Elderly mum moving to Australia

[Col1986]

My mum is 74 and considering moving to Australia. I am her only remaining relative and I have Australian Citizenship. She would live with me and my husband once here. I have looked at the various options and looked through various posts on here and I see two ways forward: either non contributory or contributory aged parent visa. She would come here on a tourist visa and apply within Australia so that she could remain here while the visa is processed. I understand that the non contributory parent visa has a waiting list so long that it would ever be granted within her remaining lifetime, however, I have noticed from other posts that even the contributory aged parent visa seems to have a 10 year queue list now (or longer). So one question is, what is the point of apply for a contributory visa given her age? Would she get access to anything different to the non-contributory visa during the wait period for her application to be processed? Also, when is the medical normally requested? Is this immediately on queuing of the application or during the application wait period, or once it has come out of the queue for processing? Finally, would mum still have access to Medicare given the reciprocal health agreement with the UK pending the application being processed?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Marisawright]

You are right, probably no point applying for the contributory visa now as the waiting list is more like 15 years if you applied today.

If she is living in the UK immediately before the move, she will have access to reciprocal Medicare.  Strictly speaking, that covers essential care only:  any treatment which could wait until she flies back to the UK, is not supposed to be covered. HOWEVER, in practice, that's not what happens. People seem to get the same Medicare coverage as Australians.  

Of course, that doesn't cover prescriptions.  She'll be used to getting free prescriptions at home and in Australia she'll have to pay the usual prescription cost, the same as you pay.  Note that she won't get the concession rate like an Australian pensioner.   You would also be aware that spectacles and dental are private.   If she wants to get private health insurance, the only one she can get is the Overseas Visitor Health Insurance, which is quite a bit more expensive than the policies available to Australians.

[Col1986]

Thanks for this. Do you know anything about the timing of the medical?

 

[LindaH27]

3 hours ago, Col1986 said:

Thanks for this. Do you know anything about the timing of the medical?

 

It’s around 3 years after application. She will have to be self supporting more or less as wouldn’t be able to access any benefits and her UK pension will be frozen as it was at the date she leaves UK and will not be eligible for the Australian pension which is means tested.  Reciprocal health care is available but not Aged care. That wouldn’t be available either at home or in care home as a benefit and would have to be paid for privately. You do need deep pockets on the non Contributory visa because you’re only classed as a temporary resident so not a lot of pensioner concessions are available. Should her health deteriorate badly so that the costs to govt become expensive (over $51000) there have been a few cases where they have been asked to leave. Also govt do not like 804 and there have been attempts previously to stop this visa. Because the wait for the contributory has ballooned out a lot of applicants are changing to 804 putting more pressure on govt finances so it’s something the new govt  will probably be looking at. 

[Col1986]

Thanks for that information. Does that mean if we apply for a contributory visa 864, if she fell ill in the meantime she could still be sent back to the UK or would that more likely happen on the non contributory 804. It seems harsh to send someone home if they are showing willing to pay to be here but the government is slow in processing. Maybe it is better to apply for the 864 (given that we will probably never have to pay the full fee anyway with a 15 year wait) if the government don't like the 804 visa. Happy to pay if it means she gets to stay. If she has full health insurance anyway, why would the health costs be a burden on the government?

[LindaH27]

2 minutes ago, Col1986 said:

Thanks for that information. Does that mean if we apply for a contributory visa 864, if she fell ill in the meantime she could still be sent back to the UK or would that more likely happen on the non contributory 804. It seems harsh to send someone home if they are showing willing to pay to be here but the government is slow in processing. Maybe it is better to apply for the 864 (given that we will probably never have to pay the full fee anyway with a 15 year wait) if the government don't like the 804 visa. Happy to pay if it means she gets to stay. If she has full health insurance anyway, why would the health costs be a burden on the government?

Possibly also on 864 as it will be years before they get the grant so that’s years of relying on reciprocal health care. Even if you apply for 143 and fail the medical at the end stage of the processing you will not be given the grant. So I assume the same for 864 and obviously as she ages she will have more problems and more medication. 
 

The argument  about not being a burden with full health insurance has continued for quite a while. Aged health insurance is expensive and will only increase with age and claims. It would have to be monitored by govt and checked every year I suppose. Some will not be able to carry on paying - are they then supposed to be asked to leave ? Opens up a minefield.
 

In common with every country worldwide Australia is facing a demographic timebomb - a rapidly ageing and expensive population - they don’t really want to import more old people.  And I say all this as someone who’s been waiting offshore for 5 years now and no nearer getting a grant. Yes I would like to be there but yes I can  understand Australia’s desire to have younger skilled workers than more potentially expensive elderly people. NHS in UK is floundering and I believe there are also concerns about the future of Medicare. 

Its obviously entirely up to you what you decide what to do - just make sure you’re aware of all the pros and cons of an onshore application. UK doesn’t even offer a parent visa! 

[Marisawright]

58 minutes ago, Col1986 said:

Thanks for that information. Does that mean if we apply for a contributory visa 864, if she fell ill in the meantime she could still be sent back to the UK or would that more likely happen on the non contributory 804. It seems harsh to send someone home if they are showing willing to pay to be here 

 If she has full health insurance anyway, why would the health costs be a burden on the government?

The trouble is that the fee they're willing to pay is inadequate.  Once awarded the 864, she'd be entitled to full Medicare plus aged care and other benefits, which the government's research has shown far exceeds the fee paid.  

Also the problem is that the government can't force her to claim on her full health insurance and she's not obligated to maintain it, either.  She's entitled to reciprocal Medicare and I'm pretty sure she would use it, if only for her GP visits, pathology tests and her prescriptions.  

Edited August 8, 2022 by Marisawright

[LindaH27]

17 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

The crazy thing is that the government blocks people from getting the parent visas but then allows them to stay on bridging visas with reciprocal Medicare, which then still costs the government a lot of money.  

Exactly ! People who apply offshore for contributory visas have to wait offshore for their grants but more and more people are using a visitor visa then getting a bridging visa so effectively  “living” in Australia as soon as they land. The increasing cost to the Australian taxpayer with reciprocal care is not sustainable and govt  have already mentioned there are too many people on bridging visas already. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by LindaH27

[Jon the Hat]

On 08/08/2022 at 18:08, LindaH27 said:

Exactly ! People who apply offshore for contributory visas have to wait offshore for their grants but more and more people are using a visitor visa then getting a bridging visa so effectively  “living” in Australia as soon as they land. The increasing cost to the Australian taxpayer with reciprocal care is not sustainable and govt  have already mentioned there are too many people on bridging visas already. 

I suppose the alternative given the current timelines is to effectively stop new applications.  With a huge number of people in Australia born overseas, this may not be a vote winner.

[LindaH27]

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I suppose the alternative given the current timelines is to effectively stop new applications.  With a huge number of people in Australia born overseas, this may not be a vote winner.

It may be a vote winner for those Australians born overseas whose parents with applications for contributory parent visas (which greatly outnumber non contributory) who have been waiting  offshore for many more years than they expected and are willing to pay a large sum of money for it! 

[wrussell]

Take some professional advice.