Is there anything wrong with Sutherland Shire

[richselina]

Hi,

I’m scouring Sydney suburbs and you seem to get a lot more house for the dollar around the Sutherland Shire and just wondered if there’s a reason for that and what generally the area is like versus somewhere in the northern suburbs.  

any comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Ausvisitor]

Nothing wrong with it in general.

Pretty rubbish commute into the city, but most shire dwellers are wealthy enough that their public transport commutes are over and their drivers can just take the strain of the Sydney traffic.

Of course to a Brit, Sydney is upside down. northern suburbs are 50 K out of London, so is the shire.

50k north of London is Peterborough and 50k south is Farnham and the rest of the leafy southern home counties.

You wouldn't be surprised to see Farnham doubly the price of Peterborough, the same is true here (but North is the new South)

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, richselina said:

I’m scouring Sydney suburbs and you seem to get a lot more house for the dollar around the Sutherland Shire and just wondered if there’s a reason for that and what generally the area is like versus somewhere in the northern suburbs.  

It depends on you, really.  Northern Suburbs is where the posh people live. Senior executives etc.   The exception is the Northern Beaches which still have pockets of ordinary folk. Sutherland Shire is more middle-class, with pockets of bogans (chavs).  Personally, I always felt more at home in the Sutherland shire than the North Shore, because I found there was too much one-upmanship on the North Shore (what car do you drive, how much is your home worth etc). 

I disagree with @Ausvisitor about the rubbish commute from Sutherland Shire. It would be a rubbish commute by her standards, because she lives in the Inner West and could almost walk to the city!  However, if you're comparing it with the North Shore, the same rule applies to both:  if you're in a suburb along the train line, it's an easy commute.  If you're in a suburb a long way from the train line, be prepared for horrible traffic if you decide to drive into the city.  And don't assume every station has good parking, either.

In the Shire, East of the train line is much more built-up, with more amenities, better public transport etc.  West of the train line is very green and leafy, but check public transport and also the risk of flooding.  

By the way, it's wrong to say they're 50km from the city.  The bottom half of the Shire is the National Park, so you're unlikely to be looking any further south than Engadine, which is just over 30km from Wynyard.   

 

[Tychen]

For most working people the isolation transport-wise is the big issue. You can see it in the price difference between Como (Shire) and Oatley (St George), which are one stop apart on the train and otherwise fairly identical.

Take into account, though, a consequence of distance and geography is that the Shire is culturally insulated. This is much less pronounced than it used to be, but there are still a lot of people who live and socialise only in the shire, tradies who only work in the shire, etc. Basically, unlike most of Sydney, the Shire is its own little place, long term residents are keenly aware of that and proud of it, much like the hobbits. Most of the time that's charming, every once in a while the ugly edge comes out - most dramatically in the Cronulla race riots. Granted the Northern Beaches is also called the "insular peninsula" for a reason, but they don't have race riots.

If you are happy to get on board with that culture, it offers a great lifestyle, especially for families and retirees. It's got surf beaches facing the ocean and calm lagoons facing Port Hacking, forests and glens with wildlife, local cafes and also a shiny Westfield. Some excellent public schools as well.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Tychen

[Marisawright]

39 minutes ago, Tychen said:

For most working people the isolation transport-wise is the big issue. You can see it in the price difference between Como (Shire) and Oatley (St George), which are one stop apart on the train and otherwise fairly identical.

Take into account, though, a consequence of distance and geography is that the Shire is culturally insulated. This is much less pronounced than it used to be, but there are still a lot of people who live and socialise only in the shire, tradies who only work in the shire, etc. Basically, unlike most of Sydney, the Shire is its own little place, long term residents are keenly aware of that and proud of it, much like the hobbits. Most of the time that's charming, every once in a while the ugly edge comes out - most dramatically in the Cronulla race riots. Granted the Northern Beaches is also called the "insular peninsula" for a reason, but they don't have race riots.

If you are happy to get on board with that culture, it offers a great lifestyle, especially for families and retirees. It's got surf beaches facing the ocean and calm lagoons facing Port Hacking, forests and glens with wildlife, local cafes and also a shiny Westfield. Some excellent public schools as well.

I lived in Sydney for over 30 years.  I'd say the Outer West suburbs are "their own little place" as much as, if not more than, Sutherland Shire.  Same goes for the Upper North Shore (as you say, "the insular peninsula").   It's true there aren't as many tradies on the Upper North Shore, but that's not necessarily a good thing, because some of us would feel out of place amongst the twinset-and-pearls set.

Also worth noting that the Cronulla race riots were in 2005, nearly 20 years ago! Just goes to prove that a lot of the perceptions Sydneysiders have about other suburbs and other cities/towns is outdated.

I always found Sydney was very tribal in general.  I lived in the Eastern Suburbs for years.  Then we moved to the Lower North Shore and made some friends there, but it was interesting to note that some of my Eastern Suburbs acquaintances fell away.   Then when we moved again, to the Inner West, not one of those North Shore friends ever came across the Harbour to visit us -- we always had to visit them.  

[richselina]

 

It's not easy when you're looking on real estate at suburbs and it's not until you get the 'local' view when you start to understand whether it could be the right place so the comments are most appreciated.

We currently live in Adelaide in the foothills which is very pretty and peaceful, but for work and university reasons we want to up sticks and move to the big city towards the end of this year but not knowing Sydney as well as Adelaide, it's not that straightforward, hence the question about Sutherland Shire.  We're being quite pragmatic about where we live and as long as it's within an hours commute of the CBD, it should work given the balance of commuting and working from home.

Ideally, we would like to live somewhere similar to where we live now which is in a small suburb and surrounded by gum trees and nature but not sure where exactly that would be in and around Sydney.  Being near the beach isn't a major issue for us as we live 30 mins drive from one today, so anything within that distance would work for us.

I have looked at the line up to Hornsby but again don't know that area well so any suggestions would be more than appreciated.

We are planning to spend up to about $2.5m which we hope would find somewhere nice, but realistic that it won't be close to the CBD which is why we're looking further out.

Thanks in advance for any help....

[Tychen]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Also worth noting that the Cronulla race riots were in 2005, nearly 20 years ago! Just goes to prove that a lot of the perceptions Sydneysiders have about other suburbs and other cities/towns is outdated.

I met a highly educated professional who grew up in the Shire in that era and still feels very strongly in support of the local rioters...  I think the undercurrent hasn't disappeared. That said, I agree it's much less insular than it used to be - it helps that it's a more diverse area now. I doubt the racists can whip up a riot now - the insularity is more likely to show up as garden variety NIMBYism these days rather than actual xenophobia. 

[Tychen]

1 hour ago, richselina said:

I have looked at the line up to Hornsby but again don't know that area well so any suggestions would be more than appreciated.

I'd say with a $2.5m budget you can get a reasonable house in Hornsby or nearby, like Waitara or Normanhurst? I quite like Waitara - it's a bit built up around the station but it's probably quieter than Hornsby, and has all the useful shops nearby. Plenty of nature in the surrounds, and there are excellent schools in that area. Waitara is on the North Shore line through North Sydney, and Normanhurst is on the other line, which is express between Strathfield and the City - so both of them would give you an easy commute. 

If you follow the same train line further south towards Strathfield, places like Ryde should also be within your price range. There are some nice patches of nature around east Ryde, around Field of Mars and Buffalo Creek. Perhaps worth considering?

It's a healthy budget in the current market, I'm sure you'll find something in a nice-enough area.

[RobertsRoberts]

No