Take the visa while it’s there and emigrate to an unknown life in a country you love, or stay where you have good, solid income in a country you don’t love?

[palmtrees]

Apologies in advance for the long post but after some advice or people’s opinions, in case we are missing something or being crazy here. Myself and my partner have been back and forth from Australia for the last 7 years or so, probably have spent 4 years total over there.

Currently back in the UK, have a permanent visa application approved (186) and when we applied for said visa, intended our current life in the UK (jobs, house etc.) to be temporary until it’s granted. We’ve unexpectedly been doing ok and are reasonably happy. Would we rather live in Australia (we love the country, weather, outdoor life etc), sure…. but we both earn quite well and are comfortable in the UK at the moment, partner has own business where he’s earning what he’d earn in a week in Australia in a day in the UK, I’m on 40k at 28 which I never thought I’d earn right now, and have some promising further career progression in the next few years. We are renting a nice place in a nice area and could probably buy in a couple of years. 

 

Our end game is to be in Australia, but if we had it our way we’d do it in a few years once we’ve had a baby in the UK (with family nearby), got in a better financial position and felt completely ready, and maybe got an investment property in the UK under our belts for back up in future if ever needed. Unfortunately the visa won’t wait longer than a few months from now. 

 

For a bit more context we are both wanting to start a family soon due to age (28 F and 37 M) of my partner mainly. Also keen to get a house and settle or make a base somewhere.

 

Our permanent visa application was successful as partner’s old Aussie job agreed to sponsor the permanent visa, but if we reject it now it will be on me and some further education/ work to apply for a permanent visa in a few years when we’re ready, as all his Aussie work experience we used to get the visa will no longer be valid by then. Of course a risk exists that if the  skilled lists/ anything else changes before I have everything needed, we might not tick the right boxes in future and lose the chance altogether.

 

The other factors we are considering are that the work I do is quite niche and isn’t really a big thing in Australia at the moment (data protection), and the company he has to work for for a couple of years as a condition of the permanent visa, isn’t great so it will be a bit of a slog until he can leave and until Australia catch up in data protection to create more jobs in the field for me. In the meantime I’d most likely have to pick up unrelated work or struggle for a while to find something. I also love working remotely which I do currently, and heard this is much less common in Australia compared with the UK.

 

The big question is, do we throw this visa opportunity away, which has taken years to get and is notoriously hard to get granted and stay in the UK with the risk of not being able to apply again in future, but be able to settle for a while, have a child and get in a better financial position- or- do we say ‘you only live once’ close partner’s business, quit my job and move to australia with unknown job prospects and feeling not quite ready but loving the country we live in? 
If we had it our way, we’d put the visa ‘on hold’ for a while as our end game will always be to end up in Australia as we simply love it, as it seems crazy to jump right now but also a risk to wait and throw away this visa.

 

I know only we can truly know all the ins and outs and make the decision, but opinions are very much welcomed as we are totally stuck and worried we are missing something or the bigger picture!

 

To jump or not to jump?

 

Thank you for reading if you got this far

Edited March 21, 2023 by palmtrees
Clarity and spelling

[Steve Elliott]

The reality is that eligibility requirements can and do change frequently. A door has now opened for you (the visa) and there are no guarantees that once this door (for which you have paid good money for ) has closed, another may never open. You mention your occupation is quite niche, implying Australia is a little behind the UK. I would suggest this poses a great opportunity for you to transfer your skillset to Australia so you will be established once Australia starts to catch up. (That might not be too far away). Contrary to what you have heard, working from home is quite common and encouraged by many employers.

Without knowing your partner's occupation, there will likely be future opportunities to pivot back into being a small business owner. Maybe think of a salaried role for a few years as an "apprenticeship" of sorts during which you can establish yourselves, learn the ropes and assess the possibilities with the cushion of having a stable income. 

Over the years, I have seen many people defer their move, only to find the goal posts have shifted, only to find when they deem all the "lights have turned green", the visa light has turned from green to amber or even red. 

It's human nature to prefer comfort over uncertainty but the best things rarely come easily and without sacrifice.

For what it's worth, I'd suggest  - Carpe diem!

 

[palmtrees]

Steve, thank you so much for your time reading and for giving your advice and insight. . 
Your reply has definitely given us some great thinking points and is incredibly helpful. I think we are definitely placing a lot of importance on stability, which I agree that whilst we have that in the UK, it does not mean we won’t achieve this in Australia if we take this visa with future opportunities after we’ve settled in. We’ll keep this post updated with where we are in a few months! 

[Jon the Hat]

If you can, try to imagine being stuck in the UK forever, your visa plans gone.  How does that feel?  If it feels shit, then move.  you can always move back, but the chance to come to Aus might never come again.

[Blue Flu]

Think carefully. I'd keep Australia as a holiday destination , if it were me. What exactly makes it better than UK ? Outside of the weather, which you can find closer to home. Both countries have 'issues'. Just don't over glamourise Australia. In a time of uncertainty, having security is not a bad thing at all. 

[Drumbeat]

I’m surprised you say that data protection isn’t a big thing in Australia yet. I recently retired from the Health IT sector in WA and it’s definitely an expanding department there. 
A former colleague of mine completed a Masters in Cyber Security about a year ago so I’m guessing she saw an increasing need in that area of Project Management.

[Ausvisitor]

5 minutes ago, Drumbeat said:

I’m surprised you say that data protection isn’t a big thing in Australia yet. I recently retired from the Health IT sector in WA and it’s definitely an expanding department there. 
A former colleague of mine completed a Masters in Cyber Security about a year ago so I’m guessing she saw an increasing need in that area of Project Management.

I would agree, I run a whole practice on data management here in Sydney, we must have (not all work for me) at least 200 consultants actively working on this, and each of the other big-4 have similar numbers (in Sydney alone).

Every client I speak to is hiring data protection people at a furious rate (the only qualification at the moment seems to be able to say data protection).

It's probably the hottest career and topic in Australia at the moment - you can thank Optus and Medibank for that.

If you can't get a job in data protection in 2023 you never will, the market has never been hotter...

If course we don't (and most client orgs don't either) advertise these roles, we head hunt them and recruit direct from masters courses. If you are offshore you will almost certainly never see an advert for DP here, and if you did we'd take one look at the fact you aren't onshore and ignore the application we all need people to start yesterday not some point in the future.

If you are serious about working in that sector in AUS then get over here quickly - as a side note the sorts of salaries being paid for DP people here right now is in the 130k-180k range, so between 2&3 times what you are getting in the UK 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Ausvisitor

[InnerVoice]

Jump, definitely jump! Well I would if I was in your shoes.

If you're going to start a family soon then you'd be better doing that here (Australia), or it's going to be more complicated, more expensive, and not to mention exhausting to migrate afterwards, so I wouldn't let that stop you - and at 28 you're still a spring chicken!

[Jon the Hat]

54 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Think carefully. I'd keep Australia as a holiday destination , if it were me. What exactly makes it better than UK ? Outside of the weather, which you can find closer to home. Both countries have 'issues'. Just don't over glamourise Australia. In a time of uncertainty, having security is not a bad thing at all. 

It's a fair point, but then again how much time have you spent in the UK recently?  

[InnerVoice]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

It's a fair point, but then again how much time have you spent in the UK recently?  

I was last back in 2018 and couldn't believe how much the country had gone downhill. I was used to seeing homeless people in Manchester, but they were prevalent in much smaller towns and most were clearly drug addicts - very sad. A general aura of negatively seemed hang over everyone I met. I went to visit one of my friends in hospital - now that was really grim. People in the ward next to us crying for help, but not enough nurses to attend to them. After a week or so of visiting people, we were happy to be boarding that plane!

[Quoll]

Deleted, you sort of answered my question.  Personally I wouldnt move to an opportunity which was less than I had in hand but if you are up for the adventure, all you have to lose is your money - you could take a sabbatical which might give you a bit more security, your OH - well, he runs a risk winding up his own business but perhaps he could put it under management?

Edited March 22, 2023 by Quoll

[can1983]

I too would make the moved whilst you can

But I would not underestimate how hard it is to raise a family away from all grandparents wider family etc. Since we are an "anglo-australian" family we were always going to have to pick one and we opted for Australia. If you are both from the UK with only UK family its going to be hard in my opinion. 

[Marisawright]

I agree with @can1983.  You loved Australia when you were a couple with no kids, carefree.  You may have been living in a lively, trendy suburb, maybe even near the beach.  You were having a blast and as it was only temporary, you knew you'd see your family before too long (and you could afford to hop on a plane anytime, anyway). 

If you move this time, it will be a different story.  You'll be more conscious of costs since  you're planning to start a family.  You may find you can't afford the  lifestyle you had, or the kind of home you'd want for your child. That will change your whole experience of life in Australia and you may not like the suburban version nearly as much.  If you haven't given that some thought already, it's something you should consider.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Marisawright

[Bulya]

God’s country or Blighty?  Tough choice…  

[InnerVoice]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I agree with @can1983.  You loved Australia when you were a couple with no kids, carefree.  You may have been living in a lively, trendy suburb, maybe even near the beach.  You were having a blast and as it was only temporary, you knew you'd see your family before too long (and you could afford to hop on a plane anytime, anyway). 

If you move this time, it will be a different story.  You'll be more conscious of costs since  you're planning to start a family.  You may find you can't afford the  lifestyle you had, or the kind of home you'd want for your child. That will change your whole experience of life in Australia and you may not like the suburban version nearly as much.  If you haven't given that some thought already, it's something you should consider.

 

Having children is a life-changing experience and involves personal sacrifice, so their lives will change radically wherever they live. Yes, they would have more of a support network in the UK, but then Australia is just a great environment to brings up kids. For a start, there's so much you can do here that doesn't cost anything (or costs very little).

Edited March 22, 2023 by InnerVoice

[Marisawright]

9 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

Having children is a life-changing experience and involves personal sacrifice, so their lives will change radically wherever they live. Yes, they would have more of a support network in the UK, but then Australia is just a great environment to brings up kids. For a start, there's so much you can do here that doesn't cost anything (or costs very little).

That depends where they're planning to settle.    If they're going to be somewhere they can afford to be near beaches and parks, then I'd agree.  However if, for instance, they're going to end up in the far outer suburbs of Sydney, 2 hours from the beach in stifling heat, it would be a different story.    Not all of Australia is the same.

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It's a fair point, but then again how much time have you spent in the UK recently?  

None. But I don't have a business or a house over there. If so, I would be most unlikely to consider Australia. But this is based largely on the reality I witness around me. This country is in incredibly bad shape.

Sydney is now the second most expensive city in the world. We have close to the highest personal debt. Rentals are all but unobtainable. Drugs are so rampant as to entrenched into society (or the money made from their manufacture,  that this must seriously impact the nation. Both in the black economy and associated risks. How will this nation function on this level ? How long before cartels get into other things worse? 

Our hospital system is not so far removed from NHS. Violence in our schools at record highs. 

Immigration at record highs of over 300,000 in a year. (unneeded) This places further burden on house prices and competition in employment. No unless escaping persecution, or in fear of life, or from a nation so poor that anywhere will be an improvement, I just don't see many advantages these days in moving to Australia. 

[Blue Flu]

5 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That depends where they're planning to settle.    If they're going to be somewhere they can afford to be near beaches and parks, then I'd agree.  However if, for instance, they're going to end up in the far outer suburbs of Sydney, 2 hours from the beach in stifling heat, it would be a different story.    Not all of Australia is the same.

That is more the probability for most. Very easy to fall into bad company in such locations , which in todays world is probably all that is affordable for all but the wealthiest. 

[Blue Flu]

Of course the selling of $1.6 Billion worth of Australian property to Chinese has further aggravated the matter. In a time of housing stress, overseas buyers should be barred from buying housing .  

[InnerVoice]

4 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

Every client I speak to is hiring data protection people at a furious rate (the only qualification at the moment seems to be able to say data protection).

It's probably the hottest career and topic in Australia at the moment - you can thank Optus and Medibank for that.

You can add Latitude to that list. I have one of their credit cards and have received 3 phishing texts over the last couple of days, so I guess the crims already have my phone number

[Blue Flu]

4 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I was last back in 2018 and couldn't believe how much the country had gone downhill. I was used to seeing homeless people in Manchester, but they were prevalent in much smaller towns and most were clearly drug addicts - very sad. A general aura of negatively seemed hang over everyone I met. I went to visit one of my friends in hospital - now that was really grim. People in the ward next to us crying for help, but not enough nurses to attend to them. After a week or so of visiting people, we were happy to be boarding that plane!

Odd that. I can't believe how much Australia has gone down the tubes. The apathy is killing. Not positive just as the short termism. Not much thought how the country is in decline. Massive immigration. Difficult to find a place to live.  I recall the homeless in London in the early nineties . Australia has become far more tense. Very money focused. (greed paramount) shades of what London became in the eighties. 

There are still cities not so inclined. For instance Newcastle and Glasgow are pretty safe bets. A shame Glasgow is blighted by drug useage though. At least it is not an alternative occupation as in WA . 

[Jon the Hat]

34 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Of course the selling of $1.6 Billion worth of Australian property to Chinese has further aggravated the matter. In a time of housing stress, overseas buyers should be barred from buying housing .  

On this we can absolutely agree, and once it has been bought they should be taxed so much for leaving it empty they are all but obliged to rent it out.

[Bobj]

Here we go again! Same garbage spouted when a young couple want to start a new life in a country they love.

@Blue Flujust put a sock in it, mate, all you seem to do is whinge about everyrhing Austalian and then rabbit on about global politics.

Get out of the rut and enjoy life, there’s a good lad.

Cheers, Bobj.

[Ausvisitor]

The reality is, in my view alone, Australia is still much better than the UK. Just a more laid back attitude and simple pleasures (heat, beach, more outdoor spaces).

I probably earn less than I did in the UK (yes I'm that one guy who didn't get paid more when moving here) but it goes further.

I live slap bang in Sydney's Inner West, there isn't really a more expensive lifestyle anywhere in Australia but it's still hands down more fun than anywhere in London.

Is it perfect ? Certainly not, but I don't see the crime cess pit and drug addled youth that others seem to say is everywhere, yes plenty of drugs in Newtown but it's the "recreational" variety not the "life ruined" demogeaphic

 

That said drugs in the modern world are like rats in the London underground. If you can't see some straight in front you it's because you aren't looking hard enough. That said it's mainly innocuous and certainly it is way more prevalent in the cities in the UK and US than AUS

Edited March 22, 2023 by Ausvisitor

[palmtrees]

Hi everyone thanks all for your advice, it’s really helpful when we’re trying to weigh everything up.

It’s really reassuring to hear of the demand of data protection professionals in Australia at the moment- I agree that online there are barely any job ads in comparison to absolutely loads in the UK but the headhunting explains it. 

We have spent a few years living in Sydney Western suburbs, we liked it in the areas we lived, but I think a few here are right that we potentially couldn’t afford the house etc. we had pre-kids when the time comes, (unless the Data protection roles do end up paying as much as advised on here!). But then could be in the same situation in the UK with struggle financially after kids.

With coming back if it didn’t work out in Australia, realistically partner can’t get anyone to run business in meantime and couldn’t pick it back up so would be a no-go, I don’t think he’d go back to working for someone over here as it would feel a bit like a lose-lose.

We’ve packed up and done this move a few times. Each time it didn’t stick for one reason or another- but not always our fault/choice and due to sponsorships ending etc. Every time we are in the UK we want to be back, when we are there we love it but miss the UK. The classic!