k8bug79 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Hi, I don't know if anyone will know the answer to this. My husband is starting the application for Citizenship by Descent as his Father was born in Australia to British parents, lived 1 year of his life there but returned home to UK after that. We are fairly sure my husband is eligible for it but there are a couple of points that concern us. 1 the length of time he was there, but can't see anywhere that says this is an issue apart from if his father also was a citizen by descent the he would have had to have lived there for 2 years, but as he is not then this does not apply to us. and the second that they cannot have been there on diplomatic duties. To our knowledge his Grandparents were over there on an extended visit to my father in laws Aunt, they were permanant residents over there, on my father in laws birth certificate it says his Mum was a nurse but his Dad was a Clerk, Commonwealth. I am sure that this probably isn't diplomatic duties, can anyone tell me what this could be? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 If your husbands father never had citizenship I doubt that he will be eligible by descent and you can see your options @ Australian Citizenship – Becoming an Australian Citizen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Yeah father in law is an Australian citizen, I am just concerned that his fathers job of Clerk commonwealth may be diplomatic???? As then he may not be eligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuwandDonna Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Dont know if this helps, but I am australian from living there 4 two years when i was a teen. My two young kids are now australian by descent and my one daughter has never left the UK! we did it earlier this year and had no problems in gainin their citizenship by Descent. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Dont know if this helps, but I am australian from living there 4 two years when i was a teen. My two young kids are now australian by descent and my one daughter has never left the UK!we did it earlier this year and had no problems in gainin their citizenship by Descent. Good luck! Thanks its good to know its quite straight forward. I really can't believe my Father in laws Dad was working as a diplomat so I am hoping I am right and its as straight forward as your application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddysMum Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I am not sure, but I don't think it will be all that straightforward. I applied for citizenship by descent and was successful as my mother was born and raised in Australia. However, in order for my son to acquire citizenship by descent I have to have lived in Australia for TWO YEARS. You husband's circumstances may be a little different, but I would still be worried about taking it for granted if his father did not live in Oz for two years. I really hope I am wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 I am not sure, but I don't think it will be all that straightforward. I applied for citizenship by descent and was successful as my mother was born and raised in Australia. However, in order for my son to acquire citizenship by descent I have to have lived in Australia for TWO YEARS. You husband's circumstances may be a little different, but I would still be worried about taking it for granted if his father did not live in Oz for two years. I really hope I am wrong though. My understanding of the ruling is, if you were born to an Australian citizen over seas then you are entitled t apply for citizenship by descet. However if the australian citizen you are related to is an Australian citizen by descent themselves they must have lived in Oz for 2 years minimum before application. The only acception to this would be if my Father in Law was born in Australia whilst his parents were on diplomatic duties. My father in law is an Australian citizen because he was born there, he is not by descent and he has an Australian birth certificate and dual nationality, is entitled to an Australian passport etc. So that aspect I am not worried about. Its ust weather this job description on the birth certificate means that actually my husbands Grandfather could have been working at the embassy? I can't see why he would have been and he certainly didn't go over there to do the job to our knowledge, they went over because his family were living out there, but I have never seen the title of occupation as Clerk, Commonwealth. It could well be nothing to do with the embassy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest30038 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 My wife was born in Oz. Her father was a UK naval officer serving with the Australian Navy. She only lived here 3 months and never returned until we applied for a 176 visa 15 yrs ago. We applied for a 176 because we had read that to qualify for citizenship, she would have had to lived in Oz for a certain number of years (I forget how many) but she couldn't meet those requirements. The 176 application was rejected (we were told by phone), on the grounds that she disn't need a visa as she was an Australian subject and could enter Oz any time she wanted............we were gobsmacked! (they kept the visa application money by the way):arghh: What later transpired was that the law requiring a certain number of years residency, was enacted (I think..I could be wrong) in 1984 and was not retrospective, (which wasn't stated on our initial application), so that anyone born in Oz, prior to that date, automatically became a citizen without the requirement that they lived there for a certain number of years.........merely being born there was enough. The kids were therefore instantly entitled to citizenship by descent and I came as dependent spouse and we were here within 6 weeks of the phone call :yes: I'm almost certain that a Commonwealth clerk would not be classed as "diplomatic service" unless they had diplomatic immunity, so it seems to me that your case rests on when your husband was born in Oz, and whether I have got my dates correct regarding the enactment of the residency rule. Hope this helps kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becontree Boy Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 As previously suggested, "Commonweath Clerk" may refer to an Australian "Civil Service" clerk. To work for the national government of Australia you generally have to be an Australian Citizen. So if your relative had this role then the omens are good. My wife had an Australian father and obtained Australian citizenship by descent a few years ago after the law was changed. Prior to this she had missed out because he had not registered her and her siblings as citizens at Australia House before they were 18 years old. Because she found out that the law has changed, all her surviving brothers and her sister now have dual Australian/British citizenship. I wonder how many other subscribers to this web site have benefited from this change of rules and have retrospectively claimed their birth right? As far as I know, there has been no publicity in the UK about the rule change, so all the information has been pretty much word of mouth. I reckon just a handful of Britons have both claimed their birthright and followed through by moving to Australia. Are there any other families out there who have benefited in this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I wonder how many other subscribers to this web site have benefited from this change of rules and have retrospectively claimed their birth right? As far as I know, there has been no publicity in the UK about the rule change, so all the information has been pretty much word of mouth. I reckon just a handful of Britons have both claimed their birthright and followed through by moving to Australia. Are there any other families out there who have benefited in this way? My hubby in his 30's applied for Citizenship by descent last year and got it in 4 weeks. His Aus parents never registered his birth when they worked and lived in the UK. I am in the middle of applying for a Spouse Visa based on his Citizenship. Though we did explore 176 etc before I found out from immi web site he could claim citizenship, much easier and cheaper for us this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Thank you you have all set my mind at ease. I am fairly sure my grandfather in law is a brit. He is a Cockney as far as I am aware. I am almost def that he wasn't there on Diplomatic immunity as when asking his Gran about why they were there they just said to visit family. I have no idea what the proceedure to get out there was back in the 50s so whether at that stage you just went or had visas who knows. But they were, in her words, permanant residents for 5 years. I cannot believe the immigration department kept your money for telling you your birthright. unbelievable, I am glad that we found out about this as the agents we spoke to were uncertain and we to would have faced that, it was already going to be costly without it being wasted. My husbands father didn't really realise he could register my husband. If only he had hey!!! but then he is a Brit as far as he is concerned. he knows his nationality is Australian, puts this on equity forms etc but he was born to British parents and lived but all of his 1 year of life in Britain. He did say that when he was younger they may have considered Oz but i wonder if he realised he had the right to just "go Home"??? I am glad they didn't otherwise I would have met him!!!! I guess the only definitive answer is to try and get the answer re the job title out of his grandparents, not easy, or just apply and see what they say. As I understand it my children cannot apply for citizenship by descent until my husband has lived there 2 years, How many years would they have to live there anyway before they could register as citizens, I recall 4 is that right? Thanks fr your help, just got to wait for father in law to send us id and permission to get his actual birth certificate, then send off for that, then send in application, they weren't lying when they said there would be a wait and hurdles to jump (I am impatient) but at least our hurdles aren't as big as others. We won't apply for my visa until we have the money to go as we know it can all happen relatively quickly this way, plus we may have to go to court with my ex re taking my eldest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontePom Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 My hubby in his 30's applied for Citizenship by descent last year and got it in 4 weeks. His Aus parents never registered his birth when they worked and lived in the UK. I am in the middle of applying for a Spouse Visa based on his Citizenship. Though we did explore 176 etc before I found out from immi web site he could claim citizenship, much easier and cheaper for us this way. This is what my wife and family are doing also. I got my citizenship by descent has my Dad was born in Australia.He came to the UK when he was 5 and I was so pleased that he made it back to his birth place (Homebush) before his death a few years back. They have their medicals today in Huddersfield... Then we wait H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Ha Ha coincidence, I have my medical tonight too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becontree Boy Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I've just remembered: there's one "gotcha" in citizenship by descent: the Australian parent must not have applied for and been granted UK citizenship. Until relatively recently, that would have removed their entitlement to Australian citizenship. In my wife's case, she had to get a letter from the Home Office confirming that her dad was never naturalised as a UK citizen. The other issue limitation, which did affect our family, is that one of our children who was over the age of 18 at the time of his mum's grant of Australian citizenship did not qualify himself for citizenship by descent even after his mum had lived for two years in Australia. This seems a little unfair and contrary to the spirit of the change in the law which was ntroduced to remedy "a breach of human rights". We may take this up with our MP when all our children visit from the UK over Christmas. Is there anyone else out there in the same boat? Could there be room for a campaign here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I've just remembered: there's one "gotcha" in citizenship by descent: the Australian parent must not have applied for and been granted UK citizenship. Until relatively recently, that would have removed their entitlement to Australian citizenship. In my wife's case, she had to get a letter from the Home Office confirming that her dad was never naturalised as a UK citizen. But if the Australian parent did apply for an gain citizenship elsewhere and later applied for their Australian citizenship back then you can still get citizenship by descent. DH's father gained US Citizenship and later, when they changed the law in Aus, he applied for and was given back his Australian citizenship so had dual. We provided both birth certificate and his citizenship certificate from the 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Right that one is confusing me slightly. My father in law never applied to be a UK citizen, however he never held an Australian or UK passport until recently, he never needed to. He applied for a UK passport in the last few years, as I understand it he automatically became a UK citizen at some point due to be able to reside in the UK legally and free of immigration on a set date (can't recall when that was) I also saw n the citizenship website that if you lost you citizenship and was unaware of it you can apply for citizenship by conferral I believe it was????? Did he actually have to apply to be a British citizen or would becoming one automatically be the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 I believe the date that my father in law would have automatically become a British Citizen was when the ruling changed on the 1st january 1983 and this is after my husbands birth, am I right in this belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becontree Boy Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I'm not sure about automatic UK citizenship. That's a new one for me. My wife's father died prior to 1983 so that factor didn't come into play for us. I like the idea of being able to claim back Australian citizenship. A very handy ace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I believe the date that my father in law would have automatically become a British Citizen was when the ruling changed on the 1st january 1983 and this is after my husbands birth, am I right in this belief? Yup sounds right. There is a difference in Automatic citizenship through birth, laws of the residing country, marriage etc and applying for it. My father in law applied for USA citizenship in the full knowledge he would lose his AUS citizenship. We just had to show he was a citizen at the time of DH birth and his new citizenship cerificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yup sounds right. There is a difference in Automatic citizenship through birth, laws of the residing country, marriage etc and applying for it. My father in law applied for USA citizenship in the full knowledge he would lose his AUS citizenship. We just had to show he was a citizen at the time of DH birth and his new citizenship cerificate. Thanks again, so does that mean that FIL was an Oz citizen at time of husbands birth s that was 76. Then lost it as he automatically became a UK citizen in 1984, but he could become a dual citizen by applying for his Oz citizenship again??? Gosh they don't make this straight forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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