Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hello Steve If you want to use an agent then Richard Gregan, Sammy Naghi, George Lombard, Miriam Barber and Alan Collett have all said that they will be “sympathetic” to your earlier loss when considering what fee to suggest to you if you hire one of them next. I suggest asking all 5 how much they would seek to charge and make it clear that you have already lost £800 as a result of getting involved with their industry. Equally, DIAC are at pains to stress that there is no obligation on your part to use an agent at all unless you want to and they stress that using an agent will not provide any special privileges or other advantage as far as the service to be provided by DIAC is concerned. Migration Agents – Applications & Forms Your application should be pretty straightforward if you decide to go it alone. Is the ATA quote a fixed £1,500 regardless of whether or not you use an agent? I know that ACTS/Tradetrain say that their price is £1,950 if the client is using an agent and £2,950 if he is not. I guess – a guess – that they justify this by saying that if ACTS have to help to get all the right paperwork together and then help you to apply to TRA once you have the AQF III, it will involve ACTS in doing more work. Do ATA say the same? I don’t know, hence my query. ********************************************************************** If you decide to go it alone, here is the drill: You are a Painter & Decorator: Painter and Decorator 4421-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information Please note that the occupation is worth 60 points, it is on the MODL so it is potentially worth an extra 15 points on top and the skills assessment authority is Trades Recognition Australia or TRA. Step One: Co-operate with ATA and get your AQF III. Step Two: Apply to TRA for a skills assessment: workplace.gov.au - 1 Skills assessment for people intending to migrate to Australia Read the website carefully and click on every link you can find. The website is designed to facilitate self-service (DIY) because the majority of would be migrants from worldwide do not use migration agents. It has been designed to be as straightforward and as easy as possible to follow provided that you study it carefully. Use the new application form and note that you can now pay the fees by credit card. Step Three: which visa? Ideally you want a State sponsored subclass 176 visa because anything else will not be processed any time soon. Details about the visa are here: Skilled – Sponsored (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 176) Australian General Skilled Migration Booklet Please send a completely blank e-mail to aspc.processing@immi.gov.au You will receive an auto reply within about an hour. The e-mail will confirm that because Painter & Decorator is not on the Critical Skills List, the smart bunny will choose the State sponsored subclass 176 visa instead if he possibly can. Skilled – Sponsored (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 176) You need 100 points in total with this visa. If you opt for the State sponsored version then the points you can definitely count on are as follows: 15 – Competent English (automatic since you are British.) 60 – Nominated occupation 10 – State sponsorship You need to “fill in the blanks” with: Your age Whether you can claim 10 points for specific work experience Whether you can also claim another 15 MODL points However since 4C were willing to act for you my guess is that you will be OK on your points. If you find that your points total is 120 or more then my advice is to apply for a subclass 175 visa as soon as you get your positive skills assessment from TRA. This is a tactical move only, which I will explain. Skilled – Independent (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 175) A “subclass” implies that there is a Class. There is. Subclass 175 and subclass 176 are both in Class VE. Because they are in the same class, you can chop and change between the two at no additional cost and without having to complete any extra forms. Therefore apply for a subclass 175 visa to start with and switch to a sc 176 application later, once you have secured your State sponsorship. Doing it this way keeps all your options open and avoids delay in submitting your visa application. It will also protect your MODL points (if applicable) in the event that DIAC remove Painter & Decorator from the MODL after you have submitted your sc 175 application. Step Four: Obtain State sponsorship. There are 6 States and 2 Territories in the Commonwealth of Australia. Each of them has its own immigration department. Each of these departments has its own website and the fast link to all of them is here: State & Territory Migration Sites - australia.gov.au The above is a fast, reliable link which is miles better than the “dot & carry one” links in the stuff about the sc 176 visa. The State & Territory Governments all have differing views about which skills are needed on their own patch of turf. If they consider that the shortage is State-wide, they offer sponsorship for the immediately permanent sc 176 visa because the sc 176 allows you to move to any part of the State concerned. To this end, all 8 publish Lists of occupations that they are willing to consider for sc 176 sponsorship. Forget NSW because they do not sponsor trades skills applicants for the sc 176 visa but the others all do. Because they all have differing needs, their Lists vary from one another as well. West Australia is offering to sponsor Painters & Decorators and to my mind the WA website is the best, clearest and easiest to follow. If I take you through it with one State you should be able to check the others on your own. State Migration Centre The sc 176 visa is also known as the “State Sponsored Visa” or SSV, to distinguish it from the provisional Skilled Regional Sponsored subclass 475 visa or SRSV. Stick to your guns and do not become confused or side-tracked. If it does not mention “176” then you have clicked on the wrong link, OK?! State Migration Centre » Skilled Migration State Migration Centre » Skilled Sponsored Visa http://www.migration.wa.gov.au/media/documents/WAOIDL_JANUARY_2009.pdf I think WA will keep P&D on its sc 176 List because it is a vast State and they are trying to populate & develop it as much as anything else. At the moment South Australia are also offering sc 176 sponsorship for Painters & Decorators. I am not sure which others are offering it (QLD and VIC are not and NSW is not in the equation.) I think with all of them except WA it will be a matter of keeping an eye on the State websites to see what changes they make in the early part of the new financial year which begins on 1st July 2009. ************************************************************************** People who could and would give you a hand if you decide on DIY. http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/45944-visa-connection-victim.html http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/members/katypritchard.html Katy & Anthony are in their mid 20s with two young children. Katy is a legal secretary. Anthony is a Painter & Decorator. They saved hard to be able to afford £2,500 + VAT for a migration agent to help them, on top of saving for all the other costs involved in migration to Oz. They lost just over £3,000 when Visa Connection went bump in October 2008, as 4C has now followed suit in doing to you. Exactly like you, absolutely nothing had been done for them by VC in return for their money. Katy was beside herself to start with because although several other agents offered to be “sympathetic” about their own fees, she & Anthony simply couldn’t afford to pay anyone else on top of the money they had already lost. Other Poms in Oz members convinced Katy to do the whole thing herself. In January she embarked on a DIY application. She completed Anthony’s TRA skills application and got that. I think she then applied for an sc 175 visa for the reasons described above. They also examined each of the States offering sc 176 sponsorship for Painters & Decorators. They opted for South Australia. About 8 or 10 weeks ago Katy said she had submitted their sc 176 sponsorship application to South Australia. I imagine that they have this by now since she has not said any more. Katy is obviously well in control and on top of their application. She will shout if she needs further help. She is a bright, well organised young lady. I think that if you contact Katy, she will give you a hand because she has been through exactly the same trauma as you. http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/61319-what-happens-after-state-sponsored-approval.html http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/members/jackal.html Jackal is now 30 or 31. Like you he is a Painter & Decorator who had no formal qualifications so he needed to get an AQF III. ATA did not start trading till January 2009 so last July Jackal used ACTS/Tradetrain instead. ACTS pushed Jackal into the arms of a Registered Migration Agent – one of 3 whom they recommend, apparently. This agent (who can consider himself lucky that I am not naming & shaming him) helped with the TRA and dealt with applying for Jackal’s sc 175 visa in August 2008. At the time it was the right visa for Jackal. However all that changed suddenly in January 2009 when the Minister skewed the skilled independent visas towards State Sponsorship. Jackal is determined to settle in Perth, so he promptly applied for WA sc 176 Sponsorship which was eventually granted on 6th May. Jackal is not out of the woods yet, though. He & his girlfriend Julia have not been together for long enough for her to be included on his visa so Julia has obtained a Student visa and is due to start a course in Perth in early August. Student visa holders can travel to Oz 12 weeks before the course begins so that they can find somewhere to live etc. Julia & Jackal flew to Perth on 23rd May, with Jackal travelling on a 3 month tourist visa. He needs to be offshore for a few days when his sc 176 visa is granted so he has been on standby to fly to Bali at short notice because he wants to start working and earning some money. It is not in his own interests to dawdle about getting his sc 176 visa granted asap. My sister, her family and my mother all live in Perth. Julia & Jackal have been to Elaine’s house for a meal & an afternoon with them. My sister Elaine wants her house repainted. Jackal has been hired for the job because Elaine says – having spent an afternoon with him – that he is an absolute darling who explained exactly what needs to be done. Our ancient Mum lives with them and Mum is wheelchair bound. She is not a good charioteer. She is 88 and although she is all there mentally she has never had a driving licence and she would be dangerous in charge of a dodgem. She crashes her wheelchair into doorframes etc. The paint is all chipped but Jackal has been round it all and he says he can make everything Mother-proof up to wheelchair height and that the reinforcing he can do will not show. Apparently he managed to discuss it with Elaine tactfully without making Mum feel bad about the damage. So his first job in Perth is lined up but they are all stuck because although Jackal’s tools have now arrived in Perth, he needs his visa before he can start work. Elaine has other friends interested in the new “find” called Jackal because the big painting contractors in Perth won’t do individual house projects and Elaine & her friends won’t hire strangers who might not be any good at the job. Jackal has an AQF III so Elaine is satisfied that he is competent. She says it is obvious that he knows what he is talking about. I’ve chatted with him on the phone several times but he & I have talked visas, not walls! The Registered Migration Agent has thrown a complete spanner in the works. He told Jackal that the sc 176 application is “decision ready.” A CO has made contact asking for basic information which the Agent did not ask Jackal for and which is therefore not ready for submission to DIAC. Jackal has his family and a friend in the UK all running around trying to get the information together but when he contacted me last week he said he thinks he might have to return to the UK – leaving Julia on her own out in Perth – to sort the mess out at this end. He is not a happy bunny and in his shoes I would be livid, especially if he has to make what should have been an unnecessary trip back to the UK. Jackal can help with the detail required for your AQF III and he has done the practical so he knows what to expect from that as well. Jackal is a bit hard to get hold of at present – for the reasons described above. However if you send him a private message I am sure that he would respond as soon as he can. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevesmith101 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Thanks again Gill . Lots to think about. Just received my file back today from New Zealand ! not much in it just letters and receipts 4 corners sent me at the start No work done by them at all. Not sure if I have the time or capability to tackle the paperwork my self But I know i will get all the help I need on here .I have had a couple of prices from some mentioned above. Weighing everything up not sure yet what to do At least i have gained my AQF III passed it on Thursday. Thanks Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Congratulations on passing your AQF III. This is a huge hurdle for you to have got through...seriously. So well done!! Keep on going. Up to you if you hire an agent or not. But let us know if you have questions and the great Gollywobbler will help out I'm sure and I will too if I can. Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevesmith101 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hey Ryback I got my file back the other day and there was no mention of money to have it returned at all so why are you any different to me I think their just chancing their arm don't let them away with it Cheers Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hey RybackI got my file back the other day and there was no mention of money to have it returned at all so why are you any different to me I think their just chancing their arm don't let them away with it Cheers Steven Hi Steven By what means was your file returned to you, please? Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ryback Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Steven How did you manage that, like you said why are we being treated differently???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Helen VB Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Hey i wonder if anyone can help? Im trying to fill in the 956 form and im a little unsure of which thing im doing. The options are: * If appointing or changing your authorised recipient, go to Part G * If ending the appointment of your migration agent or exempt agent or authorised recipient, go to Part K Were wanting to take responsibility for the application and so want to do it ourselves. Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Hey i wonder if anyone can help?Im trying to fill in the 956 form and im a little unsure of which thing im doing. The options are: * If appointing or changing your authorised recipient, go to Part G * If ending the appointment of your migration agent or exempt agent or authorised recipient, go to Part K Were wanting to take responsibility for the application and so want to do it ourselves. Helen Hi Helen Form 956 is very poorly designed. In Part D, Question 6, tick the third box down. You want to end the appointment of your current agent. Then go to Part E like it says. In Part E Question 8, do you know who is currently the Agent on record for your application? Have you seen a copy of anything sent by DIAC to the agent? If you are not sure, quite a lot of the other 4C clients are saying that Matthew Garvey was ostensibly the agent on record with their own applications. If in doubt, though, phone the ASPC and find out. Contact Us - Department of Immigration and Citizenship Migration Agents Registration Authority= In Question 10, once you have completed the details of your existing agent, go to Part K. Then complete Form 1193 as well so as to complete the new details for yourself that Form 956 does not permit you to tell them about, eg your e-mail address! Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Helen VB Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Thanks Gill We have filled the forms in today and e-mailed them off. We'll keep you all updated. Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Hi All British Expats have quite a lively thread running about this issue. Four Corners Emigration is in Administration - Page 2 : British Expat Discussion Forum It seems that Brits applying to go to Canada have also had their own files hijacked and taken to New Zealand. They are also being asked for £80 each to get their files back. Unless the file contains original documents such as payslips, employer references, skills assessment and qualifications certificates etc there is probably no need to get the file back. Everything which is not a unique, original document can be recreated easily enough. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 From the MARA code of conduct: "4.4 A registered migration agent must not take over work from another registered migration agent unless he or she receives from the client a copy of written notice by the client to the other agent that the other agent’s services are no longer needed." So unless anyone instructs 4C or the administrator that 4c/Administrator are no longer needed, MB cannot take over your file else they could face MARA disciplinary action if a complaint was lodged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Hi Jamie Well spotted. David Lloyd's MARN is given on the Migration Bureau website. His MARA entry is here: Migration Agents Registration Authority= He is described as an "employee" of MB in both London and Christchurch though he plainly lives in Oz somewhere to judge from his e-mail address. He is a "consultant" to MB in various other places it seems. He is also a "consultant" to Visa Centre, at the same address as MB in London. For every £80 that somebody pays to get their file back, Migration Bureau are doing themselves thousands of pounds worth of harm via the publicity and public disapproval they are attracting via their disreputable attempts to ransom the clients of 4C. Cheers Gill Emigrating New Zealand, Emigrating Australia : Our People Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Always at your service ... :notworthy: :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevesmith101 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I am sure the post man dropped it off so it was royal mail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevesmith101 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Steven How did you manage that, like you said why are we being treated differently???? Wish i knew why Keep in there there should not be a charge to get your own file back its nonsense Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ryback Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 We emailed our forms to DIAC and they emailed back confirmation within 2 days and were really helpful in giving us our TRN ref no etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Helen VB Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hey Well we have finally recieved our information back from the Migration Beareu and we can now log onto to our own e-application on the government website. I was wondering if I could pick anyones brains! I e-mailed the DIAC asking whether they could tell us at what stage our application is at but they just came back saying that when our application is allocated a case officer they would be in touch. Do you know if the case officer is only allocated once your application is ready for the medical stage? Or will it be before that point? We are obviously worried after all the 4 corners fiasco as the last contact we had with 4 corners we were told that we would hers from the medical by July....which is almost upon us. Is anyone else at a similar stage to us or have just gone through it Help??? Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hi Helen Which visa have you applied for, please? What is the main applicant's occupation? Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Helen VB Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 We have applied for a Skilled Australian sponsored 176 visa. I am the main applicant and my job is a primary teacher. Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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