Australia in Recession and massive job losses

[Guest littlesarah]

And who told you this?

 

The thread starter said Recession and massive job losses.

I don’t think one or two plots of land are going to help the recession, and put thousands of construction workers back in a job.

 

Just take a big breath and think about it.

 

 

Bowbrum

 

Did you really need to be quite so patronising?! :notworthy:

 

Where did I say that one or two self-build projects would rebuild the economy?! I was making a joke referring to the difficulties in obtaining the services of skilled trades during the economic good times, compared with same when there is less work around for such people.

 

Yes, I was being rather facetious - sorry if that offends you in some way. I was not belittling the worry & suffering of skilled craftsmen during these difficult times - I'm married to one, and we have no way of knowing whether he'll be able to get work when we arrive.

 

However, for some of us (like me), good humour is the only way we get through anything. (Perhaps it's part of what makes a person end up working in health care!)

 

I hope things work out in the end, without too much pain for all concerned.

 

Please note, this is not intended to start an argument, I just feel like I was kicked for daring to jest a little.

 

Love & peace to all, wherever you may be (or want to be). :wubclub:

 

Little Sarah

[Guest bowbrum03]

People don't buy houses if they are concerned about whether they can pay for them-well,nobody with any brains would anyway,so the fact that the housing market is picking up is good news and points to a shorter than expected recession-in my view

 

 

 

Hi Nigel,

I agree with most things you say, but this is not true.

If the housing market picks up (which it is not) People buying new build houses will come last.

The whole point is to get out of this recession and get construction workers back too work, this will not happen until the big builders start selling 30-40 houses per month. And the banks start lending money again.

At this present time Mr and Mrs Joe Bloggs, are going to buy a used house and MAY lose a few thousand dollars.

I know for a fact if you buy a plot of land and build a house, you will have LOST tens of thousands of dollars, before it is even complete. So what would you do?

This is going to be even worse after the end of June when the $21,000 grant finishes

I have a friend who started to build his 2 Mill Home, he now has had too stop building and god knows how much they have lost. This is happening to lost of people.

When the housing market picks up, new build will be last. And this is not going too happen over night.

[Guest lovediving]

Virgin blue have announced they are cutting flights and jobs as they lose ground in their share price. Just another casualty......

[Guest proud2beaussie]

Well BowBrum I can only make comments based on what I hear from clients and from people who I trust to be good judges like my bank manager,.

This is how I view the situation,Australia is in a recession and probably,according to most good judges has been since the last quarter of 2008,unemployment is officially at 4.8%,unofficially probably 5.6-5.8% as the official figures always under-report the real rate by about 0.75 to 1.0%,and the worst scenario has the rate rising to possibly 7.8% within a few months-those are the negatives,now the positives are that the housing market is picking up according to people I talk to,auction clearance rates are rising,housing affordability is at the highest level for 5 years and mortgage approvals are also up,new builds traditionally take a few months to crank up again,that,and other factors like the stimulus packages and the low interest rate is the reason why I believe that the recession,whilst pretty bad will not be as bad as it could have been ,and also will not last as long as I had initially expected,these are my views ,but also the views of both my bank manager and stock broker both of whom have much better qualifications than me.

And that,for what it's worth is my take on things,others ,like you,BowBrum disagree with me,that is your/their right.

[Guest bowbrum03]

these are my views ,but also the views of both my bank manager and stock broker

 

Well Nigel, that about says it all.

Bank manager and stock broker, they are the ones who got us into this mess in the first place.

[Guest proud2beaussie]

Well Nigel, that about says it all.

Bank manager and stock broker, they are the ones who got us into this mess in the first place.

The average suburban bank manager has little to do with it actually,it's merchant banks like Goldman Sachs etc that cause the real hassles,most suburban bank managers suffer as much as anyone else in a recession,they just do what they are told by head office,same with stockbrokers,it's the big derivatives traders who are at fault here.,and I'm the last person to defend them.

[Guest proud2beaussie]

Virgin blue have announced they are cutting flights and jobs as they lose ground in their share price. Just another casualty......

Yes it's bad news,some of my closest friends are pilots and cabin crew for V'Blue,but it's been on the cards for some months as they the domestic market has slowed a fair bit,however V Blue have just started their new international airline,V Australia and they will try and redeploy some staff there,others will be offered leave without pay or offered part time positions,the companies media release which I first saw last wednesday but was not allowed to reveal talks about putting some 5 aircraft in storage until 2010.

In the world aviation market it is much better that they react to the downturn now rather than end up losing millions over the next year and be bankrupt in 2011,which is what could have happened had they not acted now.

They will announce details of route changes on Monday.

Bad news-but could have been worse.

[Guest Dave53]

Don't agree we cannot predict how long this is going to last, only today Japan's economy was reported to be the worst since World War II. I don't care what stockbrokers and bankers say as they didn't predict what happened late last year so how can they predict what will happen in 18 months time.

 

Goodnight.

 

Couldn't agree more ... Last week one so called "expert" was reported as saying that by years end we would all be saying "what recession ?", yet at the same time another empty suit was saying we are about to dive into the worst recession this century . Who do you believe ??? ... All I know is that in the last week alone my son has lost his job as a sales rep in the building industry , and my son in law has lost his job in manufacturing , together with their rented house that has been repossesed by the bank , and they are back with us now . Add to that a mate who has just lost his job as a printer and I think even "blind Feddy " can see the writing on the wall for Australia ... Grim times ahead I feel .:arghh:..

[kernow43]

Couldn't agree more ... Last week one so called "expert" was reported as saying that by years end we would all be saying "what recession ?", yet at the same time another empty suit was saying we are about to dive into the worst recession this century . Who do you believe ??? ... All I know is that in the last week alone my son has lost his job as a sales rep in the building industry , and my son in law has lost his job in manufacturing , together with their rented house that has been repossesed by the bank , and they are back with us now . Add to that a mate who has just lost his job as a printer and I think even "blind Feddy " can see the writing on the wall for Australia ... Grim times ahead I feel .:arghh:..

I agree to a point but nothing like what England is going to suffer!

Why are folks still desperate yes desperate to come here?

[Guest Dave53]

I agree to a point but nothing like what England is going to suffer!

Why are folks still desperate yes desperate to come here?

 

I suppose thats the million $ question !! .... Has me beat ..

[Guest lovediving]

I agree to a point but nothing like what England is going to suffer!

Why are folks still desperate yes desperate to come here?

 

Because they feel that they would be better off I assume and have more opportunities and in some cases they will I am sure.

 

But it definately is no bed of roses here in all industries apart from Medical, I guess if people are smart about things and line up a job first then it will be easier to ride the recession I just hope people do not come here thinking that they will be OK as soon as they land as there are a hell of a lot of people out of work. I heard today Fujitsu are laying off a load of people too which is no surprise I guess considering they are Japanese.

[Guest lovediving]

47,000 job losses at General Motors globally, another casualty again this will affect Australia unfortunately.

[Guest earlswood]

I agree to a point but nothing like what England is going to suffer!

Why are folks still desperate yes desperate to come here?

Both Countries are going to suffer and some trades will be hit harder.....I have never been busier at work in the last few months and if the shops and pubs are anything to go people are not worried as they are very busy.

Desperate to get to Australia? some are desperate to get out of the place.

[Guest lovediving]

So you have no regrets then ?

 

Both Countries are going to suffer and some trades will be hit harder.....I have never been busier at work in the last few months and if the shops and pubs are anything to go people are not worried as they are very busy.

Desperate to get to Australia? some are desperate to get out of the place.

[Guest Andy]

47,000 job losses at General Motors globally, another casualty again this will affect Australia unfortunately.

You really are a right bundle of laughs!

[pablo]

Both Countries are going to suffer and some trades will be hit harder.....I have never been busier at work in the last few months and if the shops and pubs are anything to go people are not worried as they are very busy.

Desperate to get to Australia? some are desperate to get out of the place.

All i can say is that you realy are one of the fortunate ones earl if your that busy,the VAST majority of the brickies i know are out of work mate,(and lets not forget that we are the ones other trades follow on to,so im sure they are not busy either),and im i'm not talking bengal lancers here,im talking good trowels with a good name and loads of contacts,btw earl.......i wish i could say i've "never been so busy" and still be able to spend half the day on a forum!:wink:

[kernow43]

All i can say is that you realy are one of the fortunate ones earl if your that busy,the VAST majority of the brickies i know are out of work mate,(and lets not forget that we are the ones other trades follow on to,so im sure they are not busy either),and im i'm not talking bengal lancers here,im talking good trowels with a good name and loads of contacts,btw earl.......i wish i could say i've "never been so busy" and still be able to spend half the day on a forum!:wink:

Thats right Pablo, electricians follow so soon Earlswood will notice it, but then most likrly he will be the last man standing!

[Guest pongia]

There is probably still shortages in certain professions in certain undesirable places to live.

[Guest earlswood]

Thats right Pablo, electricians follow so soon Earlswood will notice it, but then most likrly he will be the last man standing!

Nahhh, recession has hit both Countries just as hard 18 months everyone will wonder what all the fuss was about....and I am busy at work...that is why I am not on this forum so much....to busy in the office.

[Guest lovediving]

You really are a right bundle of laughs!

 

As this thead is about the recession and job losses, re-read the title, I think that was relevant, sorry you don't like it, suggest you go on to one of the "happy threads".

[Guest Andy]

As this thead is about the recession and job losses, re-read the title, I think that was relevant, sorry you don't like it, suggest you go on to one of the "happy threads".

I will at least I am not likely to run into you!

[Guest lovediving]

Actually you might do as I comment on some of them, but hey you don't have to comment if you dont want to, all you have to do is not type......

 

 

 

 

I will at least I am not likely to run into you!

[Guest treesea]

So why does Australia continue to import so many new migrants when employment is so high?

 

NigelinOz, I take your point - just because a million people are unemployed, it doesn't follow that any of them are trained to do the work that needs to be done. Even so, isn't it better to re-train you own rather than import people already trained from some other country? The lack of retraining opportunities in Australia, which seem to be somewhat more scarce than they were in the last main recession in 1990-1992, doesn't say much about the Australian Government's commitment to people who are already in Australia.

 

From what I can see, Australia isn't going to reduce the numbers of visas it gives out any time soon, even with the recession. The exhorbitant fees would-be migrants have to shell out for their visas, not to mention the costs for the skills assessment hoops they are made to jump through, probably support Australia's embassies worldwide. Sure they want carpenters and bricklayers. What a surprise it must be for them, with 20 years experience, to find, along with plumbers and electricians, that they need to get a licence before they can work, AND that getting the licence, if they have to take a course or two, could cost them an arm and a leg.

 

Having got the migrant into Australia, there's really only an upside from Australia's point of view. The migrant ends up spending a mint in Australia, irrespective of whether they are successful in obtaining work. If they are on a working visa but don't find any work, their visas can be revoked. It really doesn't matter, from the receiving country's point of view, whether the migrant is successful in finding work or not - either way they pay, and that helps to support the people who are already in Australia.

 

They also help to keep housing prices artifically high. This has quite a few positive implications:

- the stamp duty take is higher than it would be without high levels of new migrants;

- the slowdown for the construction industry isn't as sharp as it would have been without the migrants;

- landlords get to charge high enough rentals to cover their costs;

- demand for household related items like fridges, washing machines and the like, is propped up by migration.

 

And the poor old migrant themselves, sucked in with the promise of a better life in Australia, only to find it's quite a struggle and can be hard to make ends meet? I doubt if the Australian Government gives a toss about this group, because at the end of the day, someone's got to pay, and it's the migrant, not the Australian taxpayer. Well, at least until they have survived for 2 years AND got their PR. I suppose the wisdom is, if people make it that far, then they must be standing on their own two feet.

 

My advice to anyone planning to emigrate from the UK to Australia echoes that of some of the people posting on this thread - don't leave behind good jobs here in the UK unless you have a firm offer of employment, in writing, prefearbly with a guarantee of a job for the first couple of years.

 

As to the recession in Australia not going to be as bad as in England, kernow43, I would agree with that. However, if you have a family with, say, two children and you lose your job, and have less than £16,000 in savings (which is probably the vast majority of Brits), the U.K. government will give you £400 or so a week ( income support, child tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit (or payment of mortgage interest up to mortgages of £200,000 after 13 weeks) and council tax benefit) until you get back into work. No matter how many people lose their jobs here, we are all still going to have our roofs over our heads and can still afford to eat and heat our houses.

[Guest AndyJo&Lewis]

Thankyou for a very truthful, unbiased thoughtful post. We are happy here in Australia but agree with everything you say.

 

Thanks

[Guest lovediving]

I agree with everything you say, totally spot on.

 

So why does Australia continue to import so many new migrants when employment is so high?

 

NigelinOz, I take your point - just because a million people are unemployed, it doesn't follow that any of them are trained to do the work that needs to be done. Even so, isn't it better to re-train you own rather than import people already trained from some other country? The lack of retraining opportunities in Australia, which seem to be somewhat more scarce than they were in the last main recession in 1990-1992, doesn't say much about the Australian Government's commitment to people who are already in Australia.

 

From what I can see, Australia isn't going to reduce the numbers of visas it gives out any time soon, even with the recession. The exhorbitant fees would-be migrants have to shell out for their visas, not to mention the costs for the skills assessment hoops they are made to jump through, probably support Australia's embassies worldwide. Sure they want carpenters and bricklayers. What a surprise it must be for them, with 20 years experience, to find, along with plumbers and electricians, that they need to get a licence before they can work, AND that getting the licence, if they have to take a course or two, could cost them an arm and a leg.

 

Having got the migrant into Australia, there's really only an upside from Australia's point of view. The migrant ends up spending a mint in Australia, irrespective of whether they are successful in obtaining work. If they are on a working visa but don't find any work, their visas can be revoked. It really doesn't matter, from the receiving country's point of view, whether the migrant is successful in finding work or not - either way they pay, and that helps to support the people who are already in Australia.

 

They also help to keep housing prices artifically high. This has quite a few positive implications:

- the stamp duty take is higher than it would be without high levels of new migrants;

- the slowdown for the construction industry isn't as sharp as it would have been without the migrants;

- landlords get to charge high enough rentals to cover their costs;

- demand for household related items like fridges, washing machines and the like, is propped up by migration.

 

And the poor old migrant themselves, sucked in with the promise of a better life in Australia, only to find it's quite a struggle and can be hard to make ends meet? I doubt if the Australian Government gives a toss about this group, because at the end of the day, someone's got to pay, and it's the migrant, not the Australian taxpayer. Well, at least until they have survived for 2 years AND got their PR. I suppose the wisdom is, if people make it that far, then they must be standing on their own two feet.

 

My advice to anyone planning to emigrate from the UK to Australia echoes that of some of the people posting on this thread - don't leave behind good jobs here in the UK unless you have a firm offer of employment, in writing, prefearbly with a guarantee of a job for the first couple of years.

 

As to the recession in Australia not going to be as bad as in England, kernow43, I would agree with that. However, if you have a family with, say, two children and you lose your job, and have less than £16,000 in savings (which is probably the vast majority of Brits), the U.K. government will give you £400 or so a week ( income support, child tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit (or payment of mortgage interest up to mortgages of £200,000 after 13 weeks) and council tax benefit) until you get back into work. No matter how many people lose their jobs here, we are all still going to have our roofs over our heads and can still afford to eat and heat our houses.