comparison of UK/OZ family benefits - AUSTRALIA WINS HANDS DOWN!!!

[The Ozcans]

While it may appear that Australia's benefits system seems to be more generous than Great Britain's, I think it a bit misleading. For a start, the income tax rates in Britain are quite a lot lower than in Australia. The National Insurance contributions roughly equate to Australia's superannuation contributions, 9% last I was there, though they may have gone up by now, plus the medicare contribution.

 

Also, with low incomes here, which after all have to reach £300 a week before any working tax credit, for example, is clawed back from a family, one gets various other exemptions, none of which are available completely in Australia.

 

For instance,

 

- all prescription costs here are waived.(NOT TRUE) In Australia, even those on the lowest incomes have to pay a contribution per prescription item.

- There are huge council tax rebates(WE GET NO REBATE WHATSOEVER) in Britain. In Australia, no relief is available for rates and even for tenants, where the rates are recovered by the landlords via the rent, only partial relief from rent is available via rent assistance.

- In Britain, dentists work for free(NOT TRUE) if you are an NHS patient. You could get free care in Australia if you attended dental hospital. But this would in itself be a vastly different experience from here in Scotland, and possibly also from the rest of the UK. In Australia, students would then get to practise on your teeth. No such thing here in Scotland - if you need to go to the dental hospital, fully trained surgeons are on hand to do the work.

- There are no school fees at state schools here in Britain.(WE GET ASKED MORE AND MORE TO CONTRIBUTE FOR EXTRAS) This seems to even extend to things like the schools providing jotters. While school levies are supposedly voluntary in Australia, in practice it would be a very brave parent who refused to pay them, such is the "moral obligation" to pay such fees.

 

For working people on low incomes in Australia, the benefits tend to be paid out via the tax system. So if you haven't claimed, be sure to put your tax return in asap after the 30th of June.

 

 

 

WE have one wage and it's not very high. When you're in between thresholds you don't get much.

[Guest treesea]

Sorry treesea but your English tinted eyes don't actually see the facts.

1 You claim "all prescription costs here are waived" well that's what you pay taxes for,it's actually not "free"-taxpayers subsidise ,and prescription costs are only waived for some,my GF who has parkinsons disease pays for her medicine because parkinsons disease is not on the list of illnesses where she gets free prescriptions.

2 You say no relief is available for rates-wrong,pensioners receive a rate rebate in all states and having owned and rented out property in Australia I can advise that none of my tenants has ever paid rates,that's a fact.

3 You claim that In Britain, dentists work for free if you are an NHS patient,have you tried to get to see an NHS dentist in the UK recently.Read this:

NHS Blog Doctor: The destruction of NHS dentistry : the fat cats go private

and this:

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Cornwall | NHS dental services scrutinised

 

We have an NHS dentist. When we first came to Scotland, we called NHS 24 who directed us to another part of the NHS. When I asked about whether it would be possible to get an NHS dentist, they said they were "obligated" to provide a choice of two "within public transport travelling distance" from our home. The one we chose has been brilliant. Apparently you only have to pay when you no longer qualify as a family for any working tax credit. Given the low wages in Scotland, there must be heaps of families with incomes less than £15,000 a year.

 

Yes, I do realise some drugs aren't available on the NHS, but that's in England. it seems to be quite often the case that drugs not available in England are supplied up here in Scotland.

 

While you say your tenants don't directly pay rates, surely your rent levels as a landlord are sufficient to cover the rates? That's more a difference in the system, that rates in Australia are levied on the property owner rather than directly on the tenants, as they are in Britain.

 

With prescriptions, at least here, if you are poor, you don't have to pay anything towards the costs of the prescription. Not so in Australia. There's a minimum charge - it used to be $2.60 per item - not sure what it is now, and you have to pay that even if you are on the dole.

 

I'm not defending the British system over the Australian one, maybe it makes more sense to pay a little bit towards the costs of things like prescription medicines, rather than nothing at all. The same with the rent - maybe it's better just to pay some of the rent, even for the poorest families, rather than all of it and then some, i.e. how it is paid via local housing allowances here.

 

Aren't rates rebates for pensioners in Australia both income and assets means tested? Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't be, just pointing out that Australia's benefits system is not quite as generous as people seem to think.

 

 

WE have one wage and it's not very high. When you're in between thresholds you don't get much.

 

Yes, I agree. Once you get above £15K a year or so here, the benefits do seem to fall way rapidly. Even so, there are some pretty good deals on, for instance, buying houses via social housing arrangments here - and the house of your choice, whereby you buy, say, 25% and the council buy the other 75%, then at some future date you can gradually increase your equity at whatever the going market rate is, as and when your circumstances allow. This used to be only open to families earning below £32K p.a. but has recently been extended to include families on incomes up to £60K here in Scotland.

 

Plus, if you are unlucky enough to suffer a big drop in income or losing your job here, the government will pay your mortgage interest on up to £200K of mortgage a year until you do get work again.

 

The only thing I haven't come across so far here that they had in Australia was food parcels, from places like the Salvation Army and the local churches.

 

I have to agree with nigel. My 7 year old daughter has only just seen a dentist as we have only just been given an nhs dentist. The only other time my daughter has seen dentist is when the dentist went into school to check the teeth. But they have stopped doing that now.

The nhs is not as rosy as you may think.

Most dentist told us they would only take my daughter on as an nhs patient if both me and my husband paid full private dental fees.

 

Rachael

 

That's interesting - and outrageous. Is there one NHS for Scotland and a harder to access NHS available for England? We did tell the NHS people we spoke to when they found us an NHS dentist that our local dentist, while advertising he took NHS patients, wouldn't accept even our children as patients. They told us all dentists are required to accept children as patients, and that under 16 they are all under the NHS, and they did investigate our claim, then told us if we particularly wanted our children to go to that dentist, they had arranged for us to register them there.

 

20,000 of my fellow English people move up to Scotland every year. From the tales of woe so many of you on this forum seem to be escaping down in England, I am starting to think I am not surprised. Well....maybe if they were leaving Cornwall, South Devon or North Yorkshire (Knaresborough is still one of the most beautiful places on the planet)....

[The Ozcans]

treesea

things must be so amazingly different in Scotland compared to over-crowded midlands.

NHS dentist.

Find one yourself - loads of dentists - are they taking on NHS patients? NO

Now they have the sliding scale of 3 charges - before that even as a NHS patient you had to pay something and if you earn! Extortionate!

Prescriptions.

If you're under 16, pregnant, or over 65 free. Don't know about on benefits because we don't qualify because my OH works, so we have to pay per item on each prescription.

 

As has been said before (by the way do you work in the benefits office because you're always on about claiming) If you work you pay.

I think you either don't work and get everthing free, or you work harder to get less.

It's not fair on working families.

 

Sue x

[Guest earlswood]

treesea

things must be so amazingly different in Scotland compared to over-crowded midlands.

NHS dentist.

Find one yourself - loads of dentists - are they taking on NHS patients? NO

Now they have the sliding scale of 3 charges - before that even as a NHS patient you had to pay something and if you earn! Extortionate!

Prescriptions.

If you're under 16, pregnant, or over 65 free. Don't know about on benefits because we don't qualify because my OH works, so we have to pay per item on each prescription.

 

As has been said before (by the way do you work in the benefits office because you're always on about claiming) If you work you pay.

I think you either don't work and get everthing free, or you work harder to get less.

It's not fair on working families.

 

Sue x

I found an NHS dentist straight away when I got back no problem, and I live in the midlands.

[The Ozcans]

Cotswolds not quite the same

[Guest earlswood]

Cotswolds not quite the same

Stratford.

[Guest treesea]

treesea

things must be so amazingly different in Scotland compared to over-crowded midlands.

NHS dentist.

Find one yourself - loads of dentists - are they taking on NHS patients? NO

Now they have the sliding scale of 3 charges - before that even as a NHS patient you had to pay something and if you earn! Extortionate!

Prescriptions.

If you're under 16, pregnant, or over 65 free. Don't know about on benefits because we don't qualify because my OH works, so we have to pay per item on each prescription.

 

As has been said before (by the way do you work in the benefits office because you're always on about claiming) If you work you pay.

I think you either don't work and get everthing free, or you work harder to get less.

It's not fair on working families.

 

Sue x

 

Yes, I saw how overloaded the NHS was in Manchester, before we moved up here. And amazingly, for such a small place, Cambridge wasn't any better.

 

Oh, how I wish some days I didn't work. We work long hours, for peanuts. Though not as "crumbs" as it was when we first came back. But put it this way, I think we will qualify to buy social housing (you know, where you buy, e.g. a quarter of the house and the council buys the other three quarters) for a long time to come. Sometimes it's the price of coming back. I hadn't worked in Britain for nearly 20 years, and then only for a short stint. Whereas at one time returnees from OZ or NZ were welcomed into jobs with open arms, by the time we came back that wasn't the case. I'd rather be here and earning peanuts than in OZ earning a six figure package. I would think there are heaps of people on here who wouldn't agree with me :-)

 

I talk about benefits because, while practically every migrant on the outward journey to Australia would have likely been in skilled work and doing reasonably well in the UK, if they want to come back it sometimes happens that they are coming back with a lot less than they went with. Plus, they are coming back to an economy in crisis. Certainly our own income has decreased a bit in the past year or so.

 

I suppose I think it is a pity if people realise they have made a mistake migrating to Australia - it's not just that Australia isn't for everyone, but more that being "a migrant" isn't for everyone - but feel trapped there because they think they are coming back to nothing. Most of these people have paid lots of VAT, income tax, national insurance - you name it they probably have paid it - in the UK, for years before they left. If benefits help people get back to the country where they want to live, then I'm all for them.

 

Put it this way, if I was going back to Australia and couldn't get work, I would claim benefits without a qualm, on the basis I have paid enough Australian taxes over the years to keep me in clover for the rest of my life.

 

I realise people feel strange about benefits when they have never claimed them, or had to claim them. But you know something that is great about Britain compared to Australia? When I was in Australia some of my colleagues hated "dole bludgers" with a passion I couldn't get my head around. "They could pick fruit, clean toilets, become a security guard, be a jackaroo"....on and on and on. "Why do they have to waste my frigging taxes?" was the lament. They reminded me of Americans. Over here in Britain, the prevailing sentiment is "There but for the Grace of God, go I".

[Playghirl]

1200 per month?? Wow that sounds a lot!

[supa]

1 You claim "all prescription costs here are waived" well that's what you pay taxes for,it's actually not "free"-taxpayers subsidise ,and prescription costs are only waived for some,my GF who has parkinsons disease pays for her medicine because parkinsons disease is not on the list of illnesses where she gets free prescriptions.

 

Just as an aside, hubbie buys a pre-payment certificate thing for £120 per year and all prescriptions are then "free". Is that worth looking into?

[THE DUNSCOMBE FAMILY]

​check out http://www.centerlink.gov.au ..................Family Assistance , Rent allowance . Family tax part A and B this will give you a better guide .

[supa]

1 You claim "all prescription costs here are waived" well that's what you pay taxes for,it's actually not "free"-taxpayers subsidise ,and prescription costs are only waived for some,my GF who has parkinsons disease pays for her medicine because parkinsons disease is not on the list of illnesses where she gets free prescriptions.

 

Just as an aside, hubbie buys a pre-payment certificate thing for £120 per year and all prescriptions are then "free". Is that worth looking into?

 

Sorry proudtobeaussie, you are in Oz aren't you - please ignore my post! Back to bed for me!

[2tigers]

Not read the whole thread, but - do you think European countries have threads like this - go to the UK as they pay out more if you don't want to work and stay at home to provide a family unit?

 

Please do not take that comment the wrong way, but is it so dissimilar?

 

I totally agree with trying to claim as much as you are eligible for, thats why its in place, but I don't see it as a clear cut reason to emigrate. Its more than just about the finances.

[2tigers]

This thread began years ago! LOL - who's dragged this one up haha

[Playghirl]

Oh me, it just came up. I didn't even notice the age. I am back in OZ after 20 years and after getting child befitting in Uk, wondered if I would get it here in OZ. Haven't claimed yet, been here 8 weeks.... Must do it. Every it towards nappies help. Can't get over the nappies being twice the price of them in Uk, that inlcludws the cloth nappies!!

[Guest]

treesea

things must be so amazingly different in Scotland compared to over-crowded midlands.

NHS dentist.

Find one yourself - loads of dentists - are they taking on NHS patients? NO

Now they have the sliding scale of 3 charges - before that even as a NHS patient you had to pay something and if you earn! Extortionate!

Prescriptions.

If you're under 16, pregnant, or over 65 free. Don't know about on benefits because we don't qualify because my OH works, so we have to pay per item on each prescription.

 

As has been said before (by the way do you work in the benefits office because you're always on about claiming) If you work you pay.

I think you either don't work and get everthing free, or you work harder to get less.

It's not fair on working families.

 

Sue x

 

Things are amazingly different in Scotland, we lived there 2002-2008 before migrating to Australia. We didn't even need to go to a GP to get some medicines on free on prescription, the pharmacist could issue them and we had no problems seeing a NHS dentist, we hadn't had one for years in England - admittedly not flash like the ones here but then no bills of a coup,e of grand either. We were back visiting this year and unfortunately was seriously ill. I phoned NHS Scotland, immediately was able to see a GP (free), admitted to hospital (free) and prescribed a number of drugs (free) and my admission papers even said 'unidentified foreign national' - which did upset me a bit! Though when I told them I was English, I thought that might make it worse!

 

There is no doubt about it healthcare is available and free in Scotland as you would expect in what is

primarily a socialist country.

 

I can't comment on the benefits side, I get a disability allowance and healthcare card here which isn't means tested but otherwise I have fortunately never claimed income based benefits in either country. Child benefit is means tested in Australia, which I think is fair enough though I understand it is going to be in the UK too.

 

I've heard of people having to pay school fees of $4k and definitely not for a private school and that's on top of uniforms, books and stationary and often the uniforms have to be bought at the school shop, no cheap polo shirts from Tesco. Although I was forever having to put my hand in my pocket for something or other at my sons school in Scotland it was nowhere near that much!

 

We are financially worse off here even though we earn more but Perth is a particularly expensive place to live as there are so many people with extraordinarily high wages from the mining industry.

 

Anyway my main point is Scotland and England are quite different!

 

Jules

[Guest guest76088]

It is just me that sees it as odd to consider your financial success based on handouts? As someone that has worked continuously since leaving school at 16 (yes, supported a family and brought up kids) without claiming anything, I view benefits as a safety-net not a way of life.

 

Maybe the direction of the discussion should be, how can I better my family's prospects through work, or cut my cloth to suit?

 

BigD

[peter bull]

Sod Australia

 

Lets all move to scotland sound like the place to be, what happened to the uk v oz debate. Me and my partner both work have 3 kids 2,8,15 cant afford child care so i work 7-5 + sat mornings and she works nights and weekends in a restraunt, she could be a stay at home mum and prob get extra benefits from a lower income but sod that, every penny counts were saving up to come to oz, where we will defo be spending more time as a family. For me personally there is more chance to get by on one wage plus family assist in oz than one wage plus tax credits and child benefit here. Regarding pensions then who knows age goes up money goes down more so now with all the changes at least what gets payed in for you in oz you have more of a say of what happens to it, + you have the option of paying more in so you have more to retire on.(up to you really) Regarding houses then most in oz are detatched on big ish blocks ie the burbs ? (average joes house) 3-4 bed. Same house where i live that would be classed as a very large house more like a 2 up 2 down terrace. Trying to buy a 4 bed detatched house about 30 miles out of manchester c/c 250,000 + on 35,000 year joint income could prove to be very dificult. House prices 30 miles out of perth c/c 400,000 + on single income 100,000 with benefits included so thats 7 years salary in uk and 4-5 years salary in oz. So for me as an overall better life style for a middle class moderate earner on an average salary both in uk and in oz then on this topic oz wins, there are loads more factors to work in which could throw it eather way but im deffo going to give it a go :-)

[peter bull]

It is just me that sees it as odd to consider your financial success based on handouts? As someone that has worked continuously since leaving school at 16 (yes, supported a family and brought up kids) without claiming anything, I view benefits as a safety-net not a way of life.

 

Maybe the direction of the discussion should be, how can I better my family's prospects through work, or cut my cloth to suit?

 

BigD

 

I do agree

 

But as a young family trying to start a new life at the other side of the world then i will accept the extra help for now, at least until we find our feet from what i hear even on $80,000 a year with a large family in perth due to high rentals it can still prove to be trying, we have both agreed that once we have found suitable child care and my partner has found her self happy in a new carrer then it is back to working our way up the ladder :-)

[Jacaranda]

Have they got an equivalent show in Oz to Jeremy Kyle?:laugh:

[Petals]

It is just me that sees it as odd to consider your financial success based on handouts? As someone that has worked continuously since leaving school at 16 (yes, supported a family and brought up kids) without claiming anything, I view benefits as a safety-net not a way of life.

 

Maybe the direction of the discussion should be, how can I better my family's prospects through work, or cut my cloth to suit?

 

BigD

 

I thought most people over the years migrated to Aus to get away from relying on Benefits.

 

Anyway looks like the gravy train is going to end soon for middle class welfare and so it should. Even though it will affect me, I know that my life is so much better than a lot of other families.

[Quinkla]

You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

First off, you are comparing your current situation (2 parents working and 2 kids) - with your future situation (1 parent working and 3 kids).

 

You are also not taking into account other costs and benefits including very different cost of living.

 

The only way to tell whether or not you are better off in Australia is to try it and see whether you have a better or worse quality of life. It is easy to be seduced by comparing just one aspect of the mix without seeing the huge differences in prices of utilities, food, housing, cars, telephony or whatever. My hunch is that bringing up three kids in Australia on an income of $60,000 would be very, very tight. Of course it can be done - plenty of people do - but will it compare favourably against your expectations? Only you can answer that.

[VERYSTORMY]

God this thread annoys the hell out of me. People have chosen to have children but now they want me to pay for them. If you can't afford them. Don't have them.

[peter bull]

God this thread annoys the hell out of me. People have chosen to have children but now they want me to pay for them. If you can't afford them. Don't have them.

 

 

I think your very wrong there, have you ever had children ? dont blame the poeple blame the system, i to dont think that giving poeple hand outs solves anything and yes it could be done very differently, but the benefits that are being discussed are aimed more at working parents who are trying to juggle a family and a house on a short term basis until they get back to work full time, BUT if you cant get by in the country you currently reside then i personally think you shouldnt be alowed to move to a different one just because the benefits are better thats why the UK is in such a mess!

[VERYSTORMY]

I think your very wrong there, have you ever had children ? dont blame the poeple blame the system, i to dont think that giving poeple hand outs solves anything and yes it could be done very differently, but the benefits that are being discussed are aimed more at working parents who are trying to juggle a family and a house on a short term basis until they get back to work full time, BUT if you cant get by in the country you currently reside then i personally think you shouldnt be alowed to move to a different one just because the benefits are better thats why the UK is in such a mess!

 

 

Or here is an idea. If your job doesn't pay what you want. You get the training to change. How many parents claiming some benefit have a couple of cars and a flat screen tv? There should be a max life limit on benefits that a person can claim.

[calNgary]

Totally agree with your post Peter,, VS thats a pretty silly comment,, regardless of if I or joe bloggs decides to claim what he is entitled to, you will stay pay via taxes,, its the system and the goverment you need to point your frustration at not everyday working people.

 

Cal x