15 minute city. What do you think?

[Lavers 1,342]

14 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

This is the one that catches my attention, because everyone knows, now, that the big corporations funded dodgy research to "disprove" cancer claims, and that the big car manufacturers covered up the damage caused by leaded petrol.

Nowadays we all know that big fossil fuel and mining corporations fund the climate change debunkers, and mobile phone companies invest big dollars into research proving mobile phones are safe.   Why isn't that questioned?   

Because conspiracy theorists will always want to believe the theory that suits them best -- the one that doesn't actually require them to DO anything or change their comfortable life.  

What you said regarding funding debunkers all goes back to the elites.

The elites own everything, they will be funding the climate change debunkers and also people like Greta who are all for it.

The elites make there money either way so there not bothered by which side your on.

Climate deniers carry on buying fossil fuels, those who want to save the planet spend extra on going green. The only thing that stays the same is the elites making money.

Also you will have people questioning what you said regarding phones, but they would also be conspiracy theorists.

You question anything against what the gov tells you and it’s a conspiracy.

Edited March 6 by Lavers

[Blue Flu 990]

5 hours ago, Lavers said:

Charles Manson was a product of CIA experiments regarding lsd

 

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

One guy wrote a book putting that theory forward.  It's a hot mess of a book, pretty badly written. Doesn't prove a thing.

CIA experiments on people without their knowledge was proven to be a fact. 

[welljock 310]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

This is the one that catches my attention, because everyone knows, now, that the big corporations funded dodgy research to "disprove" cancer claims, and that the big car manufacturers covered up the damage caused by leaded petrol.

Nowadays we all know that big fossil fuel and mining corporations fund the climate change debunkers, and mobile phone companies invest big dollars into research proving mobile phones are safe.   Why isn't that questioned?   

Because conspiracy theorists will always want to believe the theory that suits them best -- the one that doesn't actually require them to DO anything or change their comfortable life.  

That sounds exactly like a conspiracy theory

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

Most Brits are keen on a 15 minute city according to new survey 

[Rallyman 3,945]

How many people  we’re surveyed 

Those results don’t stack up with the protests in Oxford. 
 

every bank in my former town has closed , plenty of charity shops, fast food takeaways and hair salons and that’s about it good luck with your 15min town there 

[Lavers 1,342]

3 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Most Brits are keen on a 15 minute city according to new survey 

The difference being is that do they know what it really entails?

Im pretty sure that if they started getting fined or having to get permits to leave there zone they would change there mind.

[simmo 21,581]

10 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Most Brits are keen on a 15 minute city according to new survey 

What a contrived load of rubbish.

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

7 hours ago, Lavers said:

The difference being is that do they know what it really entails?

Im pretty sure that if they started getting fined or having to get permits to leave there zone they would change there mind.

They are designed to be a representative cross section of society so amongst the few thousand respondents there might indeed have been 1 simpleton who believes the utter tosh pedalled by the outrage merchants and foaming-at-the-mouth conspiracy theorists.  

[Lavers 1,342]

35 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

They are designed to be a representative cross section of society so amongst the few thousand respondents there might indeed have been 1 simpleton who believes the utter tosh pedalled by the outrage merchants and foaming-at-the-mouth conspiracy theorists.  

There you go with conspiracy theorists again, it has already been mentioned how you may need permits to enter other areas.

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

25 minutes ago, Lavers said:

 it has already been mentioned how you may need permits to enter other areas.

It's not true mate.  It's b.s. made up to drive outrage.  All the 15 minute cities are, is an attempt to reduce car dependency by locating within easy reach all of the main things people need - shopping, education, healthcare etc

[Marisawright 10,232]

12 hours ago, Rallyman said:

How many people  we’re surveyed 

Those results don’t stack up with the protests in Oxford. 

Really?  How many people live in Oxford?   150,000.   How many people protested?  2,000.

It was the same in Melbourne during the lockdowns.  Overseas, people thought Melburnians were up in arms about the lockdowns, because of the protests. But the population of Melbourne is 5 million, and less than 5,000 turned up for the protests. Hardly a majority, is it?  We were in Melbourne all through the pandemic and I'd say 95% of people complied with mask wearing, social distancing etc without the slightest complaint, even though it was basically an honour system (no inspectors checking up on us etc).    

Just because the squeaky wheels make the most noise, doesn't mean they're anywhere near being a majority.

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

4 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Really?  How many people live in Oxford?   150,000.   How many people protested?  2,000.

It was the same in Melbourne during the lockdowns.  Overseas, people thought Melburnians were up in arms about the lockdowns, because of the protests. But the population of Melbourne is 5 million, and less than 5,000 turned up for the protests. Hardly a majority, is it?  We were in Melbourne all through the pandemic and I'd say 95% of people complied with mask wearing, social distancing etc without the slightest complaint, even though it was basically an honour system (no inspectors checking up on us etc).    

Just because the squeaky wheels make the most noise, doesn't mean they're anywhere near being a majority.

What could possibly be more British than a pub you can walk to, a nearby corner shop and walking to school.   It's literally one of the regular things migrants to Australia complain about not having on this very forum.

Since Covid, it really feels like people's anxieties are being turbo-charged by a very large, very active online ecosystem of misinformation.

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

3 hours ago, simmo said:

What a contrived load of rubbish.

Because most of the respondents don't agree with you then the survey must be misleading?  That's ironic. 

 

Looks like a good cross set of people

 

[Lavers 1,342]

29 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Really?  How many people live in Oxford?   150,000.   How many people protested?  2,000.

It was the same in Melbourne during the lockdowns.  Overseas, people thought Melburnians were up in arms about the lockdowns, because of the protests. But the population of Melbourne is 5 million, and less than 5,000 turned up for the protests. Hardly a majority, is it?  We were in Melbourne all through the pandemic and I'd say 95% of people complied with mask wearing, social distancing etc without the slightest complaint, even though it was basically an honour system (no inspectors checking up on us etc).    

Just because the squeaky wheels make the most noise, doesn't mean they're anywhere near being a majority.

Just because people don’t hit the streets it doesn’t mean that they don’t support something.

You believe only 5000 people were marching in Melbourne?

Ive seen people walking to football games on a Saturday and there were just as many on the streets in Melbourne.

Also maybe people wore masks because of the fear campaigns put on them by governments, are you still seeing 95% of people wearing masks?

Edited March 7 by Lavers

[Marisawright 10,232]

39 minutes ago, Lavers said:

Just because people don’t hit the streets it doesn’t mean that they don’t support something.

You believe only 5000 people were marching in Melbourne?

I was in Melbourne at the time.  Let's say it was 10,000, that's still a very small percentage of the Melbourne population

It's a great excuse isn't it, "Oh, all the people who didn't demonstrate were just scared" or "all the people who didn't demonstrate were just apathetic".   Why are you so convinced that the explanation can't possibly be that they supported the government's stance?  Didn't you notice that we voted Dan Andrews back in?  If people hadn't been supportive of his policies, he'd have got chucked out at the election and he wasn't, not by a mile.

[ramot 6,870]

1 hour ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

What could possibly be more British than a pub you can walk to, a nearby corner shop and walking to school.   It's literally one of the regular things migrants to Australia complain about not having on this very forum.

Since Covid, it really feels like people's anxieties are being turbo-charged by a very large, very active online ecosystem of misinformation.

I think you can have the above in smaller communities here. My neighbourhood on the Sunshine Coast, has a good school, fairly small shopping centre square, and  it  has almost everything you need within the walking distance of a fairly large percentage of the local area. We have a Doctors, Dentist, Hearing Audiologist, Physiotherapist, Optician,Woolworths, BWS, butcher, green grocer, fishmonger, chemist, hairdresser, cafe, bargain shop, petrol station, estate agent, even a nail bar! and  a tavern close by. Though to be honest, most people drive to the shops, no one wants to carry heavy shopping home wherever you live.

i certainly wouldn’t move back to my old village in Nottingham, with luckily a Dr.surgery,  but only a small village shop, primary school and 2 pubs, and only 3 busses a day if you wanted better facilities.without driving miles. 

Plenty of all the facilities needed near our house in Islington London, but I have no intention of moving back there either, city living isn’t for me, no feeling of community. 

Edited March 7 by ramot

[simmo 21,581]

1 hour ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Because most of the respondents don't agree with you then the survey must be misleading?  That's ironic. 

 

Looks like a good cross set of people

 

Because who wouldn't want to live within 15mins of amenities. Unfortunately that is not what a FMC is.  It's a loaded question designed to skew the narrative.

 

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

30 minutes ago, ramot said:

I think you can have the above in smaller communities here. My neighbourhood on the Sunshine Coast, has a good school, fairly small shopping centre square, and  it  has almost everything you need within the walking distance of a fairly large percentage of the local area. We have a Doctors, Dentist, Hearing Audiologist, Physiotherapist, Optician,Woolworths, BWS, butcher, green grocer, fishmonger, chemist, hairdresser, cafe, bargain shop, petrol station, estate agent, even a nail bar! and  a tavern close by. Though to be honest, most people drive to the shops, no one wants to carry heavy shopping home wherever you live.

i certainly wouldn’t move back to my old village in Nottingham, with luckily a Dr.surgery,  but only a small village shop, primary school and 2 pubs, and only 3 busses a day if you wanted better facilities.without driving miles. 

Plenty of all the facilities needed near our house in Islington London, but I have no intention of moving back there either, city living isn’t for me, no feeling of community. 

Absolutely!  And that's the point of the 15 minute city - remove the necessity to drive

[Rallyman 3,945]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Really?  How many people live in Oxford?   150,000.   How many people protested?  2,000.

It was the same in Melbourne during the lockdowns.  Overseas, people thought Melburnians were up in arms about the lockdowns, because of the protests. But the population of Melbourne is 5 million, and less than 5,000 turned up for the protests. Hardly a majority, is it?  We were in Melbourne all through the pandemic and I'd say 95% of people complied with mask wearing, social distancing etc without the slightest complaint, even though it was basically an honour system (no inspectors checking up on us etc).    

Just because the squeaky wheels make the most noise, doesn't mean they're anywhere near being a majority.

So how many were surveyed? 
what has mask wearing got to do with this thread 

you got arrested if you protested anything to do with covid in Victoria, the conduct of the police were completely out of control at times 
 

[Rallyman 3,945]

3 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Absolutely!  And that's the point of the 15 minute city - remove the necessity to drive

All ok if facilities are in your doorstep, many towns don’t have that luxury , my old town not 1 bank , the post office closed for 12 months as well recently reopened thank the lord , typical city living mentality 

 

[simmo 21,581]

3 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

It's not true mate.  It's b.s. made up to drive outrage.  All the 15 minute cities are, is an attempt to reduce car dependency by locating within easy reach all of the main things people need - shopping, education, healthcare etc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-63716433

 

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

1 minute ago, Rallyman said:

All ok if facilities are in your doorstep, many towns don’t have that luxury , my old town not 1 bank , the post office closed for 12 months as well recently reopened thank the lord , typical city living mentality 

 

It's an urban planning concept to improve lives in cities.   It's not appropriate for a village or small town.

Those of us (like myself) who prefer not to live in a city have to accept both the downsides of that along with the upsides.

[Marisawright 10,232]

9 hours ago, Rallyman said:

So how many were surveyed? 
what has mask wearing got to do with this thread

I'm drawing a comparison with an event I had experience of. I didn't take part in the demonstrations in Melbourne but I was in the park where the protestors gathered before the demo.    

I'm pointing out that a demonstration of 5,000 or 10,000 people looks impressive, but it's not even slightly impressive if there's another 2.8 million people who COULD have demonstrated and chose not to, for whatever reason.   You can't just explain those 2.8 million people away and claim the views of the 5,000 represents the majority.  That would be completely illogical.

Same goes for Oxford.  2,000 people sounds like a lot, but 150,000 other people could have demonstrated and chose not to, for whatever reason. You can't just explain them away and claim the views of the 2,000 represent the majority.

 

Edited March 7 by Marisawright

[Marisawright 10,232]

9 hours ago, Rallyman said:

All ok if facilities are in your doorstep, many towns don’t have that luxury , my old town not 1 bank , the post office closed for 12 months as well recently reopened thank the lord , typical city living mentality 

But that's the point, which you're missing completely.  If you look at the questionnaire, it's asking people if they would LIKE to have a city where all those amenities are within 15 minutes of home.  The objective of the 15-minute city concept is to encourage businesses and amenities to open up in the suburbs, instead of all being concentrated in big malls.   

Personally, I don't see how controlling traffic does anything to achieve the 15-minute city objective.  If councils are doing that because they think it's going to achieve it, then I think they're doing it completely arse-about.  You have to establish the amenities first, then people won't need or want to drive long distances.  No point restricting people if there isn't a local amenity to go to.

Edited March 7 by Marisawright

[Lavers 1,342]

10 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I was in Melbourne at the time.  Let's say it was 10,000, that's still a very small percentage of the Melbourne population

It's a great excuse isn't it, "Oh, all the people who didn't demonstrate were just scared" or "all the people who didn't demonstrate were just apathetic".   Why are you so convinced that the explanation can't possibly be that they supported the government's stance?  Didn't you notice that we voted Dan Andrews back in?  If people hadn't been supportive of his policies, he'd have got chucked out at the election and he wasn't, not by a mile.

I never said the majority didn’t approve but I just feel like you always underplay things and ridicule. 10,000 is a big difference compared to 5,000.

Also it’s not an excuse saying not everyone protests. Maybe 50% believe the gov, 40% will go along with the crowd then 10% actually think for themselves.

Edited March 7 by Lavers