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frizzy1

Contributory Aged Parent Visa - a couple of questions....

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    Hi,

     

    My sister has been living in Oz now for two years and has just been notified that she will be getting her residency through shortly which is excellent news!.

     

    My parents are now planning to apply for the Contributory Aged Parent visa via my sisters sponsorship (they are over 65 and in good health etc) and, once they receive that, I am planning to apply for the remaining relative visa through sponsorship from my Sister (I will have no other family outside Oz).

     

    I have a question regarding the visa payments for the Contributory Aged Parent Visa i.e what gets paid and when?. We have been told conflicting information that the large payment needs to be paid up front but others have said that this is paid at the end and then residency is granted approx 6 weeks after receipt of the final payment - could someone who is going through this please confirm?

     

    Also does anyone know the average times from start to finish for receiving the CPV/remaining relative visas? It would be good to managed expectations. From what I have read on here, we could reasonably expect both my mum and dad and myself to be all resident within two years?

     

    Any other thoughts/issues would be welcome - this is my first post so apologies if it has been covered off elsewhere.

     

    Many thanks!

     

    Frizzy

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    Guest Gollywobbler
    Hi,

     

    My sister has been living in Oz now for two years and has just been notified that she will be getting her residency through shortly which is excellent news!.

     

    My parents are now planning to apply for the Contributory Aged Parent visa via my sisters sponsorship (they are over 65 and in good health etc) and, once they receive that, I am planning to apply for the remaining relative visa through sponsorship from my Sister (I will have no other family outside Oz).

     

    I have a question regarding the visa payments for the Contributory Aged Parent Visa i.e what gets paid and when?. We have been told conflicting information that the large payment needs to be paid up front but others have said that this is paid at the end and then residency is granted approx 6 weeks after receipt of the final payment - could someone who is going through this please confirm?

     

    Also does anyone know the average times from start to finish for receiving the CPV/remaining relative visas? It would be good to managed expectations. From what I have read on here, we could reasonably expect both my mum and dad and myself to be all resident within two years?

     

    Any other thoughts/issues would be welcome - this is my first post so apologies if it has been covered off elsewhere.

     

    Many thanks!

     

    Frizzy

     

    Hi Frizzy

     

    Welcome to Poms in Oz.

     

    Do not be tempted to jump the gun with your Parents' visa application. Your sister must get her PR visa through before your Parents apply. I've seen the POPC refuse a CP visa because a Registered Migration Agent jumped the gun about this in 2006/7, which made me chary. If you include a certified copy of your sister's passport page showing her PR visa label on it, this bit cannot go wrong on you all.

     

    You say your Parents intend to apply for the Contributory Aged Parent visa? That is an onshore visa so your Parents cannot make a valid application for it unless their feet are on Australian soil at the time when the application is made. Therefore where are your Parents at the moment and which visa do they currently hold, please?

     

    If they are in Oz on subclass 976 90-day ETA (short stay tourist) visas then there is no problem with launching a CAPV application provided that the CAPV application is lodged before the expiry of the 90-day permitted stay in Australia.

     

    If they are in Oz on a subclass 676 long stay tourist visa, however, permitting a stay of more than 90 unbroken days in Australia, then you need to check their visa conditions very carefully. Specifically, you need to check whether the tourist visas are subject to Condition 8503 - no further stay. If they are subject to Condition 8503 then a CAPV application could not be a valid application: the whole thing would just be chucked back at you, including the fee.

     

    If they are subject to Condition 8503 then your Parents will need to leave Australia before they can do anything else. Once they are outside Australia you would need to apply for the offshore Contributory Parent subclass 143 or 173 visa for them. They would need to be outside Australia on the date when the application is despatched to the POPC and outside Australia on the date when the POPC receive it, for the sake of procedural safety.

     

    Are you sure that you do not have a problem with Condition 8503?

     

    Whether your Parents apply for the offshore CPV or for the onshore CAPV, the payment drills are the same. They need to tender $2,105 AUD with the visa application form, the sponsorship form etc. This one payment covers both Parents and pays DIAC's costs for processing the application.

     

    The big money - the 2nd Instalment - is the final step in the sequence prior to the grant of the visa. It will not be requested until right at the end of the process and it will not be accepted except when paid in response to a formal, written request for the payment. Once it has been requested and paid, the CO will then grant the visas. The period between making the final payment and the grant of the visas varies enormously: it could be anything between 6 hours and 6 weeks depending on what the CO has enough time to do and when.

     

    If your Parents make the application in plenty of time before Friday 24th October 2008, they will beat the increase in the 2nd Instalment which is scheduled for implementation on Monday 27th October 2008. Avoid taking it to the wire if you can: try to ensure that the visa application reaches DIAC by no later than Friday 17th October, I would suggest.

     

    Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

     

    As for the time-scale, the news is not good I am afraid:

     

    Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

     

    There are 600 onshore CAPVs available each year. I would expect the processing to be a bit quicker than for the offshore visas, perhaps, but I would still budget on somewhere around 20 months minimum from the date when the application is formally lodged with DIAC.

     

    You are aware that your Parents must get their CPVs or CAPVs and the visas must have been fully validated before you would be able to make a valid application for a Remaining Relly visa. I have heard that the processing time for Remaining Relly visas is currently around 18 months if the application is made via DIAC in London. I would say that if you assume a time-scale of 4-5 years from now before you will obtain PR as a Remaining Relly you will probably not be far out. Not less than 4 years, anyway.

     

    Please shout if I can help any further at this stage.

     

    Best wishes

     

    Gill

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    Hi, thanks for that.

     

    We will definately be waiting until my Sister has her residency before doing anything- she should have this in October.

     

    My parents are currently still in the UK and were planning to go out on a short term visa to lodge the application once might sister has the residency signed and sealed. Can they then return to the UK once the application is lodge or do they have to stay there (alright for some!). I understand that they can get bridging visas to allow them to stay if they wish?

     

    Its good to have it confirmed that the final instalment is not paid until nearer the end as this will give them a bit more time to get the money together and thanks for advising about the increase in 2nd Vac - do you know what this will be following the increase as I am not sure that they will be able to apply before 24th October as my Sister may not have her residency through then.

     

    Can I just re-clarify the number of onshore CPV visas - is it 600 or 6000?

     

    Its a bit disappointing re the timescales - whilst I did know I had to wait until my parents are granted PR, I was hoping the timescales would be sooner. It does seem nuts to have people who are willing to pay and just want to keep the family together to have to wait so long - seems like I might have a lonely few years icon8.gif

     

    Thanks again for the info - we will no doubt start progressing things for my parents as soon as my sister gets her residency through.

     

    Frizzy

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    Guest Gollywobbler
    Hi, thanks for that.

     

    We will definately be waiting until my Sister has her residency before doing anything- she should have this in October.

     

    My parents are currently still in the UK and were planning to go out on a short term visa to lodge the application once might sister has the residency signed and sealed. Can they then return to the UK once the application is lodge or do they have to stay there (alright for some!). I understand that they can get bridging visas to allow them to stay if they wish?

     

    Its good to have it confirmed that the final instalment is not paid until nearer the end as this will give them a bit more time to get the money together and thanks for advising about the increase in 2nd Vac - do you know what this will be following the increase as I am not sure that they will be able to apply before 24th October as my Sister may not have her residency through then.

     

    Can I just re-clarify the number of onshore CPV visas - is it 600 or 6000?

     

    Its a bit disappointing re the timescales - whilst I did know I had to wait until my parents are granted PR, I was hoping the timescales would be sooner. It does seem nuts to have people who are willing to pay and just want to keep the family together to have to wait so long - seems like I might have a lonely few years icon8.gif

     

    Thanks again for the info - we will no doubt start progressing things for my parents as soon as my sister gets her residency through.

     

    Frizzy

     

    Hi again, Frizzy

     

    I confirm that the total quota of visas in the Contributory Parent Scheme is now 6,500 visas a year. 5,900 of these are reserved for applicants for the offshore CP 143 and 173 visas. The remaining 600 are reserved for applicants for the onshore CAP 864 and 884 visas.

     

    The 2nd Instalment is currently $31,555 per Parent. On 27th October it will rise to $32,725 per Parent as described in Alan Collett's recent news article:

     

    Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

     

    To be honest with you, I think your Parents are making life unnecessarily complicated for themselves with their current proposals. A much easier, safer strategy would be as follows:

     

    Wait for your sister to get PR. Once she has that, Parents apply for an offshore CP 143 or 173 visa. Since they are currently resident offshore (ie outside Australia) the offshore visa is the one they should be seeking in any event.

     

    Once the CPV application is in the system, a special concession in the rules for the subclass 676 long stay tourist visa will kick in. Under this, if your Parents want to spend the processing time for their CPVs waiting in Australia, DIAC will give them a stay of 12 unbroken months at a stretch in Australia if requested:

     

    Tourist Visa (Subclass 676)

     

    DIAC's recent practice has been not to impose Condition 8503 on the long-stay tourist visa when a CPV applicant wants the tourist visa. When the 12 months is up, it will be possible for the Parents to make an onshore application for a further 12 month stay.

     

    They will need to leave Australia in order for the CPV 143 or 173 visas to be granted. However, a week in any of Fiji, Auckland, Singapore or Bali will do for this purpose. Whichever is nearest and cheapest, basically. Your Parents can then return to Oz as soon as their CPVs have been granted and that will be that.

     

    The method I describe is the one we used with my own mother in 2005 & 2006 whilst her CPV 143 application was being processed and it worked like a charm. I know loads of other Parents who are doing the same.

     

    The risks with your Parents' current proposal are as follows:

     

    They would have to distort the truth in order to obtain the 90-day ETAs. The Migration Regulations state:

     

    976.22 Criteria to be satisfied at time of decision

     

     

     

    976.221 The applicant holds a passport that is an ETA‑eligible passport in relation to this Subclass.

     

     

     

     

     

    976.222 The applicant states an intention only to visit Australia temporarily for tourism purposes.

     

     

     

     

     

    Somebody who intends to enter Australia for the purpose of making an onshore application for permission to remain in Australia indefinitely cannot possibly comply with S976.222.

     

     

     

     

    The person would have to fib about his or her intentions, first in the application for the sub-class 976 90-day ETA visa, then in the passenger card on the plane (which asks about the purpose of the visit and the proposed duration of stay) and again at Immigration Control on arrival in Australia if the DIAC Officer asks any questions - which s/he is perfectly entitled to do.

     

    The next problem that would arise with the CAPV route is that your Parents would need to seek permission to remain in Australia on a Bridging Visa, because a CAPV cannot be granted unless the applicant for it is in Australia at the time of the application and in Australia when the visa is ready for grant. If the visa applicant is outside Australia at the relevant time, DIAC would have every right to refuse the application.

     

     

    Your Parents would be given a Bridging Visa A. This visa would enable them to remain in Australia until the outcome of the CAPV application is known, but a Bridging Visa A does not give a right of re-entry to Oz. DIAC would not prevent the holder of a BV A from leaving Australia, but it would not let them back in to Australia on it.

     

     

     

     

    Therefore if your Parents wanted to leave Australia at any time during the processing period for the CAPV, they would have to apply for a Bridging Visa B ("the travel visa") before leaving Oz:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    The information form states that a BV B will only be forthcoming if the applicant can show a "substantial reason" for leaving Oz for a spell before returning to Oz. In practice DIAC interpret that generously, but your Parents would be restricted to spending no more than a maximum of 90 days a year outside of Australia on a BV B. Go over the 90 days and the right to return to Oz would be lost. It is not even possible to apply for a Bridging Visa from anywhere outside Australia.

     

     

     

     

    Therefore if DIAC wanted to shaft your Parents, there is a simple legal trap that they could bait, set and spring:

     

     

     

     

    Wait for your Parents to leave Oz for some reason. As soon as they leave, invoke the Early Decision procedure for their CAPV application. Alas & alack - the CAPV applicants are not in Australia when DIAC would otherwise have been ready to grant the CAPV. The CAPV application must therefore be refused.

     

     

     

     

    I do not think for a second that DIAC would be so spiteful and unreasonable: but they do have all the legal machinery that they could need if they choose to have a crackdown on the practice of people taking Australia's visa-generosity for granted in the way that so many foreign nationals do. The visa system is based upon trust: upon the notion that people will tell DIAC the truth about their intentions when seeking a visa for Oz. There is a perfectly good visa alternative that would reflect what your parents would like, it seems to me, so I suspect that they would simply be making a rod for their own backs, unnecessarily.

     

     

     

     

    The offshore route simply avoids the need to do anything that has the effect of trapping the Parent in Oz, I suggest. Plus it avoids the need to go traipsing around seeking Bridging Visas and explaining themselves to DIAC. They can apply for long-stay tourist visas on line. All they have to do is to point to the CPV application and 12 months in Oz is a certainty for them if they want it.

     

     

     

     

    If they are unsure about staying in Oz for the duration of the processing period for a CAPV (during which time they would need special permission to work in Oz if they want to work in Oz - which permission might or might not be given) then I would say that the current plan is too complicated to be worthwhile? I can't see what advantage it would really achieve?

     

     

     

     

    Best wishes

     

     

     

     

    Gill

     

     

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    Gill,

     

    Thanks for all this - this is excellent.

     

    As my parents are "aged" we thought they could only apply for the "aged" parent visa which is only availble onshore - is not the case i.e can they apply for the normal contributory parent visa despite their age?

     

    If so, that is good news -as you have said it makes things a lot easier AND there are more places allocated to offshore applicants.

     

    Thanks again.

     

    Frizzy

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    Guest Gollywobbler

    Hi Frizzy

     

    You are not alone, I can tell you! My mother was 85 when her CPV 143 (offshore) visa was granted exactly two years ago. The year before in 2005 she had returned to the UK from visiting my sister in Perth and I felt that the travel was becoming too much for Mum.

     

    We had had endless hassle with the Balance of Family test for years because although Mum only has two children of her own - myself in the UK and Elaine out in Oz - Mum also has a UK-based stepdaughter who is my late father's daughter by his first wife. Even after Dad's death in 1991 DIAC treated all 3 of us as Mum's "children" even though there is no biological link between Mum and Ann and no legal link between them either following Dad's death. It was completely illogical: the relationship between step-parent and step-child is derivative. It cannot come into being without the contract of marriage and Dad's death had severed the contract of marriage. Therefore his death must have severed the step-relationship at the same time but DIAC insisted that this was not the case according to Australian Law.

     

    In 2005 I decided to give it one final try just in case - by some quirk of chance - legal logic had finally succeeded in penetrating in Canberra. To my astonishment it had, following a Migration Review Tribunal hearing on a virtually identical set of facts 18 months earlier.

     

    So - the Balance of Family finally resolved in Mum's favour, the next question was which one out of a confusing jumble of visas was meant to be the right one to choose?

     

    Like you, I was completely foxed by the word "Aged." Mum is undoubtedly aged. So did it mean that she was supposed to travel to Oz in order to apply for the Aged version of the visa? If so, which visa was she meant to use in order to travel to Oz for the purpose?

     

    The old DIAC website said coyly, "You may be entitled to a Bridging Visa...." Right. So was Mum meant to get one of these Bridging Visas in order to travel to Oz, then? What is a Bridging Visa anyway? Four hours later I was an expert on Bridging Visas and it was obvious that the website had led me up the garden path with that notion.

     

    Eventually the penny dropped that "Aged" means "Onshore" in this context. You could never discover that from consulting a dictionary, however.

     

    Why on earth they couldn't simply have called it the Contributory Parent (Onshore) and the Contributory Parent (Offshore) is anyone's guess, frankly!

     

    I am not surprised that the terminology foxed you as much as it did me.

     

    Best wishes

     

    Gill

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    Gill,

     

    Thanks for that - thats brilliant news and glad I am not the only one getting confused here lol!

     

    O.k your suggestion sounds much better so I will discuss this with my sister - it also hopefully means they now have more of chance of getting in a bit sooner with the allocation being higher.

     

    For many many years we had wanted to move to Oz and its only now that it looks like it might become a reality with my sister making the first move. Its just so frustrating though, knowing you can now get in but it might take 4 years in total!

     

    Unfortunately they didnt tell me in school that being a hairdresser, nurse etc would get me in so I took a job as an Account Development Manager in Insurance - from the skills list I dont seem to fit in anywhere so cant get in this way although I guess I could also try the employer sponsorship if I want to try and move sooner. Not being there its very difficult to know just how easy/hard it is to get employer sponsorship for this type of job but my plan is to visit Oz next year and do a rekky by meeting some agencies etc.

     

    Thanks again for all your help - no doubt there will be more questions as we proceed!

     

    Frizz

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    Gill,

     

    Sorry, just a couple more questions!

     

    In the literature we have it says that for a Contributory Parent Visa (offshore) that the first vac doesnt need to be paid however on the immigration website it says regardless of which visa (offshore or onshore) the 1st vac does need to be paid - do you know which is correct? We are assuming it does have to be paid.

     

    Also, do you know whether my sister has to prove her eligilibity to be a sponsor before my mum and dad apply or does this happen at the same time as my Mum and Dads application goes through?

     

    Finally, once the request for the 2nd vac comes through, what is the time limit for paying this i.e is it within 28 days etc

     

    Thanks again.

     

    Frizz

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    Guest Gollywobbler
    Gill,

     

    Sorry, just a couple more questions!

     

    In the literature we have it says that for a Contributory Parent Visa (offshore) that the first vac doesnt need to be paid however on the immigration website it says regardless of which visa (offshore or onshore) the 1st vac does need to be paid - do you know which is correct? We are assuming it does have to be paid.

     

    Also, do you know whether my sister has to prove her eligilibity to be a sponsor before my mum and dad apply or does this happen at the same time as my Mum and Dads application goes through?

     

    Thanks again.

     

    Frizz

     

    Hi Frizz

     

    There is machinery whereby if you have applied for a non-contributory Parent 103 or Aged Parent 804 visa and you change your mind and switch into the CPV or CAPV scheme, you can switch without paying the 1st Instalment again. However without a prior Parent application, the 1st Instalment must accompany the CPV or CAPV application.

     

    No - they check your sister's eligibility to Sponsor at the same time as checking whether the Balance of Family test is met etc. Your sister simply needs to complete Form 40 and send the relevant supporting documents to go with it. My sister is an Australian Citizen, so we produced her passport, her marriage certificate and her Citizenship certificate to go with Form 40. Elaine's birth certificate was elsewhere in the bundle of documents, to prove that she was the relevant Child in relation to Mum.

     

    You are meant to prove where you live according to the Checklist for the visa. So was I. At the last minute, I realised that I had forgotten to copy my passport and anyway that does not prove where I live. However, the legislation contains a "default provision." If the whereabouts of the other children are not proven, the legislation assumes that they are in the Parent's country of origin.

     

    Therefore I figured that there was no need to prove where I live. The legislation would default to the right result without any need for intervention from me! That decided, I posted the bundle and no questions were ever asked about me. We produced my birth certificate but absolutely nothing else about me.

     

    They ask for the 2nd Instalment to be paid within 28 days of the request but in practice if you need more time and you explain why to your Parents' CO they are very accommodating about it. They impose deadlines solely so they they can prevent visa applicants from mucking them around with promises about something that might vaguely happen manana. As long as the CO knows that there is a house in the UK that needs to be sold or whatever, is aware of what is happening about that etc, the COs are content to wait for the money.

     

    Best wishes

     

    Gill

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    Guest etomova

    Hello Gill,

    It looks like you are very experienced in parent contribution visas and I would like to ask you few things:

    My parents have applied for PCV beginning of December 2007 and got their acknowledgment letter on 17th of December. As far as I understood from an article in go matilda -http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=465 my parents are not likely to get their visa by the end of the year.

    As they are desperate to come by Christmas I am looking for other options as applying for a tourist visa as you mentioned.

    However is this legal and allowed by the Department?

    How do we point to CPA application when applying for tourist visa?

    If my parents are given a tourist visa, would that slow down the CPA process?

    Are there any hidden risks?

    Thank you!

     

    Elly

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    Guest Gollywobbler

    Hello Elly

     

    Welcome to Poms in Oz.

     

    No, there are no hidden risks in applying for a tourist visa as well and no, it does not slow the CPV process down either. It simply enables the waiting CPV applicants to spend extended periods in Oz during the endless wait for the CPV if they want to - no more, no less. My mother spent most of the waiting time for her CPV 143 out in Oz. (She'd have refused to sign Form 47PA if I had not promised her the tourist visa as well, that is for sure.)

     

    I've never made or seen an on-line application for a long-stay tourist visa so I don't know what questions the on-line form asks and I also don't know whether you can scan and upload supporting documents such as letters and the meds form (if the latter is required.)

     

    If your Parents are British, I reckon the simplest system by miles is just to ask them to complete Forms 48 (one each) and send them to the Australian High Commission in London with their passports, the fee-mandate etc. Even doing it by paper & post only takes a maximum of two weeks, even in November and December when demand is at its greatest, so there is plenty of time to get tourist visas for them. October and November are traditionally cheaper for flights to Oz than December and January, so I'd suggest aiming to get your Parents into Oz by 30th November at the latest.

     

    If your Parents are British and the tourist application will be made via London, and one or both of them is/are 70 or over, they need to get their GP to complete a simple form of medical certificate which is here:

     

    http://www.uk.embassy.gov.au/lhlh/files/0024A%5fMedical%5fCertificate%5fPro%5fForma%20%5f%20Over%2070%2epdf

     

    It is in the Health Section on the website of the Australian High Commission in London. The GP can charge for completing the form because it is not clinically necessary, so the NHS won't pay for the GP's time in completing it. Some don't charge, otherc charge £60 and anything in between is possible. If they need the meds form, ask your parents to do that first and send it with the visa application.

     

    The long stay tourist visa is a subclass 676 visa. I tend to refer to it as "the 676" for short:

     

    Tourist Visa (Subclass 676)

     

    Despite what the description says, DIAC do not insist on private medical insurance if the Parents are from a countrry that has a reciprocal health care agreement with Oz, which the UK has:

     

    Visitors to Australia - Medicare Australia

     

    The following only applies if your Parents are British and they decide to make the application by paper & post: I have no experience of this visa for anyone except my Mum, who is British.

     

    Tourist Visa (Subclass 676)

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/48r.pdf

     

    Questions 35 & 36 ask about other visa applications. Put the details of the CPV application and put "acknowledgement letter enclosed". Send a copy of the ack letter plus a covering letter from your parents with the application explaining that given the current delays with CPV processing, they would like to spend as much time as possible in Oz during the wait.

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/_pdf/676-visa-checklist.pdf

     

    The check list is useful so advise your parents to use it, I suggest.

     

    The fee is $100 AUD each. Pay it by debit or credit card using this form:

     

    http://www.uk.embassy.gov.au/lhlh/files/0013A%5fCredit%5fCard%5fMandate%2epdf

     

    It seems daunting but it is a cakewalk compared to preparing the CPV application, so you will be fine!

     

    Send the passports with the applications and send the whole lot by Special Delivery, with a re-paid special delivery silver pouch for the return of the passports. Your parents' local post office can supply the silver pouch. The price will depend on the weight of the two passports inside it plus one sheet of A4 which is the Grant letter.

     

    Please shout if you need further help.

     

    Best wishes

     

    Gill

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    Guest etomova

    Dear Gill,

    Thank you so much for your help and valuable advices! I really appreciate it.

    My mum and dad are not UK citizens, they are Bulgarians. I just applied for short stay tourist visas on line with the hope that they will be given 3 months visas. If their CPV is not granted during these 3 months I hope they can expend it with another 3.

    I have also clarified in the application the reasons they are coming - to wait for their CPV visa. So I hope there won't be any complications.

    Once I hear something from the department I will update this posting for others who might be looking for the same questions.

    Thank you very much once again!

    Elly

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    Guest ssjosan
    Hello Gill,

     

    It looks like you are very experienced in parent contribution visas and I would like to ask you few things:

     

    My parents have applied for PCV beginning of December 2007 and got their acknowledgment letter on 17th of December. As far as I understood from an article in go matilda -http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=465 my parents are not likely to get their visa by the end of the year.

     

    As they are desperate to come by Christmas I am looking for other options as applying for a tourist visa as you mentioned.

     

    However is this legal and allowed by the Department?

    How do we point to CPA application when applying for tourist visa?

    If my parents are given a tourist visa, would that slow down the CPA process?

    Are there any hidden risks?

    Thank you!

     

    Elly

     

    Hello Gill

    My daughter(I have 2 kids) is a permanent resident of Australia and living there for last 6 months but still without job. I am applying for my immigration under category CPV 173, is it possible to submit my visa application now with my daughter as a sponsor.

    regards

    Shaminder Singh

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    Guest Gollywobbler
    Hello Gill

    My daughter(I have 2 kids) is a permanent resident of Australia and living there for last 6 months but still without job. I am applying for my immigration under category CPV 173, is it possible to submit my visa application now with my daughter as a sponsor.

    regards

    Shaminder Singh

     

    Hi Shaminder

     

    In my opinion, you would run a significant risk of your CPV 173 application being refused if you are not 100% satisfied that your child in Oz is a "settled" Permanent Resident by the time the child tries to sponsor you for a CPV or your wife for a non-contributory Parent visa.

     

    All that happens when a visa application reaches the Parents Visa Centre is that they check it for basic validity. If Form 47PA and Form 40 are in the bundle and the fee (currently $1,735 AUD) is proferred as well then the application is valid.

     

    They do not consider the details - did the Sponsor have PR at the time of the application and was the Sponsor properly *settled* at the time of the application - until about 15 months later, when a Case Officer gets involved for the first time. If the CO is not satisfied at that later stage then the visa application must be - not might be but *must* be - refused. They are fierce about this because the first line of the legislation says that the Sponsor *must* be a "settled Permanent Resident..." at the time of the application.

     

    Therefore it comes down to defining the word "settled" - which can only be done according to the relevant facts. Please:

     

    • study the article below;

    • study the two MRT cases cited in the article;

    • read the Naiker case, for which the link is given in the two MRT cases;

    • contact the Parents Visa Centre and/or Alan Collett of Go Matilda if you get stuck.

     

     

    Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

     

    Although the title of Alan's article refers to CPVs, what he says applies equally to ALL of the visas that have the word "Parent" in their names. The legislation for each of the visas is identical about the idea that the Sponsor must have PR and must be "settled" in Oz.

     

    The PVC can be e-mailed on parents@immi.gov.au but they might decide to tell you only that the legislation says that the sponsor must be "a settled PR" - which you already know. What they will NOT do is to commit themselves to anything until a CO gets round to studying a detailed visa application - for which you will have paid $1,735 AUD and you will lose that money, and you will have to start the process all over again, paying a new fee, if the PVC refuse the visa in 18 months or so's time.

     

    If the PVC decide to be unhelpful and to tell you nothing that you do not already know, you only have two choices left, being:

    1. Make a decision by yourself, based on what you alone think, and hope for the best; or

    2. Consult Alan Collett or another Registered Migration Agent and see what s/he thinks.

     

    Alan Collett lives near Melbourne, though that doesn't matter unless you or your child is thinking of a face-to-face appointment with Alan. I mention it only in case Melbourne might be convenient for your own family.

     

    Alan has made a very careful study of the sorts of facts that will be likely to prove whether or not the sponsor is a settled PR by the time the Parent applies for the visa. Alan has no intention of vanishing if he gets this one wrong - if he gets it wrong, either he or his Professional Indemnity insurers would have to pay up instead. A lesser RMA might not know about this particular problem in any detail plus s/he might simply have vanished by the time the PVC might become nasty, in any case.

     

    You have told us that your child in Oz has been there for 6 months, has PR but does not have a job. You have not told us anything else about your child. Has the child bought a house? Does the child have a spouse and children of his/her own? If so, what is the story with them? Why does your own child not have a job? Jobs are easy to come by in Oz if somebody is determined to work, albeit that the job might not be in the occupation that the child has skill and experience in doing. But it is not difficult to get "a job," so why hasn't your child managed to find one?

     

    I do NOT expect you to answer all those questions on Poms in Oz and there is no point in discussing the details with me because I am not a migration agent. I would not be prepared to get involved to the extent of asking for the relevant paperwork and studying that - because if your child is properly "settled" then the paper-trail will provide convincing proof about this.

     

    No migration agent worth his/her salt would put his/her PI insurance on the line for the sake of nothing but assertions made by you and/or your child. Neither will the PVC stake DIAC's reputation on anything other than a completed visa application and then examining the paperwork in due course.

     

    Apart from the fact that I am not willing to get involved in the detailed hassle of working this question out with anybody, I also don't have any PI insurance for doing so - which is the best possible reason for not asking me to get involved with it in detail, frankly.

     

    I am not trying to be unhelpful. On the contrary, I am trying to protect you, hon.

     

    If I were asked, I would simply refer the person to Alan Collett because he has made visa applications for clients on the basis that the Sponsor might not have lived in Oz for very long but the Sponsor is nevertheless settled. I have never done it for real, whereas Alan has, so he would be much more use to a client than I would be in any case. Plus he likes Immi Law work. I'm interested in some of it but purely from the stand-point of academic law. I am not interested in practising in this field of law for real - my own interest in it is only a hobby where I am concerned.

     

    Plus I am fussy, precisely because it is only an academic law hobby for me. I am fascinated by certain bits and pieces but I have no interest at all in any of the rest. That is a hobbyist's attitude. It is not a practitioner's attitude. Like a doctor in general practice, it is useless to say, "Well, Bloggs, it does seem that you have a bit of a problem with your lungs but since I am not interested in lungs, I haven't a clue about what might be wrong with your own....." My own attitude makes it fine to chip in with some of the threads on PiO because it happens to be a piece of law that I am interested in myself, but a "proper migration agent" has to at least show willing and make a slight effort to learn about some of the issues that do not interest the agent concerned. I don't do that and I don't see why I should when I am not trying to earn any money from any of it anyway.

     

    Clients who want legal advice in the UK - about things that I know about in detail and want to know about in detail - are enough hard work without my wanting to take responsibility for Aussie Immi law clients in my spare time as well, frankly!

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Can anyone please help me? I am currently living in France. May Daughter is living in Australia and has perm.residency.. I would like to start the ball rolling and apply for a contributory parent visa.. How do I go about this.. Is there a form that I can download..Do I pay for this and if so how much. When applying do I pay any money upfront.. I will have to sell my house to finance this.So many questions...There must be someone out there who has been thriugh this or possibly at the stage as me.. Many thanks in advance..

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    Can anyone please help me? I am currently living in France. May Daughter is living in Australia and has perm.residency.. I would like to start the ball rolling and apply for a contributory parent visa.. How do I go about this.. Is there a form that I can download..Do I pay for this and if so how much. When applying do I pay any money upfront.. I will have to sell my house to finance this.So many questions...There must be someone out there who has been thriugh this or possibly at the stage as me.. Many thanks in advance..

     

     

    Hi

     

    Here is the link to the Australian DIAC site to get you started.

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/parent-outside.htm

     

    Here is the link to the charges:

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/990i/parent.htm

     

    You can also find the forms here:

     

    Application Forms – Numerical List – Forms 1 to 99

     

     

    You should also download Booklet 3 which gives all the information:

     

    Information Booklets - Applications & Forms - Visas & Immigration

     

    You need to pass the Balance of Family test, ie you must have more children in Oz than outside. Your daughter needs to be 'settled' in Oz, usually 2 years, but can be less if she can prove she is settled, job, house, part of the community etc.

     

    You only pay the initial Visa Application charge of $1735 and then you will be asked to pay everything else at the end of the process if the medical and police checks are in order.

     

    http://www.chireckles.com/cpv/tracker.php

     

    There is also a Parent Visa thread which is a sticky at the top of this forum where there are lots of helpful, knowledgeable people, so if you have any more questions feel free to post on there. Good luck.

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    Many many thanks Linday.. the info. is the best.. Need some time to digest it all..and lots of downloading.. Wonderful to know that there are people who are willing to help. Many thanks again. Restellou 44

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    Many many thanks Linday.. the info. is the best.. Need some time to digest it all..and lots of downloading.. Wonderful to know that there are people who are willing to help. Many thanks again. Restellou 44

     

    No problem. We all have to start somewhere and I have found the information on threads on here invaluable so it's nice to be able to give something back. As I said, there is a parent visa thread at the top of the forum and if you have any more queries it might be better to post on there. There are lots of nice people on there willing to help, but they may not read any of the other threads.

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    Can anyone please help ? I am currently living in France.. who do I go to in order to get my copies of documentation signed.. I phoned Australia thiis am.. but their office was closed by 2.0,clock. 2nd question.. re Payment details.. as I will be paying by credit card..I am anxious that someone will get hold of my details ..if my application gets lost in the post. has anyone else payed their application fee my credit card.?.. thanks in anticipation... Helen

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    Can anyone please help ? I am currently living in France.. who do I go to in order to get my copies of documentation signed.. I phoned Australia thiis am.. but their office was closed by 2.0,clock. 2nd question.. re Payment details.. as I will be paying by credit card..I am anxious that someone will get hold of my details ..if my application gets lost in the post. has anyone else payed their application fee my credit card.?.. thanks in anticipation... Helen

     

     

    Hi Helen

    Not sure about France, but normally in the UK you can get a solicitor to certifiy your documents, costs vary from around £5 to £30 depending on the solicitor.

     

    Here's the official list:

     

    1. Practising lawyer / Solicitor / Solicitor

    2. Magistrate / Magistrate / n/a

    3. Public notary / Notary Public / Notary Public

    4. Justice of the Peace / Justice of the Peace / n/a

    5. Commissioner of Declaration / Commissioner for Oaths / Commissioner for Oaths

    6. Position/agency recognised by the law of the country to certify documents

    7. Officer of a Court appointed by a Judge to take affidavits

    8. Peace Commissioner

     

    And yes, we did pay our initial VAC by credit card, but we sent our documents by courier to be on the safe side.

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    Can anyone please help ? I am currently living in France.. who do I go to in order to get my copies of documentation signed.. I phoned Australia thiis am.. but their office was closed by 2.0,clock. 2nd question.. re Payment details.. as I will be paying by credit card..I am anxious that someone will get hold of my details ..if my application gets lost in the post. has anyone else payed their application fee my credit card.?.. thanks in anticipation... Helen

     

    Hey Helen

     

    I'm French too and got to have certified copies of my documents as well. You can get them certified by a notaire but make sure their COMPLETE address including phone number, fax numbers, and any registration number they might have as a notaire are on each page of the documents you are getting certified. Otherwise you might get to redo the whole lot later one - that happened to me!

     

    Regarding the credit card payment details I can;t help you with that as I am going through an agent and he does the job for me, including payment.

     

    Good luck!


    Skills assess. submitted @VETASSESS : 14/10/2010

    Nomin. & applic. lodged @Parramatta (non-DRC) : 27/09/11

    Nomination and visa approved : 14/12/2011 (for full timeline see my bio/About Me)

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    Guest thestones

    Hi

    We are revisted users to this great forum. We used this back in 2008 when we were applying for a 457 visa to move to this great country wa a great help. Well 2 1/2 years later we have applied for our permenant visa's which are expected in a few weeks,finally we will feel secure. My parents came over on a ETA visa last year and loved it and have sold up and would love to come here with us as i am the only child and grand children. They are both retired and the small amount of money they have from the house sale along with their uk pensions is all they have so the contributory visa is out of the question.

    My question we have been here for 2 years 8 months on a 457 visa,we are buying our own house,our children are in schooling and i have a full time job. Our permenant visa is due and day now would the time we have spent here plus say we wait 12 months to apply for the aged parent visa be enough to be 'setttled'.

    I would be grateful for any assisstance.

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    Hi.. I received some ifo onthis only last week, as I am applying myself for a contributory parent visa.. May daughter has lived in WA for nearly 2 years (next month).. I emailed Perth to ask the asame question... the response was.... usually about 2 years..and settled.. Hope this answers your question.. You could email Perth to be definite... they are very quick with responding.. Good luck.. Keep in touch.. Which part of wa are you living ?. Helen xxx

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    Guest

    Hi There

    The folks on your webite were correct. We have waited for about 18 months for a case officer to be appointed but have one now. We started the process in December 2009 and heard in June 2011 that a case officer had been apponted. All we are waiting for now are the hard copy CRB checks to reach the case officer in OZ and I guess we will then be asked for the $68880 second payment. It's a long road and I hope it will be completed soon !

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    Guest guest36187

    The stones.....

     

    I came on a 457 in feb 2005. I got PR in Jan 07. Parent applied for CPV in feb 07. All was good!

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