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Guest Nazmataz

Complicated family issues / quals issue

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Guest Nazmataz

Hi folks,

First post so thanks for reading.

 

So to cut a long long story very short.......if it's possible, bear with me.

 

Mum is british, brother is british, both living in uk and father is british with australian citizenship. Not sure where he is right now. (Father and I not on speaking terms since 2005)

Father remarried after divorce in 1983 to my mum, has 5 children, all australian with 2nd wife.. I've always known about them but have been told that they wanted no part of our lives.

After argument with my father whilst on last visit to Perth in 2005 I decided to try to get into contact with the eldest 'half' brothers and sisters.

Eventually found the two eldest via internet, thankfully...........

To my absolute astonishment and horror, they had no idea who I was or that they had two elder brothers in Europe!!! They we're as astonished as I was. More of a shock to them. So when eventually I get to speak with their mother it turns out that my father had always maintained that WE never wanted contact with THEM!!! Go figure! I was sooo angry. They have no contact with my father and nor do they wish to, not since their mothers divorce from him 12 years ago, which seems funny as he suddenly got into contact with me at that time after a long time........ you see a pattern developing?

 

Anyway, my wife and I went to visit them in Perth to meet them for the first time in February just gone, it was so emotional, a wonderful yet surreal experience and we so wish to emmigrate there now to be with them and forge some sort of relationship.

 

My question is, does anybody know if this is possible? I have scoured the family stream for a relevant visa but have found nothing.........Is there a special circumstances route?

 

secondly, if I were to have to study or work to begin with,.......Is an NVQ level 2 in Warehousing management and distribution enough, followed by 6 years Royal Airforce experience in the same field?

 

I truly am stumped, (like the aussies right now, watching the cricket, 117-7 :) )

 

any advice would be greatly appreciated .........

 

thanks for reading........

 

Nick

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Guest bowbrummer

Nick, hope the situaiton resolves itself mate and you can get it together with your siblings. Seems your Dad has messed up big time. I am certain someone here will give you good advice as to the route you should take but here's wishing you many happy roads ahead of ya.

 

j

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Guest Nazmataz

Thankyou m8, that's nice to hear/read :P

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Hi Nick

Sorry, I cannot help with your question but I am sure one of the agents or Gill will be along shortly to offer advice.

I just wanted to say congratulations on finding your other half of the family and I hope you manage to find a way to be closer to them.

Kate


If you are depressed you are living in the past. If you are anxious you are living in the future. If you are at peace you are living in the present.

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Guest Nazmataz

Thanks Kate :spinny:It's an exciting time but sooo so frustrating.......:arghh:

 

xxx

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Guest Gollywobbler

Hello Nick

 

Welcome to Poms in Oz.

 

No Family Stream visa is available in this situation.

 

How old are you and how old is your wife, please?

 

Whtat academic or trades skills qualifications does either of you have?

 

What are your current occupations?

 

Can you "find yourselves" on the list below?

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1121i.pdf

 

We need more information from you, please.

 

secondly, if I were to have to study or work to begin with,.......Is an NVQ level 2 in Warehousing management and distribution enough, followed by 6 years Royal Airforce experience in the same field?

 

It is very unlikely to be enough for skilled independent migration. You would really be looking to try to fit the bill as a Supply & Distribution Manager 1223-11:

 

Supply and Distribution Manager 1223-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information

 

The boss of the RAF's Warehousing & Distribution team would probably be able to meet AIM's requirements for a pre migration skills assessment for this occupation but I suspect that you are not the boss of the RAF's team?

 

Migration Assessment

 

The Australian Goverbment would be much more likely to say that your occupation is that of Storeperson 7993-11, I suspect:

 

1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997

 

That is regarded as a semi skilled occupation and skilled independent migration would not be possible. Until recently, if you were able to find an employer based in, say, the Pilbara Region of WA who was willing to give you a job and sponsor you for migration it might have been do-able.

 

At the moment, though, the present Government is clamping down on migration really hard. With high unemployment in Australia the Govt line is that if an Aussie could do the job then the Aussie should be trained up to do it instead of importing an overseas migrant to do it. They gloss over the fact that somebody who is unemployed in Perth can't be forced to relocate 1,200 Kms to the Pilbara just because the workforce there needs more people and the unemployed Perthite won't go there for love nor money. It is too far from home as far as he is concerned and he can't be forced to relocate to Regional WA.

 

But let us see more information about you and your wife before we try to start to pin labels on either of you, I suggest.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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Guest Nazmataz

Gill, What a fantastic response, thankyou, that has cleared many things up already, beats me banging my head against a brick wall so to speak, trying to understand all the various routes and no go's.

I'm at work at the moment, finish in another 6 hours, I will write up a proper reply with answers to your questions when I get home......

thanks for your time .......

Nick

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Guest Nazmataz

Hi Gill,

 

Right then,....

 

I'm 34 (35 in september) and Joyce is 26. Joyce is dutch so she has followed a different educational system to myself. We're both living in the Netherlands currently.

 

For Joyce then,

Stedelijk Lyceum in Roermond, The Netherlands MAVO-4 (Think this is secondary education)

Gilde Opleidingen in Roermond, The Netherlands Nursing-IG level 3

(BBL (day release)

Training Assistant level 2 (Dutch: Helpende niveau 2)

Certificates Level 3 : Planning Care, Basic care, Prevention & GVO 1, Coordinate Care.

(make of that what you will) :biglaugh:

 

And for me.........

 

Secondary school education (9 GCSE's)

 

RSA - Computer Literacy and Information Technology

BTEC- Sport and Leisure Management (modular based)

National Vocational Qualification- Wholesaling, Warehousing and Stores Leve 2 (RAF trade training)

 

 

Ex-RAF in Supply (you guessed correctly :) not an officer

 

Joyce's mother tongue is dutch, and speaks fluent english.

My mother tongue is obviously english and my dutch is near fluent.

 

 

Joyce is currently looking for work as due to economic 'crisis' lots of people were laid off at her previous place of work where she worked in admin as a purchase assistant.

 

I currently work as a Customer Service Representative for Mercedes Benz, nothing special and am looking to move on after 4 years. So niether of us are on the SOL at this time.:no:

I would really like to do something in Sport, .....a sport physiotherapist, something i'd enjoy and a little more hands on as it were. Helping people if poss.

 

I think that if there is no chance of a sponsored working visa then I really would like to study, be it here in the Netherlands or preferably in Australia. Again, I'm not too sure what education establishments in Australia require before 'enrolment' on a bachelors, or something similar that would offer something to the Australian Goverment an enable PR.

Also as a supplemental, how do couples manage on a 20hrs a week working limit?

 

Sorry, getting too far ahead of myself............

 

If you need anything else Gill please just hollar,

 

Thanks.....

 

Nick & Joyce

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Guest Gollywobbler

Hi Nick & Joyce

 

It sounds like Joyce might be what the ASCO Code calls an "Enrolled Nurse" but whether or not she is, it is not relevant because Enrolled Nurse is not on the SOL.

 

One of you needs to train for a skill which is on the SOL and likely to remain on the SOL for a good long while yet!

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1121i.pdf

 

If one of you is going to study for an occupation which is on the SOL, and you plan to do the studying in Australia, it makes sense to get your money's worth by training for an occupation which is not only on the SOL & likely to remain so, but which is also a an occupation for which there is likely to be an on-going and increasing demand in WA, and is worth 60 points on the SOL, I suggest. Plus one which would minimise the time you would need to spend in penury on a Student visa.

 

This militates towards one of you training for one of the skilled trades in ASCO Group 4.

 

Now let us split the two of you up.

 

Nick as the Student

 

More trades skills courses lend themselves to the idea of the man being the Student than the lady, especially the ones one can study for in WA. To this end, please see this diagrammatic map of WA. It is the best for this particular job:

 

State Migration Centre » Living in the Regions

 

Please also see the WAOIDL - WA Occupations in Demand List:

 

http://www.migration.wa.gov.au/media/documents/WAOIDL_24_Aug_2009.pdf

 

It is a brand new List, published today, though I don't think (from a brief glance) that the list of occupations has changed. I think it mainly reflects changes elsewhere in the migration program.

 

WAOIDL is based on predicted future need more than on immediate need. It takes time for people to obtain skilled independent visas, move to Australia etc.

 

All the predictions are that the construction industry in WA - which is quiet at the moment in Perth Metro but brisk in some other parts of WA and the whole world is quiet at the moment - will start roaring into action in earnest from about 2011 onwards. Already people in WA are worrying that the present clampdown on skilled migration is going to cause massive man-power shortages for huge projects which have either begun or are scheduled to begin in WA from about 2010/2011 onwards. About that and most topical subjects, please see this link:

 

http://gomatildaforums.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/2941073141

 

(Gorgon is a WA Project, by the way. Current predictions are that Gorgon alone will need a workforce of 10,000 and since the Gorgon Project Operations HQ is in Karratha, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that 10,000 Perthites will head for Gorgon when Woodside are already struggling to get even 2,000 at a time in the general direction of Karratha. 50% of Woodside's current workforce are being flown in from Brisbane because QLD is too quiet at present. Tourism seems to be a Main Idea for kick-starting QLD. If it works, the QLD workforce won't traipse to WA for the sake of a shekel. Google Hamilton Island + Queensland and find out about The Best Job In The World! It is QLD Tourism's brainchild and it might work - it is clever, offbeat and catchy, so it might work.)

 

OK - let us run with the construction industry in the meanwhile. What could Nick study for in WA?

 

Courses

 

STT are based in Cannington, which is south of the river (SOR) in Perth Metro. If you fancy yourself as a Bricklayer, a friend of mine is one of the Bricklaying tutors at STT. I can give you a direct e-mail address for him plus a direct dial phone number if you wish.

 

Alternatively, Landscape Gardening is regarded as being part of the Construction Industry in Oz. You could do that at the TAFE in Murdoch, also SOR.

 

Education and Training International WA | Home

 

There is also a massive demand for both Pastry Chefs and Bakers. You could study for one or other of those at the Bentley Campus of TAFE WA.

 

Joyce as the Student

 

Bakery or Patisserie, as above.

 

General Gardening, possibly (but the demand for that is likely to remain in the Regions.) Ideally you want something which will be in State-wide demand when you have completed your studies because when you have done that you will want State sponsorship from WA, preferably for immediate Permanent Residency.

 

Although you could do Hairdressing, my advice is "Don't and don't do commercial cookery either." There have been allegations of serious migration frauds involving privately owned colleges in the Eastern States recently, which have brought both subjects into deep disrepute.

 

The actual frauds alleged involve provision of fake documentation in connection with completing various stages of the Education in Oz process. Both subjects are easy to teach and easy to learn. However the gist is that the whole thing has allegedly become thoroughly corrupt in some quarters. I've seen claims in the press alleging "hairdressing" colleges that don't possess either hairdressing facilities or equpment, "cookery colleges" that don't contain kitchens etc and anyway the Students are alleged to have no interest in learning the subjects because all they want is permanent residency visas for Oz.

 

There are NO allegations that any of the privately owned colleges in WA are involved with any rackets but the whole thing is such dynamite politically that the two subjects are now tainted by the scandals.

 

I don't know what else Joyce could study in WA. I know a man who does, though!

 

Study Options: Free student advice for Australia or New Zealand

 

Stefan Watts of Study Options in London is the chap to ask about the whole Student idea. He does not have to charge the candidates anything because the colleges pay him a commission for enrolling the Student on the particular course. There is much to be said for leaving the legwork to him, since it costs you nothing to leave him doing it for you. He gives accurate, commonsense, worthwhile advice.

 

Stefan is 100% honest. Many others of his ilk are not, so be warned!

 

Another search tool is the CRICOS website:

 

The Australian Commonwealth Register of Institutions and Courses for Overseas Students (CRICOS)

 

DON'T try to tell it what qualification you want. Just select WA and then focus on what you might like to study, based on WAOIDL and on the points for the occupation as shown on the SOL. I coulnd't get the CRICOS database to tell me anything beyond gibberish until I sussed that trying to tell it the qualification was what was causing the problem!

 

With any of the trades skills occupations, the study course in Oz must last for 2 years in total in theory - but 2 years includes College vacations. So - let us say - you want to get an AQF III in Landscape Gardening. The AFF II takes one semester (roughly 16 weeks.) Semester 2 takes you to AQF III. To make the course of study last for 2 years, you actually end up with a Diploma in Land Conservation and Management, hence it is not worth trying to tell the CRICOS search tool which qualification you want.

 

What you will learn from the CRICOS site is that if you are determined to study a particular subject, there might only be one or two colleges in Australia which have CRICOS approval to teach the subject to International Students. For instance if you want to become a Painter & Decorator, you would have to go to Skills Tech in Brisbane. If you want to become a Butcher, you would have to go to the TAFE in Adelaide.

 

If you want to do anything involving road vehicles (large or small) the only courses are in VIC and again at Skills Tech in Brisbane.

 

And should Nick want to become a Welder, Boilermaker or similar - stay in the Netherlands because International Students can't learn the Engineering Trades in Australia at all. Astonishing, but true. If you get stuck, get Stefan to supply a list of your choices in WA.

 

Whatever you study, you don't only need to do the 2 year qualifying course and to get the AQF III. Trades Recognition Australia become involved at the pre-migration to Oz stage later on. They require an additional 900 hours of paid work experience in the field being studied, over and above any practial work experience provided as part of the course.

 

Let us say that Nick decides to become a Bricklayer. STT are said to be excellent where the 900 hours is concerned. They have a lot of construction industry contacts in and around Perth sp they can help to ensure the essential 900 hours.

 

They also have a chap who is able to help the students to find ordinary work which helps to pay for the next semester of the course (you pay for one semester at a time up front) and to pay the general bills.

 

Student visas are here:

 

Students - Visas & Immigration

 

Neither of you can start work until the course starts. From that day onwards, the Student can work for 20 hours a week during the college semesters. S/he can work for unlimited hours during the college vacations. Stefan could tell you how much out of 52 weeks is college vacation time in WA. The Student's partner can work for 20 hours a week but cannot work extra hours during the vacations.

 

How affordable is the idea? That depends. Some friends of mine have recently moved to Perth. He is a Painter & Decorator who has recently obtained Permanent Residency but it will be a struggle for him whilst he gets started in Perth. A lot of the companies insist on 2 years of local experience, which he does not have yet, doesn't have any Relevant Mates yet etc. Mateship counts for a lot with finding work in WA. He is doing whatever he can get and it is not adding up to 40 hours a week or anything like it as yet.

 

He and his GF have not been together for long enough for her to be included on his visa, so she has just started a Student course. She is studying Western Harbal Medicine or something, at a college which is not far from the Perth CBD. To that end they have rented a one bedroom flat in West Leederville. I think the rent is about $120 a week - I don't know the amount of the rates, water rates, gas, electricity etc. They like this flat. It is quite close to the girl's College so they bought her a bike. They bought a cheap old car between them as well. They don't regard it as "a tiny flat." It is a five minute walk to a good pub, apparently, and a 10 minute drive from City Beach.

 

As far as they are concerned the flat is just a base camp. They are 30 & 33 respectively, with no children. It is winter in Perth at present and there has been a lot of rain, plus it has been quite chilly in the evenings. In the initial settling in period the rain has probably been no hindrance. In spring, summer & autumn, how much time would you spend cooped up in asmall upstairs flat when there is a popular beach 10 minutes from home and loads of other new places to see not much further away? How well does your relationship work in terms of helping each other financially and jollying each other along? How would Joyce cope thousands of miles from family and friends, with only you for moral support and a hug? A holiday is nothing like the Real Thing - don't kid yourselves about that.

 

Which one of you should be the Student? In terms of your ages, definitely Joyce in the short term. The main applicant's age is one of the factors in the points test for skilled independent migration to Oz later on. (Which is a major crowd-puller for justifying studying in Oz, after all.) The age scale for the Points test is here:

 

Skilled – Independent (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 175)

 

As against that, short term points are not necessarily long term gain. In the long run, is Nick interested in take-home pay of $2,200 a week after all taxes etc? A friend of a friend is a Bricklayer who lives in Perth. He is involved with building houses in Karratha in connection with the Woodside LNG plant project on the Burrup peninsula, close to Karratha:

 

Woodside

 

Click on the links in the menu on the left and get the gist of what is happening. Gorgon is similar only based on Barrow Island about 100kms offshore from Karratha, plus Woodside is a piffling $12 billion but Gorgon is worth $50 billion.)

 

The Brickie is doing a FIFO roster (Fly in, Fly Out.) He lives at the Gap Ridge accommodation village for 4 weeks out of 5 (near Karratha.) He does not get paid for the 5th week - it is treated as casual work. But his flights are paid for him, his accommodation, bed linen and 3 square meals a day all cost him nothing at Gap Ridge (and they do feed them astoundingly well.)

 

Another friend is involved with the marine side of the project so he spends time on the specialist work vessels He is a specialist engineer involved with anchoring the offshore gas rig firmly into place so ensure that it will not go AWOL in a cyclone. He says the Brickie is not exaggerating about his take home pay - the houses in Karratha (paid for by Woodside as part of the overall deal) are being built to cyclone specifications. Gorgon will have to pay for a load more houses in and near Karratha, it seems to me.

 

Deckhands are considered to be just about semi-skilled but mostly they tend to be unskilled gorillas. There are loads of vessels sculling around on the 'oggin in connection with the Burrup rig - pipe layers, supply boats, cable layers etc - all specialist vessels of one type or another. The deckies are on $60 an hour before deductions and tax. Seemingly not enough Perthites are willing to be deckies so the deckies are mostly on FIFO from Brisbane. The deckies are doing 12 hour shifts. They don't spend 12 hours on deck. They tend to be involved in ntense activity for shorter periods at a stretch but they are stuck on a boat, miles offshore, floating on ocean which looks inviting but is infested with meat-eating sharks - so $60 an hour it is, then. Fair dinkum.

 

As Students your earning potential is very limited. People who are only available for 20 hours a week are not likely to be offered highly paid work. It depends whether you are prepared to struggle for probably 3 years in pursuit o gain later.

 

In Perth (where my sister lives) Joyce could probably find work with Silver Chain for 20 hours a week:

 

Welcome to Silver Chain - Silverchain

 

My sister lives in Perth and works for Silver Chain, looking after the elderly in their own homes. Her own children are 12 & 15 and where they live is semi-rural (ie no buses and 4kms from the nearest train station) so she is the kids' chauffeur. She is actually an expert on Wool, which is still quite a significant expert though nothing like as much as the mining, gas etc nowadays.

 

For the moment Silver Chain suits her because she can fit the hours round the children. She says the basic pay is $20 an hour before deductions. Sister says you can get $25 an hour basic for cleaning people's houses in the private sector but she does not think it worth the extra. Silver Chain set the standard for what they do for the elderly and the elderly are grateful for the help, mature in outlook because they have had kids of their own, understand if visit imes have to be rearranged etc. She says that with private homeowners, some of them expect the crown jewels and she isn't prepared to put up with women who think they can slave drive and push other people around.

 

I don't know of an equivalent ocupation for a man if Joyce were to be the Student and Nick just wanted 20 hours a week of regular, relevant work.

 

If you decide to re-train closer to home, you will need to aim for formal qualifications which are at least equivalent to the relevant Aussie qualfication for the occupation. For that, use the ASRI List:

 

A-Z Occupations List - Australian Skills Recognition Information

 

To work out what is equivalent and what isn't, you need the Country Education Profile for the Netherlands:

 

Country Education Profiles

 

With a trade skill, you would need to prove at least 900 hours of formal classroom tuition plus not less than 4 years of on-the-job training.

 

That is enough to give you the outline for now. How much help, work-leads etc do you think your rellies in Perth might be able to provide?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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Guest Nazmataz

Hi Gill,

Wow, that's alot of info........so much respect for your time and effort!

I'll read this and digest the info, speak with Joyce and then reply :)

 

Thankyou

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