NIN issues. Need help

[Guest]

Hi everyone,

So I moved to Australia as a minor (12 years old) due to a parents job opportunity, I gained Australian citizenship at 16 resulting in dual citizenship.

I am wanting to move back to the UK as I no longer have any family support here. 

My current situation is I have an expired child passport, I did have an adult UK passport that I got back in 2016 when I last visited the UK for a year but I’ve lost this since. I still have my UK birth certificate.

I have two children I am a sole parent of. Their father is no longer here and both were born in Australia therefore only have Australian citizenship.

I need to apply for both UK citizenships and then UK passports for both.

After this process. When I return to the UK I don’t have space to stay with family as they don’t have enough room but I’ve heard I’m able to continue my benefit payments I receive (Australia) for at least 12 months.  

I am bascially needing help with obtaining an NIN. I didn’t receive one (I don’t think) when I turned 16 as I wasn’t in the country. I also don’t have either parents to ask if they received child benefits for me. I’ve been trying to find ways to obtain my NIN number or apply for one but it’s super tricky seeing as I’m not in the country. Am I able to just come back to the UK and do a walk in and start the process in getting an National Insurance Number and in the meantime would I be able to get housing? I tried to do an application online for council housing but I need an NIN. This is my issue.

I’m just worried about coming back and not having anywhere to live but here I do not have anywhere stable to live either. It’s very tricky situation. I can only get the kids back when they have the citizenships and passports. For my UK one should I be just asking for a replacement or getting a new one when applying? 
Thanks for your patience reading this it’s a lot of info but I feel like I just need a little help to get everything together.

[Skani]

17 minutes ago, Southeastpom said:

...but I’ve heard I’m able to continue my benefit payments I receive (Australia) for at least 12 months.  

I can't help with the NIN issue but have you checked the above with the Services Australia department?  I assume you are receiving the Parenting Payment  (although you later say  "I can only get the kids back when they have the citizenships and passports.")  However this on the Services Australia website : 

Quote

On the day you claim Parenting Payment you must be an Australian resident and in Australia....  You must continue to meet the residence rules to keep getting this payment.

The same residence rules apply if you are currently receiving the Job Seeker Payment.

[Marisawright]

If you previously had an adult UK passport then it's on record, and you need to apply for a replacement.  

To get a National Insurance number, you must already be living in the UK.  So you'll have to wait until then.  Notice that you need a job offer, or be actively looking for work, to get an NI number. You can't apply for a NI number just because you want to claim benefits.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-national-insurance-number

Note that having a NI number doesn't automatically entitle you to any benefits.  You usually have to be "habitually resident"  to be eligible.  If you've been living overseas for more than 2 years, then you're not habitually resident and you'll have to establish residency before they'll consider you.  The problem with council housing is that there are waiting lists and most councils will give priority to people who've been living in the area longer, so I wouldn't fancy your chances.

It's a common misunderstanding -- people think that being a citizen is what counts for benefits, but more usually it's being a legal resident that is more important.

Also I strongly recommend going into Centrelink and asking them in person (not on the phone) about what will happen to your benefits if you go to the UK.  There is no social security agreement with the UK so I am pretty sure your payments will stop after 6 weeks.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Marisawright

[Toots]

51 minutes ago, Southeastpom said:

and in the meantime would I be able to get housing? I tried to do an application online for council housing but I need an NIN. This is my issue.

I’m just worried about coming back and not having anywhere to live but here I do not have anywhere stable to live either. It’s very tricky situation. I can only get the kids back when they have the citizenships and passports. For my UK one should I be just asking for a replacement or getting a new one when applying? 
Thanks for your patience reading this it’s a lot of info but I feel like I just need a little help to get everything together.

Do you mean government housing (council house)?  There can be fairly long waiting lists for council houses   .................  same as in Australia.

[Toots]

Here is some info from Citizens Advice re state/council housing and it doesn't look very promising.  You may need to stay with relatives for a while.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/social-housing/applying-for-social-housing/getting-a-council-home/

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Skani said:

I can't help with the NIN issue but have you checked the above with the Services Australia department?  I assume you are receiving the Parenting Payment  (although you later say  "I can only get the kids back when they have the citizenships and passports.")  However this on the Services Australia website : 

The same residence rules apply if you are currently receiving the Job Seeker Payment.

Hi thanks for you reply.

So they need British passports and citizenship. They only have Australian birth certificates as they were born here. I’ll show you the link I found. I will go in and speak to someone from te department at some point and see my eligibility.

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/travel-outside-australia-rules-for-parenting-payment?context=22196

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Toots said:

Here is some info from Citizens Advice re state/council housing and it doesn't look very promising.  You may need to stay with relatives for a while.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/social-housing/applying-for-social-housing/getting-a-council-home/

Hi thanks for your reply.

I had a read, it’s the same information what I’ve read up on already. It seems promising to me though, I don’t see anything bad on there? 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Toots said:

Do you mean government housing (council house)?  There can be fairly long waiting lists for council houses   .................  same as in Australia.

Yeah. It could be! One of my childhood friends who’s just move back to our hometown very recently,  it took her max of one month to get housing, I know it varies. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

If you previously had an adult UK passport then it's on record, and you need to apply for a replacement.  

To get a National Insurance number, you must already be living in the UK.  So you'll have to wait until then.  Notice that you need a job offer, or be actively looking for work, to get an NI number. You can't apply for a NI number just because you want to claim benefits.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-national-insurance-number

Note that having a NI number doesn't automatically entitle you to any benefits.  You usually have to be "habitually resident"  to be eligible.  If you've been living overseas for more than 2 years, then you're not habitually resident and you'll have to establish residency before they'll consider you.  The problem with council housing is that there are waiting lists and most councils will give priority to people who've been living in the area longer, so I wouldn't fancy your chances.

It's a common misunderstanding -- people think that being a citizen is what counts for benefits, but more usually it's being a legal resident that is more important.

Also I strongly recommend going into Centrelink and asking them in person (not on the phone) about what will happen to your benefits if you go to the UK.  There is no social security agreement with the UK so I am pretty sure your payments will stop after 6 weeks.

Hi thanks for you reply! This has been the clearest response I’ve had so far. Loads of information there. 
I will definitely go in and speak to someone about payments. 
I should of mentioned I’m taking at least £10,000 back with me to the UK. I wasn’t going to take anymore then this because then I’ll have to declare it, not sure what happens if I have to do this but I wanted to go back with some savings incase I can’t find somewhere to live right away. I have two children under 3years so it’s definitely a worry for me going back if we can’t actually get anywhere to live if I’m not eligible. 
So considering I’ve been out the country when I return to the UK I will need to live there for at least two years before I can apply for any sort of benefits and also I will need to be looking for work to apply for a National insurance number? 
It seems very difficult to get back then but I literally have no one here and am just stuck here bascially on my own. Have no family here anymore in Australia and my childrens late fathers family don’t live in Australia either. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Guest

[Toots]

12 minutes ago, Southeastpom said:

Yeah. It could be! One of my childhood friends who’s just move back to our hometown very recently,  it took her max of one month to get housing, I know it varies. 

One month is really good.  If you are moving back to the same area, fingers crossed you won't have to wait too long for a house either.  Your friend will be able to let you know more about housing there.  Some areas have HUGE waiting lists.

[Toots]

20 minutes ago, Southeastpom said:

Hi thanks for your reply.

I had a read, it’s the same information what I’ve read up on already. It seems promising to me though, I don’t see anything bad on there? 

No there's nothing bad about the information but it does state that there can be a long waiting time for housing in some areas.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Toots

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Toots said:

One month is really good.  If you are moving back to the same area, fingers crossed you won't have to wait too long for a house either.  Your friend will be able to let you know more about housing there.  Some areas have HUGE waiting lists.

Just read both your replies! Yes fingers crossed. Do you know much about National insurance number though? I need to have one to apply for housing. Am I able to apply for an NIN? I ask this because I have been out the country for all these years that’s my only concern that I might not be able to get one or as a previous person wrote I can’t just apply for one for benefits I need to be looking for work?

[Wa7]

10 minutes ago, Southeastpom said:

Just read both your replies! Yes fingers crossed. Do you know much about National insurance number though? I need to have one to apply for housing. Am I able to apply for an NIN? I ask this because I have been out the country for all these years that’s my only concern that I might not be able to get one or as a previous person wrote I can’t just apply for one for benefits I need to be looking for work?

Back in 2004 my Australian partner lived in the uk with me for a few years and I don’t remember there being any issues with getting a NI number/ card issued.

Also regarding your kids passports, I have an Australian born child so simply applied for a British passport for them ( I am British born to British born parents )

[rammygirl]

The declaring amounts over 10,000 only applies to hard cash. Surely you are not planning to take so much cash with you. Use a currency card or another way (check fees) until you can open a Uk bank account then transfer cash across using a money transfer company. 
 

 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Southeastpom said:

Just read both your replies! Yes fingers crossed. Do you know much about National insurance number though? I need to have one to apply for housing. Am I able to apply for an NIN? I ask this because I have been out the country for all these years that’s my only concern that I might not be able to get one or as a previous person wrote I can’t just apply for one for benefits I need to be looking for work?

Like the link says, you are entitled to apply for a NI number AFTER you arrive in the UK AND can prove you're either looking for work OR have a job offer. Until then, you can't. It's stated very clearly on that document I linked to.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Southeastpom said:

I should of mentioned I’m taking at least £10,000 back with me to the UK. I wasn’t going to take anymore then this because then I’ll have to declare it,

If you have savings in Australia and you don't declare them, you're committing fraud and could go to jail.   Your assets are your assets, it doesn't matter what country they're in at the time.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Southeastpom said:

I will go in and speak to someone from te department at some point and see my eligibility.

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/travel-outside-australia-rules-for-parenting-payment?context=22196

If you read the page you linked to, where do you think you'd be eligible to keep getting your parenting payment?  I can't see anything there that says you can.

[Skani]

2 hours ago, Southeastpom said:

I’ll show you the link I found. I will go in and speak to someone from te department at some point and see my eligibility.

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/travel-outside-australia-rules-for-parenting-payment?context=22196

Do that.  The link says a person is eligible for a maximum of 6 weeks payments unless moving to a country with a reciprocal Social Security agreement with Australia.  If you follow their link to the countries in Europe it shows that the UK no longer has a reciprocal agreement with Australia.

[Toots]

2 hours ago, Southeastpom said:

Just read both your replies! Yes fingers crossed. Do you know much about National insurance number though? I need to have one to apply for housing. Am I able to apply for an NIN? I ask this because I have been out the country for all these years that’s my only concern that I might not be able to get one or as a previous person wrote I can’t just apply for one for benefits I need to be looking for work?

  You must be in the UK when you apply for a NIN.  You will also need an actual UK address where they can send your NIN to  ........   also you would have to live in the UK for 3 months before you could claim benefits.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Toots

[Toots]

You will probably have to pass the Habitual Residency Test.  Read this carefully.  Scroll down to "Showing you're habitually resident".

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/claiming-benefits-if-youre-from-the-EU/before-you-apply/check-if-you-can-pass-the-habitual-residence-test-for-benefits/

Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but this will apply to anybody from Australia who is returning to the UK to live.

[Amber Snowball]

1 hour ago, rammygirl said:

The declaring amounts over 10,000 only applies to hard cash. Surely you are not planning to take so much cash with you. Use a currency card or another way (check fees) until you can open a Uk bank account then transfer cash across using a money transfer company. 
 

 

The £10000 rules as noted above are for actual cash, so use an exchange company to move your money once you have a bank account in the uk and a currency card in the interim.

I moved the proceeds of my house sale over, as long as you can account for where the money has come from its fine.

4 minutes ago, Toots said:

You will probably have to pass the Habitual Residency Test.  Read this carefully.  Scroll down to "Showing you're habitually resident".

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/claiming-benefits-if-youre-from-the-EU/before-you-apply/check-if-you-can-pass-the-habitual-residence-test-for-benefits/

Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but this will apply to anybody from Australia who is returning to the UK to live.

There’s a section on that website for returning British citizens and you have to have been living in the uk for 3 months to show habitual residency.

As far as I am aware you can’t claim benefits if you have more than £16000 in savings.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Wa7 said:

Back in 2004 my Australian partner lived in the uk with me for a few years and I don’t remember there being any issues with getting a NI number/ card issued.

Also regarding your kids passports, I have an Australian born child so simply applied for a British passport for them ( I am British born to British born parents )

Thanks for your response! How long ago was it when you got their passports? 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, rammygirl said:

The declaring amounts over 10,000 only applies to hard cash. Surely you are not planning to take so much cash with you. Use a currency card or another way (check fees) until you can open a Uk bank account then transfer cash across using a money transfer company. 
 

 

Oh okay!! Thank you for this. I had no idea. Do you know if the fee is high for international money transfer? 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Like the link says, you are entitled to apply for a NI number AFTER you arrive in the UK AND can prove you're either looking for work OR have a job offer. Until then, you can't. It's stated very clearly on that document I linked to.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Amber Snowball said:

The £10000 rules as noted above are for actual cash, so use an exchange company to move your money once you have a bank account in the uk and a currency card in the interim.

I moved the proceeds of my house sale over, as long as you can account for where the money has come from its fine.

There’s a section on that website for returning British citizens and you have to have been living in the uk for 3 months to show habitual residency.

As far as I am aware you can’t claim benefits if you have more than £16000 in savings.

Thank you SO much for this!