Credit card refusal

[Whey aye]

If it works great.Rules that applied 10 years ago don't apply now.

Do a simple cost/ benefit analysis.If I spend $60K a year for the next 10 years I'll have 600,000 points and a free ticket ,I'm the winner.I'm last in line on the plane because it's a ' free ticket'.

Just pay for the ticket,less stress, and travel whenever you want,and probably ( I would say definately) cheaper.

[Whey aye]

If it works great.Rules that applied 10 years ago don't apply now.

Do a simple cost/ benefit analysis.If I spend $60K a year for the next 10 years I'll have 600,000 points and a free ticket ,I'm the winner.I'm last in line on the plane because it's a ' free ticket'.

Just pay for the ticket,less stress, and travel whenever you want,and probably ( I would say definately) cheaper.

The seat you will probably win for your free prize will be the middle seat up against the last bulkhead.Where the plane narrows in towards the tail.Where the kitchen and the toilets are 

[Parley]

20 minutes ago, Whey aye said:

If it works great.Rules that applied 10 years ago don't apply now.

Do a simple cost/ benefit analysis.If I spend $60K a year for the next 10 years I'll have 600,000 points and a free ticket ,I'm the winner.I'm last in line on the plane because it's a ' free ticket'.

Just pay for the ticket,less stress, and travel whenever you want,and probably ( I would say definately) cheaper.

It only makes sense if you only spend on the credit card things you would buy anyway, even if pulling cash out of your wallet or purse.

Psychologically it is easier to buy using a credit card so people inevitably spend more than they would if using cash or their own money. The inclination is to buy now and worry about the money later.

[Marisawright]

39 minutes ago, Parley said:

It only makes sense if you only spend on the credit card things you would buy anyway, even if pulling cash out of your wallet or purse.

Psychologically it is easier to buy using a credit card so people inevitably spend more ....

Speak for yourself. Just because you can't control your spending, doesn't mean other people can't.

For many years, when I first got a credit card, I carried a little notebook where I kept track of my bank balance and deducted my credit card purchases from my balance as I purchased things (even though I knew I didn't have to pay them till later).  Maybe that 'training' is why I still think of my credit card purchases the same way I think about cash purchases. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Marisawright

[ramot]

8 hours ago, Whey aye said:

If it works great.Rules that applied 10 years ago don't apply now.

Do a simple cost/ benefit analysis.If I spend $60K a year for the next 10 years I'll have 600,000 points and a free ticket ,I'm the winner.I'm last in line on the plane because it's a ' free ticket'.

Just pay for the ticket,less stress, and travel whenever you want,and probably ( I would say definately) cheaper.

The seat you will probably win for your free prize will be the middle seat up against the last bulkhead.Where the plane narrows in towards the tail.Where the kitchen and the toilets are 

Can always use your points on shore. Having travelled as staff on standby tickets for more years than I care to remember, I was grateful to get a cheap seat, irrespective of its position, usually the last row where seats didn’t recline, quite useful though being near the galley, often good for an extra cup of tea or snack if you ask. still any seat better than not travelling. 

[Ken]

On 04/07/2022 at 16:28, Fisher1 said:

Hi all,    I recently decided to apply for a credit card because I wanted to get airmiles rewards on my spending - it seemed like a good idea at the time. I am now an Australian citizen, have had my account with the bank in question for ten years, loads of money through it and never overdrawn.  I’ve been living at the same address in Australia for just over four years. I have a retirement income well in excess of the minimum outlined by the bank, and have most of it transferred here from the UK.  So I was gobsmacked to be told by a not-very-nice man on zoom (in the manager’s office, in place of the manager!) that I was not eligible for a credit card.     I notice they have recently changed their web page eligibility criteria to include the need for a verifiable Australian income. I’ve decided the airmiles aren’t worth it, but this seems crazy to me.   Is this typical, or are all Australian banks weird about foreign income?

You've got it all backwards. They turned you down because it's obvious that you are never going to borrow any money on that card. There's no profit in it for the bank if you aren't going to pay their extortionate interest rate. Yes they make a little bit from the vendors when you make a purchase - but they'll still do that if you use your debit card and they don't need to share that with the airmiles company.

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, Whey aye said:

If it works great.Rules that applied 10 years ago don't apply now.

Do a simple cost/ benefit analysis.If I spend $60K a year for the next 10 years I'll have 600,000 points and a free ticket

I have a credit card that gives me points, not air miles.  Of course they try to get you to use them for air miles or luxury stuff you don't need, BUT I can also exchange points for gift cards, or for cash paid into my bank account.  That's what I do.  That makes it easy to check that my 'rewards' add up to more than the credit card fee every year (the year they don't, will be the year I cut up the credit card and start using my debit card instead). 

I know there are people who buy stuff they don't need just to get points.  No idea why anyone would be that stupid.  I just buy what I need and the points are a bonus.

[Fisher1]

On 12/07/2022 at 09:56, Whey aye said:

If it works great.Rules that applied 10 years ago don't apply now.

Do a simple cost/ benefit analysis.If I spend $60K a year for the next 10 years I'll have 600,000 points and a free ticket ,I'm the winner.I'm last in line on the plane because it's a ' free ticket'.

Just pay for the ticket,less stress, and travel whenever you want,and probably ( I would say definately) cheaper.

The seat you will probably win for your free prize will be the middle seat up against the last bulkhead.Where the plane narrows in towards the tail.Where the kitchen and the toilets are 

I was thinking more about being able to upgrade to a different class using airmiles.

[Fisher1]

22 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I have a credit card that gives me points, not air miles.  Of course they try to get you to use them for air miles or luxury stuff you don't need, BUT I can also exchange points for gift cards, or for cash paid into my bank account.  That's what I do.  That makes it easy to check that my 'rewards' add up to more than the credit card fee every year (the year they don't, will be the year I cut up the credit card and start using my debit card instead). 

I know there are people who buy stuff they don't need just to get points.  No idea why anyone would be that stupid.  I just buy what I need and the points are a bonus.

Exactly. I was saying airmiles but I'd be equally happy to have points - just a bonus on the shopping I'd be doing anyway.  I'm not that desperate, I was just gobsmacked at the idea that I could be refused a credit card before they even got round to asking details of my income! I was also annoyed because Mr Zoom also made it clear that he found it amusing that I was applying for a credit card and my husband would be the second card holder.  

[Fisher1]

On 12/07/2022 at 10:48, Marisawright said:

Speak for yourself. Just because you can't control your spending, doesn't mean other people can't.

For many years, when I first got a credit card, I carried a little notebook where I kept track of my bank balance and deducted my credit card purchases from my balance as I purchased things (even though I knew I didn't have to pay them till later).  Maybe that 'training' is why I still think of my credit card purchases the same way I think about cash purchases. 

haha I used to do that - I used to write each spend in the back of my cheque book as though I'd written a cheque, and work out the running total at the end of the day. 

[Flyboy68]

I have just come across this conversation and have had a similar experience. I am retired and recently came to Australia with my wife, who is an Australian citizen. I wanted a credit card here in Australia for a couple of reasons. My wife and I travel a lot, and hotels and car hire companies, particularly in the US, often insist on a credit card to hold bookings. In addition, many credit cards in Australia have travel insurance bundled in with them and I wanted one of those cards, even although it comes with a substantial annual fee.

I am lucky to enjoy a reasonably comfortable private pension from one of the largest pension funds in the UK, so I thought, naively, that it would be easy to get a credit card. I was amazed to be rejected by the bank on the basis that they will not take any account of UK pension income.  This is a bizarre outcome - my income is readibly verifiable and is more stable and predictable than most people in employment, yet I am regarded by banks as having no income. Sadly the Australian Tax Office don't take this view, and will have no trouble in taking substantial amounts of income tax from my pension!

It looks as though I will never be able to get a credit card in Australia based on my income. Has anyone here had a similar experience and found a resolution?

[Tulip1]

8 minutes ago, Flyboy68 said:

I have just come across this conversation and have had a similar experience. I am retired and recently came to Australia with my wife, who is an Australian citizen. I wanted a credit card here in Australia for a couple of reasons. My wife and I travel a lot, and hotels and car hire companies, particularly in the US, often insist on a credit card to hold bookings. In addition, many credit cards in Australia have travel insurance bundled in with them and I wanted one of those cards, even although it comes with a substantial annual fee.

I am lucky to enjoy a reasonably comfortable private pension from one of the largest pension funds in the UK, so I thought, naively, that it would be easy to get a credit card. I was amazed to be rejected by the bank on the basis that they will not take any account of UK pension income.  This is a bizarre outcome - my income is readibly verifiable and is more stable and predictable than most people in employment, yet I am regarded by banks as having no income. Sadly the Australian Tax Office don't take this view, and will have no trouble in taking substantial amounts of income tax from my pension!

It looks as though I will never be able to get a credit card in Australia based on my income. Has anyone here had a similar experience and found a resolution?

Could your wife get one and have you as a secondary card holder.  That way you do at least have a credit card that you can use.  She doesn’t need to ever use it and you can pay it off every month.  You can also continue to use any UK ones that you have.  Not ideal as you’ll be charged for overseas use.  Still, if it’s just used for the odd car rental/hotel etc, you may just have to go with it.  

[Marisawright]

@Flyboy68, it doesn't surprise me and no, I'm not aware of any way around it. It's bonkers, but it's how the system works.  We struck similar issues as retired Aussies in the UK.  Why don't you continue to use your UK credit card?   If you have income in the UK, it should be easy enough for you to pay it off as needed. 

[rammygirl]

Maybe when you have been here longer and can show the regular income in dollars they will reconsider. Or simply shop around …..

[Marisawright]

29 minutes ago, rammygirl said:

Maybe when you have been here longer and can show the regular income in dollars they will reconsider. 

No, because they won't consider foreign pension income, full stop. 

[Flyboy68]

Tulip1,

Your suggestions are spot on. I am now a secondary holder on my wife's credit card and we have agreed that I can treat that card as though it's mine. I will also be maintaining at least one UK card witha sizeable credit limit and will use it for foreign currency spend outside Australia. It's a solution of sorts, but not a great one.

I still feel that the banks' behaviour is nonsensical. Having spent years foisting credit cards on people who couldn't repay, banks have now retreated behind a set of rules, applied with a "tick box" mentality, which leads to them being unable to recognise good customers.

Looks like I will have to accept that for as long as I live in Australia I will be a kind of financial pariah.

 

[ramot]

11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

No, because they won't consider foreign pension income, full stop. 

We actually had no problem at all when we came, the problem is if it’s outside the ‘norm’ then it’s easier to say no. 

We even got a Qantas card recently with no problem, and our income is from UK pensions. 

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Flyboy68 said:

Tulip1,

Your suggestions are spot on. I am now a secondary holder on my wife's credit card and we have agreed that I can treat that card as though it's mine. I will also be maintaining at least one UK card witha sizeable credit limit and will use it for foreign currency spend outside Australia. It's a solution of sorts, but not a great one.

I still feel that the banks' behaviour is nonsensical. Having spent years foisting credit cards on people who couldn't repay, banks have now retreated behind a set of rules, applied with a "tick box" mentality, which leads to them being unable to recognise good customers.

Looks like I will have to accept that for as long as I live in Australia I will be a kind of financial pariah.

 

Perhaps the rules have changed since we came 20 years ago ? We had no problem then, and recently considered changing banks, and there was no suggestion that our only income from UK was a problem, and as mentioned, my husband got  a Qantas card this year. 

[Ausvisitor]

Some of this depends on the situation though.

As a rough guide the Aussie credit card issuers work on a credit limit of around 1k for each 10k of income you earn. Most have minimum limits (generally 5k) so if your individual income isn't over 50k you aren't going to get anywhere.

If you can't show all your UK pension regularly hitting your AUS bank account then it isn't income it's savings or pocket money.

If you want it classed as income get it paid monthly (in full) direct to an Aussie account (like you would if it was a wage)

That said (as ramot) indicated loads of people are getting these cards with foreign income etc, so maybe the OP is actually failing one of the other affordability questions (given retirement is in play here it might be the fact they are applying for travel insurance cards which generally stop providing that cover at retirement age and AUS banks are scared of being hit with mis-selling scandal similar to the UK one recently)

 

[rammygirl]

Our Westpac credit card comes with no fee (provided we use it) and offers excellent travel insurance lasting until we are 81.

As suggested if your Uk pension is paid directly into your Australian account it will show as regular income.  

[ramot]

On 01/02/2023 at 06:44, Ausvisitor said:

Some of this depends on the situation though.

As a rough guide the Aussie credit card issuers work on a credit limit of around 1k for each 10k of income you earn. Most have minimum limits (generally 5k) so if your individual income isn't over 50k you aren't going to get anywhere.

If you can't show all your UK pension regularly hitting your AUS bank account then it isn't income it's savings or pocket money.

If you want it classed as income get it paid monthly (in full) direct to an Aussie account (like you would if it was a wage)

That said (as ramot) indicated loads of people are getting these cards with foreign income etc, so maybe the OP is actually failing one of the other affordability questions (given retirement is in play here it might be the fact they are applying for travel insurance cards which generally stop providing that cover at retirement age and AUS banks are scared of being hit with mis-selling scandal similar to the UK one recently)

 

We have all our income paid into UK bank, and transfer here as and when needed, so although we do transfer regularly, there is no fixed or regular amount. As previously mentioned we have had our cards since we retired here 20 years ago, and have travel insurance up to age 80 on our bank cards, so the rules might have changed, but my husband had no problem at all getting the Qantas card last year, So who knows 

[Tychen]

Not sure if this applies to credit cards but I've found that banks with cross border operations (eg HSBC) are generally friendlier to the fact that you might have income / assets overseas, compared to local Australian banks who always seem shocked that anyone might have money outside Australia.