Tina2 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Can costs be awarded against the party who has broken the law ?I would have thought so. Depends on the judge. We have tried for costs on all occasions but always been told each litgant will pay there own costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Tina, Are you supporting a son whose wife left the country with the kids ? Cant give details that is a big No No in family court action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Okay, although I don't know you from Adam. But at some point if you keep losing it must be that the law favours the other party. I know it is hard to be dispassionate when you are in the middle of it but perhaps your side is in the wrong. That is why I wanted to understand as you keep making disparaging comments with no detail to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Okay, although I don't know you from Adam.But at some point if you keep losing it must be that the law favours the other party. I know it is hard to be dispassionate when you are in the middle of it but perhaps your side is in the wrong. That is why I wanted to understand as you keep making disparaging comments with no detail to back it up. Sorry it seems that way, but anything put on the net be that a forum or even face book that can be linked back to a party involved in a FC case can and will be used against them. same with there being a ban on media reporting on FC cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops13 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have had some fantastic support my family and I would expect nothing less as this is what families do at a time of need. I have also had some great support from many of my wife's closest friends who are now aware of what has happened and are shocked at her actions regardless of the reasons she has given. I have also been very grateful to those people on the forum who have taken the time to comment, give their thoughts or advice or simply shown some compassion by sending good wishes but, there is one thing that really irks me somewhat and that is when people suggest that I should up and move back to the UK in order to be close to my children....? That I should simply leave my job which is the only financial security we have and walk away from the house and area that we have invested so much in...? I am not the one that has loaded my children onto a plane in tears having made up a story as there was no way they would have gone had they know what was planned. I haven't pulled them out of their settled environment and left all their friends behind without even the opportunity to say goodbye, not to mention tearing them away from a father with whom they have always had the very closest of relationships. How anyone could suggest that I should just shrug my shoulders and say....OK then...I'll come over there....? That is the whole reason for the Hague Convention. To stop people just running away and to provide some stability and structure for the children whilst the parents sort out their differences whether that be through separation and divorce or sorting things out. I would be just as unhappy to return to the UK as I don't like living there but more importantly I can't provide for my family to the same degree that I can here. I have been trying to get back to Australia for many years but never once did I consider snatching the children. I wonder how many people would be suggesting my wife should just pack up and follow me had I have done this when I was so low at being stuck in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunt Agatha Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I don't think anyone suggested that you should "just shrug your shoulders" and say "OK then...I'll come over there....?" I know that I made a point of saying that I knew it wasn't fair that you may have to move to the UK etc. when your wife made the decision to take the kids there. I was responding directly to your statement that "For me it is all about the kids and I can honestly say with total conviction that if I could provide for my children the same financial, emotional and physical support in the UK as I can and have always done here in Australia then I would go and sacrifice my own plans for their benefit. The truth of the matter in my situation anyway is that this just isn't the case as the location my wife insists on being is where all her family are and this little town is and will always be a deprived area with high unemployment and a very run down and decaying feel to it." It seemed that you were saying that the reason you wouldn't move to the UK is because you wouldn't be able to find work in the little town where your wife and children live. My suggestion that you consider moving to a different part of the UK addressed THAT point - it was a suggestion that you might be able to find well-paid work in a different part of the country and thus be closer to your children physically and more able to offer emotional support as you'd only be a car ride/train ride away. I am sorry if this irked you, but given what you said, it seemed a perfectly reasonable suggestion. And yes, I would urge any parent separated from children they adore to do everything in their power to be reunited with them - be that via the Hague Convention or moving to a country they don't really want to live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bessie Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 This petition may help everyone PLEASE HELP http://www.change.org/p/permanent-bureau-hague-conference-on-private-international-law-support-the-going-home-together-campaign-2015-stop-the-hague-convention-being-used-as-a-weapon-against-expat-mothers-who-just-want-to-return-home-with-their-children-after-a-failed-reloca?recruiter=168969674&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops13 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 A quick update on my situation and whilst I'm delighted to say that my 10 year old son is back home in Australia and he is beaming, my 14 year old daughter is still in the UK and I continue to fight to have her returned. We were successful in having an order approved by the High Court after my wife agreed to voluntarily allow the children to return. She had no choice but to agree as the judge effectively said she had no case and would have made the judgement anyway. The three of us were booked to fly home on Boxing Day but unfortunately my daughter could not stand up to the pressure that was being place upon her. Despite her being adamant in her CAFCASS report that Australia was home, she wanted to be there and most of all she never wanted to be separated from her brother, she told me that she couldn't leave her Mum who has from day one been telling the children that should they go home to Australia she wouldn't come back and they would not see her for a long time. That is a hard things to put on a sensitive and already emotional 14 year old. After plenty of discussion I agreed to allow Alex to stay but advised her that the court case would now start again. My wife contacted a top law firm in London and arranged to have Alex represented as an individual but this needed to be agreed by a judge. They all went to court last week and the Judge made it clear in no uncertain terms that this was ridiculous. He said that he could see absolutely no reason for Alex to have individual representation and he asked to speak to Alex in private to ascertain her reasons for changing her mind. He said some lovely things about how well she was handling things and how eloquent she had been in their meeting and he stated that he had absolutely no doubt at all that Alex wanted to be in Australia. His judgement was that the original order stands and that Alex is to be collected by me in two weeks and flown home. The issue of parental responsibility was one that he kept referring to and stated that it was disappointing to see that despite agreeing to have the children return home, my wife continues to encourage and pressure my daughter instead of accepting the decision and making the transition an easy one. I am desperate to get my daughter out of the toxic environment she is in and get her home to her brother and am hoping that things go smoothly although I am not holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 A quick update on my situation and whilst I'm delighted to say that my 10 year old son is back home in Australia and he is beaming, my 14 year old daughter is still in the UK and I continue to fight to have her returned. We were successful in having an order approved by the High Court after my wife agreed to voluntarily allow the children to return. She had no choice but to agree as the judge effectively said she had no case and would have made the judgement anyway. The three of us were booked to fly home on Boxing Day but unfortunately my daughter could not stand up to the pressure that was being place upon her. Despite her being adamant in her CAFCASS report that Australia was home, she wanted to be there and most of all she never wanted to be separated from her brother, she told me that she couldn't leave her Mum who has from day one been telling the children that should they go home to Australia she wouldn't come back and they would not see her for a long time. That is a hard things to put on a sensitive and already emotional 14 year old. After plenty of discussion I agreed to allow Alex to stay but advised her that the court case would now start again. My wife contacted a top law firm in London and arranged to have Alex represented as an individual but this needed to be agreed by a judge. They all went to court last week and the Judge made it clear in no uncertain terms that this was ridiculous. He said that he could see absolutely no reason for Alex to have individual representation and he asked to speak to Alex in private to ascertain her reasons for changing her mind. He said some lovely things about how well she was handling things and how eloquent she had been in their meeting and he stated that he had absolutely no doubt at all that Alex wanted to be in Australia. His judgement was that the original order stands and that Alex is to be collected by me in two weeks and flown home. The issue of parental responsibility was one that he kept referring to and stated that it was disappointing to see that despite agreeing to have the children return home, my wife continues to encourage and pressure my daughter instead of accepting the decision and making the transition an easy one. I am desperate to get my daughter out of the toxic environment she is in and get her home to her brother and am hoping that things go smoothly although I am not holding my breath. I am pleased for you but what a heart-breaking situation. I hope thing do go smoothly for you but mainly for Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tappers2oz Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Good luck. I hope the next time goes more smoothly. Sounds like you had a decent judge on the case thankfully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jac2011 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 How lovely for you but what a shame for your daughter having to live with that guilt. I hope when she returns her mum realises what she has done and really makes an effort to be part of their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Nice to hear a story from the Dad's point of view. Unfortunately it is usually very one sided the other way. Best of Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops13 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Delighted to update you all and let you know that both children are now home in Australia. It was an extremely emotional reunion for them both and they are now back to some kind of normality and have picked up where they left off before the whole saga began and are immersed themselves in their school and circle of friends. I would just like to say thank you for all the support I have been given both publicly and via PM's. It has been a long process and an extremely taxing one both emotionally and financially and one that needn't have happened. However, it's all behind us now and we move onto the next hurdle, but we do do so knowing that the children are well cared for and are in a settled environment. Thanks again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Delighted to update you all and let you know that both children are now home in Australia. It was an extremely emotional reunion for them both and they are now back to some kind of normality and have picked up where they left off before the whole saga began and are immersed themselves in their school and circle of friends. I would just like to say thank you for all the support I have been given both publicly and via PM's. It has been a long process and an extremely taxing one both emotionally and financially and one that needn't have happened. However, it's all behind us now and we move onto the next hurdle, but we do do so knowing that the children are well cared for and are in a settled environment. Thanks again.... Good to hear you are now happy and your children are back with you and doing well. May I ask will they still get to visit there mother back in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops13 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hi Tina2..... That is a very good question and I would like to say that the simple answer is of course yes, however, there are a lot of legal guarantees that will need to be put in place before this was to take place. Given the fact she abducted them in the first place my first priority needs to be to safeguard the children so it can never happen again. Finances also come into this as the whole process has crippled us, so something as simple as actually buying the tickets is now a huge undertaking. Having said that I do believe that in an perfect world children would have a both a mother and a father in their lives, but I think we all know there's no such thing as 'perfect' world and it remains to be seen how things progress from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hi Tina2..... That is a very good question and I would like to say that the simple answer is of course yes, however, there are a lot of legal guarantees that will need to be put in place before this was to take place. Given the fact she abducted them in the first place my first priority needs to be to safeguard the children so it can never happen again. Finances also come into this as the whole process has crippled us, so something as simple as actually buying the tickets is now a huge undertaking. Having said that I do believe that in an perfect world children would have a both a mother and a father in their lives, but I think we all know there's no such thing as 'perfect' world and it remains to be seen how things progress from here. Can you get legal aid ? There are lots of community lawyers who work in various area's and are able to give free advise. I only say this because (you may know already) you can put the children on the airport watch list, which means if your ex or "someone" were for example take them from school and to the airport they would not be allowed to travel. Of course you concern is that if they go to the UK on holidays then this might happen all over again. Maybe the simple answer is to have the mother visit Aus to see the children, and being on an airport watch list she would not be able to get them out of the country to return to the UK with her. I hope at the least you will allow SKYPE access on a very regular basis. I more than understand legal costs. Our family has been wiped out by them, even had to sell up and buy a smaller less expencive house. Something really should be done about the cost of lawers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J&T Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Hi. So sorry if I missed the answer to my question, but does anyone know if The Hague Convention criteria includes families on a temporary Business visa? Or does it just apply if you have permanent residency? Kind regards. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Hi. So sorry if I missed the answer to my question, but does anyone know if The Hague Convention criteria includes families on a temporary Business visa? Or does it just apply if you have permanent residency? Kind regards. T Temporary residents are also covered if that's where you are resident for the time being eg on a 457. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J&T Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Thanks Quoll, I was hoping that wouldn't be the case as it's only valid for 5 years. (163 visa). I'll go and have a cry now :-( T/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Thanks Quoll, I was hoping that wouldn't be the case as it's only valid for 5 years. (163 visa). I'll go and have a cry now :-( T/ oh dear, (((hugs))). Perhaps your OH will give permission! You never know your luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 So much info in this thread I just hope people read this before getting on the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) The Hague Convention is gaining a lot of attention right now in the UK with one TV company interested in making a documentary. Also the UK TV program about relocating to AU has also shown interest. If you would like to find out more, there is a Facebook group. Its not just for Mums, its also for Dads. Edited May 22, 2015 by ali FB link removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) The Hague Convention is gaining a lot of attention right now in the UK with one TV company interested in making a documentary. Also the UK TV program about relocating to AU has also shown interest. If you would like to find out more, there is a Facebook group. Its not just for Mums, its also for Dads. Its not just for Mums, its also for Dads. Lets hope this is some sort of turning point and that finally the general public will start to hear of the horrors of the family court. Knowledge is power. If you know what might happen then you can at least prepare for that, it is not knowing and then having your world turned upside down that needs to change Edited May 22, 2015 by ali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The Hague Convention is gaining a lot of attention right now in the UK with one TV company interested in making a documentary. Also the UK TV program about relocating to AU has also shown interest. If you would like to find out more, there is a Facebook group. Its not just for Mums, its also for Dads. Sorry had to remove the FB link which we don't allow. People can pm you for the info if they're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Sorry had to remove the FB link which we don't allow. People can pm you for the info if they're interested. Thats OK Ali, Expat stuck mums is easy for people to find and anyone is welcome to message me if they have difficulties finding the group. But I don't log on here often, is there anyone on here who I could send the link to and if anyone can't find the FB group, they could message that person for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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