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Guest bebac30

For agents - hidden rulls???

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Guest bebac30

Please i need advice from agents about this email:

 

"I am an agent specialising in Skilled Migration. DIAC case officers

have told us directly that the 12 months work experience is only valid

after a person is deemed skilled. You are not deemed skilled by ACS

until you have a degree (major in IT) plus 4 years WE; degree (minor

in IT) plus 6 years experience; Diploma (IT) plus 6 years experience;

or Eight year WE without formal qualification. You may check the ACS

website for this.

 

This is the case for several occuaptions. For example, a Research and

Development Manager is not deemed skilled until he/she has a degree

plus 5 years work experience. This comes from the ASCO, and DIAC

follows the ASCO (changing to ANZSCO this year).

 

DIAC only count work experience after you are deemed skilled. This is

not set out on their website or in the regulations. However it is set

out in their policy (Procedures Advice Manual). In any cases like this

it is very wise to seek the assistance of an expert as it is very easy

to get it wrong."

 

Is this really true or just want to get money? When i asked Vetassess about this they told me that ASRI is used for other purposes not just migration. Therefore, i got positive assessment for R&D Manager, but now i realized that i could been refused from DIAC because i do not have 5 yrs relevant work experience?!

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Guest proud2beaussie

Hi Bebac,

I am always suspicious of agents who promote themselves via email however I don't know enough about visas to say whether their advice about work experience is accurate or not .

I would advise caution before having anything to do with the agent .

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Guest bebac30

Thanks, but his email is really disturbing. For sure i will not use him.

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Guest proud2beaussie

If you are at all concerned I suggest you send an email to Gill and ask her for her advice,I'm sure she will be able to put your mind at rest.

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Guest bebac30

I will, thanks

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Guest Gollywobbler

Hi Bebac

 

My reaction is as follows:

 

I am an agent specialising in Skilled Migration.

 

Are you? Why are you pestering me, though?

 

DIAC case officers have told us directly that the 12 months work experience is only valid after a person is deemed skilled.

 

Whilst explaining how you managed to screw up an application on behalf of a client of yours? Otherwise, where and why did the alleged encounter between yourself and the DIAC staff allegedly take place?

 

You may check the ACS website for this.

 

Might be a good idea if one does not have but would need a skills assessment from the ACS. Certainly a brainier idea than trusting this pillock would seem to be, anyway. Do you require a skills assessment from the ACS, though? If yes, I suggest following the pillock's advice and consulting the ACS website yourself.

 

This is the case for several occuaptions. For example, a Research and

Development Manager is not deemed skilled until he/she has a degree

plus 5 years work experience. This comes from the ASCO, and DIAC

follows the ASCO (changing to ANZSCO this year).

 

How interesting. Are you a Research & Development Manager, Bebac? If not then this information does not strike me as being relevant to you? (Apart from the fact that it is also inaccurate 'advice'.)

 

DIAC only count work experience after you are deemed skilled.

 

Stone the crows! Ya don't say? Well, shiver me timbers! What an astonishing revelation.

 

Why would they consider unskilled experience to be relevant, though?

 

This is not set out on their website or in the regulations.

Yes it is. In both. A less than good command of English might make the relevant passages difficult to find, though.

 

However it is set out in their policy (Procedures Advice Manual). In any cases like this it is very wise to seek the assistance of an expert as it is very easy

to get it wrong."

 

It is altogether wiser NOT to entrust one's affairs to a clown in my experience.

 

Is this really true or just want to get money?

 

The latter.

 

Delete the e-mail, hon, and block the sender, I would suggest.

 

:hug:

 

Gill

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Guest bebac30

Thanks a lot Gill.

 

Yes, i got positive skill assessment from Vetassess for R&D Manager. I have only 2 yrs work experience in nominated occupation and 2yrs that i might prove as relevant. Since i am not native english speaker (IELTS results will show where i am for four days) i really need opinion from someone who can read between lines and understand DiAC`s sometimes confused information.

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Guest bebac30

 

 

Yes it is. In both. A less than good command of English might make the relevant passages difficult to find, though.

 

 

 

Does this below (from immi/ASRI) mean that if i got positive skill assessment DIAC cannot take it as invalid as a lack of experience of 5yrs?

 

Skill level

The entry requirement for this occupation is a bachelor degree or higher qualification and at least 5 years relevant experience.

Note: If you are seeking a skills assessment for skilled migration purposes, different skill level requirements may apply. For information on skills assessment, see the relevant skills assessing authority below.

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Guest Jamie Smith

Hi Gill

 

it appears that Bebac approached the agent, else the chance of the agent initiating talking about the correct occupation is very slim.

 

The agent's advice might be the best advice available in Bebac's country for the amount that Bebac is prepared to pay, such is the migration industry.

 

Equally, the relatively gentle sales pitch for a non-English country might be a positive sign for using that agent in that country.

 

But don't let that stop you from dining out...not everyone was born in an English speaking country or can afford professional advice. Not every forum gets it right either.

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Hi Gill

 

it appears that Bebac approached the agent, else the chance of the agent initiating talking about the correct occupation is very slim.

 

The agent's advice might be the best advice available in Bebac's country for the amount that Bebac is prepared to pay, such is the migration industry.

 

Equally, the relatively gentle sales pitch for a non-English country might be a positive sign for using that agent in that country.

 

But don't let that stop you from dining out...not everyone was born in an English speaking country or can afford professional advice. Not every forum gets it right either.

 

Jamie can i ask why you address your posts to Gill in this condescending manner ? it has gone on for days now but to be honest is starting to look pathetic, especially coming from agents.

 

Why couldn't you just type a reply to Bebac with your advice ? after all he/she is active on this thread.

If you have an issue with Gill please can you use the private message system and keep it off the boards.

Cal x


If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place...

If you get a chance,take it, If it changes your life,let it. Nobody said it would be easy they just said it would be worth it...

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Cal,

 

A quick note: Jamie isn't a migration agent.

 

Best regards.


Managing Director, Go Matilda Visas - www.gomatilda.com

Registered Migration Agent Number 0102534; Registered Tax Agent (Australia)

Chartered Accountant (UK, and Australia)

T - 023 81 66 11 55 (UK) or 03 9935 2929 (Australia)

E - alan.collett@gomatilda.com and acollett@bdhtax.com

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Guest Jamie Smith

Gday Cal

 

I was highlighting the fact that the industry has a different character in different countries, and assumptions for how things are and how things operate based on UK model do not always carry over. A very good agent in India might only be as good as a medium one elsewheres, but sometimes can be better. The standards of expectation of the client are different too.

 

It is altogether wiser NOT to entrust one's affairs to a clown in my experience.
Certainly a brainier idea than trusting this pillock would seem to be, anyway.
Stone the crows! Ya don't say? Well, shiver me timbers! What an astonishing revelation.
I called that "dining out". You called my reply condescending. Ok, that's one opinion

 

But I think you need to be fair.

 

I didn't attack Gill, I just tried to highlight that her assumptions were probably wrong.

 

It rang bells with me that an unknown (and I think Indian) agent was being called a pillock without the commentator knowing the full story or trying to get another viewpoint.

 

I thought the comments about the agent were patronising and I'd comment on it regardless of the author. Gill just happens to make most of the comments I disagree with. We have some lively discussions in PMs too.

 

I'm not an agent. However I've worked with them for 10 years, 8 years before Gill joined these forums. I don't claim to know as much about visas as Gilla and many others do, but I do understand the industry fairly well and have been on Govt run policy discussion groups at times.

 

Speaking out is good for what we do.

 

We have to challenge State Govt officials and DIAC from time to time over business issues. My apologies if my distant bolshie Irish ancestors come to the forums a bit too often.

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Guest Gollywobbler

Hi Bebac

 

Please just ignore Jamie Smith's efforts to hijack your thread for his own hobby horse.

 

You are getting into several muddles with this, hon. You do need decent advice but NOT from somebody who is trying to thrust himself down your throat in the deplorable and unprofessional fashion revealed by the e-mail you have received.

 

I would recommend Nigel Dobbie in Sydney. He is a solicitor as well as a migration agent and he does not mind whether you choose him or not. He would not DREAM of trying to push and hustle you into intructing him and he would not DREAM of trying to frighten you either. His attitude is both honest and properly professional, plus his skill level would knock the other one's "skills" into a cocked hat, I feel sure:

 

Dobbie and Devine Immigration Lawyers Pty Ltd

 

Dobbie and Devine Immigration Lawyers Pty Ltd

 

He will answer a quick enquiry for free or just ring him up if you prefer. You will be assured of getting accurate advice, delivered with respect for yourself.

 

Now, first the occupation:

 

Research and Development Manager 1299-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information

 

Vetassess merely check your academic qualifications. You have a degree which is or is the overseas equivalent of an Aussie bachelors degree or higher. Vetassess will say whatever you like in your skills assessment certificate. They do not consider your CV. It is also perfectly legitimate for you to nominate a 50 point occupation in your skils assessment and then to nominate a 40 point occupation for your visa application. You would still be able to claim 50 points instead of 40.

 

However you would NOT get a visa based on the idea that you are an R&D Manager because you are not. This is what you have told us about your actual occupation in an earlier thread:

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/61530-bachelor-international-business-asco-code.html

 

Bachelor of International business finished 4 years ago; 30 years old.

I work currently in Logistics department in Bosch and responsible for supply chain process. Since i live in non-EU country we deal with customs procedure (duty, taxes), distribution, customers queries, warehousing, analyses, monitoring our forwarding agents, reporting to regional HQ and also legal reports to state authorities. Also, we have had 2 projects last year in business development in two neighbors counties. I hope i have explained enough my duties and responsibilities. This position i held for 2 years. Previous 1,5 y i worked also in an international company as financial assistant.

 

 

 

Your application to VIC for State Sponsorship has failed because they can see from you CV that you are not an R&D Manager. The rejection was inevitable but it is a good thing that it happened because it has stopped you before you could waste $2,525 on a futile visa application to DIAC.

 

Do you have any relations in Australia who could sponsor you for a visa? If so, whereabouts do they live and how closely related to you are they, please?

 

Going back to your current occupation, you have described what the Logistics Department of Bosch does. You have NOT described what your own actual job is within this Department. What is your own role - exactly - please? What is your job title and please give me examples of 6 of the tasks which it is your specific responsibility to deal with during the average working month. Who do you report to and who reports to you? I need a clearer picture of where you are in the Logistics Department of Bosch.

 

For the moment, please forget about State Sponsorship or about trying to fast track anything. The important thing is this:-

 

When you apply for your visa, you will *nominate* an occupation. That is, you will tell DIAC what you believe your occupation is and you will describe your actual work-duties. DIAC will consider what you and Bosch say about your work duties. Your Case Officer will then consult the ASCO Code in order to determine what your actual occupation is. The ASCO Code is here:

 

1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997=

 

DIAC will apply a high standard of scrutiny to this part. They will be picky and fussy. What is your country of origin, please, Bebac? If you are from a high risk country we might as well factor that in now.

 

What you have to be wary of is this. The first thing you have told us about what the Logistics Deparment of Bosch does is that there is a lot of involvement with Customs. So the CO will look to see whether your work duties reveal that you are a specialist Clerk within ASCO minor group 615:

 

1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997

 

Out of the possible choices on the link above, 6152 seems the most likely sub-group.

 

1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997

 

If the CO finds that your actual occupation is one within ASCO Group 6 then your visa application would be refused because the only occupations on the SOL are some of the ones within ASCO Groups 1 to 4. Being vastly over-qualified for a clerical job is irrelevant. A clerical job might be your job at the minute. If so, DIAC will not fool around. They will simply say, "No." So there is no mileage in fibbing to yourself about this because the CO will not fib to him or herself.

 

However, another possibility is that you are not a lowly Clerk but at this stage only you know the truth about what you actually do for a living.

 

What I would like to be able to say is that you are a Supply & Distribution Manager 1223-11. For sure, the boss of the Logistics Department of Bosch in your country definitely is a Supply & Distribution Manager 1223-11. The question is, "Are you?"

 

Potentially the occupation is worth 60 points and State Sponsorship would be possible. However first you would have to convince the Australian Institute of Management of your senior, specialist manager role within Bosch and the AIM are even more exacting than DIAC:

 

Supply and Distribution Manager 1223-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information

 

Migration Assessment

 

Read the criteria for a Manager, please, carefully:

 

Criteria for a Manager for the Purpose of Migration

 

Bachelor of International business

 

Your degree. I have no idea what the course content was because you have not said. The AIM say this:

 

The years of experience may be reduced if the applicant has qualifications in management studies or business administration assessed as comparable to an Australian Bachelor, Post Graduate or Master degree, or in a discipline relevant to the field in which the manager is working.

 

You have a degree. The bit in italics is what matters. We know that your degree is OK because Vetassess use the same CEP that the AIM are describing. The last part of the section refers to somebody with something like a Diploma in Suppy & Distribution. You can ignore that because your own qualification is at a much higher level.

 

It is your call, Bebac. It will also be your money at risk if you decide to ask AIM to assess you as a Supply & Distribution Manager. Their fee is $360, which is not too bad.

 

If you can convince AIM, the rest would be fairly straightforward. South Australia is willing to consider sponsoring Supply & Distribution Managers for the subclass 475 regional provisional visa:

 

Make The Move :: General skilled migration

 

Please click on the link for the list for the subclass 475 visa. The file does not open with a URL at the top.

 

If AIM accept you and then SA also accept you, DIAC can't really argue because if the AIM are happy that you are a Supply & Distribution Manager then that is what you must be. DIAC can't turn to a neurosurgeon and tell him, "I don't think you do brain surgery, buddy." The same would be true in this case as well.

 

The visa is here:

 

Skilled – Regional Sponsored (Provisional) Visa (Subclass 475)

 

Think about it all carefully.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

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Guest bebac30

 

When you apply for your visa, you will *nominate* an occupation. That is, you will tell DIAC what you believe your occupation is and you will describe your actual work-duties. DIAC will consider what you and Bosch say about your work duties. Your Case Officer will then consult the ASCO Code in order to determine what your actual occupation is. The ASCO Code is here:

 

1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997=

 

DIAC will apply a high standard of scrutiny to this part. They will be picky and fussy. What is your country of origin, please, Bebac? If you are from a high risk country we might as well factor that in now.

 

Gill

 

First of all, thanks Gill.

 

Now i am very, very confused.

My point test is:

1. Age (25 points)

2. English (15 or 25 points)

3. Community language (5 points)

4. Nominated occupation (50 points)

On immi website:

 

"Evidence to attach to your application:

 

To ensure that your application is complete, and to help us process your application more quickly, you must attach:

 

  • a certified copy of a completed skills assessment document which confirms that your skills have been assessed as suitable for your nominated occupation

  • one of the following:

    • a certified copy of your post-secondary qualifications, such as your degree or diploma certificate and your transcripts or mark sheets

    • certified copies of your work references provided by your employers that detail the position/s you held and the duties you performed (if you have worked in an occupation where substantial work experience may be accepted instead of post-secondary qualifications). "

     

     

5. Recent work experience (no points awarded)

" This requirement is separate to the need to have your skills assessed as suitable for your nominated occupation before you apply.

 

You must provide evidence that you have been in paid employment in a skilled

occupation on the SOL (form 1121i Skilled Occupation List (SOL) and Employer Nomination Scheme Occupation List (ENSOL)) for at least 12 months in the 24 months immediately before applying. This period of employment must have been accrued when you were in the workplace. It does not include any extended paid leave such as maternity or other family leave."

 

 

 

With this basic requirements i will gain at least 100 points that i need for 176 visa or regional visa. Maybe i am missing something but i am not sure what. If i do not claim specific work experence in which section i should attach resume?! I know that i need employment reference for recent work experience and pay slips but as i undersand nothing more. Please tell me what part i am missing?!

 

Yes, i am from high risk country, but it is only relevant for visa time processing not for anything else.

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Guest Jamie Smith

Gday Bebac

 

You have been going several months with your case, it must be like a roller coaster for you.

 

From what I can see of your posts over several months, you're getting good advice from people like Westly Russell but making a mess in how you put things together.

 

You might like to have closer contact with Westly, or you might like to contact a registered agent ()RMA) nearer to you so you can arrange a consultation an d discuss things face to face.

 

There are several Registered agents in India who must follow Australian rules and regulations like Westly.

 

MARA - List of registered migration agents

 

Download each of the 4 pdfs and use the search function to look for the city nearest you. Make a note of all the agents and select three.

 

Check the first registration date of the agent's 7-digit registration number, the first two digits are the year of first registration eg 02, and this indicates how many years they have been in business.

 

Check here to make sure they have never been found guilty of poor behaviour as an agent: MARA - Sanction Decisions

 

Perhaps elimiate those who mainly do education agent work, and stay with agents who mainly do skileld migration. Ask the office manager if the RMA is in the office for a meeting, as many will have a deputy in India and will only visit occasionally, you want to talk to the registered agent face to face.

 

Make sure you get a copy of a contract, with fees and complaints systems listed.

 

And get a second opinion. Shop around until you feel comfortable with the agent and their staff.

 

Ask to see their MARA registration certificate, it should have their photo on it, make sure you get a copy of the IRMAP from the agent, this tells you about your client rights. Ask to see their happy customer letters and check that they are not the same style and tone (meaning not written by agent employees!)

 

Get them to write down your options so you can refer to them later.

 

This might cost you a little money for a consultation, but the investment will be repaid with clearer understanding of what you can do, and whether or not you should do the sponsorship or visa application yourself. You don't have to use an agent for the whole process, but it does sound like you need some specific advice from someone who can sight your documents and advise you properly.

 

Free advice like these forums can be confusing due to technical words, short explanations and the lack of quick discussion that goes on to clarify any one point.

 

If you can't find anyone suitable, have another look at Westly's earlier mesage and make contact with him.

 

Then come back online if you still need help.

 

All the best.

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Guest Gollywobbler

Jamie

 

Is Bebac in India? Do you know so for sure?

 

Gill

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Guest bebac30

Thanks both. I am from Serbia, exYU, Europe

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Guest Gollywobbler
Thanks both. I am from Serbia, exYU, Europe

 

:biglaugh::biglaugh:

 

An agent in India would doubtless be of great use to you, then, Bebac!

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Guest Gollywobbler
First of all, thanks Gill.

 

Now i am very, very confused.

My point test is:

1. Age (25 points)

2. English (15 or 25 points)

3. Community language (5 points)

4. Nominated occupation (50 points)

On immi website:

 

"Evidence to attach to your application:

 

 

To ensure that your application is complete, and to help us process your application more quickly, you must attach:

 

  • a certified copy of a completed skills assessment document which confirms that your skills have been assessed as suitable for your nominated occupation

  • one of the following:

    • a certified copy of your post-secondary qualifications, such as your degree or diploma certificate and your transcripts or mark sheets

    • certified copies of your work references provided by your employers that detail the position/s you held and the duties you performed (if you have worked in an occupation where substantial work experience may be accepted instead of post-secondary qualifications). "

     

     

5. Recent work experience (no points awarded)

" This requirement is separate to the need to have your skills assessed as suitable for your nominated occupation before you apply.

 

You must provide evidence that you have been in paid employment in a skilled

 

 

 

occupation on the SOL (form 1121i

Skilled Occupation List (SOL) and Employer Nomination Scheme Occupation List (ENSOL)) for at least 12 months in the 24 months immediately before applying. This period of employment must have been accrued when you were in the workplace. It does not include any extended paid leave such as maternity or other family leave."

With this basic requirements i will gain at least 100 points that i need for 176 visa or regional visa. Maybe i am missing something but i am not sure what. If i do not claim specific work experence in which section i should attach resume?! I know that i need employment reference for recent work experience and pay slips but as i undersand nothing more. Please tell me what part i am missing?!

 

Yes, i am from high risk country, but it is only relevant for visa time processing not for anything else.

 

Hi again Bebac

 

My love, you are jumping the gun. First of all we have to decide:

 

1. Which occupation could you usefully nominate for your skills assessment?

 

2. Which occupation would be a viable nomination for your visa application?

 

3. Can we somehow get State Sponsorship for you as well?

 

How senior is your current role in your current job, please?

 

That is the correct place to start with trying to untangle your situation.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

 

 

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Jamie can i ask why you address your posts to Gill in this condescending manner ? it has gone on for days now but to be honest is starting to look pathetic, especially coming from agents.

 

Why couldn't you just type a reply to Bebac with your advice ? after all he/she is active on this thread.

If you have an issue with Gill please can you use the private message system and keep it off the boards.

Cal x

 

 

Cal, just a minor point in defence of our resident and respected agents on PIO,

Mr Smith is not...as far as i can see from the websites he promotes.. a registered immigration agent.

 

In view of the recent ruckass with regard agents and their methods of self promotion and Tims reminders of forum rules, I just thought it better not to add further pressure on the MARA registered immigration agents.

 

I am sure that Mr Smith in his support role to registered agents and/or clients has lots to offer the members of PIO and perhaps like me at times, the tone of his posts could possibly be misunderstood.

 

I feel sure Mr Smith is well aware of Gill,s professional status and her vast knowledge of the various visa applications and related questions posted on PIO and her dedication to help and offer impartial advice or suggestions, especially to the newbies coming online who are so vulnerable, not knowing who to trust.

 

L.L.

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Gday Bebac

 

You have been going several months with your case, it must be like a roller coaster for you.

 

From what I can see of your posts over several months, you're getting good advice from people like Westly Russell but making a mess in how you put things together.

 

You might like to have closer contact with Westly, or you might like to contact a registered agent ()RMA) nearer to you so you can arrange a consultation an d discuss things face to face.

 

There are several Registered agents in India who must follow Australian rules and regulations like Westly.

 

MARA - List of registered migration agents

 

Download each of the 4 pdfs and use the search function to look for the city nearest you. Make a note of all the agents and select three.

 

Check the first registration date of the agent's 7-digit registration number, the first two digits are the year of first registration eg 02, and this indicates how many years they have been in business.

 

Check here to make sure they have never been found guilty of poor behaviour as an agent: MARA - Sanction Decisions

 

Perhaps elimiate those who mainly do education agent work, and stay with agents who mainly do skileld migration. Ask the office manager if the RMA is in the office for a meeting, as many will have a deputy in India and will only visit occasionally, you want to talk to the registered agent face to face.

 

Make sure you get a copy of a contract, with fees and complaints systems listed.

 

And get a second opinion. Shop around until you feel comfortable with the agent and their staff.

 

Ask to see their MARA registration certificate, it should have their photo on it, make sure you get a copy of the IRMAP from the agent, this tells you about your client rights. Ask to see their happy customer letters and check that they are not the same style and tone (meaning not written by agent employees!)

 

Get them to write down your options so you can refer to them later.

 

This might cost you a little money for a consultation, but the investment will be repaid with clearer understanding of what you can do, and whether or not you should do the sponsorship or visa application yourself. You don't have to use an agent for the whole process, but it does sound like you need some specific advice from someone who can sight your documents and advise you properly.

 

Free advice like these forums can be confusing due to technical words, short explanations and the lack of quick discussion that goes on to clarify any one point.

 

If you can't find anyone suitable, have another look at Westly's earlier mesage and make contact with him.

 

Then come back online if you still need help.

 

All the best.

 

 

Hi Jamie,

 

Reading your post here, I just wondered if - with respect - it may have been wiser not to usethe agents name and instead use "the agent you are with", " your agent" etc,.

 

I have the attension span of a 20 year old altziemic goldfish and I could easily miscontrue you opening comments about making a mess of things - into thinking you meant the agent involved made a mess of things.

 

As youknow over the last weekend there has beena certain amount of agent related ruckas going on and Tim had posted a reminder about the forum T & C.

 

Now, I admit, as a participant, I may be perhaps over re-acting. However, I have spent some time going through a raft of old posts and in teh main, none of us used agents names in our post. Going through the process myself, I never used our agents name and if asked after I said he was and is brilliant at his job, I would email or PM the reply.

 

Its seems of late as the immigration industry is having problems that an element of "promotion" has crept in..and as Tim has conditionally allowed agents to use the forum, most act in a proper and propfessional manner.

 

I am saddened to read this from you though:-

Free advice like these forums can be confusing due to technical words, short explanations and the lack of quick discussion that goes on to clarify any one point.

 

I dont think this is being fair to people like Gill or the other who take time and great effort to help and assist.

Agents can - and seeming from for your post are - confusing this poster - which is why he/she is seeking advice.

As a young sales trainee long ago before Adam started shaving, my mentor said..First Rule of Sales..Never knock the opposition, cos they may be doing a bloody good job for the customer you are with..and that is like saying to the buyer - he's an idiot and unable to do his job.

 

Not a critisism, just a thought and also maybe a good idea in as much as anybody having a bad time after being "referred", may just include the referrer in a whinge session on day.

Sometimes its better as a service providing independant, to keep all agents - and others who you may need one day - on your side.

 

Regards

 

L.L.

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Guest Jamie Smith

Gday LL

 

Thanks for the message.

 

I thought it read that Westley offered advice but Bebac was then getting it confused.

 

I wasn't bagging Westly. I have to carefully select the agents I want to work with, a few of them I've had to drop for various reasons including ethics and client management. I don't want my reputation with State Govts being sallied by a greedy few.

 

Therefore I don't pitch myself to all and sundry, I prefer to do business direct with agents but I usually wait until I've met them or had some exchange to be able to gauge their competencies.

 

I give Gill credit for her knowledge of visa issues and occasional willingness to refer across to an agent but she also offers wrong, unfair and inconsistent advice that attracts my attention at times, generally related to how the industry works or agent businesses operate (which impacts on how they deal with clients).

 

As an internet user since the early 90s I don't mind a good flame war but as others find them irksome I'll try to keep it down.

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Guest JoanneHattersley

Hit the wrong button Jamie! I didnt edit your post at all!

 

However if you have `issues` with Gill you should talk personally rather than on the open forum

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Gday LL

 

Thanks for the message.

 

I thought it read that Westley offered advice but Bebac was then getting it confused.

 

I wasn't bagging Westly. I have to carefully select the agents I want to work with, a few of them I've had to drop for various reasons including ethics and client management. I don't want my reputation with State Govts being sallied by a greedy few.

 

Therefore I don't pitch myself to all and sundry, I prefer to do business direct with agents but I usually wait until I've met them or had some exchange to be able to gauge their competencies.

 

I give Gill credit for her knowledge of visa issues and occasional willingness to refer across to an agent but she also offers wrong, unfair and inconsistent advice that attracts my attention at times, generally related to how the industry works or agent businesses operate (which impacts on how they deal with clients).

 

As an internet user since the early 90s I don't mind a good flame war but as others find them irksome I'll try to keep it down.

 

Hi,

 

I see what you mean about replies on forums being confusing, if you again read my second para, it makes it clear - that the agent concerned was not at fault, seems you are confused also!

 

I do not make any critisim of you Jamie, my comments are as usual, general.

However, you apper to need to mention that with reagrd agents:- I've had to drop for various reasons including ethics and client management.

I don't want my reputation with State Govts being sallied by a greedy few.

Did I need to know that?

 

When I post I do so on the basis that whate ever I wrote... out of every 100 readers, only me and maybe 5 other will understand what I have said.

( I dont mean the others are stupid, it just individual perception)

You are no idiot, but already you have not even understood my second para as you offer a defence and explanation on the assumption that I misunderstood you!

 

I dont care if an agent is "greedy" - if he/she/they do what they say they will do. If they did, we would see less negative posts on here.

"Greedy" is relative. Anybody not involved on a forum should have the wit to find at least two agents to get quotes from. Forum users are quick to have dozens of names and good reports within a short time of asking.

Punters are quoted and if they asre happy to pay the asking price, its up to them.

Any business need to maximise profit and control overheads.

Equally, it not much point being a brilliant business man at the controls if an idiot is employed to promote the busines!

 

Congratulations, you are unique on this forum and a record holder ( unless my rose tinted glasses deceive me)

The only person I have ever known to say about Gill:-

"...she also offers wrong, unfair and inconsistent advice that attracts my attention at times,...."

 

I understand you are not a registered imigration visa agent, so I wonder on what basis you qualify Gill's advice?

 

I hope there is an outlet near you that sells ex-military equipment, I think you are going to need a tin hat and some anti-flak protection.... coz I feel sure you just lit the fuze!

 

As an internet user since the early 90s I don't mind a good flame war but as others find them irksome I'll try to keep it down.

 

As an internet user from the mid 1980's and a Sinclair rubber keypad... and one of the first in the UK to use "Compuserve"....

This looks at a glance as though you invite a bit of aggravation!

As for "flame" wars, not for me, I do not like being involved in such things, most are contrived or happen, as we saw over the weekend, because some person either deliberately or stupidy created an online situation, - which as you will read below - may have been detrimental to a newbie.

 

If you search my posts, you will see that I post either tongue in cheek, slightly cynical, jokey stuff...or in responce to what I understand of those trying to take advantage - in any way -of newbies on the visa trail.

 

I am a website designer and create DVD based business or private presentations.

This is probably the third time online on this forum - and I think I was one of the first 1000 or so to sign up here, - that I mention the fact. \

I dont have it in a signature and I dont self promote on here.

Within the forum rules and personal integrity, its case of each to their own and let the devil..... etc

 

As I started the other post, I dont citicise you, but I do think at times using names is not perhaps a good idea... and as even you got confused, lesser mortals with teh same misunderstanding could avoid that agent.

See, its so easy.

 

L.L.

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Guest Gollywobbler

HI All

 

May we all focus on Bebac, please? It is his thread, after all.

 

I would suggest that Jamie apologises to Bebac for leaping to unfounded conclusions about Bebac's country of origin and then providing Bebac with a rambling description of how to find an agent in a country - and on a continent - which is irrelevant to the proceedings.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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