Still here and still feel the pull

[Toots]

37 minutes ago, Bulya said:

Another medical practise has recently opened here, also walking distance and 200m from another, and they’re advertising for patients.  Sounds like a Tassie problem. 

You are fortunate to have a medical practice so close to home.  

I don't know if it is a Tasmanian problem.  Could be just this town.  I believe a new clinic is opening very soon but I am more than happy with our GP.

[Bulya]

2 hours ago, Toots said:

You are fortunate to have a medical practice so close to home.  

I don't know if it is a Tasmanian problem.  Could be just this town.  I believe a new clinic is opening very soon but I am more than happy with our GP.

Two within short walking distance, more with a longer walk.  

[Loopylu]

5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, you've been personally given that feedback, but talk to most Aussies and they'll say that life has gone downhill in the last 20 or 30 years too.  It's a global phenomenon.  If both have gone downhill, which has gone downhill worse?  It's a question of comparison and as @tea4too points out, your family and friends are imagining you living in a Home & Away paradise.  Which maybe you are, because you're a single person renting in a nice part of Sydney, which you could never afford if you were part of a family and needed to buy a home, so I'm not sure you have a realistic view of life in Australia for the average family either.

My Australian husband returned to Australia in 2008 after 15 years in the UK and he found the culture had changed immensely and in his opinion not for the better. He felt Australia had adopted the worst excesses and selfishness of the USA. No one was laid back anymore and everyone whinged about first world problems.  The cost of living and housing had also shot up making it far more expensive than the average cost of living outside of London and the South East. Fast forward 14 years and he is starting to think the UK would be a better place to grow old after the way his mother was treated by aged care and Medicare in comparison to what my parents have experienced in the UK. 

[beketamun]

9 hours ago, Toots said:

There are 5 GP surgeries in Devonport and a person I met the other day (new to town) who tried in vain to make an appointment with a GP in all 5 was informed they are not taking any new patients.  She managed to find a GP in Ulverston which is about a 15 minute drive from here.  There are quite a few incomers to this town and it would appear the GP surgeries have their hands full with current patients.  

They will expand, has Devonport had an influx of people since the pandemic?  On the South Coast NSW they're seriously looking at re-shaping services (schools, hospitals, GP's, Dental, service industries) due to the influx of people.

[Toots]

8 hours ago, Loopylu said:

My Australian husband returned to Australia in 2008 after 15 years in the UK and he found the culture had changed immensely and in his opinion not for the better. He felt Australia had adopted the worst excesses and selfishness of the USA. No one was laid back anymore and everyone whinged about first world problems.  The cost of living and housing had also shot up making it far more expensive than the average cost of living outside of London and the South East. Fast forward 14 years and he is starting to think the UK would be a better place to grow old after the way his mother was treated by aged care and Medicare in comparison to what my parents have experienced in the UK. 

That must make you feel a lot more happy knowing your husband would prefer to be in the UK in old age.  You can make plans for the future where you will be content.

I am hoping we don't need to go into a nursing home here in our dotage though the one near us is very nice as far as nursing homes go.  We live down the boring, quiet area of town where there are lot of long term residents over retirement age.  They are all fit and active but a few of them have "helpers" who do cleaning and take them to medical appointments etc.  I can't compare aged care here with the UK as nobody in my family every required it.  I did once visit a friend's Granny in Scotland who was in a care home and it was very depressing - probably because she was very depressed.  

I am more positive about Australia and don't mix with whining, selfish people.  I find the people I know here in Tassie are very down to earth and just quietly enjoy life.  I'm sure there are shallow, money obsessed people here too.  I just don't know any of them.

The cost of housing has shot up here and it is making it hard for young locals to buy a house of their own.  The same thing is happening in my home town in Scotland.

I think the difference in our opinions is that you hate living in Australia and I'm happy here  ......................  well in Tassie anyway.   

 

[Toots]

5 hours ago, beketamun said:

They will expand, has Devonport had an influx of people since the pandemic?  On the South Coast NSW they're seriously looking at re-shaping services (schools, hospitals, GP's, Dental, service industries) due to the influx of people.

There has been an influx of people over the past few years.  The price of houses has shot up.  Four couples we have been friends with for over 30 years have all moved to Tassie from NSW.  Three of them on the NW coast and one on the south west coast.  All very happy here.  The secondary school has just had a large extension built on the school grounds but many of the locals send there children to the local private school.  

[beketamun]

42 minutes ago, Toots said:

There has been an influx of people over the past few years.  The price of houses has shot up.  Four couples we have been friends with for over 30 years have all moved to Tassie from NSW.  Three of them on the NW coast and one on the south west coast.  All very happy here.  The secondary school has just had a large extension built on the school grounds but many of the locals send there children to the local private school.  

it's something you don't see in the UK, everything is finished...no new towns since when, nowhere to put new streets in existing towns?  The expansion of Australia is relentless and they're pretty good at making new societies from scratch right down to base infrastructure.

[bug family]

On 11/04/2022 at 08:32, Lucia said:

Thank you for your replies.

I must say, my husband can't be entirely to blame in all of this. He's not a monster. It was me that decided we should stay after all and buy the house so we could truly say we'd tried. I think if we left after renting, I wouldn't have felt we'd truly lived our lives in the way we wanted. I just don't think I was in the best frame of mind to make the decisions.

I've been counting down the days to my next psych session and did suggest that my husband and I should go together at some point. She agreed but said I need to sort my own stuff out first.

I definitely feel like it's a now or never with the kids being 8 and 10, but I'm really trying to weigh it all up. I read all the positive stories of being in Australia as well as the 'going home' ones. For me, I'm getting to the point of thinking 'enough is enough' - I've done my time here, I've tried my very best to settle, I've had a great materialistic life, I've made some wonderful memories, but I'll always wonder 'what if?' if I don't go now. I've joined a couple of facebook groups and have seen that there are a few others moving back with an 8 and 10 year old so I'd be interested to hear their stories. My kids only know Australia really.

What doesn't help my husband is all the doom and gloom stories of VAT increases, energy bills, crap wages, expensive houses, struggling NHS. I just wish the UK could sort its shit out and it'd be a much easier decision.

I fear that whatever decision is made, it'll split us up at some point. I'd like to think we're strong enough for that not to happen, but resent is an awful thing. I think I'd begin to resent my husband and his family for encouraging me to stay here, or resent my kids purely because they're Australian and have no real tie to the UK. If I upheave the family purely for my own feelings, I'm sure they'd resent me.

If I had my time again, I wouldn't have moved to Aus in the first place.

I'm properly messed up.  

Hi Lucia,

I totally understand where you are at, I posted the question on here ' how long before your realised that Australia was or was not the place you wanted to spend the rest of your days' in the UK CHAT section, have a look if you get a chance there are many who share similar experiences to you.

My own experience is very similar to yours, my wife, myself and our then 3 year old (Daniel) moved over some 11 years ago to Perth from the U.K. this was then closely followed by her parents and brother,

During the 11 years here we have had another child Emily who is now 9 years old and is a real daddys girl  

We had initially set a time limit of ten years maximum stay before we even left the UK and then 'WE' are going back home'....fast forward 11 years  and the 'WE' unfortunately has turned to 'I' am going back home'.....

I will be leaving in another month or so just waiting to get confirmed dates, I retrained as a paramedic out here and am going back to work for the NHS, .....leaving my children here will be so very,...very hard....the most difficult thing i have ever done....

My wife and I are no longer together, although we live together and are good friends we are now legally separated......

My point of telling you this is that we came here as a strong happily married couple just like you, but homesickness and longing to go home takes a toll.....it has cost me my marriage and a lot more besides, ...the move back is very bitter sweet, I get to go back to where I belong ...but without the people I love (my children)

However I intend to work hard get a mortgage and set up a  house again (hopefully) and give them the opportunity of another home in another part of the world where they will be able to live, should they choose to do so when they are older.

It hit home for me the other day when I had to fill out a form for my new employer that asked questions about who I am traveling with and bringing over to the UK.....Alongside each question, partner,children, animals etc I wrote the word 'none' ....

For me Australia has given me a new chance at life , a new career, I have met some amazing people and for that I am very grateful, but it was never going to be a full stop for me, just a comma, an adventure, to see and live another life, which it has been ...

I have said many times that life is truly so very short (I see this everyday)....I hope you find happiness and can resolve this, take care 

p.s. feel free to message me anytime if you need a chat or want someone to vent to   

[Cup Final 1973]

7 hours ago, beketamun said:

it's something you don't see in the UK, everything is finished...no new towns since when, nowhere to put new streets in existing towns?  The expansion of Australia is relentless and they're pretty good at making new societies from scratch right down to base infrastructure.

That’s a rather sweeping generalisation about the UK.

[Loopylu]

8 hours ago, Toots said:

That must make you feel a lot more happy knowing your husband would prefer to be in the UK in old age.  You can make plans for the future where you will be content.

I am hoping we don't need to go into a nursing home here in our dotage though the one near us is very nice as far as nursing homes go.  We live down the boring, quiet area of town where there are lot of long term residents over retirement age.  They are all fit and active but a few of them have "helpers" who do cleaning and take them to medical appointments etc.  I can't compare aged care here with the UK as nobody in my family every required it.  I did once visit a friend's Granny in Scotland who was in a care home and it was very depressing - probably because she was very depressed.  

I am more positive about Australia and don't mix with whining, selfish people.  I find the people I know here in Tassie are very down to earth and just quietly enjoy life.  I'm sure there are shallow, money obsessed people here too.  I just don't know any of them.

The cost of housing has shot up here and it is making it hard for young locals to buy a house of their own.  The same thing is happening in my home town in Scotland.

I think the difference in our opinions is that you hate living in Australia and I'm happy here  ......................  well in Tassie anyway.   

 

Unfortunately due to my husband being on dialysis I don’t think he will ever live back in the UK again. He may not be a candidate for a transplant as his kidney failure is caused by an autoimmune condition and you can only dialyse for so long. The average life expectancy on dialysis is 5 years but obviously some people go much longer. I will look into being a living donor as a new kidney even if attacked by his body may give him more time.

[Loopylu]

23 minutes ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

That’s a rather sweeping generalisation about the UK.

I tend to agree. I have noticed lots of new housing developments in the villages of Worcestershire and also in Carmarthenshire. New industrial estates and shopping centres too. 

[beketamun]

55 minutes ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

That’s a rather sweeping generalisation about the UK.

 

32 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

I tend to agree. I have noticed lots of new housing developments in the villages of Worcestershire and also in Carmarthenshire. New industrial estates and shopping centres too. 

Why would you disagree, it's not even controversial?  There hasn't been a new town in the UK for 50 years.....what was the last new town created in the UK?  Redditch, MK? 

It's ok sticking a housing estate on the green belt, or a flood plain....but any existing town with streets 100 years old has nowhere to expand to, that is the exact problem with the economy.  Nobody wants to fund the infrastructure support costs which would need to be drastic, and builders are only looking at their profits from house sales.  

[Blue Flu]

8 hours ago, beketamun said:

it's something you don't see in the UK, everything is finished...no new towns since when, nowhere to put new streets in existing towns?  The expansion of Australia is relentless and they're pretty good at making new societies from scratch right down to base infrastructure.

Do you mean the never ending expansion of suburbia? Relentless maybe. Beneficial to all but those making money out of such expansion, dubious at best. Too often limited infrastructure and potential hot beds to future social problems. 

[Blue Flu]

17 hours ago, Loopylu said:

My Australian husband returned to Australia in 2008 after 15 years in the UK and he found the culture had changed immensely and in his opinion not for the better. He felt Australia had adopted the worst excesses and selfishness of the USA. No one was laid back anymore and everyone whinged about first world problems.  The cost of living and housing had also shot up making it far more expensive than the average cost of living outside of London and the South East. Fast forward 14 years and he is starting to think the UK would be a better place to grow old after the way his mother was treated by aged care and Medicare in comparison to what my parents have experienced in the UK. 

Australia has always been more materialistic than UK , but UK headed in that direction rather enthusiastically during the eighties. Your husband is quite correct. Australia became exceedingly greedy and the laid back style dissipated to a more competitive and less content country.  Really became noticeable early 21 st Century.  I'm pretty much certain for many the UK is better to age in. Not the best but better in many measurements than Australia. Australia has always been somewhat ageist , I suppose the Grey Nomads make that an exception , but it also gets around to whom you prefer to associate with in the age. 

[Skani]

On 22/04/2022 at 12:47, Lucia said:

but I want them to have the opportunity to go away for uni - halls of residence etc. I want them to go up and down the country for music festivals 

There's nothing to stop them going to a uni on the east coast of Australia where they can live in college and have much greater access to festivals etc.  

[Skani]

On 22/04/2022 at 20:31, Bulya said:

Another medical practise has recently opened here, also walking distance and 200m from another, and they’re advertising for patients.  Sounds like a Tassie problem. 

Yes, there is a dire shortage of GP's in Tassie  but it's a problem experienced in regional areas generally throughout the country - and also in the fast growing areas on the fringes of the big cities (eg the western suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne).   

[Toots]

29 minutes ago, Skani said:

There's nothing to stop them going to a uni on the east coast of Australia where they can live in college and have much greater access to festivals etc.  

It's also common for the young ones in Tasmania to go to universities on the east coast of the mainland.  

[newjez]

5 hours ago, Loopylu said:

I tend to agree. I have noticed lots of new housing developments in the villages of Worcestershire and also in Carmarthenshire. New industrial estates and shopping centres too. 

It's never ending building in both countries. Drives me insane.

[newjez]

On 22/04/2022 at 03:47, Lucia said:

Thank you for your responses. I'm so sorry that others feel trapped too - it's truly awful.

I've now had four sessions with the psychologist and she is great. She can't give me the answers but she's telling me I need to take note of my body and my heart - I'm all head really as I keep saying - house, money, mortgage, superannuation etc. She's told me that I need to soothe rather than bury the feelings, but I'm unsure of what I've been doing these years. How do I know I was burying rather than soothing before? I've thrown myself into everything whether it's making new friends, work, exercise, camping holidays etc, but the thought of my kids having such a limited existence in Perth makes me feel sick. Perhaps it's rose tinted glasses, but I want them to have the opportunity to go away for uni - halls of residence etc. I want them to go up and down the country for music festivals and nip over to Europe for a weekend etc. What the hell can they do here? Marry their childhood sweetheart who they met in Year 11? Go to uni and live in the family home? Go to Rottnest or Busselton for the weekend...then where? I'm just bloody bored of it all. I find Perth so limiting

When I was young I had a lot of friends who used to travel from Perth to Cairns to live. Mainly because it's about as far away from Perth as you can be and still be in Australia. Alot of Perth kids do leave to see the world. I did, and I didn't come back. Well not to stay. But I might. The thing is, Perth can be a prison if you treat it as such. The isolation engulfs you. For some people, they can only be happy there if they know they can leave. Maybe it's being trapped that's the problem. But your kids aren't trapped. They can and will do what they want.

I didn't understand the kids away from home university thing. My wife didn't understand me going to a uni close to home. Having the experience to grow and so on. We have one kid at our local uni and one kid up north. True, the one up north has grown alot from the experience. But the one at home is much happier. But I do get what you are saying. Mine did Europe summer before last and loved it. Talking about doing it again this summer, as everything is really cheap close to the war zone.

A lot of it will be a mental battle inside you. It's claustrophobia basically. But on a larger scale. If you can get past that, there are benefits from isolation. I'm not 100% happy at being a target should a thermonuclear war start anytime soon. I'm guessing no one has bothered to put Perth on their target list.

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by newjez

[Cup Final 1973]

6 hours ago, beketamun said:

 

Why would you disagree, it's not even controversial?  There hasn't been a new town in the UK for 50 years.....what was the last new town created in the UK?  Redditch, MK? 

It's ok sticking a housing estate on the green belt, or a flood plain....but any existing town with streets 100 years old has nowhere to expand to, that is the exact problem with the economy.  Nobody wants to fund the infrastructure support costs which would need to be drastic, and builders are only looking at their profits from house sales.  

I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.  It’s true there haven’t been new towns created in the UK but my existing town, founded in 71AD, is having new houses built at the rate of almost 1000 a year.  

[Loopylu]

6 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Australia has always been more materialistic than UK , but UK headed in that direction rather enthusiastically during the eighties. Your husband is quite correct. Australia became exceedingly greedy and the laid back style dissipated to a more competitive and less content country.  Really became noticeable early 21 st Century.  I'm pretty much certain for many the UK is better to age in. Not the best but better in many measurements than Australia. Australia has always been somewhat ageist , I suppose the Grey Nomads make that an exception , but it also gets around to whom you prefer to associate with in the age. 

I agree wholeheartedly about the 80s. Not sure how this issue is going to be fixed in either country as people continue to vote for minimal tax cuts over hospitals, schools etc for the greater good. All we can do is try to be kind and generous to others and make the most of life I suppose.

[Chortlepuss]

On 22/04/2022 at 12:47, Lucia said:

Thank you for your responses. I'm so sorry that others feel trapped too - it's truly awful.

I've now had four sessions with the psychologist and she is great. She can't give me the answers but she's telling me I need to take note of my body and my heart - I'm all head really as I keep saying - house, money, mortgage, superannuation etc. She's told me that I need to soothe rather than bury the feelings, but I'm unsure of what I've been doing these years. How do I know I was burying rather than soothing before? I've thrown myself into everything whether it's making new friends, work, exercise, camping holidays etc, but the thought of my kids having such a limited existence in Perth makes me feel sick. Perhaps it's rose tinted glasses, but I want them to have the opportunity to go away for uni - halls of residence etc. I want them to go up and down the country for music festivals and nip over to Europe for a weekend etc. What the hell can they do here? Marry their childhood sweetheart who they met in Year 11? Go to uni and live in the family home? Go to Rottnest or Busselton for the weekend...then where? I'm just bloody bored of it all. I find Perth so limiting

I’m glad it’s working with the psychologist. I must like you be brave and do the same. I never thought my worries worthy of discussion before and am cynical re: the worth counselling can provide - or maybe a bit frightened of letting cat out of the bag? I do empathise with the worry re: your kids but think you could see it another way. I grew up in Brighton, UK a brilliantly diverse and interesting place and so grateful to have been there at that time to enjoy it all. But my daughter as a nurse could never afford to live in Brighton - she has a lovely house here. My son suffers from MH issues and has fantastic support here. My friend’s son in the SE UK has similar issues and no support. I would have loved them to have the social and economic opportunities I had but they don’t really exist now at home. Brighton is a rich persons playground now and Australia is going that way with the cost of housing even in Brisbane. I’m actually glad my daughter stayed at home and has no uni debt. I think it’s wicked how young people in the UK are forced to take in punitive debt to study. In Brighton they build luxury accommodation for students with car parking and en-suites! They are just cash cows. I long for home almost every day but am aware of it being a longing for a long lost place - still beautiful and I’d still go home if I could, but I can see that young people can thrive here, despite the mind numbing blandness that people like you and I abhor.

[Marisawright]

38 minutes ago, Chortlepuss said:

I’m glad it’s working with the psychologist. I must like you be brave and do the same. I never thought my worries worthy of discussion before and am cynical re: the worth counselling can provide - or maybe a bit frightened of letting cat out of the bag? 

It's sad that you think it requires bravery to see a psychologist.   I do think you're right to be cynical about the worth of counselling.  If you weren't cynical, you'd probably be expecting too much!   However the thing is, even if you get a useless counsellor, it's someone you can offload to.   I'm sure you've stopped offloading to friends or family long ago, because you worry you can't keep burdening them with your woes.  Well, your counsellor is like these forums but better, because they're real - you can offload and keep offloading again and again.  I would urge you to do it.

[Blue Flu]

9 hours ago, Loopylu said:

I agree wholeheartedly about the 80s. Not sure how this issue is going to be fixed in either country as people continue to vote for minimal tax cuts over hospitals, schools etc for the greater good. All we can do is try to be kind and generous to others and make the most of life I suppose.

We can only act on an individual basis on trying to do what is correct. Depends a lot on own ethics and world view. Self interest has become somewhat ingrained over the decades. The system is increasingly geared towards that. We in the end get the society we deserve. 

[Blue Flu]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It's sad that you think it requires bravery to see a psychologist.   I do think you're right to be cynical about the worth of counselling.  If you weren't cynical, you'd probably be expecting too much!   However the thing is, even if you get a useless counsellor, it's someone you can offload to.   I'm sure you've stopped offloading to friends or family long ago, because you worry you can't keep burdening them with your woes.  Well, your counsellor is like these forums but better, because they're real - you can offload and keep offloading again and again.  I would urge you to do it.

All very well off loading, it does suit a purpose, but someone I know as an example that springs to mind, has been seeing the same counsellor for years. The same issues remains and cynical me can see it as beneficial to that particular worker, but of little use to the client. Surely the aim should be to move the client on  and out of the books rather than a regular chit chat  which seems to be the case.