Choosing Arrival Location with Family

[Marisawright]

42 minutes ago, Constance said:

Just to reiterate, really interested to hear from people who have done this and especially with young children. 

.... The balance of family life, job prospect and coastal is one I want to try to strike. 

Unfortunately the experiences of someone who arrived even 5 or 6 years ago is not directly relevant to your situation, given the absolute explosion in Sydney house prices since then. 

For instance, 6 years ago if someone asked me where to  live in Sydney close to the coast on a reasonable budget, I'd have suggested Oatley, where used to live - only a few stops on the train to Cronulla and a short drive to the nearest beach.  However a 2 bedroom attached townhouse (maisonette) in that area will now cost you around $1.5 million. 

Anywhere else in Australia, except Melbourne, that same townhouse will be half the price. 

If you want to stick to capital cities, consider Brisbane. It’s only an hour’s flight from Sydney and many, many families drive from Sydney to the Gold Coast of Sunshine Coast for holidays- once you’re used to Australian distances, it’s very doable.

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Marisawright

[can1983]

I would have to say that Sydney is only beachy if you can afford $2 million plus

Our experience moving to Australia with one child aged 2 and one on the way in late 2017 was Sydney wasn;t an option due to the cost of living and the relatively poor quality of life for families (in our opinion from living there for 3 years about 10 years ago) unless you are highly wealthy. Don't get me wrong for those who are so wealthy they walk dogs for a living just ot keep busy Sydney would be superb.

We chose Hobart which has worked out great as we are 500m from the beach and 5 minutes form work by car. Enough space in the house and land to give each of our now 3 children their own bedroom and park two cars and a few toys to enjoy the coastal life with.

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, can1983 said:

I would have to say that Sydney is only beachy if you can afford $2 million plus

Our experience moving to Australia with one child aged 2 and one on the way in late 2017 was Sydney wasn;t an option due to the cost of living and the relatively poor quality of life for families (in our opinion from living there for 3 years about 10 years ago) unless you are highly wealthy. Don't get me wrong for those who are so wealthy they walk dogs for a living just ot keep busy Sydney would be superb.

We chose Hobart which has worked out great as we are 500m from the beach and 5 minutes form work by car. Enough space in the house and land to give each of our now 3 children their own bedroom and park two cars and a few toys to enjoy the coastal life with.

 

That's really interesting thank you. 

[Ausvisitor]

1 hour ago, Constance said:

That's really interesting thank you. 

However commuting between Hobart and Sydney each day for work might prove problematic!

Therein lies the problem, the "big money" jobs (predominantly) exist in Sydney and Melbourne and as such they are money-pits for buying/renting.

You can get cheaper housing elsewhere, but you will likely be paid less, and so the percentage of take home you spend on housing may stay the same (although the actual dollar number is less)

I think we have put to bed the idea of beach living for a while, we have found from the CBD suburbs in Sydney you can get to Manly or Bondi in 30 minutes by car (easily) so why live right there and compromise on the house (but that's just my view, many will have a different one). That said, something remotely decent in Surry Hills is $1.75m, so it isn't cheap.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Ausvisitor

[Marisawright]

7 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

 

You can get cheaper housing elsewhere, but you will likely be paid less, and so the percentage of take home you spend on housing may stay the same (although the actual dollar number is less)

Definitely not true. 

The arithmetic is simple. Houses anywhere else in Australia (except Melbourne) are approximately 50% less thanSydney. 

Salaries are lower outside Sydney for some occupations but they are certainly  nowhere near 50% lower. 

The problem is that some corporate jobs simply don’t exist outside Sydney or Melbourne, so if that’s your field, you have no alternative. For other occupations, there is plenty work elsewhere 

The OP doesn’t say what they do for a living 

[can1983]

On 25/02/2022 at 07:55, Marisawright said:

Definitely not true. 

The arithmetic is simple. Houses anywhere else in Australia (except Melbourne) are approximately 50% less thanSydney. 

Salaries are lower outside Sydney for some occupations but they are certainly  nowhere near 50% lower. 

The problem is that some corporate jobs simply don’t exist outside Sydney or Melbourne, so if that’s your field, you have no alternative. For other occupations, there is plenty work elsewhere 

The OP doesn’t say what they do for a living 

Agreed both my wife and I earn 30-40% more now in Hobart than we did in Sydney 10 years ago. Adjusting for inflation its still an increase (or at least the same).

As you say its all about whether the OP can get a job in Hobart or other regional centres in their profession

I actually moved into the public service loosely in my field because, to me, there was no use in having a successful career if it only paid for a shoebox to live in and you sat in traffic jams all day.

Now id say I have a well paid job but no career anymore. I do however somewhere nice to call home for our family.....

[Bulya]

On 25/02/2022 at 07:55, Marisawright said:

Definitely not true. 

The arithmetic is simple. Houses anywhere else in Australia (except Melbourne) are approximately 50% less thanSydney. 

Salaries are lower outside Sydney for some occupations but they are certainly  nowhere near 50% lower. 

The problem is that some corporate jobs simply don’t exist outside Sydney or Melbourne, so if that’s your field, you have no alternative. For other occupations, there is plenty work elsewhere 

The OP doesn’t say what they do for a living 

Canberra houses aren’t 50% less than Sydney, getting very close and more expensive than Melbourne.  

[Guest]

Not sure whether helpful or not, occupation wise I am a Pre-construction / Development Manager for a large building company (Tier 1/2 equivalent for Oz). 

My husband is an IT Infrastructure Manager. 

Many builders or property developers seem to have their regional offices in main cities, as is common in the UK too.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Constance said:

Not sure whether helpful or not, occupation wise I am a Pre-construction / Development Manager for a large building company (Tier 1/2 equivalent for Oz). 

My husband is an IT Infrastructure Manager. 

Many builders or property developers seem to have their regional offices in main cities, as is common in the UK too.

Yes, that does make a difference, because you will have to follow the work.   I would start researching the companies that are likely to employ you - given that Australia's population is a mere one-third of Britain's, it's a correspondingly smaller market so there are only a few big players.  Also, some IT infrastructure has moved offshore (the last two companies I worked for had their main data centre in Asia, not in Australia at all).  

Also check Seek and LinkedIn for jobs in your fields, so you can see which companies are advertising.  You could also reach out to agencies that specialise in your fields - a phone call will likely work better than email.  

Most of the jobs will likely be in Sydney and Melbourne, but I wouldn't discount Brisbane, particularly for construction.  As @can1983 alludes to, one of the dilemmas of migrating is that these days  - due to the soaring house prices in Sydney and to a lesser extent, Melbourne - you have to choose between having a high-flying career and having the quality of life you dreamed of in Australia.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Marisawright

[Ausvisitor]

51 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, that does make a difference, because you will have to follow the work.   I would start researching the companies that are likely to employ you - given that Australia's population is a mere one-third of Britain's, it's a correspondingly smaller market so there are only a few big players.  Also, some IT infrastructure has moved offshore (the last two companies I worked for had their main data centre in Asia, not in Australia at all).  

Also check Seek and LinkedIn for jobs in your fields, so you can see which companies are advertising.  You could also reach out to agencies that specialise in your fields - a phone call will likely work better than email.  

Most of the jobs will likely be in Sydney and Melbourne, but I wouldn't discount Brisbane, particularly for construction.  As @can1983 alludes to, one of the dilemmas of migrating is that these days  - due to the soaring house prices in Sydney and to a lesser extent, Melbourne - you have to choose between having a high-flying career and having the quality of life you dreamed of in Australia.

Or you can do a bit of both. Accept that housing in Syd/Mel is not going to be ideal but buy the best you can anyway.

Work hard for 5 years and make a history for yourself in country.

Look for new jobs nearer beaches (or smaller cities) in 5 years time when you have solid Aussie work experience, money and a property that has gone up in value hugely that you can use to help move to your preferred location.

Really it's no different to the UK. (For the majority of people in "high fly careers").

Start in London, buy a small place, make a name for yourself, move outwards to the shires taking the huge equity build up with you, repeat until you find forever home.

 

The problem is we've all been seduced by Home & Away, Neighbours and Wanted Down Under, that you can get perfection on day one for peanuts - it rarely happens

[Ausvisitor]

I am in a short term up in North Sydney, not well know as a beach location but can be at Manly/Bondi/Coogee in under an hour on public transport and under 25 minutes in a car.

Nowhere (except the seaside towns themselves) offers that in the UK.

[Marisawright]

38 minutes ago, Ausvisitor said:

I am in a short term up in North Sydney, not well know as a beach location but can be at Manly/Bondi/Coogee in under an hour on public transport and under 25 minutes in a car.

Nowhere (except the seaside towns themselves) offers that in the UK.

North Sydney, great place to live, but not affordable for the average person to buy.

[Parley]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

North Sydney, great place to live, but not affordable for the average person to buy.

Out of interest, what is the maximum price of a house you think the average person is able to afford ?

[Marisawright]

8 minutes ago, Parley said:

Out of interest, what is the maximum price of a house you think the average person is able to afford ?

Depends what you mean by average. The median house price for North Sydney is $3 million.

[Parley]

1 minute ago, Marisawright said:

Depends what you mean by average. The median house price for North Sydney is $3 million.

So you can't answer the question I actually asked?

[DIG85]

 

1 hour ago, Parley said:

Out of interest, what is the maximum price of a house you think the average person is able to afford ?

The average house price in Australia is just under $1m. That would be a good starting point as an answer to your question. 
But of course only two thirds of Australians are homeowners, so the maximum price of a house that the "average person" can afford is going to be even less than that.

[Ausvisitor]

1 hour ago, DIG85 said:

 

The average house price in Australia is just under $1m. That would be a good starting point as an answer to your question. 
But of course only two thirds of Australians are homeowners, so the maximum price of a house that the "average person" can afford is going to be even less than that.

Being totally pedantic, that is a good place to start but it won't be correct.

As you say a lot of people don't own, but also a lot who do own, own a house that is worth a lot less than they could have afforded.

 

For instance we are looking at $1.2m houses, but we could go up to $2m+ but we don't feel comfortable at that level, the bank is happy we could afford it but we would prefer not to. 

So the question of what someone could afford is a very difficult one to answer

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ausvisitor

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, DIG85 said:

 

The average house price in Australia is just under $1m. That would be a good starting point as an answer to your question. 
 

But surely that's a kind of meaningless figure, since the actual range is so vast, anything from $50,000 in a rural town to $25 million in Sydney? 

[Ausvisitor]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

But surely that's a kind of meaningless figure, since the actual range is so vast, anything from $50,000 in a rural town to $25 million in Sydney? 

It is a meaningless figure granted, but to take a swinging generalisation at the "typical pom immigrant" it's a 30-35 year old plumber/electrician/nurse generally from the North of the UK heading over to do a similar role with kids in tow.

Probably had a house in the UK, maybe £100k in equity in that, a $1m house is not going to be achievable in those circumstances.

 

Ultimately average prices are only relevant of you are the average person

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ausvisitor

[Parley]

Marisa was unable to state a figure, despite making the point herself.

I would agree $1M to $1.2M is what the average person can afford today. Maybe more actually (could be $1.5M or more) as Ausvisitor points out, the banks are willing to lend a lot.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Parley

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Ausvisitor said:

It is a meaningless figure granted, but to take a swinging generalisation at the "typical pom immigrant" it's a 30-35 year old plumber/electrician/nurse generally from the North of the UK heading over to do a similar role with kids in tow.

Probably had a house in the UK, maybe £100k in equity in that, a $1m house is not going to be achievable in those circumstances.

 

Ultimately average prices are only relevant of you are the average person

Obviously it depends where you move from and to where.

I’ve given this comparison before,

Uk son good job, masters degree, works for large telecom company headquarters in London, works mostly from home at present.

House in Bristol suburbs, 3 bed  2bath, 1930’s semi, small rooms, loft extension for 4th bedroom, garage too small for car, small garden worth 750,000 UK pounds

Australian son, good job, masters degree, works for established company in Brisbane.

House in north Brisbane suburbs, large airy 4  bed house 2 bath, 2 car garage, good block over 1,000 with large covered outdoor area, worth $750,000. Equates to approximately 407,000 Uk pounds.

Earn a similar annual wage. 

 

.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by ramot

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, Parley said:

So you can't answer the question I actually asked?

I said I couldn't.  The point is that I felt fairly safe in saying that the average person couldn't afford North Sydney, where the average price is $3 million.

[Guest]

The housing point is obviously an interesting one. I would like to stay within driving distance to our family who are west of Sydney, being somewhere with 2 young kids, the support network to be near if possible would be comforting for sure. 

Salary wise we will both earn around double our UK salaries. The prices of suburbs that seem reasonable to us are really in London based prices. If we were to move to London from Glasgow area we would earn 10-15% more but house prices are more than double, so it seems fair. 

Think we are on an outskirts of Sydney, near coast, pathway for now which feels right. 

As an aside though, many of the comments on this forum are helpful but it's devalued by the arguments which start over differing points of view. It could be a great forum for people like me, but it's at risk of not being used. I have noticed it on almost every post I've read and it's hard to cut through to what you need to know. 

I really hope this feedback is taken positively as you could have a great community and place of knowledge here. 

Thanks for your input. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ramot said:

Obviously it depends where you move from and to where.

I’ve given this comparison before,

Uk son good job, masters degree, works for large telecom company headquarters in London, works mostly from home at present.

House in Bristol suburbs, 3 bed  2bath, 1930’s semi, small rooms, loft extension for 4th bedroom, garage too small for car, small garden worth 750,000 UK pounds

Australian son, good job, masters degree, works for established company in Brisbane.

House in north Brisbane suburbs, large airy 4  bed house 2 bath, 2 car garage, good block over 1,000 with large covered outdoor area, worth $750,000. Equates to approximately 407,000 Uk pounds.

Earn a similar annual wage. 

 

.

 

 

Brisbane also appeals as the family feel seems great. I have a background in construction for sports events so could be tempted there by The Olympics for the right role. 

At the moment it feels as though that maybe a 'next step' if we felt comfortable a little down the line. 

That salary and housing comparison was helpful as its actually better than I had thought. 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Constance said:

Brisbane also appeals as the family feel seems great. I have a background in construction for sports events so could be tempted there by The Olympics for the right role. 

At the moment it feels as though that maybe a 'next step' if we felt comfortable a little down the line. 

That salary and housing comparison was helpful as its actually better than I had thought. 

That's a housing comparison for Brisbane vs Bristol, which is reasonable. Bear in mind that Sydney prices are double that, and that includes the outer suburbs.  

https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/interactives/costofliving/compare/brisbane-vs-sydney/