Deciding if I should move back to Aus with children

[Tulip1]

5 hours ago, Parley said:

I'm always amazed how people resent paying for things like doctors and dentists. I think this is a very English thing to expect to waltz through life not paying for services from hard working professionals.

I have no problem paying for expert advice or service from people who have studied for many years to get their experience and qualifications.

It’s what we are born into.  The NHS is free healthcare from the cradle to the grave.  Pretty much everything medical is free.  If something has always come free is can be a shock to pay for it.  I guess it’s no different from sending kids to school for free.  If parents (here and there) suddenly had to pay for that professional service when they’ve been reassured from the start it was free it would come as a shock.   Some here do have private medical insurance and some that are able do pay for things to speed it up.  Many believe they do pay for that professional service through their taxes.  

[DrDougster]

3 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Well if you were/are a doctor, one may assume you would be wise to the situation. I never claimed it was as stretched as UK , just on a similar path. It is hard to match twelve years of Tory austerity. Even then it would depend on where exactly in the UK one lives as to the treatment.

Now I refer to WA. Actually it was The Health Minister Cook who stated in 2022, (while addressing nurses)  " We know that staff are struggling. WE know morale is low. We know that the system is under pressure"

500 Code Yellows over 2021-22. (Ramping crisis. Well discussed over the media surprised you missed it)  Actually one of our main hospitals, Sir Charles Gardiner, went into Code Yellow 144 times alone.

Maternity Hospital King Edward Memorial had 30 code Yellows.

7000 hours paramedics made to wait to transfer their patents to care of hospitals. That was just for the month of July 2022.There was reported inadequate funding over the five years that the present government was in power. 

2,463 ambulance ramping's just in first 11 days of August 2022.

Man power shortages included..

100 Midwives

350 Junior Doctors. 

A senior clinician at that time, predicted "carnage" at WA hospitals . They said "The system is broken and compromised because people are broken at burned out".

Emergency Dept consultants raised their voices as well and told the doctors union that the situation was "dire". 

It would be wrong of me to leave out the death of baby Aishwarya. This highlighted staff shortages and resulted in nearly 1,000 nurses and doctors highlighting the problems that had been raised for years by means of protest. (a result of a 2 hour wait to be seen for medical attention) 

That did provoke a degree of tension between government, hospital administration, staff and union. 

No. Perhaps not yet as bad , as the worst case examples in UK, but bad enough for a wealthy state, with a small population but unable to cope. 

 

This is just rambling nonsense. 

Take one of your points: "Actually one of our main hospitals, Sir Charles Gairdner, went into code Yellow 144 times alone."

Do you know what this means? It means at that point there's bed pressure. So 144 times there was acute bed pressure that was then resolved. Do you hold this up as an example of a system in crisis?

At Sir Charles Gairdner this year there is big expansion of services. For example, new services to support outpatient antibiotic services, a new CT scanner, four new respiratory specialists and staff to bring down wait times, improve care and all through public funding.

Yes things aren't perfect, they won't be in a public service, but to even draw an analogy to the NHS is bonkers. There will always be underfunded, understaffed areas but you appear to have absolutely no real knowledge of this area beyond that which can be gleaned from a keyboard.

[Blue Flu]

1 hour ago, DrDougster said:

This is just rambling nonsense. 

Take one of your points: "Actually one of our main hospitals, Sir Charles Gairdner, went into code Yellow 144 times alone."

Do you know what this means? It means at that point there's bed pressure. So 144 times there was acute bed pressure that was then resolved. Do you hold this up as an example of a system in crisis?

At Sir Charles Gairdner this year there is big expansion of services. For example, new services to support outpatient antibiotic services, a new CT scanner, four new respiratory specialists and staff to bring down wait times, improve care and all through public funding.

Yes things aren't perfect, they won't be in a public service, but to even draw an analogy to the NHS is bonkers. There will always be underfunded, understaffed areas but you appear to have absolutely no real knowledge of this area beyond that which can be gleaned from a keyboard.

Rambling nonsense that unfortunately you have not in a position to  answer . I know exactly what Yellow Code means. How patronising , even if unable to rebuke any thing that was suggestive that the system was in trouble. Talk to some of the staff and discover at least among some of them the disgruntlement of woprking conditions. 

Of course there has been a big expansion in services. There had to be after years of decline .Hence the massive drive recently for staff in UK and Ireland , not only to replace the lack of specialists and nurses, but an attempt to drive up police numbers who are leaving in record numbers and teachers . 

You are wrong again. The NHS under the Blair government was quite well funded. You could check out how waiting times have escalated and conditions declined under the Tory austerity. (you may need to acquire that through a key board though of course) 

While some changes are most definitely needed there is no reason why the NHS needs to be permanently under funded and under staffed. Britain will have the health service it deserves. That may well require changes in how it is funded. A Scandinavian model could be the way forward . Not necessary to go down the American route.

I wonder if this poster is a recruiter of overseas  NHS staff? It does sound a little sus to me with the discredit attempt of the reality on the ground?. 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Blue Flu

[Blue Flu]

2 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

It’s what we are born into.  The NHS is free healthcare from the cradle to the grave.  Pretty much everything medical is free.  If something has always come free is can be a shock to pay for it.  I guess it’s no different from sending kids to school for free.  If parents (here and there) suddenly had to pay for that professional service when they’ve been reassured from the start it was free it would come as a shock.   Some here do have private medical insurance and some that are able do pay for things to speed it up.  Many believe they do pay for that professional service through their taxes.  

Quite so. Britain's NHS was once said to be the envy of the world. With a few changes, it could be restored to at least something along Nordic lines. People will be required to pay more impost and sadly those in a position to do so, appear reluctant at best to contribute to greater equality. 

A World class health system open to all should in my opinion be the most desirable policy a nation can possess. (which should include social care) 

[Blue Manna]

2 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

It’s what we are born into.  The NHS is free healthcare from the cradle to the grave.  Pretty much everything medical is free.  If something has always come free is can be a shock to pay for it.  I guess it’s no different from sending kids to school for free.  If parents (here and there) suddenly had to pay for that professional service when they’ve been reassured from the start it was free it would come as a shock.   Some here do have private medical insurance and some that are able do pay for things to speed it up.  Many believe they do pay for that professional service through their taxes.  

We do pay for that professional service through taxation, in both the UK and Australia, although it would be free for those who don't pay tax I guess. Possibly the Australian system where they bill you, and you claim the money back would be better for the NHS like Medicare? At least then people would have an understanding of the cost of healthcare, and could possibly use it more widely. It would also stop NHS tourism. But I guess there would be an administrative cost to process it. Although it would enable the introduction of a partial payment system, which has its pros and cons. The danger is that if people think it's free, they won't value and respect it. As an aside, saw "this is going to hurt" recently. Absolutely brilliant. Scary, but brilliant.

[dilby]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far, however I'm suprised how health care systems seem to be the primary issue that keep coming up when discussing a move. I suppose a lot of it is to do with the fact that so many expats work in health care, and how it's a favourite topic for the media. My experience is both health care services have enough issues to make neither a voting factor on where I live. My dad in australia was on a huge wait list for a knee operation, so had to go private. Here in the UK we've had excellent fertility treatment (ivf) for years including 4 operations, all free, whereas in aus it would have been capped and only limited hospitals provide it, so a lot of travel would have been involved. When visiting Australia last month my friend had to have his gall bladder removed (literally doubled over in pain when I went to see him, I tried not to take it personally haha!) - although it was an emergency he kept having the procedure delayed because of staff shortages until 5 days later, the whole time he was having to fast and they couldnt tell him when he could be seen to. In the end it was a doctor from the UK - they fly them in regularly, and my parents actually have an Airbnb room which is constantly booked up by these doctors/surgeons flying in from the UK. But in Aus my mum had cancer and had excellent care and speaks highly of everyone involved. So it really doesn't form part of my equations - hope that clears things up for my post!

[DrDougster]

3 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Rambling nonsense that unfortunately you have not in a position to  answer . I know exactly what Yellow Code means. How patronising , even if unable to rebuke any thing that was suggestive that the system was in trouble. Talk to some of the staff and discover at least among some of them the disgruntlement of woprking conditions. 

Of course there has been a big expansion in services. There had to be after years of decline .Hence the massive drive recently for staff in UK and Ireland , not only to replace the lack of specialists and nurses, but an attempt to drive up police numbers who are leaving in record numbers and teachers . 

You are wrong again. The NHS under the Blair government was quite well funded. You could check out how waiting times have escalated and conditions declined under the Tory austerity. (you may need to acquire that through a key board though of course) 

While some changes are most definitely needed there is no reason why the NHS needs to be permanently under funded and under staffed. Britain will have the health service it deserves. That may well require changes in how it is funded. A Scandinavian model could be the way forward . Not necessary to go down the American route.

I wonder if this poster is a recruiter of overseas  NHS staff? It does sound a little sus to me with the discredit attempt of the reality on the ground?. 

 

 

How could I be in a better position to answer? I am one of the staff.

I have worked in the NHS and at Sir Charles Gairdner.

I worked in the NHS under the Blair government.

I have never worked as a recruiter.

I actually am on the ground.

 

[dilby]

Thanks everyone but I'm unsubscribing from my own post - I really don't care for online arguments, and it's a shame a reaching out for help has resulted in one about health services. I'll let you all have scramble amongst yourselves.

[DrDougster]

29 minutes ago, dilby said:

Thanks everyone but I'm unsubscribing from my own post - I really don't care for online arguments, and it's a shame a reaching out for help has resulted in one about health services. I'll let you all have scramble amongst yourselves.

Sorry you're put off - and apologies if I was to blame. Just fed up with the berating of good local services by a disgruntled individual.

I hope you do move back to Aus. Our five year old absolutely loves her life here. She's so happy and for us we could never give her a comparable quality of life in the UK.

[Blue Flu]

10 hours ago, DrDougster said:

How could I be in a better position to answer? I am one of the staff.

I have worked in the NHS and at Sir Charles Gairdner.

I worked in the NHS under the Blair government.

I have never worked as a recruiter.

I actually am on the ground.

 

Just wondering then why your views conflict so much with others on the ground? Just wondering why you are attempting to take me to task for stating clearly the situation within the system? 

If worked under the Blair government pre austerity , you most certainly should have witnessed the decline over past thirteen years due to austerity measures. 

All I have stated is fact. WA government acting in a reactive way as they tend to do, after so much poor publicity over recent years. The Childrens Hospital blow out fiasco not the least among the poor performance displayed to date. 

WE live in hope of improvements in the future. 

[ramot]

8 hours ago, dilby said:

Thanks everyone but I'm unsubscribing from my own post - I really don't care for online arguments, and it's a shame a reaching out for help has resulted in one about health services. I'll let you all have scramble amongst yourselves.

Don’t blame you, unfortunately time after time threads are taken over by a poster, and deteriorate into online 

‘I know better than everyone else’ ,

especially if the thread can then include the use of illegal drugs, even if irrelevant to the original post.

I wish you all the best with your decision, both my children followed us here in their 30’s. sadly they don’t have children, but they love their lives here, as does my son and family who are equally happy in Bristol.  No one place suits everyone. The Sunshine Coast is fabulous place to live for families judging by the young families I know., x M

[Blue Flu]

7 hours ago, DrDougster said:

Sorry you're put off - and apologies if I was to blame. Just fed up with the berating of good local services by a disgruntled individual.

I hope you do move back to Aus. Our five year old absolutely loves her life here. She's so happy and for us we could never give her a comparable quality of life in the UK.

You should say a disgruntled work force. Or large segments of it which has been voicing dissent for a considerable time. Don't attempt to gas light what I write, terming me a disgruntled individual. While I am delighted you find the system to your liking, I can only hope those other participants working within that system find accord with your belief. I would include obviously those of the general seeking  medical assistance in the future. 

I accept you may be from a less than desirable place in UK, that includes a failing NHS and negative experiences accordingly.  hence I am not   critiquing  the high praise  you lavish on the system as you find i and are in awe of it. It's just that those of us that live here have experienced a far better system in the past and a returning Aussie may well not be so endeared to the extent you are in how things have changed. (not only in the health sector, obviously) 

I am as pleased as anyone, that the present state government is attempting to rectify faults within the health system by taking it seriously. Too often things in this state have to be called out , to ensure that the issue is not swept undern the carpet. A bit sad you don't see that. (sure your not a recruiter?) 

 

 

[Blue Flu]

3 minutes ago, ramot said:

Don’t blame you, unfortunately time after time threads are taken over by a poster, and deteriorate into online 

‘I know better than everyone else’ ,

especially if the thread can then include the use of illegal drugs, even if irrelevant to the original post.

I wish you all the best with your decision, both my children followed us here in their 30’s. sadly they don’t have children, but they love their lives here, as does my son and family who are equally happy in Bristol.  No one place suits everyone. The Sunshine Coast is fabulous place to live for families judging by the young families I know., x M

I'm uncertain as to how relating the truth can deteriorate info online. Not my opinion simply relating what is happening on the ground. As for illegal drugs, surely the biggest threat to Australia's future as things stand. 

[Marisawright]

@Blue Flu, I was waiting for your apology to the original poster, who has had to unsubscribe from his own thread because you're intent on arguing with someone about a totally different subject.  But oh no, you've got to keep on thumping away.  If you have an argument with another person on someone else's thread, take it to the messaging system.  This forum is not your personal soapbox.

[Blue Flu]

17 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

@Blue Flu, I was waiting for your apology to the original poster, who has had to unsubscribe from his own thread because you're intent on arguing with someone about a totally different subject.  But oh no, you've got to keep on thumping away.  If you have an argument with another person on someone else's thread, take it to the messaging system.  This forum is not your personal soapbox.

I have no arguement with any individual . Even if they appear to do so with me. So come now  apologise for what exactly? Quite verifiable everything I state. One should never shy from relating the truth, so there it is. If that is labeled 'rambling nonsense' (when as stated readily verifiable) then obviously a response is warranted. You of all people should know, a forum can at times take on elements of a soap box. Anything a bit fleshy , with the grizzle removed (gossip, small talk ) I suppose could fall under such a term under certain circumstances. 

[BendigoBoy]

Amazing where some cocks end up when they escape the farmyard.

[Blue Flu]

3 minutes ago, BendigoBoy said:

Amazing where some cocks end up when they escape the farmyard.

Thought much the same myself. Even more so perhaps to those that remain all their natural in the dark  as a battery hen. World view a touch dubious though. 

[Marisawright]

50 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

I have no arguement with any individual . Even if they appear to do so with me. So come now  apologise for what exactly? Quite verifiable everything I state. 

I'm not debating the rights and wrongs of your view on the health system.  Did you not read @dilby's post, where he was so fed up of the long debate about the health system,  that he has felt obliged to unsubscribe from his own thread?  DrDougster had the grace to apologise for taking the thread off-topic, whereas your response was to try to keep the debate going. How rude.  I am disappointed in you as I thought you had some courtesy.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Marisawright

[ramot]

2 hours ago, ramot said:

Don’t blame you, unfortunately time after time threads are taken over by a poster, and deteriorate into online 

‘I know better than everyone else’ ,

especially if the thread can then include the use of illegal drugs, even if irrelevant to the original post.

I wish you all the best with your decision, both my children followed us here in their 30’s. sadly they don’t have children, but they love their lives here, as does my son and family who are equally happy in Bristol.  No one place suits everyone. The Sunshine Coast is fabulous place to live for families judging by the young families I know., x M

Should have said 2 of my children 

[InnerVoice]

4 minutes ago, ramot said:

Should have said 2 of my children 

It's an easy mistake. A couple of days after giving birth my mum left me in my pram outside the village post office. She was about halfway home before someone caught up with her and shouted "Brenda, you've forgot your baby!"

[Parley]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

@Blue Flu, I was waiting for your apology to the original poster, who has had to unsubscribe from his own thread because you're intent on arguing with someone about a totally different subject.  But oh no, you've got to keep on thumping away.  If you have an argument with another person on someone else's thread, take it to the messaging system.  This forum is not your personal soapbox.

Pot.. Kettle.

How often do you apologise for trashing someone's dream. Did you apologise to cheery thistle?

[InnerVoice]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

How often do you apologise for trashing someone's dream. Did you apologise to cheery thistle?

Or me, for trashing my post on retiring to Tassie. I spent our entire holiday checking places for meth houses!

[welljock]

27 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

Or me, for trashing my post on retiring to Tassie. I spent our entire holiday checking places for meth houses!

I doubt that was Marisa

[Tulip1]

4 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

It's an easy mistake. A couple of days after giving birth my mum left me in my pram outside the village post office. She was about halfway home before someone caught up with her and shouted "Brenda, you've forgot your baby!"

I did a similar thing.  When my second one was only days old I got him all cosy sitting in his car seat in the hall ready to drive to pick my eldest up from playgroup.  When I was stood waiting outside the playgroup for the doors to open the other mums were congratulating me and asking about my newborn.  One said where is he and my heart sank as reality hit.  He was still sitting in my hall. In habit I had just grabbed my car keys and walked out the door.  He’s in his 30’s now and non the worse off.  

[InnerVoice]

17 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I did a similar thing.  When my second one was only days old I got him all cosy sitting in his car seat in the hall ready to drive to pick my eldest up from playgroup.  When I was stood waiting outside the playgroup for the doors to open the other mums were congratulating me and asking about my newborn.  One said where is he and my heart sank as reality hit.  He was still sitting in my hall. In habit I had just grabbed my car keys and walked out the door.  He’s in his 30’s now and non the worse off.  

Good to hear. For me it just went downhill from there because a couple of months later my mum thought I'd swallowed the top of my milk bottle, so immediately started to perform the Heimlich manoeuvre on me. I was screaming my head off and very red-faced, so she thought I was choking. My dad was summoned and his solution was holding me upside down by my ankles and start shaking frantically. At some point they realized I was actually still breathing, and then they heard a pop. I'd sucked on the teat so hard I'd inverted it inside the bottle!

In my parents' defence they didn't have my until they were in their early 40s, so it must've been a bid adjustment.