Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Thread startd by Gollywobbler on behalf of Bina Freeman hi, we are preparing to fill in the forms to emigrate to the land down under. We would be interested to hear from anyone who has emigrated with a child who is disabled and has special needs. We have many questions of both a medical and educational nature. we have 2 other children who have no problems and would welcome any information on emmigrating with children all together, regarding schooling etc. many thanks bina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Hi Bina How old is your disabled child and what is the cause of the disability? What sort of help does your child need now, and what sort of help is likely to be needed in the future? If you could supply a bit more information, I and others can start to try to help you to work this out. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bina Freeman Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 my son is 12 yrs old, has congential heart disease, left hemiplegia, epilepsy and developmental delay. He would need one to one supervision at any school he was to attend because of the epilepsy. regards bina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Hi Bina Thanks for replying and I have now closed the other thread. Honey, are you aware that the health criteria for migration to Australia are quite strict? It all boils down to cost, unfortunately, and "cost" is not confined to the cost of medical care alone. That can be minimal in some cases. They would look at issues like the cost of providing the one-to-one supervision your son would need whilst at school. They would also look at whether he would be able to be entirely self-supporting (and tax-paying) once he grows up. To give you an idea of the sorts of issues you would be up against, please click on the link below: http://www.austlii.edu.au//cgi-bin/disp.pl/au/cases/cth/federal_ct/2005/1626.html?query=Visa%20+%204005%20+%20Robinson The bottom line is that it might not be possible for you to migrate because of your son's disability. This being the case, I think that a LOT more research needs to be done before any application for a visa is considered. I think the considerations fall into two areas. The first - definitely - is whether or not it is likely that your son will be able to meet the medical criteria for migration. If it is felt that he would be a borderline case on the meds, then the next issue would be considering what visa options are open to you, which one would be the best in the circumstances, and so forth. This is absolutely NOT DIY territory, unfortunately. The medico-legal aspects of the migration legislation, and how they work in practice, is a very highly specialised sub-field in this subject, and there are hardly any genuine experts practising in this sub-field of migration Law. We had not dissimilar worries about my 86 year old, disabled mother last year, albeit in different circumstances, so I do know exactly how you will feel when you read this. It is really hard to know whether it is better to start with the lawyers or with the doctors in trying to reach the most reliable conclusions that you can about whether or not migration is going to be possible in this situation. I think that for the moment the best bet is probably for you to consider the Robinson case, which is up-to-date Law, so that you can get a better feel for what would be involved and what the considerations would be. Give me another shout if you would like further assistance at any time. I do know the names of the lawyers specialising in this area of Law if you feel that that would be helpful to you. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caz&si Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Hello Gill, Just been reading your post and wondered if you could help me too, please. We too have a child with a medical condition. She is 6 yrs old and has cerebral palsy. It is extremely mild and affects her right leg. She is not classed as disabled and receives no benefits to this effect as she is deemed self-sufficient. She does wear a splint on her leg but the 'orthotist' who she sees in regards to making them says she is exceptional and may not even have to wear it the rest of her life. He feels she will be able to control her condition as she gets older, (she toe-walks basically). He thinks there is no way she won't live a normal adult life. Her condition does not affect her mentally and she attends mainstream school and participates fully in all physical activities. I was just wondering if, in your opinion you think that the advice you gave the other lady in this thread may somewhat apply to us? Not sure if she would meet the medical criteria. Thanks in advance, Caz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Hi Caz Honey, the only person who can tell you whether or not your child will be OK on the medical criteria is the Medical Officer of the Commonwealth [of Australia.] Nobody else has a say in matter. The legislation is absolutely strict on this point. I can tell you that the Robinson case has laid down in tablets of stone that the MoC is required to consider every shred of evidence put forward about your child's condition, and is now expressly forbidden from making assumptions based on "general experience of patients with the particular condition." That is a huge step forwards in making the whole thing much more enlightened and reasonable. Have you read Form 1071i? If not, it is here and it is a very accurate description of what the legislation says: http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1071i.pdf They look at the availability of the resources to care for the person's medical condition. They also look at whether the person is (or would when grown up become) entitled to Australia's Disability Support pension. In childhood, they would consider whether the parents could claim a Carers Allowance and so forth. It is not assessed solely according to the likely medical costs alone, and nobody should be in any doubt about that. The legislation also says that if the total resource/costs requirements would be "significant" then they are significant regardless of whether or not the public resources (eg publicly-funded medical help) or the other resources (eg special care and/or Disability Support services and pensions) would actually be sought or used. In terms of someone's degree of disability, and therefore whether or not they would qualify for a Disability Support pension in due course, they use the Impairment Tables in the Social Security Act. I did look those up once but could not make head or tail of them, frankly. I had a look on Google for you earlier to see whether I could find some Cerebral Palsy Associations or Foundations in Australia that might be able to help you more than I can. Please see the following link: http://www.cpaustralia.com.au/ That seems to be an Australia-wide group but there are individual ones in the States too. They would be able to tell you about things like orthotist's costs if you had to pay for them privately, and about whether people with CP would automatically qualify for some sort of financial or other help from the State. Some of them might have forums where the Members can talk with each other, but you might have to pay to join the Association before you can get into those. I would suggest ringing some of these organisations. They might not reply to an e-mail but they can't ignore a phone call, I suggest. Hope this helps a bit. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Hi again, Bina & Caz This link might help you both a bit more: http://www.pomsinperth.com/discussionboard/viewtopic.php?t=9627&highlight=iscah+newsletter Scroll through the stuff at the beginning and you'll get a whole load of medical stuff. It looks to me like it is the Instructions to Panel Doctors or something. Be wary of the bit at the top about $25,000 though. That figure is not confined to medical costs alone, as I have mentioned before. Also, if this stuff is aimed at the panel doctors (it is plainly not aimed at the public) all that it really gets to is (a) what extra tests the PD should organise or ask for and (b) whether he should tick Cat A or Cat B on Form 26. For a list of panel doctors in the UK and also forms 26 & 160, please click on the link below and follow the health link. Forms 26 & 160 are right at the bottom of the page, below the link to the list of Panel Doctors. Regards Gill Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caz&si Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hi Gill, Thanks so much for your help and for digging out those websites. I will scutinise them all! I read the robinson case - as much as I could follow anyway. That was an extreme case I think but it set a precedent which is great for us so we live in hope. Once again, appreciate your time and trouble. Caz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bina Freeman Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Hi Gill thanks for information,we are disapointed after reading johnson case and now know that our son would definatley not get into australia because of his health care needs, Could i just ask if an australian came to the britain would he be denied acces if he had a disability. It just seems like discrimination towards the disabled. What do you think Regards Bina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Hi Bina I am sorry to hear that you feel you probably wouldn't succeed in being able to migrate with your son. You know what his present needs are and what his future needs are likely to be - unfortunately I don't know anything about his condition and in any case I'm not a medic. Are you sure that it is wise to make such a weighty decision without having a word with an expert in this field, though? There are some visas, for example, where the health of a secondary applicant can be disregarded as long as the main applicant is healthy - this is sometimes the case with the 457 visa, I am told, though that is only a temp visa and I do not know the exact degree to which the waiver might be available. It might be possible to appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal in the case of a Family Sponsored skilled PR visa as well - I'm not sure. Nor do I know what the appeal-rights are in the case of employer-sponsored visas, or what they are in relation to State/Territory Nominated visas. You may be right in saying what you are saying in relation to the skilled 136 visa. But there are other visas besides that one and if your son is a borderline case only, it is possible that a proper expert might be able to do something via one of the other visas. For instance, the family in the Robinson case went to Australia on a Labour Agreement visa. The first appeal against the refusal of their son was dealt with by the Migration Review Tribunal. That is a merits review body and its powers are different from those of the Court. In the MRT case with Robinson, the RMOC confirmed the findings of the original MOC, but the second appeal to the Court resulted in the decision that the MOC, the RMOC and the MRT had all made a mistake in how they had interpreted the legislation. However, with something like the skilled 136 visa, there is no right of appeal to the MRT. The only appeal is to the Court and then only if there has been a legal mistake in how to interpret the legislation on the parts of the decision makers (DIAC) and/or the MOC. I am NOT for an instant encouraging you to say, "To hell with it. Let's apply for a visa that has some MRT appeal rights and then appeal against a refusal even though it would be futile and regardless of cost." What I AM saying is that perhaps you should think about whether you should spend some money in order to get at least some preliminary advice from a proper expert in this field before you attempt to reach a decision. One such expert is a solicitor in Sydney called Peter Bollard, whose website details are here: http://users.bigpond.net.au/onk/ Please see this link as well: http://users.bigpond.net.au/onk/Health2.html The chances are that Mr Bollard would want to see some recent specialist's reports about your child's exact condition and what the long term outlook for him is before it would be possible to advise you one way or the other, and the assessment would not be free, but you might consider it worth the cost in order to be sure of whether or not your own preliminary evaluation of your situation is the right one, honey. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bina Freeman Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Hi Gill Thankyou for the information it seems we need to look into it a bit more, You said maybe if the main applicant was healthy they disregard others. Actualy the main applicant has epilepsy which is under control and does not effect him from working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Hi Bina I am told that with the 457 visa, the health of a secondary applicant is less important than with, say, a skilled 136. However, the 457 is only a temporary visa, which is why they can afford to take a more relaxed view about the health of a secondary applicant. Also, Medicare in not included in a 457 visa (though it might be obtainable to a limited extent by a British 457 visa-holder by reason of the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between the UK and Oz.) However, even if the health requirement is more relaxed with a 457 visa, one still has to think about what will happen if the 457 visa-holder decides to apply for a visa that would give the whole family Permanent Residence in Australia, plus full Medicare, plus the right to claim various State Benefits after an initial 2 year qualifying period. In order to work out a proper strategy for you, an expert such as Peter Bollard would need to see up-to-date medical reports etc. Then he would be able to advise you about the likelihood or otherwise of a 457 visa being available in the light of your son's disability. He would also consider whether any of the permanent skilled visas might be possible for you later on in the process. Some of them have a right of appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal. Where a permanent residence visa has been refused on medical grounds, if it is one that carries a right of appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal, then in some cases it is possible to appeal against the medical refusal via the MRT. The applicants can produce further medical reports and so forth if they believe that the medical refusal should not have happened. They can insist that all the medical evidence (including new medical information) is reviewed by the Review Medical Officer of the Commonwealth. Effectively this is a second opinion from a different MOC doctor. Sometimes the RMOC concludes that the original MOC has been too cautious. If the RMOC declares that the applicant meets the health criteria after all, the Tribunal is required to accept the second opinion and to send the case back to DIAC with instructions that the medical criteria have been satisfied. In that situation, the visa is likely to be granted. Some of the employer-sponsored visas (including Labour Agreements, presumably, since Ms Robinson was on a Labour Agreement) do have a right of appeal to the MRT, though the employer-sponsor cannot always be relied on to provide the support needed to make an appeal to the MRT a goer. I have no idea about what the appeal rights are with State/Territory Nominated visas or with family-sponsored skilled visas, nor what they are with the ENS or RSMS visas So I don't know which of the skilled PR visas apart Labour Agreements have a right of appeal to the MRT, in short. I know that with the skilled independent 136 visa, there is definitely no right of appeal to the MRT. The only appeal from a 136 refusal is to the Court, and that can only be done if there is evidence that DIAC and/or the MOC have interpreted the Law wrongly and have therefore applied it incorrectly. As was the situation in Robinson but situations where the Law has been wrongly interpreted and applied incorrectly are rare. Also, much depends on which of the skilled visas the main applicant would be eligible for. If he or she would be eligible for a skilled 136, then they may also be eligible for one of the other skilled visas instead - one with less restricted rights of appeal in the event of refusal on medical grounds. However, all this would be for naught if it turns out that the secondary applicant's medical condition is such that there is no doubt from the outset that the medical criteria for permanent migration could never be satisfied. It is very, very complex to work it all out and it is something which shouldn't be attempted by anyone who is not as much of a specialist in this area of the legislation as Peter Bollard is. He is one of a small handful who really know how to tackle medically complex cases. Those who are less expert in this area should not dabble in it at all. Where it is known from the outset that the application will be complex if made, it should be handled by a proper expert from the beginning in my view. That gives the applicant a much better chance than if somebody like Peter Bollard has to step in and try to rescue the applicant from a bungled attempt made by someone else who should not have been dabbling in it. If you are determined to try to get to Australia, then I think it would be worth a discussion with Peter Bollard or one of the others in this sub-field. However, do be aware that for a percentage of would be migrants to Oz, it is always going to be an impossible dream because somebody in the family has no chance of meeting the medical criteria, no matter what. Your own case might be borderline. Your son is able to attend school. He only needs supervision in case of an epileptic seizure, it seems. If he were profoundly disabled in every way, then there would be no point in considering Australia. However from what you say this is not the case. Your situation might be borderline enough to enable Peter Bollard & Co to find a way to make your dream happen for you. If they say, "No can do" then at least you will know that you explored every possible avenue. I hope this is of some use. I'm doing this reply in my lunch break, which is never ideal but it is better than keeping you waiting for a response, I hope. Best wishes, hunny. Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bina Freeman Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Hi Gill Is there a web site for Peter Bollard, or an address that we might be able to contact him on. ps-Thanks for replying in your lunch hour with whole lot of information, it was really usefull. Kind regards Bina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Hi Bina http://users.bigpond.net.au/onk/ The above link takes you straight to Peter Bollard's website. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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