Is it still worth it

[armada]

2 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

But Australians (or some) claim that Australia is an egalitarian country with UK having the class system. (some Poms as well) No some countries have a Bill of Rights ensuring the elites do not run rough shot over the rest. This is not a case the world over. Giving a damn, some folk maybe. In my location though more about enriching selves and self preservation. Although I admit appearances may be suggestive of otherwise. 

Not sure the Bill of Rights is providing that much protection in the US...

[Blue Flu]

39 minutes ago, DIG85 said:

Completely agree. The idea that there's no class system in Australia is an utter myth. Any country which doesn't levy IHT is never going to be a classless society. 

 

There is a considerable class system in Australia. Easily spotted in how it is acted out. Not solely based on school tie, but wealth, family connections , suburb and so on.  

[Blue Flu]

Just now, armada said:

Not sure the Bill of Rights is providing that much protection in the US...

It provides clarity if nothing else as any American will tell you in what the individual can do without censure by authorities.  I

[Blue Flu]

55 minutes ago, DIG85 said:

I'm not sure it does. Comparing Aus to UK is really eye-opening. Almost everything you buy in Aus as a consumer, from groceries to hardware to electronic devices, is considerably more expensive than in the UK.

Compare for example B&Q with Bunnings. Almost everything at B&Q is ¼ the price of what we pay in Australia, from tools to paint, damn near everything. You see the same thing comparing Tesco to Coles.

UK real estate being expensive sort of makes sense since the cost of living is very low in UK compared to here (average family spends just £60 pounds per week on groceries compared to Aus, where the average family is nearing $300/wk in proceries).

The only thing which is obviously cheaper in Aus is petrol, rego and insurance, but even that is offset by the fact that cars themselves are more expensive here.

And not forgetting the greater distance travelled by auto in this country. Or probably the lack to a greater extent the availability of public transport that, at least in the bigger cities, allow something of a choice. 

[armada]

3 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

It provides clarity if nothing else as any American will tell you in what the individual can do without censure by authorities.  I

I have relatives in several states across America, I see how they live their lives, I wouldn't swap with them for anything. And they are supposedly the "fortunate" ones with well-paying jobs that provide health insurance.

[Amber Snowball]

1 hour ago, DIG85 said:

I'm not sure it does. Comparing Aus to UK is really eye-opening. Almost everything you buy in Aus as a consumer, from groceries to hardware to electronic devices, is considerably more expensive than in the UK.

Compare for example B&Q with Bunnings. Almost everything at B&Q is ¼ the price of what we pay in Australia, from tools to paint, damn near everything. You see the same thing comparing Tesco to Coles.

UK real estate being expensive sort of makes sense since the cost of living is very low in UK compared to here (average family spends just £60 pounds per week on groceries compared to Aus, where the average family is nearing $300/wk in proceries).

The only thing which is obviously cheaper in Aus is petrol, rego and insurance, but even that is offset by the fact that cars themselves are more expensive here.

The only point in your statement I would contest is car rego. My rego in the uk is £170, which is quite an expensive band here. In Australia it was nearly $800 from memory, that’s in Victoria, don’t know if other states vary. 

[calNgary]

39 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

And not forgetting the greater distance travelled by auto in this country. Or probably the lack to a greater extent the availability of public transport that, at least in the bigger cities, allow something of a choice. 

Who wants public transport when we have all these roads to travel and places to explore without being stuck in a traffic jam?  Half of the best places we have stumbled across when exploring at weekends since arriving here have not been on public transport routes. We drove Adelaide to Brisbane a couple of years after we arrived and used all the in land roads, it was amazing to see, even more so for the kids when they saw Emu's running alongside us. I love the road trips here.

You mention the distance people travel and you sure do put in the miles over here , hubby worked 9KM from home in the UK and because he had to cross town it took pretty much the same time it takes him here doing 57KM !!! 

  Cal x

[DIG85]

23 minutes ago, Amber Snowball said:

The only point in your statement I would contest is car rego. My rego in the uk is £170, which is quite an expensive band here. In Australia it was nearly $800 from memory, that’s in Victoria, don’t know if other states vary. 

But Australian rego includes insurance. In the UK, car insurance is separate and very expensive - more than the equivalent of $800 usually. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by DIG85

[Marisawright]

2 minutes ago, DIG85 said:

But Australian rego includes insurance. In the UK, car insurance is very expensive - more than the equivalent of $800 usually. 

Few Australians would rely on the very basic CTP insurance included in the rego. Most people would take out proper insurance as well

[calNgary]

1 minute ago, DIG85 said:

But Australian rego includes insurance. In the UK, car insurance is very expensive - more than the equivalent of $800 usually. 

Yes but that is only a very basic 3rd party insurance. I pay another $800 for fully comp insurance on my car. so Ins and Rego all up is around $1700 a year x

  Cal x

[Blue Flu]

11 minutes ago, calNgary said:

Who wants public transport when we have all these roads to travel and places to explore without being stuck in a traffic jam?  Half of the best places we have stumbled across when exploring at weekends since arriving here have not been on public transport routes. We drove Adelaide to Brisbane a couple of years after we arrived and used all the in land roads, it was amazing to see, even more so for the kids when they saw Emu's running alongside us. I love the road trips here.

You mention the distance people travel and you sure do put in the miles over here , hubby worked 9KM from home in the UK and because he had to cross town it took pretty much the same time it takes him here doing 57KM !!! 

  Cal x

For starters roads are becoming ever more congested. Most don't use public transport. It's not about the open road, but cities. We could do with the reintroduction of trams. A very pleasant feature about Melbourne. 

[Toots]

1 hour ago, Blue Flu said:

Do a little own research and you'll likely stumble on results not to your liking. Ok. Check out 20 May 2016 Boomerang Poms BBC. Nearly half of migration visa's return within five years to UK. 

Even in ten pound Pom times there was a considerable number saving up to repay their assisted passage then returning. I knew a bloke from Stoke on Trent, that was the last remaining of his group of sixteen . Meaning all others returned to UK. He didn't like Australia bit never managed the move back. It's always been high. Never claimed higher today, as simply don't know. 

But if you want to check out the highest nationality to return home, look no further than the Dutch. Something like half went back during the fifties and sixties. Further, I arrived latter part of nineties and few non Australian born we knew from those times, from a collection on nationalities remain in Perth today some twenty three plus years later......

There are also many returnees from NZ and Canada.  I have relatives (cousins) who have returned to the UK after spending many a year in those countries.

[Blue Flu]

1 hour ago, armada said:

I have relatives in several states across America, I see how they live their lives, I wouldn't swap with them for anything. And they are supposedly the "fortunate" ones with well-paying jobs that provide health insurance.

I wouldn't live in America either. But I know many Europeans that wouldn't live in Australia either. Yes. Health costs are a major consideration with regards to America. But general decay equally concerning.

[Blue Flu]

2 minutes ago, Toots said:

There are also many returnees from NZ and Canada.  I have relatives (cousins) who have returned to the UK after spending many a year in those countries.

All settler countries will experience a degree of return. 

[Bulya]

9 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

For starters roads are becoming ever more congested. Most don't use public transport. It's not about the open road, but cities. We could do with the reintroduction of trams. A very pleasant feature about Melbourne. 

Trams in Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney.  

[calNgary]

9 minutes ago, Bulya said:

Trams in Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney.  

Dont forget the Gold Coast

 Cal x

[Toots]

3 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

I wouldn't live in America either. But I know many Europeans that wouldn't live in Australia either. Yes. Health costs are a major consideration with regards to America. But general decay equally concerning.

i got my green card and decided to give America a go.  I thoroughly enjoyed my job and managed to do a lot of travel and let me tell you there are some spectacular places in the US but I never really felt at home there and when I got a job offer in Switzerland I gave up my job in California.  Lots of people thought I was crazy to leave the US (when have I ever listened to other people) but I've never regretted it.  Loved my job in Switzerland but was happy to leave after a year. I think if I hadn't met my Aussie husband in London I would still be moving from country to country like a gypsy. .  

[Bulya]

15 minutes ago, calNgary said:

Dont forget the Gold Coast

 Cal x

Apologies…

[beketamun]

3 hours ago, DIG85 said:

I'm not sure it does. Comparing Aus to UK is really eye-opening. Almost everything you buy in Aus as a consumer, from groceries to hardware to electronic devices, is considerably more expensive than in the UK.

Compare for example B&Q with Bunnings. Almost everything at B&Q is ¼ the price of what we pay in Australia, from tools to paint, damn near everything. You see the same thing comparing Tesco to Coles.

UK real estate being expensive sort of makes sense since the cost of living is very low in UK compared to here (average family spends just £60 pounds per week on groceries compared to Aus, where the average family is nearing $300/wk in proceries).

The only thing which is obviously cheaper in Aus is petrol, rego and insurance, but even that is offset by the fact that cars themselves are more expensive here.

B&Q is absolute shite though.  My dad came here and spent half his holiday in Bunnings amazed at the stuff you can longer get in the UK, it's more comparable to Home Depot than B&Q, far more trades use it as a staple and better quality. Australia is a DIY country.

[Loopylu]

9 hours ago, armada said:

Hi Ruth, just a bit of positive encouragement - myself, my husband and my pre-school child moved here in September 2021 and are loving it. Despite it being a long-held dream of mine, we still had reservations up until we got out of quarantine! But the alternative was to raise a family in a society that continues to vote in right-wing disaster capitalists who are hell-bent on dismantling anything that does not enrich them. Australia may have it's own issues in this regard but it doesn't suffer from a class system like in the UK and is all the better for it. 

I also work in healthcare and the pay and conditions at my particular hospital you could only dream of back home in the UK. It's not perfect, but relative to the NHS astonishingly good. At least I feel like I am being appropriately compensated for my time and expertise and treated like a human being rather than some kind of automaton. My husband is not medical but he got a job pretty easily before we left and got a 20% pay rise for less work. I have seen my pay nearly double. We are also on a 482 as this move has been a dream of mine for a long time and the only way we could move forward with it during covid was to get onshore. So here we are! None of our costs were covered so if yours are, what are you waiting for!? Certain things are more expensive when you don't have PR, like childcare (that you won't have to consider), and not being able to raise bank loans or enter into novated leases so having to rent a banger for a grand a month! Rent is comparable or a bit more expensive but the standard of build here is better. And you can definitely build for cheaper than in the UK. Depends where you want to live. Overall we are more comfortable than in the UK. And for us, with a young child, the amenities just on your doorstep are world class and would cancel out any drop in salary. We rarely sit around at home flicking through netflix, even with covid there is so much more to do than in the UK. We kept our property on in the UK 'just in case', and we have family in the UK that we miss but we have no intention of going back if we can help it! I think having some friends and family here already has helped us to settle but people are out and about, things are happening, there is scope to meet people. I just think Aussies have had such an incredible lifestyle here for so long that their "terrible" is pretty good! It's all relative

You’ve been here all of 5 minutes. Let’s see how you feel after several years of living isolated from family. My children have not seen their grandparents for 3 years now due to harsh travel restrictions. 

[Loopylu]

2 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

There is a considerable class system in Australia. Easily spotted in how it is acted out. Not solely based on school tie, but wealth, family connections , suburb and so on.  

The first question I was asked when I started work 13 years ago in Brisbane was what school I would send the kids to.The look of horror when I said the local State school…

Only OECD country that props up elitist private education and healthcare and investment property ownership with taxpayer money.

Class system, what class system.

Also only OECD country not to have a bill of rights or human rights act in domestic legislation. Explains how the government gets away with the treatment of refugees, charging for education of children of temporary visa holders and restricting the travel of its citizens. All breaches of human rights conventions ratified by Australia but unenforceable in Australian courts due to lack of said domestic legislation. 

[Rallyman]

A reminder what this thread is about , well off topic now 

[Loopylu]

1 minute ago, Rallyman said:

A reminder what this thread is about , well off topic now 

A lack of human rights protections and a class system that is worse than the Uk would be relevant to any “intelligent” assessment of whether to migrate to Australia. Quality of life is not just about weather, size of house and a swimming pool if you have any social conscience.

[Rallyman]

8 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

A lack of human rights protections and a class system that is worse than the Uk would be relevant to any “intelligent” assessment of whether to migrate to Australia. Quality of life is not just about weather, size of house and a swimming pool if you have any social conscience.

Change the record you were on about this the last time you were posting, there are far worse countries in the world than Australia to live . 
No restrictions now stoping you from leaving. 

 

 

[JetBlast]

4 hours ago, DIG85 said:

I'm not sure it does. Comparing Aus to UK is really eye-opening. Almost everything you buy in Aus as a consumer, from groceries to hardware to electronic devices, is considerably more expensive than in the UK.

I work in IT and buys millions of dollars of Electronic items every year. I generally find that Australia isn’t more expensive. (I know you said “as a consumer” but it’s still a good indicator).

For example, the base model iPad Air is $899 in Australia. The same device is $1,095 (£579) in the UK.

Apple Australia Link

https://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-air

Apple UK Link

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-air

Edited January 9, 2022 by JetBlast