? Criminal record

[DXW059]

Hi,

Myself and my de facto partner have recently done our ACRO UK police checks - during the application for these checks we declared that my partner believed he had accepted a caution approx 10 years ago for getting involved in a fight in a nightclub - I was expecting the police check to come back for him as ‘no live trace’ but to our surprise it came back as ‘no trace’ like mine. Perhaps he didn’t actually get a criminal record then - it was a long time and he doesn’t remember much about it. As it shows no trace am I correct in thinking we wouldn’t need to declare the possible caution when applying for a skilled visa? of course had it shown no live trace we were planning on declaring. 

thanks

 

[bergerac14]

Hey,

Am currently going through the same process too, and had 'No Live Trace' come back on my partners. Depending on how far along you are in the process, i'd recommend applying for a Subject Access Request from acro also. Its free and takes up to 30 days, and includes all correspondance with the police. So at least you'll have a clear picture of whats actually on the record, and you then can declare to immigration accordingly. That will hopefully avoind any nasy surprises!

https://www.acro.police.uk/Subject-access-(1)

 

[Ausvisitor]

On 07/12/2022 at 04:29, DXW059 said:

Hi,

Myself and my de facto partner have recently done our ACRO UK police checks - during the application for these checks we declared that my partner believed he had accepted a caution approx 10 years ago for getting involved in a fight in a nightclub - I was expecting the police check to come back for him as ‘no live trace’ but to our surprise it came back as ‘no trace’ like mine. Perhaps he didn’t actually get a criminal record then - it was a long time and he doesn’t remember much about it. As it shows no trace am I correct in thinking we wouldn’t need to declare the possible caution when applying for a skilled visa? of course had it shown no live trace we were planning on declaring. 

thanks

 

Have you already put anything in writing on the immi portal that says you think you might have a criminal record?

If so you are probably going to have to think about how you explain that, just ignoring it won't help.

Have you got an agent they would know what to do here "off the top of their head"

I doubt you'll get any concrete answers on here about what to do, no agent is going to give free advice on this one because it involves criminal records so you will either have to be content with the good intentions of amateurs or talk to an agent, sorry...

Edited December 7, 2022 by Ausvisitor

[JD3006]

As far as I’m aware.. a caution is not a criminal record. 

[easterby91]

A caution is not a criminal record and does not need to be declared. It's exactly what it sounds like, a "Caution".. Don't do it again or you're getting the book thrown at you. Source: I have a caution from many years ago, didn't show up on police checks and did not need to declare it. 

[Parley]

2 hours ago, easterby91 said:

A caution is not a criminal record and does not need to be declared. It's exactly what it sounds like, a "Caution".. Don't do it again or you're getting the book thrown at you. Source: I have a caution from many years ago, didn't show up on police checks and did not need to declare it. 

It must get recorded somewhere.

Otherwise how do they know they gave you a caution last time and this time need to throw the book at you.

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, easterby91 said:

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Tulip1

[paulhand]

10 hours ago, Parley said:

It must get recorded somewhere.

Otherwise how do they know they gave you a caution last time and this time need to throw the book at you.

It does and it will show on an ACRO subject access request. 

[bergerac14]

Cautions most definitely are recorded and do show up on ACRO / SAR. My partner recently got his ACRO & SAR back - There was a reprimand on there for a broken window on a school bus in 2001 (Aged 12!) and a penalty notice for disorder which was verbally accepted without any arrests taking place. Neither of these were convictions and all are logged and reported back. So if you do have anything on your SAR, its better to declare it than not, because if they do check and then find out you lied, then bye bye visa!

[rammygirl]

But the op said the police check came back with no trace so maybe it wasn’t an official caution. If they mentioned it on their application then they could be asked for more info but …..

[Nemesis]

8 hours ago, rammygirl said:

But the op said the police check came back with no trace so maybe it wasn’t an official caution. If they mentioned it on their application then they could be asked for more info but …..

Could it have been a warning not a caution? Or even just a ticking-off? 

Many years ago (20 rather than 10) many cautions never made it to the national database, they were just held locally on paper files. And back then it was not unusual for paperwork to get lost, misfiled, etc. I’m sure that still happens now on occasion, especially in smaller stations

Titally agree that if they have mentioned it elsewhere they could be asked about it. And even if they haven’t, there have been occasions where paperwork turns up later and is input to the system months or even years after the offence, so non-declaration is a bit of a risk.

[Tulip1]

Whether it shows or not on a police certificate is irrelevant.  The person who said it doesn’t need to be disclosed is wrong.  When the application to request such things like a police certificate asks ‘have you ever been arrested, cautioned, convicted etc’ the answer to that question is yes (if you have)  It’s not for anyone to chose no because they don’t think it’s relevant, no is the false answer. It is officially recorded (for the purpose of ‘don’t do that again or next time you’ll get the book thrown at you - as quoted by easterby91 above - who incorrectly said it doesn’t need to be disclosed) It’s simple, read the question and answer it truthfully. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.  

[FirstWorldProblems]

1 hour ago, Tulip1 said:

‘have you ever been arrested, cautioned, convicted etc’ the answer to that question is yes (if you have)  

from the police check website:

What shows up on an ACRO police check?

It provides authenticated details of any convictions, cautions, reprimands, warning and conditional discharges in line with the ACRO step-down model. It also includes any impending prosecutions and offences that are under investigation.

 

Seems there is a gap. The ACRO questions ask if the application has ever been cautioned, arrested, charged, convicted etc.  But it won’t return a trace if there was only  a no conviction or charge.  
 

Perhaps the OP didn’t get an official caution.   
 

 

 

[Tulip1]

40 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

from the police check website:

What shows up on an ACRO police check?

It provides authenticated details of any convictions, cautions, reprimands, warning and conditional discharges in line with the ACRO step-down model. It also includes any impending prosecutions and offences that are under investigation.

 

Seems there is a gap. The ACRO questions ask if the application has ever been cautioned, arrested, charged, convicted etc.  But it won’t return a trace if there was only  a no conviction or charge.  
 

Perhaps the OP didn’t get an official caution.   
 

 

 

Then they have nothing to worry about.  The OP asked if they didn’t need to disclose something if it didn’t show on a police certificate and another poster said cautions don’t have to be disclosed.  Both are wrong.  If the question is asked it should be answered truthfully (as the OP rightly did when applying for the police check) It’s quite possible the OP didn’t get an official caution as they mention.  Perhaps they should clarify that with the authorities whether there was ever an official caution logged.  If it’s a no then problem solved.  They asked if it’s not showing on the certificate can I just answer no. The answer to that is you must declare it if you were issued it so they need to establish for sure.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by Tulip1

[Nemesis]

20 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Then they have nothing to worry about.  The OP asked if they didn’t need to disclose something if it didn’t show on a police certificate and another poster said cautions don’t have to be disclosed.  Both are wrong.  If the question is asked it should be answered truthfully (as the OP rightly did when applying for the police check) It’s quite possible the OP didn’t get an official caution as they mention.  Perhaps they should clarify that with the authorities whether there was ever an official caution logged.  If it’s a no then problem solved.  They asked if it’s not showing on the certificate can I just answer no. The answer to that is you must declare it if you were issued it so they need to establish for sure.  

The only way to clarify it is to get a Subject Access check. That will clarify if a caution is currently on file, and thats the best they are likely to get. Non appearance of a caution on there doesn’t necessarily mean it was never issued though. It could have been weeded, for many reasons, or just disappeared somewhere in mounds of paperwork and so never recorded on the database. 

As an example, thousands of cautions have been weeded (deleted from the database) over the years because of being a single offence within a certain period of years. Likewise many single convictions have been weeded due to being many yearsold and no further offencecommitted. It doesn’t mean they never existed, just thattheyqualified to be weeded and so no trace of them remains.Those people would receive Subject Access & ACRO checks stating “No Trace”

Edited January 15, 2023 by Nemesis