here for 19 years, but was only eligible for citizenship just over a year ago, so this was my 2nd Australia Day this year. I’m not sure if upset is actually the right word to use, but I felt finally being Australian that my 2 Australia Days  were important to me. However I felt  as though I was actually being made unwelcome, by the constant reminders that this is our land by the Aboriginal led celebrations. Surely if immigrants have made such a commitment to move here, taken out Australian citizenship, we should feel welcomed, not constantly made to feel that the country was invaded, it has never been forgotten or forgiven, so newcomers aren’t really welcome here. I don’t like the them and us apparent distinction between the Aboriginal community and immigrants, surely we are all just Australian?

I might have worded the above clumsily and I’m sure others feel differently to me, but probably  every country in the world has been invaded at some time or other and moved on to embrace the country they have become, with a fascinating mix of people.making up the population.

 

Sorry mods if this is against the CTF rules didn’t mean to upset anyone, 

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3 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

Did they try to breed the black out of your ancestors? Ethnic cleansing anyone? 

An ethnic cleansing carried out by their white ancestors, not by anyone who arrived here recently.


Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia) www.kbfayers.com

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6 hours ago, ramot said:

I have lived here for 19 years, but was only eligible for citizenship just over a year ago, so this was my 2nd Australia Day this year. I’m not sure if upset is actually the right word to use, but I felt finally being Australian that my 2 Australia Days  were important to me. However I felt  as though I was actually being made unwelcome, by the constant reminders that this is our land by the Aboriginal led celebrations. Surely if immigrants have made such a commitment to move here, taken out Australian citizenship, we should feel welcomed, not constantly made to feel that the country was invaded, it has never been forgotten or forgiven, so newcomers aren’t really welcome here. I don’t like the them and us apparent distinction between the Aboriginal community and immigrants, surely we are all just Australian?

I might have worded the above clumsily and I’m sure others feel differently to me, but probably  every country in the world has been invaded at some time or other and moved on to embrace the country they have become, with a fascinating mix of people.making up the population.

 

Sorry mods if this is against the CTF rules didn’t mean to upset anyone, 

We have to be mindful of not lumping all aboriginal.people into the same box. There are many Aboriginals people out there doing excellent work trying ro bridge those gaps and integrate our cultures. 

When I hear a welcome to.country it makes me feel proud that I am here and can be included in the rich history of the place. The vast majority want to have their story heard, acknowledged and respected. That's all. They want their rights to be upheld. They want to close the gap. They want to bring their children up as equal citizens not stigmatized by their past. Like it or not many people do look down on the Indigenous population. Tbere are complex reasons why Aboriginals are overrepresented in the prison population. We are literally just a few generations out from forced removal of children form.their families. That's not something people can just 'get over'. They have genuine reasons for mistrusting white people. I'm not sure what the answers are but I know the 'move on and get over it' strategy misses the point by a country mile. The more integration and opportunities for the Aboriginal community to gain representation the better. 

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Started watching brokenwood mysteries.

Not bad. Easy watching.

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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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A different slant...April 1964 I was with 2 brothers, driving up to the Kimberlies from Perth. At about Wallal, on the edge of the Great Sandy Desert, we came across a family of Aborigines on 'walkabout'. Well, they were huddled under a couple of low bushes, out of the sun. Then later on, roughly half way between Derby and Fitzroy Crossing another family crossing the road in front of us. There were about 11 in the group, from the alpha male, bedecked in a pair of old jeans, carrying his 5, or 6, spears, to his 3 male youths, all carrying spears. the women and children were simply dressed in slip-over dresses, the tots were naked and the women were carrying coolamons and fire bowls while a couple of kids were walking along with digging sticks. Saw a third group on "walkabout" a year later, out on the plains near Fitzroy Crossing. This last group was too far away to see what they had with them.

A tradition of thousands of years, gone in a lifetime.

There was an air of pride about their beings, not the down turned faces of the youths of today.

An old Aboriginal bloke was our camp attendant, which was just north of Hall's Creek, when we were building the Great Northern Highway. He used to regale me with some customs of theirs; 'singing a man,' 'featherfooting' and a few words in his dialect. Sadly, he was killed by lightning the following year while out hunting wallabies with a rifle.

A world of difference between then and now.

Cheers, Bobj.

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2 hours ago, Bobj said:

A different slant...April 1964 I was with 2 brothers, driving up to the Kimberlies from Perth. At about Wallal, on the edge of the Great Sandy Desert, we came across a family of Aborigines on 'walkabout'. Well, they were huddled under a couple of low bushes, out of the sun. Then later on, roughly half way between Derby and Fitzroy Crossing another family crossing the road in front of us. There were about 11 in the group, from the alpha male, bedecked in a pair of old jeans, carrying his 5, or 6, spears, to his 3 male youths, all carrying spears. the women and children were simply dressed in slip-over dresses, the tots were naked and the women were carrying coolamons and fire bowls while a couple of kids were walking along with digging sticks. Saw a third group on "walkabout" a year later, out on the plains near Fitzroy Crossing. This last group was too far away to see what they had with them.

A tradition of thousands of years, gone in a lifetime.

There was an air of pride about their beings, not the down turned faces of the youths of today.

An old Aboriginal bloke was our camp attendant, which was just north of Hall's Creek, when we were building the Great Northern Highway. He used to regale me with some customs of theirs; 'singing a man,' 'featherfooting' and a few words in his dialect. Sadly, he was killed by lightning the following year while out hunting wallabies with a rifle.

A world of difference between then and now.

Cheers, Bobj.

Unfortunately the old grog took its toll on the aboriginal people.  My last encounter was up in your neck of the woods (Mackay) on my way home from the pub to my hotel, I saw a bloke actually dragging his (I presume) wife home by the hair after having a full on fist fight with her in the middle of the street.

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11 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

We have to be mindful of not lumping all aboriginal.people into the same box. There are many Aboriginals people out there doing excellent work trying ro bridge those gaps and integrate our cultures. 

When I hear a welcome to.country it makes me feel proud that I am here and can be included in the rich history of the place. The vast majority want to have their story heard, acknowledged and respected. That's all. 

I don't think Ramot meant she has experienced people telling her she's not welcome.  It's the overall impression that's conveyed.  

I am fully aware of the history of mistreatment, and that the gap needs to be closed.  I don't think that the current fad for "coming to you from the land of the _____ people" is doing anything whatsoever to help that process.  In fact I think it's the  opposite.   When I hear, "We acknowledge the elders",  almost always spoken by a white person who's reading it off a piece of paper because they have to, it just sounds mealy-mouthed.  They don't mean it, the audience, doesn't mean it, they can't wait to get past it and get on with the rest of the event. 

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband granted UK spouse visa March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

My new novel, A Dance With Danger, due out August 2022

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Honestly they should just live their lives as Australians.

Bit like the American Indians (natives). What can you achieve by going on about stuff that happened hundreds of years before you were born?

I'm sure people in UK could bring up injustices to their forebears hundreds of years ago too. But we are all free today and need to work together and make the best of our lives today.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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30 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I don't think Ramot meant she has experienced people telling her she's not welcome.  It's the overall impression that's conveyed.  

I am fully aware of the history of mistreatment, and that the gap needs to be closed.  I don't think that the current fad for "coming to you from the land of the _____ people" is doing anything whatsoever to help that process.  In fact I think it's the  opposite.   When I hear, "We acknowledge the elders",  almost always spoken by a white person who's reading it off a piece of paper because they have to, it just sounds mealy-mouthed.  They don't mean it, the audience, doesn't mean it, they can't wait to get past it and get on with the rest of the event. 

 

30 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I don't think Ramot meant she has experienced people telling her she's not welcome.  It's the overall impression that's conveyed.  

I am fully aware of the history of mistreatment, and that the gap needs to be closed.  I don't think that the current fad for "coming to you from the land of the _____ people" is doing anything whatsoever to help that process.  In fact I think it's the  opposite.   When I hear, "We acknowledge the elders",  almost always spoken by a white person who's reading it off a piece of paper because they have to, it just sounds mealy-mouthed.  They don't mean it, the audience, doesn't mean it, they can't wait to get past it and get on with the rest of the event. 

I think most posters understood my point. 

I agree with your comments Marisa, it’s a token , fairly meaningless, gesture, better than nothing,     just.

The reality of the world is that dreadful things have happened all over the world,  not just in Australia and sadly still happening, 

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12 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

We have to be mindful of not lumping all aboriginal.people into the same box. There are many Aboriginals people out there doing excellent work trying ro bridge those gaps and integrate our cultures. 

When I hear a welcome to.country it makes me feel proud that I am here and can be included in the rich history of the place. The vast majority want to have their story heard, acknowledged and respected. That's all. They want their rights to be upheld. They want to close the gap. They want to bring their children up as equal citizens not stigmatized by their past. Like it or not many people do look down on the Indigenous population. Tbere are complex reasons why Aboriginals are overrepresented in the prison population. We are literally just a few generations out from forced removal of children form.their families. That's not something people can just 'get over'. They have genuine reasons for mistrusting white people. I'm not sure what the answers are but I know the 'move on and get over it' strategy misses the point by a country mile. The more integration and opportunities for the Aboriginal community to gain representation the better. 

You miss the point of my post. 

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9 minutes ago, ramot said:

You miss the point of my post. 

I didn’t, I was just adding to your thoughts with mine. 

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18 minutes ago, ramot said:

 

I think most posters understood my point. 

I agree with your comments Marisa, it’s a token , fairly meaningless, gesture, better than nothing,     just.

The reality of the world is that dreadful things have happened all over the world,  not just in Australia and sadly still happening, 

I don’t disagree with the second paragraph. 

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23 minutes ago, Parley said:

Honestly they should just live their lives as Australians.

Bit like the American Indians (natives).

I think the difference is that the injustices against Aborigines were still happening in living memory.  If this were a European country, there would be some justification for Aborigines to say, "Your grandparents/parents/ancestors mistreated us, so you owe it to us to make up for all of that". 

I think the difficulty is because Australia is a migrant country.  More than 7 million people have arrived in Australia since 1945 and of course, there have been thousands of children born.  Add all that up, and at least half of today's population has no connection with the people who committed the misdeeds, so they feel no obligation, other than the usual one of looking after the poor and disadvantaged.    Often, it feels as though the indigenous population wants much more than that.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband granted UK spouse visa March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

My new novel, A Dance With Danger, due out August 2022

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1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

I don't think Ramot meant she has experienced people telling her she's not welcome.  It's the overall impression that's conveyed.  

I am fully aware of the history of mistreatment, and that the gap needs to be closed.  I don't think that the current fad for "coming to you from the land of the _____ people" is doing anything whatsoever to help that process.  In fact I think it's the  opposite.   When I hear, "We acknowledge the elders",  almost always spoken by a white person who's reading it off a piece of paper because they have to, it just sounds mealy-mouthed.  They don't mean it, the audience, doesn't mean it, they can't wait to get past it and get on with the rest of the event. 

I was reflecting on when I go to an ‘aboriginal led’ celebration (as quoted) and the feelings it evokes in me as compared to what Ramot described. 

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35 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

I was reflecting on when I go to an ‘aboriginal led’ celebration (as quoted) and the feelings it evokes in me as compared to what Ramot described. 

Most of the celebrations televised on Australia Day were not Aboriginal led, other than the Welcome ceremony. But they were very heavily skewed towards Aboriginal performers and presenters and imagery


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband granted UK spouse visa March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

My new novel, A Dance With Danger, due out August 2022

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2 hours ago, Parley said:

Honestly they should just live their lives as Australians.

Bit like the American Indians (natives). What can you achieve by going on about stuff that happened hundreds of years before you were born?

I'm sure people in UK could bring up injustices to their forebears hundreds of years ago too. But we are all free today and need to work together and make the best of our lives today.

1066 … 

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25 minutes ago, Bottie said:

1066 … 

Still bitter...

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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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37 minutes ago, Bottie said:

1066 … 

I don't know much about the Battle of Hastings.

Does someone owe me an apology?

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Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

I don't know much about the Battle of Hastings.

Does someone owe me an apology?

 

1 hour ago, Parley said:

I don't know much about the Battle of Hastings.

Does someone owe me an apology?

Yep … they killed our King … took our land … no apology … no returning of our land … 

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3 hours ago, Parley said:

Honestly they should just live their lives as Australians.

.....What can you achieve by going on about stuff that happened hundreds of years before you were born?

But it didn't happen just "hundreds of years" ago - that's the point.  Until the 1967 referendum Aboriginals weren't classed as human enough to be counted in the Australian census.  

They were considered wards of the state whose lives were ruled by the Aboriginal "Protection"  🙄 boards of the various states.  They could be forcibly removed from towns into mission stations where their lives were rigidly controlled, including being prevented from leaving;  they were barred from swimming pools, clubs, shops and pubs,  they could be prevented from associating with non aboriginals,  their children could be removed at any time and for any reason, not because they had bad parenting but because it was official policy to "assimilate" them into "white" society.  They could be paid less than a white person for doing exactly the same job - as happened with the workers on cattle stations.  Often their wages were paternalistically "managed" and never made it to the hands of the rightful earners. 

All of this was legal and there would be thousands of people alive today who have lived those experiences.  As a child growing up in a NSW country town in the 1950's I could easily have been taken from my parents if they'd been  Aboriginal or part Aboriginal rather then white Anglo stock.   I'd defy you to "stop going on about it" if your children had been stolen from you or if you had been taken from your parents and spent years trying to reconnect, only to find out too late that they had died.

Quote

Bit like the American Indians (natives).

Don't know why that is mentioned.  Plenty of grievances and law suits still around for unfinished business.  You don't hear about them as much because they are drowned out by the more "newsworthy" black civil rights activity.

 

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1 hour ago, Skani said:

But it didn't happen just "hundreds of years" ago - that's the point.  Until the 1967 referendum Aboriginals weren't classed as human enough to be counted in the Australian census.  

They were considered wards of the state whose lives were ruled by the Aboriginal "Protection"  🙄 boards of the various states.  They could be forcibly removed from towns into mission stations where their lives were rigidly controlled, including being prevented from leaving;  they were barred from swimming pools, clubs, shops and pubs,  they could be prevented from associating with non aboriginals,  their children could be removed at any time and for any reason, not because they had bad parenting but because it was official policy to "assimilate" them into "white" society.  They could be paid less than a white person for doing exactly the same job - as happened with the workers on cattle stations.  Often their wages were paternalistically "managed" and never made it to the hands of the rightful earners. 

All of this was legal and there would be thousands of people alive today who have lived those experiences.  As a child growing up in a NSW country town in the 1950's I could easily have been taken from my parents if they'd been  Aboriginal or part Aboriginal rather then white Anglo stock.   I'd defy you to "stop going on about it" if your children had been stolen from you or if you had been taken from your parents and spent years trying to reconnect, only to find out too late that they had died.

Don't know why that is mentioned.  Plenty of grievances and law suits still around for unfinished business.  You don't hear about them as much because they are drowned out by the more "newsworthy" black civil rights activity.

 

That is irrelevant today. Just as it is irrelevant that women could not vote before the law was changed.

Do women still moan about that today? No.

What matters is what is happening now and how Aboriginal people's lives today can be improved.

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Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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