RRV if PR is expired

[Ally]

Hello!

I am currently out of AU and planning to go back in a year or 2, but my PR will be expired by that time (and I didn't stay in AU for 2 years within last 5 years). Will I be granted  RRV visa in this case? I read that a person has to have sufficient ties to apply for RRV. I have 2 sons , one of them has AU citiztnship and he is under 18y.o. and the second has PR that will be expired in 2024.

Appreciate all your comments.

[Marisawright]

If you don't meet the residency criteria, (2 years out of the last 5 years in Australia) then you've lost the right to an automatic RRV.  Because of that, it's always safer to return and settle in Australia and  before your current PR travel facility expires.  Otherwise you might find yourself locked out.

You can still apply for a RRV, but it's entirely up to the discretion of the Immigration department whether they decide to grant one. You will have to provide evidence of "strong ties to Australia".  

If your sons are citizens/permanent residents AND have homes and jobs in Australia, that might count as a strong tie. If they're living abroad, probably not.

[Ally]

47 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

If you don't meet the residency criteria, (2 years out of the last 5 years in Australia) then you've lost the right to an automatic RRV.  Because of that, it's always safer to return and settle in Australia and  before your current PR travel facility expires.  Otherwise you might find yourself locked out.

You can still apply for a RRV, but it's entirely up to the discretion of the Immigration department whether they decide to grant one. You will have to provide evidence of "strong ties to Australia".  

If your sons are citizens/permanent residents AND have homes and jobs in Australia, that might count as a strong tie. If they're living abroad, probably not.

Thanks for your comment. But if one of my son is a citizen (not just PR) and he is just 9 y.o. and obviously can't go to Australia to live and get education (for example) alone is there a chance that his mother who has expired PR (me:) won't get RRV to come to AU? Really? Isn't my son too small to go to live in AU by himself and taking into consideration that he is a citizen of course?

Edited April 26, 2022 by Ally

[Marisawright]

38 minutes ago, Ally said:

Thanks for your comment. But if one of my son is a citizen (not just PR) and he is just 9 y.o. and obviously can't go to Australia to live and get education (for example) alone is there a chance that his mother who has expired PR (me:) won't get RRV to come to AU? 

It might pay to consult an agent (which would only be a small cost) to get a definitive answer, because I'm not an expert. 

However, the rule is "strong ties to Australia".   Your son has (I assume) dual citizenship but otherwise, no connection to Australia. If, when he grows up, he comes to Australia and makes a home here, then that would be a strong tie. Right now, I wouldn't bank on it without checking with a professional. 

 

[paulhand]

8 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

It might pay to consult an agent (which would only be a small cost) to get a definitive answer, because I'm not an expert. 

Agreed. Having an Australian citizen minor child is generally considered a substantial tie, but more information is needed to make a proper assessment.

[Ally]

1 hour ago, paulhand said:

Agreed. Having an Australian citizen minor child is generally considered a substantial tie, but more information is needed to make a proper assessment.

May I ask where can I get more info about my issue?

 

Thanks

[Ally]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

It might pay to consult an agent (which would only be a small cost) to get a definitive answer, because I'm not an expert. 

However, the rule is "strong ties to Australia".   Your son has (I assume) dual citizenship but otherwise, no connection to Australia. If, when he grows up, he comes to Australia and makes a home here, then that would be a strong tie. Right now, I wouldn't bank on it without checking with a professional. 

 

Yes, I understand your point. I just don't think that Australia can say "no" to it's citizen (who has a right to get education for example or work) only cos his parents PR is expired. It means the kid immediately lose his right to live and study in AU even being a citizen.

[Nemesis]

3 hours ago, Ally said:

May I ask where can I get more info about my issue?

 

Thanks

Probably by connecting with paulhand for a proper consultation.

[wrussell]

 If they're living abroad, probably not. Certainly not!

[Marisawright]

8 hours ago, Ally said:

Yes, I understand your point. I just don't think that Australia can say "no" to it's citizen (who has a right to get education for example or work) only cos his parents PR is expired. It means the kid immediately lose his right to live and study in AU even being a citizen.

Well, no he doesn't, because there are boarding schools and university halls of residence, and most Australian kids would have an Australian relative or two to act as guardian.   He has every right to work, of course, but he'll be an adult then and the government attitude is that an adult doesn't need his parents.

To give you some background on this, the whole RRV/citizen system was created because too many people abused the old systems.  People would migrate from unstable countries in the Middle East or Asia, stay long enough to establish a right to residency, then go back to live in their home country, knowing they could always run back to Australia if there was trouble - or maybe they'd come back to Australia in retirement and claim the pension, having contributed almost nothing.  

So now there are all kinds of hoops, so that people have to prove they genuinely want to make their home in Australia and be Australian.  It's tough on people who do want that, but are forced by circumstances to leave (I assume this is your situation), but the government's job is to act in the best interests of the country, so there have to be rules.  

Edited April 26, 2022 by Marisawright

[Ally]

8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Well, no he doesn't, because there are boarding schools and university halls of residence, and most Australian kids would have an Australian relative or two to act as guardian.   He has every right to work, of course, but he'll be an adult then and the government attitude is that an adult doesn't need his parents.

To give you some background on this, the whole RRV/citizen system was created because too many people abused the old systems.  People would migrate from unstable countries in the Middle East or Asia, stay long enough to establish a right to residency, then go back to live in their home country, knowing they could always run back to Australia if there was trouble - or maybe they'd come back to Australia in retirement and claim the pension, having contributed almost nothing.  

So now there are all kinds of hoops, so that people have to prove they genuinely want to make their home in Australia and be Australian.  It's tough on people who do want that, but are forced by circumstances to leave (I assume this is your situation), but the government's job is to act in the best interests of the country, so there have to be rules.  

If I am not wrong u can't get pension if you have never worked in Australia. Moreover I am sure that living in retirement in Australia is too expensive for a lot of people so it's not the best country to choose it for that purpose) Anyway it's off the topic. I will contact suggested agent to clarify.

P.S. the strange thing for me is that AU says "If you get PR it is "forever"" and then u realize there are too many details and rules under that point))

[Marisawright]

22 minutes ago, Ally said:

the strange thing for me is that AU says "If you get PR it is "forever"" 

Do they, really?

[Peach]

13 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Do they, really?

Yes, your PR visa never expires, you can stay here forever - but your ability to use it for entry into Australia expires after 4/5 years (can't remember which).

[wrussell]

5 years. I do my best to ensure that my clients read and understand their visa grant letters.

[paulhand]

10 hours ago, Peach said:

your PR visa never expires, you can stay here forever 

Your permanent visa does expire if you are offshore and past the end date. The stay period is only indefinite if you remain onshore. If you want to travel you need a new permanent visa (an RRV). 

[Eire]

Hi all.

Could anyone tell me if allowances are made for RRV applications, with regards the 2/5 year residing in AU rule, where the applicant could not return to AU due to Borders being closed during Covid and they had numerous flights cancelled due to this?

Any information would be appreciated. 

Thank you

[paulhand]

49 minutes ago, Eire said:

Hi all.

Could anyone tell me if allowances are made for RRV applications, with regards the 2/5 year residing in AU rule, where the applicant could not return to AU due to Borders being closed during Covid and they had numerous flights cancelled due to this?

Any information would be appreciated. 

Thank you

No - there are no "allowances" - if you do not meet the 2 in 5 requirement, you will need to apply on the basis of "substantial ties of benefit'. The borders were never closed to permanent residents (other than for a few weeks from India). 

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, Eire said:

Could anyone tell me if allowances are made for RRV applications, with regards the 2/5 year residing in AU rule, where the applicant could not return to AU due to Borders being closed during Covid and they had numerous flights cancelled due to this?

No, unfortunately not.  It's worth noting that even if they were lenient while the borders were actually closed, it's been eight months since then.

[Eire]

Thanks for the info. Very much appreciated