The Voice Referendum

[simmo 21,830]

3 hours ago, unzippy said:

And why might that be?

Evil white man obs.

[unzippy 3,865]

 

8 hours ago, Parley said:

No one has ever said indigenous people are not troubled.

I doubt anyone would claim as such.

Good, I'm glad you agree.

 

8 hours ago, Parley said:

Asking why doesn't help much either

Maybe it doesn't much help you, but absolute horse manure 

How on earth can you possibly hope to fix something if you don't know why or how it was broken?

Edited May 23 by unzippy

[s713 2,065]

On 20/05/2023 at 11:16, simmo said:

Just been reading some more on this "voice" thing.  It appears that if successful unelected groups who might be wise, academic, fair.. or in the other hand may be radical activists with vexatious and destructive goals could be blocking laws laid down by elected bodies.  

Is this accurate?

Sounds like the House of Lords 

[simmo 21,830]

8 hours ago, s713 said:

Sounds like the House of Lords 

Exactly what I thought.

[unzippy 3,865]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/more-sports/voice-to-parliament-sports-combine-to-support-indigenous-voice-nrl-afl-news-latest/news-story/fef12bf68846bea61b5017d4d33c17b4

Rugby league legend Mal Meninga:

“I can’t see anything wrong with it — listening to the voice of the First Nations people. Learning from them and learning from their past and taking action with them.

“This is not a case of doing this for them or on behalf of them. It’s about taking action with them and I think that’s generally how we operate in sport. You bring your team along with you. You act collectively to achieve success. I can see great benefit in it."

 

Agreed.  It's good to listen, that's when you learn.

[Bulya 2,820]

2 hours ago, unzippy said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/more-sports/voice-to-parliament-sports-combine-to-support-indigenous-voice-nrl-afl-news-latest/news-story/fef12bf68846bea61b5017d4d33c17b4

Rugby league legend Mal Meninga:

“I can’t see anything wrong with it — listening to the voice of the First Nations people. Learning from them and learning from their past and taking action with them.

“This is not a case of doing this for them or on behalf of them. It’s about taking action with them and I think that’s generally how we operate in sport. You bring your team along with you. You act collectively to achieve success. I can see great benefit in it."

 

Agreed.  It's good to listen, that's when you learn.

Local hero is Mal.  Stand named after him 

[simmo 21,830]

4 hours ago, unzippy said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/more-sports/voice-to-parliament-sports-combine-to-support-indigenous-voice-nrl-afl-news-latest/news-story/fef12bf68846bea61b5017d4d33c17b4

Rugby league legend Mal Meninga:

“I can’t see anything wrong with it — listening to the voice of the First Nations people. Learning from them and learning from their past and taking action with them.

“This is not a case of doing this for them or on behalf of them. It’s about taking action with them and I think that’s generally how we operate in sport. You bring your team along with you. You act collectively to achieve success. I can see great benefit in it."

 

Agreed.  It's good to listen, that's when you learn.

Don't you do that already?

[Rallyman 4,081]

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/the-voice-will-divide-aboriginal-people-and-divide-our-great-democratic-nation/ewnkw01xm

 

 

[unzippy 3,865]

3 hours ago, Rallyman said:

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/the-voice-will-divide-aboriginal-people-and-divide-our-great-democratic-nation/ewnkw01xm

 

 

An interesting opinion.  Does that mean he is happy with the status quo or he wants something different to what on offer?  The opinion piece was quite clear on what he didn’t want, but lacking on what to do next.

[Parley 7,787]

5 hours ago, unzippy said:

An interesting opinion.  Does that mean he is happy with the status quo or he wants something different to what on offer?  The opinion piece was quite clear on what he didn’t want, but lacking on what to do next.

what do you think he wants?

[Rallyman 4,081]

9 hours ago, unzippy said:

An interesting opinion.  Does that mean he is happy with the status quo or he wants something different to what on offer?  The opinion piece was quite clear on what he didn’t want, but lacking on what to do next.

I found it informative .
clearly he thinks the voice is not the way forward as said in the link there are already many voices for the indigenous community to be heard, they can grasp opportunities or stay stagnant and blame everyone else, the world has moved on considerably since the first fleet arrived, if it was not the English that came it would have been anyone of a number of countries from the northern hemisphere that claimed Australia, while the English have carried out some horrible atrocities, tell me which countries haven’t in years gone by. It’s never been a perfect world and never will be.

 

[InnerVoice 997]

On 27/05/2023 at 08:31, Rallyman said:

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/the-voice-will-divide-aboriginal-people-and-divide-our-great-democratic-nation/ewnkw01xm

 

13 hours ago, Rallyman said:

I found it informative .
clearly he thinks the voice is not the way forward as said in the link there are already many voices for the indigenous community to be heard, they can grasp opportunities or stay stagnant and blame everyone else, the world has moved on considerably since the first fleet arrived, if it was not the English that came it would have been anyone of a number of countries from the northern hemisphere that claimed Australia, while the English have carried out some horrible atrocities, tell me which countries haven’t in years gone by. It’s never been a perfect world and never will be.
 

@Rallyman that's an excellent article - thanks for sharing. It carries much more weight when a well-respected member of the Aboriginal community explains the challenges than you or I, who might be accused of discrimination. The government needs to do more support those are making the effort to 'participate economically', but would struggle with social mobility due to their poorer circumstances. He elucidates how The Voice is likely to do more harm than good, and that non-indigenous people will vote for it because of our sense of guilt and shame over colonialism, and the poverty that still exists within First Nation communities.

Many Australians have been told the Voice will solve those problems. It won’t. Because poverty, disadvantage and despair aren’t caused by lack of a voice but by a lack of economic participation.

I believe many non-Indigenous Australians support the Voice because they believe it will improve things, because they believe Aboriginal people want it and also want to see something positive, symbolic and meaningful development in the relationship between Aboriginal people and the broader Australian community – to signal the end of the colonial period.

Sadly, I think many feel they must support it because of their own inherited (and misplaced) guilt about Australia’s history and the situation many Aboriginal people still find themselves in.

[unzippy 3,865]

On 27/05/2023 at 17:37, Parley said:

what do you think he wants?

Try reading the article, it may help you

[unzippy 3,865]

On 27/05/2023 at 21:53, Rallyman said:

I found it informative .
clearly he thinks the voice is not the way forward as said in the link there are already many voices for the indigenous community to be heard, they can grasp opportunities or stay stagnant and blame everyone else, the world has moved on considerably since the first fleet arrived, if it was not the English that came it would have been anyone of a number of countries from the northern hemisphere that claimed Australia, while the English have carried out some horrible atrocities, tell me which countries haven’t in years gone by. It’s never been a perfect world and never will be.

 

Agree with all of that, it's just the article was very light on a way forward.

[Parley 7,787]

5 minutes ago, unzippy said:

Try reading the article, it may help you

I hope you don't interact like this in real life. Ie never ever answer a question seriously. Just insult the questioner and throw questions back at them.

[unzippy 3,865]

2 minutes ago, Parley said:

I hope you don't interact like this in real life. Ie never ever answer a question seriously. Just insult the questioner and throw questions back at them.

Unlucky you feel insulted @Parley, I didn't understand why you asked a question that I previously answered?

 

This is me stating that from reading the article, I understand what he doesn't want, but don't understand what he does want:

On 27/05/2023 at 11:51, unzippy said:

 Does that mean he is happy with the status quo or he wants something different to what on offer?  The opinion piece was quite clear on what he didn’t want, but lacking on what to do next.

With me so far?

 

And then you ask:

On 27/05/2023 at 17:37, Parley said:

what do you think he wants?

 

Read what's in front of you 

[Parley 7,787]

Not looking good for the Yes camp.

Despite the advertising blitz it is not resonating. Support seems to be slipping.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/less-than-half-of-voters-back-voice-to-parliament-proposal-survey-suggests/naf32x243

Edited June 4 by Parley

[unzippy 3,865]

1 minute ago, Parley said:

Not looking good for the Yes camp.

Despite the advertising blitz more than half are not in favour.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/less-than-half-of-voters-back-voice-to-parliament-proposal-survey-suggests/naf32x243

46 yes

43 no

Doesn't mean yes wins?  Or am I missing something here?

[Parley 7,787]

31 minutes ago, unzippy said:

46 yes

43 no

Doesn't mean yes wins?  Or am I missing something here?

As usual you are. If yes doesn't get over 50% they will fail.

Not looking good at this stage despite the blanket advertising and emotional blackjmail from Albanese.

[unzippy 3,865]

Ah, the article didn't mention the 50% part, noted

[ramot 7,012]

I watched Palaszczuk recently telling everyone at the end of a meeting, I think it was in Mackay? could be wrong as the meeting was about the Burdekin Hydro Electric Scheme? to stand up if you are voting yes to the Voice referendum. The impression was that everyone stood up.

I think its out of order, for a politician irrespective of which party to put a group being filmed for tv on the spot to say what their potential vote will be.

Who knows of course whether they will vote yes or no, or not sure but some might have felt forced to stand up, so the overwhelming subtle impression to the tv audience was everyone is voting yes, 

 

Edited June 4 by ramot

[Lavers 1,443]

6 hours ago, Parley said:

As usual you are. If yes doesn't get over 50% they will fail.

Not looking good at this stage despite the blanket advertising and emotional blackjmail from Albanese.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the no vote is larger than that, people put on the spot by someone doing a survey will probably feel the need to agree with the voice.

[Lavers 1,443]

8 hours ago, ramot said:

I watched Palaszczuk recently telling everyone at the end of a meeting, I think it was in Mackay? could be wrong as the meeting was about the Burdekin Hydro Electric Scheme? to stand up if you are voting yes to the Voice referendum. The impression was that everyone stood up.

I think its out of order, for a politician irrespective of which party to put a group being filmed for tv on the spot to say what their potential vote will be.

Who knows of course whether they will vote yes or no, or not sure but some might have felt forced to stand up, so the overwhelming subtle impression to the tv audience was everyone is voting yes, 

 

I’m sure they will have been told to stand up, and also no one would want to stay seated and be classed as a racist on live tv.

[InnerVoice 997]

31 minutes ago, Lavers said:

I’m sure they will have been told to stand up, and also no one would want to stay seated and be classed as a racist on live tv.

They're probably more concerned about their work colleagues categorizing them as racists, boomers, misogynists, gammons, or some other term thrown at middle-aged white folk who've worked hard all their lives, paid their taxes, and made Australia a very desirable country for all.

[renebascossarabi 39]

On 20/05/2023 at 07:16, Lavers said:

Prime example is BLM, reporters where asking people if white lives matter and people said no haha.

Imagine if whites started saying black lives didn’t matter.

I am an ethnic minority myself as an Asian Filipino with minor Mexican admixture. BLM is racist in favor of Blacks.

 

All lives matter not just Blacks!

 

I may be a non-White person but I am sure as hell red-pilled on the Political Correctness Disease. When Africans and Asians dont want immigrants in their home turf (Im actually Asian myself) its called Nationalism but when Swedish and French people are barricaded in their own homes afraid of going outside due to "rapefugees", if they complain about these economic immigrants theyre called Racists!

Edited June 5 by renebascossarabi