Still here and still feel the pull

[Marisawright]

10 minutes ago, Nanna said:

I'm so confused and stressed out. Australia with children around especially if support needed but with extreme weather or UK with more  variety but dread of being alone in old age.  

You do sound confused and stressed out.  Like I said, it does feel as though stress is making you think in extremes.  It's EITHER you stay in the UK, in which case apparently your son would manage fine with his business and children, OR you have to be right next door because he's so helpless he can't cope on his own.  That doesn't make sense, sorry.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Marisawright

[Nanna]

I think it's more to do with not having them in my life rather than the other way round.  The prospect of the survivor of us without ANY family is stressful enough.  Its so sad but my husband says as we are so much better off here financially it coild be too great a risk - one he isn't certain we should take - and we certainly couldn't waste money on rent.  It's not a nice feeling to be so unhappy you are not sure which way to go at the crossroads.   Hence I am 'stuck'. 

I thank you all for trying to help.  X

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, Nanna said:

I think it's more to do with not having them in my life rather than the other way round.  The prospect of the survivor of us without ANY family is stressful enough.  Its so sad but my husband says as we are so much better off here financially it coild be too great a risk - one he isn't certain we should take - and we certainly couldn't waste money on rent.  It's not a nice feeling to be so unhappy you are not sure which way to go at the crossroads.   Hence I am 'stuck'. 

I thank you all for trying to help.  X

If you definitely have PR then you should go if you want to be near your family.  You don’t have to have medical insurance with PR and after 10 years you will be entitled to an aged pension (should you be low on funds and income by then) and if you go on to need more such as care home facilities that would likely be covered too.  Having $600k available and what sounds like no mortgage puts you in a better position than many that take the leap.  There seems little doubt you will be financially better off in the UK but happiness isn’t always measured by a big bank balance.  

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, Nanna said:

I think it's more to do with not having them in my life rather than the other way round. 

I do think the stress is making you a bit illogical about it.  You've put yourself in a situation where you are choosing between "seeing my family only once a year"  and "being with them ALL  THE TIME".  

There is a middle ground, and that is living close enough that you can visit on weekends and holidays, and they can visit you, BUT you can also build your own life with new friends your own age.  Living a little further away might allow you to get a cheaper home, which will make you feel more secure and give you more money to spend on the grandkids. 

Has your son actually said he wants you to help in the business or help with the grandkids?  Or is that just you wanting to feel useful?  Remember that it's his life now and he might actually NOT want you peering over his shoulder all the time. 

[Quoll]

16 hours ago, Nanna said:

Not goid at all.  We need to be near the sobs to help run their business and with the grandchildren . We now think we will be taxed on our UK pension which we have tax free here but at 32.5% in Australia?  It just doesn't get better  a quote fir pvt health was £5000 2 years ago.  We calculate with the high house prices a high rates and vist if living about $80k with pvt medical.  So all in all  . So $600k and $20 now In  pensions it would last 19 years if no medical issues - unlikely at our  age and the stress we are under. We have the RRV, I think I mentioned which one earlier.  I can't sleep for fear of what to do.  

If you’re helping out with the kids and the business, won’t your kids pay you for that? Is that what you want to do with your retirement? 

[Quoll]

6 hours ago, Nanna said:

I think it's more to do with not having them in my life rather than the other way round.  The prospect of the survivor of us without ANY family is stressful enough.  Its so sad but my husband says as we are so much better off here financially it coild be too great a risk - one he isn't certain we should take - and we certainly couldn't waste money on rent.  It's not a nice feeling to be so unhappy you are not sure which way to go at the crossroads.   Hence I am 'stuck'. 

I thank you all for trying to help.  X

Where is “your” life? Where are your friends, familiar places, things you want to do?  Your kids are going to be just 24-36 hours away from you so if you need them they can be there.  
What would you do if you had no kids? you’d manage your older age then surely? My aunt and uncle had no kids but they had amazing friends and extended family who were there for them. Most of us have that. OTOH I have a friend who has nothing, absolutely nobody, so she put herself into an aged care facility in her 60s where she has her own unit, looks after herself, travels (a lot!!!) and has a wide social network of friends inside and outside the facility. It’s perfectly do-able. We are your age and one son is 24 hours away in U.K. and the other is 4 hours away with his own stuff going on. I don’t expect either of them to drop everything and run to us and they are certainly very independent, neither of them need us peering over their shoulders. We are comfortable enough that we can visit them or even buy a tank of petrol or an air fare for them to come and see us if need be. 
At our age I think we might plan for our independent age needs but we have as much right as they to be where we want to be, do what we want to do without hanging around their necks!  I guess I had good modelling - my parents did just that, we made the decision to go and support them for the last years of their lives but I had no compunction about leaving dad, on his own, in a great care home that he enjoyed. He felt more independent in the home than he did with us there caring for him 24/7 and I respected his need to regain that control of his life.  I think at our age we all fear the unknown of our last years but in the meantime we need to kick up our heels and do what is right for US! 
Look after yourself! 

[proud preston]

@Lucia  I really feel for you. My mum died 2 yeas ago. I was there as she passed. At that time we had lived here for 13 years. Poor love had dementia. Prior to her dementia taking hold she would ask me so often ‘Do you think you’ll ever come back to England?’ and add -  ‘ I really miss you’ My deep regret is missing out on the 13 years of my mum’s life. We were always so close and I begrudgingly moved over here. I would have loved to have been able to see her far more regularly - even if I’d lived in London and she in Lancashire - better than the Southern Hemisphere. Sometimes I want to sob so much with regret and deep sadness. I miss her so much and I miss what life may have been like had we not moved here. I miss siblings too. I have 5 and we get on really well. There’s times when I say to myself ‘ what the $&ck am I doing here?!’ Seems madness to move to the other side of the world when there was nothing wrong with the life I had back home. My husband thought that this would be a great opportunity for us as a family and I (sick of my job at the time) agreed - thinking it was a ‘2 year thing’ 

I wish you all the best. I could not stand to leave my teenage sons - who really are Australians now and I know that I just have to ‘bury it’ as has been mentioned. Things could be a lot worse and sometimes I need to remind myself of that. Thank goodness for British telly! 

[Parley]

14 hours ago, Quoll said:

Where is “your” life? Where are your friends, familiar places, things you want to do?  Your kids are going to be just 24-36 hours away from you so if you need them they can be there.  
What would you do if you had no kids? you’d manage your older age then surely? My aunt and uncle had no kids but they had amazing friends and extended family who were there for them. Most of us have that. OTOH I have a friend who has nothing, absolutely nobody, so she put herself into an aged care facility in her 60s where she has her own unit, looks after herself, travels (a lot!!!) and has a wide social network of friends inside and outside the facility. It’s perfectly do-able. We are your age and one son is 24 hours away in U.K. and the other is 4 hours away with his own stuff going on. I don’t expect either of them to drop everything and run to us and they are certainly very independent, neither of them need us peering over their shoulders. We are comfortable enough that we can visit them or even buy a tank of petrol or an air fare for them to come and see us if need be. 
At our age I think we might plan for our independent age needs but we have as much right as they to be where we want to be, do what we want to do without hanging around their necks!  I guess I had good modelling - my parents did just that, we made the decision to go and support them for the last years of their lives but I had no compunction about leaving dad, on his own, in a great care home that he enjoyed. He felt more independent in the home than he did with us there caring for him 24/7 and I respected his need to regain that control of his life.  I think at our age we all fear the unknown of our last years but in the meantime we need to kick up our heels and do what is right for US! 
Look after yourself! 

My experience of grandparents is that they want to spend as much time as possible with their grandchildren. It is probably the greatest pleasure in their life in their late years.

Not so easy if you live a long way away.

[Nanna]

Oh thats so sad.  Me in reverse! I feel like jumping off the planet. I used to love my life (except winters-they are diabolical)   

We had a business in the UK with our sons - till they went to Australia and it was great being with them and watch them blossom.  Now they have a business there they would like us to share again but the thought of arriving and struggling to find anything we could afford or even want to live in puts me us both in panic mode.  Staying here enduring the winters puts me in panic mode and to have to visit and break my heart each time I have to leave isn't something I am good at. In fact I'm dreadful. Never am good at saying farewell to them- even worse now I'm cracking up.  We don't want to move up or down coast- too touristy and apartments and high rise and what's the point of moving there and not be near enough for school drop offs and pick up.  We have a stunning location here - it just doesn't have my family to share it with. 

Thank you all so much for your messages - I am just a hopeless mess.  

[Quoll]

8 hours ago, Parley said:

My experience of grandparents is that they want to spend as much time as possible with their grandchildren. It is probably the greatest pleasure in their life in their late years.

Not so easy if you live a long way away.

No, it's not, but it's actually not that bad if you have short intense periods of contact - you have as much to do with them then as if you were relatively close. Unless, of course you are utterly enmeshed with them and give your lives over to caring for them full time. That becomes a chore pretty quickly (several friends are now muttering about being taken for granted and it happened to us for the first few years of our granddaughter 's life).

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Parley said:

My experience of grandparents is that they want to spend as much time as possible with their grandchildren. It is probably the greatest pleasure in their life in their late years.

That is true, but the problem is that only works in the early years.  Once they get a bit older, they'd rather be with their friends.  When grandparents come for an annual visit, the parents make an effort to spend as much time as possible with them, and force the kids to be there too.  

I have friends who moved heaven and earth to get to Australia.  They find they see far less of their grandkids now than they did when they visited once a year, because the kids are too old to want school pickups now and they're always out doing sport or with their friends on the weekends.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Marisawright

[ramot]

On 30/05/2022 at 02:40, Nanna said:

I think it's more to do with not having them in my life rather than the other way round.  The prospect of the survivor of us without ANY family is stressful enough.  Its so sad but my husband says as we are so much better off here financially it coild be too great a risk - one he isn't certain we should take - and we certainly couldn't waste money on rent.  It's not a nice feeling to be so unhappy you are not sure which way to go at the crossroads.   Hence I am 'stuck'. 

I thank you all for trying to help.  X

Nanna you and another poster mentioned you received a tax free pension? I thought all income, after the tax free allowance was taxed?      

I tend not to give advice on PIO, as everyone’s position is different, but we live in Australia are retired, and all our income comes from UK. We have lived here for 19 years, and only got PR recently, so are now paying tax here, rather than our income previously all taxed in UK. My husband was convinced we would be worse off paying more tax here, but there is almost no difference in the amount we now pay.

We have 2 of our children living in Australia, ( they followed us, we came first with no family here) but our only grandchildren are in UK with our oldest son, pre covid we visited for about 3 months every year, so had a reasonable amount of regular close contact. For the last few years we have relied on face time for contact, and even though both the boys are teenagers, they chat away with us, we can have a good laugh with them, perhaps we  are lucky we have a good relationship with them, it’s not ideal, but it works. We wouldn’t move back as our lives are here, but might think differently if we didn’t have other children here. Family is a strong pull as you get older, but I do know that even if we had been living near them, we would not have given up our lives to become grandparent child minders. Sounds hard, some might say selfish, but we bought up our three, managed with no parental help, and retirement is our time. I’ve seen many friends become resentful, after the initial good intentions to mind their grandchildren on a regular basis, the men perhaps more than the women, 

As in other scenarios, only you can decide what ultimately suits you best, I don’t know where you live in UK, or where you will live in Australia? We love living here, had to make the effort to meet people and join things when we arrived, and it worked as we have a good social life here, so as someone who has done it, it can work out well, there’s so much here on the Sunshine Coast that’s free or very cheap to do and join into for retirees.

Perhaps take a step back,  think everything through slowly, make a long list of pros and cons, where do YOU  really want to be? Is life really going to be so expensive here in comparison to UK?

Take care of yourself and I wish you well with whatever you decide. x M 

[Skani]

10 hours ago, Parley said:

My experience of grandparents is that they want to spend as much time as possible with their grandchildren. It is probably the greatest pleasure in their life in their late years.

Not if your life is also fulfilled with other interests, hobbies and friendships.  It can also be very exhausting:  nothing reminds you of  your ageing body more than a 3 year old making a determined break for it at the most awkward of moments.  

[Chortlepuss]

On 29/05/2022 at 16:02, Nanna said:

Not goid at all.  We need to be near the sobs to help run their business and with the grandchildren . We now think we will be taxed on our UK pension which we have tax free here but at 32.5% in Australia?  It just doesn't get better  a quote fir pvt health was £5000 2 years ago.  We calculate with the high house prices a high rates and vist if living about $80k with pvt medical.  So all in all  . So $600k and $20 now In  pensions it would last 19 years if no medical issues - unlikely at our  age and the stress we are under. We have the RRV, I think I mentioned which one earlier.  I can't sleep for fear of what to do.  

Agree with Marisa - don’t bother with private medical insurance. I have given up my hospital cover (we are 59,65). It was costing an arm & a leg for cover and when I did need it the ‘out of pocket’ expenses were really high. I looked at renewing after I got work again but so much that I might need (e.g cardio) was excluded from basic cover and gold cover is a fortune if you’re older. At $300 a month or so, it’s easier to set aside that amount and use it for healthcare if you need it. A friend is going through breast cancer in the public system - her treatment from diagnosis onwards was swift & efficient. Yes, her waiting times were a little longer but it was more or less free and the surgeon was the same whether private or public. If you are high priority (cancer, stroke etc..) you will be treated swiftly. You can see a bulk billed GP so pay nothing for your Drs visits - bulk bill GPS are easily found here. But even a charging GP is about $35 after your Medicare rebate - not much to pay to see a GP same day! 

[Tulip1]

8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

and force the kids to be there too

There’s much truth in that.  I used to work with a girl who would moan about her teenage kids not staying in to spend the day with the grandparents when they visited.  To solve the problem she actually paid her kids a tenner to stay in.  We all thought it was funny although terrible.  I adored my grandparents and feel quite bad now when I look back and remember my desperate attempts to get out of visiting them when I was old enough to be left at home and my attempts to escape and go out with friends when they visited.  Young kids can’t get enough of grandparents but it changes as they get older.  They no doubt still adore them but when you’re 15 hanging out all day with the olds loses appeal.  It’s natural albeit a shame. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Tulip1

[Blue Flu]

19 hours ago, Parley said:

My experience of grandparents is that they want to spend as much time as possible with their grandchildren. It is probably the greatest pleasure in their life in their late years.

Not so easy if you live a long way away.

Gosh one would something more fulfilling on offer than purely grand kids. No personal experience, but partner was God Mother to two boys, which cost a pretty penny over time. Very little contact now both are early twenties and doing very well. I say, live your own life inclusive of others where practical, but don't make your life around others. To my thinking bound for disappointment.  

[newjez]

3 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

There’s much truth in that.  I used to work with a girl who would moan about her teenage kids not staying in to spend the day with the grandparents when they visited.  To solve the problem she actually paid her kids a tenner to stay in.  We all thought it was funny although terrible.  I adored my grandparents and feel quite bad now when I look back and remember my desperate attempts to get out of visiting them when I was old enough to be left at home and my attempts to escape and go out with friends when they visited.  Young kids can’t get enough of grandparents but it changes as they get older.  They no doubt still adore them but when you’re 15 hanging out all day with the olds loses appeal.  It’s natural albeit a shame. 

I never had grand parents as they were in the UK when I was growing up in Australia. I do feel like I missed out.

[Parley]

1 hour ago, Blue Flu said:

Gosh one would something more fulfilling on offer than purely grand kids. No personal experience, but partner was God Mother to two boys, which cost a pretty penny over time. Very little contact now both are early twenties and doing very well. I say, live your own life inclusive of others where practical, but don't make your life around others. To my thinking bound for disappointment.  

If you don't have kids or grand kids then you will have no idea.

[Quoll]

50 minutes ago, Parley said:

If you don't have kids or grand kids then you will have no idea.

I've got both but I absolutely agree with BF on this one. 

[Parley]

27 minutes ago, Quoll said:

I've got both but I absolutely agree with BF on this one. 

It is sad if you don't have that sort of relationship with your kids and grandkids. I hope I do when the time comes.

[Quoll]

51 minutes ago, Parley said:

It is sad if you don't have that sort of relationship with your kids and grandkids. I hope I do when the time comes.

I have a great relationship with all of them, made even better by the fact that we arent enmeshed. We would all do anything for the other if needed but not all the time. One granddaughter and I have just had a lovely chat online - she is struggling with her crochet.  I talk to my grandson (about football) every week) - you dont need to be living in each other's pockets to have a good relationship.

[Jon the Hat]

Family is important, but only you can decide if it is enough to have to start everything else from scratch.  For some that is exciting, for others a nightmare.

[Blue Flu]

16 hours ago, Parley said:

If you don't have kids or grand kids then you will have no idea.

Quite possibly more of an idea. I can look on with a clear non partisan objectivity. But I do know, grand parents whose grand kids are what only one component of their lives, not the main, just as I've met those that talk incessantly about their grand kids, but don't tend to spend much time with such tedious people.  

[Blue Flu]

14 hours ago, Parley said:

It is sad if you don't have that sort of relationship with your kids and grandkids. I hope I do when the time comes.

Nothing sad about having a life. Time will tell I expect if any future grand kids meet the expectations you appear to desire from it. 

[Marisawright]

18 hours ago, Parley said:

It is sad if you don't have that sort of relationship with your kids and grandkids. I hope I do when the time comes.

Of course any parent wants a close relationshiip with their kids and grandkids.  But it's all a matter of balance. 

I know some women my age (late 60s/70s) who live empty lives because all they can think about is spending time with the kids and grandkids.  They live for the few hours they spend with them, and the rest of their life is grey and boring.  I say a few hours, because that's usually what it amounts to, even if you're living next door. 

Think back, Parley. When you were young, were you falling over yourself to see the parents/grandparents every weekend, or did work, school, sport and friends and social life take over so you found yourself making excuses, or if you did go it was a duty visit?  How many hours a week did you see your folks?  

Like I said, a matter of balance.  You've got to think about your life when the kids aren't there, because that's going to be the majority of your old age, unless you're very unusual.