The Voice Referendum

[Parley 7,356]

There will be a referendum later in the year whereby Australians will be asked to introduce special legislative powers to Indigenous Australians in our Parliament.

From what I have heard it sounds very divisive. I believe all Australians should be treated equally.

[Rallyman 3,946]

The devil is in the detail but we don’t have any. 

[InnerVoice 398]

9 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

The devil is in the detail but we don’t have any. 

...and that's why I'll be voting 'No'.

[Parley 7,356]

48 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

...and that's why I'll be voting 'No'.

I would not mind a preamble to the constitution referencing indigenous peoples as the original inhabitants of our lands, and some description of their history.

However in 2023 i believe we are all Australians equally. I don't subscribe to these Australians being better or worse than other Australians based on their ancestry.

It will be a disaster if a minority unelected group starts dictating the laws of the land.

So I also will be voting No.

[InnerVoice 398]

1 minute ago, Parley said:

I would not mind a preamble to the constitution referencing indigenous peoples as the original inhabitants of our lands, and some description of their history.

However in 2023 i believe we are all Australians equally. I don't subscribe to these Australians being better or worse than other Australians based on their ancestry.

It will be a disaster if a minority unelected group starts dictating the laws of the land.

So I also will be voting No.

I think it was/is a political stunt by the incumbent government to help get them elected, in just the same way that David Cameron used the EU referendum to get re-elected in 2015. Then when the vote didn't work out the way he planned, off he went into the sunset humming a merry little tune!

[simmo 21,581]

16 minutes ago, Parley said:

I would not mind a preamble to the constitution referencing indigenous peoples as the original inhabitants of our lands, and some description of their history.

However in 2023 i believe we are all Australians equally. I don't subscribe to these Australians being better or worse than other Australians based on their ancestry.

It will be a disaster if a minority unelected group starts dictating the laws of the land.

So I also will be voting No.

Good point.  I was watching something on YouTube, can't recall who but not a right wing person by any means (possibly Russell Brand?) And he was saying how ridiculous it is that someone who has a long ancestry with a country would get more rights over say someone who has 1,2 or 3 generations born in the country.

Should be equal.

[simmo 21,581]

8 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

I think it was/is a political stunt by the incumbent government to help get them elected, in just the same way that David Cameron used the EU referendum to get re-elected in 2015. Then when the vote didn't work out the way he planned, off he went into the sunset humming a merry little tune!

The problem is that people don't want to be perceived as Nazis, gammon and bigots so will tend to vote a particular way.  

[Marisawright 10,232]

37 minutes ago, Parley said:

I would not mind a preamble to the constitution referencing indigenous peoples as the original inhabitants of our lands, and some description of their history.

However in 2023 i believe we are all Australians equally. I don't subscribe to these Australians being better or worse than other Australians based on their ancestry.

No often we agree, Parley, but we do in this case.   

More should be done to address the inequities faced by First Nations People, but the Voice just sounds like a window-dressing stunt.  Everyone knows what needs to be done without creating another Quango and putting some words in a document.  Same as the "acknowledgment of country" that everyone does nowadays.  Just words with nothing behind them. 

Edited May 18 by Marisawright

[simmo 21,581]

1 minute ago, Marisawright said:

No often we agree, Parley, but we do in this case.   

More should be done to address the inequities faced by First Nations People, but the Voice just sounds like a window-dressing stunt.  Everyone knows what needs to be done without creating another Quango and putting some words in a document.  Same as the "acknowledgment of country" that everyone does nowadays.  Just words with nothing behind them. 

What are the inequalities faced by first nation people.?

[Rallyman 3,946]

1 hour ago, InnerVoice said:

I think it was/is a political stunt by the incumbent government to help get them elected, in just the same way that David Cameron used the EU referendum to get re-elected in 2015. Then when the vote didn't work out the way he planned, off he went into the sunset humming a merry little tune!

Was wondering the other day if he will do a Cameron if it’s a no vote and pack his bags and trot off into the distance

[Rallyman 3,946]

I think the closer it gets the more people are seeing through it, I will be very surprised if it’s a yes. 

 

[InnerVoice 398]

13 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

Was wondering the other day if he will do a Cameron if it’s a no vote and pack his bags and trot off into the distance

We can live in hope!

[Bulya 2,756]

Definite yes from me 

[HappyHeart 14,150]

On 18/05/2023 at 16:26, Bulya said:

Definite yes from me 

Me too. The way some people are carrying on is disgusting 

[Rallyman 3,946]

1 hour ago, HappyHeart said:

Me too. The way some people are carrying on is disgusting 

What do you think will happen if it’s a yes vote, will all the issues that have been in the news regarding Alice Springs etc will be all sorted or will the can be kicked down the road. 
what will a yes vote mean. I haven’t made my mind up yet as far too much detail missing to form an opinion one way or another 

[Rallyman 3,946]

On 18/05/2023 at 16:25, InnerVoice said:

We can live in hope!

And die in Caergwerly ( 2 villages in north wales next to each other) a standing joke in those parts 

[HappyHeart 14,150]

12 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

What do you think will happen if it’s a yes vote, will all the issues that have been in the news regarding Alice Springs etc will be all sorted or will the can be kicked down the road. 
what will a yes vote mean. I haven’t made my mind up yet as far too much detail missing to form an opinion one way or another 

I’m more concerned about what NO will mean and what message it will send. I don’t care so much if it’s politically motivated PR as much as I care that the goal is to positively change or impact indigenous disadvantage and subjugation. No reflects very very badly on us as a progressive nation invested in equity. 

[Lavers 1,347]

35 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

I’m more concerned about what NO will mean and what message it will send. I don’t care so much if it’s politically motivated PR as much as I care that the goal is to positively change or impact indigenous disadvantage and subjugation. No reflects very very badly on us as a progressive nation invested in equity. 

Don’t really know much about the Aboriginal people but are the issues that they don’t get chances in life (school etc)or are the issues that they don’t want to live (a normal life)?

[HappyHeart 14,150]

3 minutes ago, Lavers said:

Don’t really know much about the Aboriginal people but are the issues that they don’t get chances in life (school etc)or are the issues that they don’t want to live (a normal life)?

I can’t answer that question. I suggest you do some research into recent history and come to your own conclusions. 

[welljock 310]

2 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

Me too. The way some people are carrying on is disgusting 

So you agree that treating someone different just because of their race is correct, I find that disgusting, it's the perfect description of racism, so despite what Albanese tries to say the supporters of the voice are the real racists.

I would support the removal of any racist terms from the constitution, rather than adding to it. 

[simmo 21,581]

4 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

Me too. The way some people are carrying on is disgusting 

So everyone who disagrees with you are disgusting?

[FirstWorldProblems 1,681]

2 hours ago, welljock said:

So you agree that treating someone different just because of their race is correct, I find that disgusting, it's the perfect description of racism

Sorry @welljock but that's not quite right.   Racism isn't treating someone different.  Racism is the belief that race is a determining factor of human traits and capabilities and that the differences between races results in an intrinsic superiority of a particular race to another.  

That belief leads to prejudice, discrimination, persecution etc.  and it is that which is disgusting.

Recognising  inequalities and then taking positive action to try and restore equity is not remotely racist.

 

 

[simmo 21,581]

3 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Sorry @welljock but that's not quite right.   Racism isn't treating someone different.  Racism is the belief that race is a determining factor of human traits and capabilities and that the differences between races results in an intrinsic superiority of a particular race to another.  

That belief leads to prejudice, discrimination, persecution etc.  and it is that which is disgusting.

Recognising  inequalities and then taking positive action to try and restore equity is not remotely racist.

 

 

What are the inequalities?

Sorry, just curious as an outsider.

[FirstWorldProblems 1,681]

3 hours ago, Lavers said:

Don’t really know much about the Aboriginal people but are the issues that they don’t get chances in life (school etc)or are the issues that they don’t want to live (a normal life)?

@Lavers  like I did, you grew up in an area of socio-economic disadvantage.  I'd imagine you observed a lot of the same things that I did too.   Some multi-generational families pretty much living off the welfare state.   Amongst those working, aspiration to something "other" wasn't the norm.   Everyone around us went to school, got a job, paid the bills, spent the weekends in the pub, buy a modest home and repeat until retired with no real savings and a state pension to live off.   Some families managed an annual holiday (not mine though - break out the worlds smallest violin  ).  That was normal.   That's what pretty much everyone did.    There were exceptions for sure, but this was typical of everyone I knew.  Normal for people is what they are surrounded by.

I'd imagine the rich folks, the lawyers, the doctors, the successful business owners, the city traders etc, all looked at my family and my neighbours and wondered why we didn't try "to live a normal life" (to borrow your words).  We their normal was nothing like mine.  Such things didn't seem attainable and it just wasn't what people did.  Not the people we knew.

If you apply that experience to the question that you asked above, would that influence your thoughts on the answer? 

[GrandpaGrumble 125]

On 18/05/2023 at 15:29, Marisawright said:

No often we agree, Parley, but we do in this case.   

More should be done to address the inequities faced by First Nations People, but the Voice just sounds like a window-dressing stunt.  Everyone knows what needs to be done without creating another Quango and putting some words in a document.  Same as the "acknowledgment of country" that everyone does nowadays.  Just words with nothing behind them. 

I'm not sure that everyone does know what needs to be done.  As I understand it the Voice is intended as a more organized way for the people affected to give their opinion about what needs to be done.  Not really a quango as it won't have any actual powers devolved to it.  All it will be allowed to do is "make representations to" the Government and Parliament.  The Government and Parliament won't be obliged to act on those representations, or even listen to them if they don't want to.  Nothing like the quota of Māori seats in the NZ parliament for instance.

https://voice.gov.au/about-voice/voice-principles

It may or may not turn out to be window dressing, a Yes vote might not be much more than symbolic, but on the other hand what would a No vote symbolize?  What message would that send out?