Family in both countries

[Sw4S]

Hi everyone, bit of an imposter here (I’m an Aussie, but I have an English partner) - wanting to see if any couples where one partner is English and one is Australian have navigated similar issues/decisions. 
A little over 4 years I moved to London from Sydney, met my now long term partner and generally had a good life and felt quite settled. Just before the pandemic hit, we were living in my partner’s home in Hertfordshire and whilst it had a lot of pros in terms of the areas surrounding and had easy connections to London where we worked, I felt quite isolated and the specific area we were in wasn’t entirely safe. We decided to buy together elsewhere in England and so he put his property up for sale.
About a week later, lockdown hit and there was no interest in his property as it was a one bedroom without a garden. 
So we were then stuck in that place throughout lockdown and were isolated/far from family and friends, and unable to proceed with buying somewhere new because his house wasn’t selling. Simultaneously, I was in a job that was becoming increasingly more toxic, but that I couldn’t change as my visa in the UK was tied to it. I also received all sorts of good and bad news from back home (unexpected deaths, pregnancies, weddings) but because of the pandemic/Aus flight caps, I couldn’t go home for any of it.

I was pretty down and so towards the end of 2020, we discussed the idea of moving to Sydney (my home city) and we both convinced ourselves it was a great idea and that at least that way we’ll have each lived in each other’s countries before making a permanent decision about where to live.

If I’m being honest, I thought Sydney would be the winner, but having now been back here for 6 months, I think we’ve made the wrong decision.

I prefer the UK for so many reasons, and my partner - despite trying his best to stay upbeat and make Sydney work for me - feels the same way.

I’d move back in a heartbeat but my family and friends who I’m very close to are all here so I feel a lot of guilt. I also then see forums like this where a lot of people move back to the UK to be back closer with family, particularly for support with kids.

Sorry for the long winded background, but I suppose I’m interested to see how couples have made a decision where you have sets of families in both countries and where you’ve ultimately chosen the country that has less of a support network, but has other pros - eg you feel more “alive” or more “you” there. Or just any other perspectives where a mixed Aus/English couple have opted for the UK having tried out Aus.

Thanks

[Marisawright]

You are very, very far from alone.   It's a very common problem for Aussie/British couples.    Unfortunately each case is unique, so only you can decide what the solution is for you.   

First of all, let's put one thing to bed.   I think there's a perception that life is somehow "better" in Australia, so why would anyone choose to live in the UK instead?  It's rubbish. Both countries have good points and bad points, and there are so many subtle differences in the culture.   It all comes down to where YOU feel more comfortable, because that's the one thing that will endure.  

With that in mind, I'd say if you both feel more at home in the UK, then that's where you should be.  Look into a spouse visa (you don't have to be married).  

My only concern is that you said you weren't happy in Hertfordshire.  If you can't go back to London, where else did you have in mind?  

I ask because one thing I didn't think about, when we decided to retire to the UK, was how small all the cities are.  It didn't occur to me that all the cities I love (London, Sydney, Melbourne, Vienna, Paris) are well over a million people.  I now realize that I find smaller cities, no matter which country, are too quiet and lacking in buzz.  I notice a massive difference between the culture of London and the culture of everywhere else in the UK. 

I guess what I'm saying is, be careful you're not just comparing London and Sydney, unless you're planning to return to London.  Think about where you're likely to end up and what the culture there is likely to be like. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Marisawright

[Sw4S]

3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

You are very, very far from alone.   It's a very common problem for Aussie/British couples.    Unfortunately each case is unique, so only you can decide what the solution is for you.   

First of all, let's put one thing to bed.   I think there's a perception that life is somehow "better" in Australia, so why would anyone choose to live in the UK instead?  It's rubbish. Both countries have good points and bad points, and there are so many subtle differences in the culture.   It all comes down to where YOU feel more comfortable, because that's the one thing that will endure.  

With that in mind, I'd say if you both feel more at home in the UK, then that's where you should be.  Look into a spouse visa (you don't have to be married).  

My only concern is that you said you weren't happy in Hertfordshire.  If you can't go back to London, where else did you have in mind?  

I ask because one thing I didn't think about, when we decided to retire to the UK, was how small all the cities are.  It didn't occur to me that all the cities I love (London, Sydney, Melbourne, Vienna, Paris) are well over a million people.  I now realize that I find smaller cities, no matter which country, are too quiet and lacking in buzz.  I notice a massive difference between the culture of London and the culture of everywhere else in the UK. 

I guess what I'm saying is, be careful you're not just comparing London and Sydney, unless you're planning to return to London.  Think about where you're likely to end up and what the culture there is likely to be like. 

Thank you so much for this, so true that each of the places are just different - it isn’t that one is better than the other.

That’s a really good point re cities - I think part of what I found difficult was going from Sydney to London to a small part of Hertfordshire - the difference between the 3 was really extreme.

I should’ve clarified though, I actually really like Hertfordshire more generally and would happily live in some of the areas within it (eg Tring, St Albans) - it was just the specific place we lived in which I found difficult (am avoiding naming it as I don’t want to offend anyone) - basically my partner picked it in his mid-20s when he was single and just wanted somewhere halfway between his work in London and his parents place in Bucks. It was convenient for amenities and transport, but otherwise was industrial, a little unsafe and didn’t have too much by way of culture/history. We also had no family/friends there.

Ideal would be a villagey part of London, but if we’re priced out we’d be equally happy living in any of Herts, Bucks or Surrey (though appreciate they’re all quite pricey too…still slightly better value for money than Syd!). I like a bit of buzz, but as long as I can commute to a city without too much pain then I don’t need to be in a city itself. To make up for the lack of buzz though, it would need to have at least a decent high street and some good walks.

[Marisawright]

The big unknown is what will happen if you decide to have children.

You mentioned couples moving back to the UK to be close to family.   It's got nothing to do with having a support network, actually.   That may be used as a justification, but it's not the real reason.   After all, many parents can and do manage without a support network.  

The real reason is that motherhood is a life-changing event. I don't have children myself but I've noticed the change of attitude that occurs. For instance, one of my good friends, a high-powered, extremely independent businesswoman, abandoned her burgeoning career in the UK after she had a child and returned to a lesser post in Australia.  Nothing to do with needing support, it was entirely driven by a visceral desire to give her child the same childhood she had, and to have the same relationship with grandparents.  In fact, I see that "I want my child to grow up like I did" reason offered frequently on these forums as a reason to return to the mother's home country.  So that's something to think about too.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Marisawright

[can1983]

I'm the British half of an "Anglo-Aussie" marriage. We had the same decision, luckily in our case I prefer living in Australia to anything in the UK. Quite honestly don't see the appeal of the place anymore just overcrowded and too hard to live the sort of outdoor life I love. So I would say there are better places than others but I can see that the drawbacks of Sydney (I don't live there now but have in the past) over some parts of the UK

So it really was an easy decision my wife and I both agree that our children are better off here, they have regular contact with one set of grandparents and less so with the other of course.

If there is family in each I would just make the decision for yourselves and try not to factor in family support. Many people say new mums want to be close to their parents for support, that's not for everyone my sister has also chosen Aus over the UK because she believes here is a better lifestyle.

Bad places in Hertfordshire, sounds like Stevenage! If it is I wouldn't worry about offending anyone Lewis Hamilton has already done that!

[Sw4S]

37 minutes ago, can1983 said:

I'm the British half of an "Anglo-Aussie" marriage. We had the same decision, luckily in our case I prefer living in Australia to anything in the UK. Quite honestly don't see the appeal of the place anymore just overcrowded and too hard to live the sort of outdoor life I love. So I would say there are better places than others but I can see that the drawbacks of Sydney (I don't live there now but have in the past) over some parts of the UK

So it really was an easy decision my wife and I both agree that our children are better off here, they have regular contact with one set of grandparents and less so with the other of course.

If there is family in each I would just make the decision for yourselves and try not to factor in family support. Many people say new mums want to be close to their parents for support, that's not for everyone my sister has also chosen Aus over the UK because she believes here is a better lifestyle.

Bad places in Hertfordshire, sounds like Stevenage! If it is I wouldn't worry about offending anyone Lewis Hamilton has already done that!

My partner enjoyed the Lewis Hamilton comment

Thanks for the reply - can I ask how long you gave living in Australia a chance before you began feeling like Aus was the better choice for you and your family? 

You’re on the money re the fear of being away from my parents as a new mum (having children is probably not on the cards for another 2/3 years at least, but I see how much support my parents provide to my sister who has a 2 year old and it’s now got me doubting whether I’d be silly to move away from that! My partner’s parents are lovely but it wouldn’t quite be the same and we wouldn’t be able to live near enough to them anyway due to our careers)…I’m also very conscious that the impact of pandemic on being able to travel between the two countries is probably having an effect on how we feel about the situation - it feels very definitive at the moment, ie wherever you pick is wherever you’re set, but of course the other country and it’s ties to us will still be there whatever we pick

[can1983]

1 hour ago, Sw4S said:

My partner enjoyed the Lewis Hamilton comment

Thanks for the reply - can I ask how long you gave living in Australia a chance before you began feeling like Aus was the better choice for you and your family? 

You’re on the money re the fear of being away from my parents as a new mum (having children is probably not on the cards for another 2/3 years at least, but I see how much support my parents provide to my sister who has a 2 year old and it’s now got me doubting whether I’d be silly to move away from that! My partner’s parents are lovely but it wouldn’t quite be the same and we wouldn’t be able to live near enough to them anyway due to our careers)…I’m also very conscious that the impact of pandemic on being able to travel between the two countries is probably having an effect on how we feel about the situation - it feels very definitive at the moment, ie wherever you pick is wherever you’re set, but of course the other country and it’s ties to us will still be there whatever we pick

realistically it was as soon as we had our first child and realised that we were living in a very small house which was never going to support a family and we both spent too long commuting and not spending time with our baby. Where we live now i have a five minute commute and have a proper family home and we only need one income.

In reality the pandemic has made travel impossible but once you have child(ren) travel is financially difficult in any case. We have 3 children so we are looking at $10,000 for flights and that's not an every year trip....!

[Marisawright]

@Sw4S, the crucially important thing is to make sure you understand how your partner feels. 

It's actually quite unusual to have a situation where both partners have an open mind about which country they'd prefer.  More often, you'll find that one partner is really thinking, "I love my partner and I'm willing to live in his/her country for a while, if that's what will make him/her happy".  

The problem is, "for a while" often turns into "forever", especially once kids come along.   So don't ask yourself, "where would we like to live now?", ask yourself, "where do we want to spend the rest of our lives?".   And make sure you know what your partner's real answer is, and not the answer he thinks you want to hear.  Real homesickness never goes away, it just gets worse as the years go by.  

[Quoll]

Mixed marriage here - I’m the Pom - and when the kids were young our best options happened to be 12 hours drive away from his folk and 24 hours flight from mine. My folk came over for 6 months every year, playing golf and travelling around the country. Personally (and just as well I suppose) I never had a burning need for support from either family but both families got to spend time with the kids every so often during the year. For us that worked well because I think if we had been close to his family I would have been very ticked off that they got everything to do with the kids and mine didn’t (although my parents made more of an effort to spend time with the kids). Having been “used” by one of my daughters in law I grew to resent the assumption that we were there to be used whenever she wanted so there is a fine line between use and abuse of grand parental good will. 

Personally I would be back in U.K. in a heartbeat if I could but the DH gave me 9 great years there (caring for nonagenarian parents) until Covid started and we left while there were still flights out. He’s happier in Aus and I still dislike it but not much I can do other than grin and bear it. We have one son with grandkids in each place so no easy answer there.  My U.K. son did say once, many years ago, well before he was married, even, that he would like any kids of his to have the childhood he had which was nice, I suppose but he won’t leave U.K. now and his son looks to be having a pretty good childhood from what I can see. Kingston on Thames gets the thumbs up from them! Personally I quite like Herts but it’s not Cambridgeshire LOL! 

Bottom line though, if you both prefer U.K., go back! If you have U.K. born grandparents the ancestry visa is the way to go, otherwise it’ll be a spouse visa for a few years. Any kids are going to have a fine upbringing in either place as long as they have two loving and engaged parents. 

[Tulip1]

9 hours ago, can1983 said:

Bad places in Hertfordshire, sounds like Stevenage!

That’s made me laugh because when I read the OP’s comment on where they currently live I instantly thought I bet they’re in Stevenage.  It is unique shall we say!  Many beautiful places in Hertfordshire though and the OP has mentioned two such places.  I was actually in St Albans one day last week, lovely place.  You’d need deep pockets to live there though, very expensive.  

[Sw4S]

It wasn’t Stevenage by the way

[MARYROSE02]

23 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

That’s made me laugh because when I read the OP’s comment on where they currently live I instantly thought I bet they’re in Stevenage.  It is unique shall we say!  Many beautiful places in Hertfordshire though and the OP has mentioned two such places.  I was actually in St Albans one day last week, lovely place.  You’d need deep pockets to live there though, very expensive.  

My Dad's family are from St Albans,  still got an aunt there and cousins and their kids,  all either Spurs or Arsenal but my dad got a job in Southampton so we were brought up there.  Saints are my second team after Spurs. 

[can1983]

On 08/12/2021 at 08:10, Sw4S said:

It wasn’t Stevenage by the way

oh wasn;t it, that slum comment from Lewis was genius

[Chortlepuss]

On 07/12/2021 at 22:56, Tulip1 said:

That’s made me laugh because when I read the OP’s comment on where they currently live I instantly thought I bet they’re in Stevenage.  It is unique shall we say!  Many beautiful places in Hertfordshire though and the OP has mentioned two such places.  I was actually in St Albans one day last week, lovely place.  You’d need deep pockets to live there though, very expensive.  

I was lucky enough to have lived in St Albans a lifetime ago. It was, and remains my favourite place in the UK (despite growing up near Brighton). I try to visit when I can. It has the combination of vibrancy, great shopping, market, beautiful countryside on your doorstep, fabulous pubs whilst being a short journey into London for your city needs. If I could turn back time, I would have bought a house there in the 1990’s. One of the more expensive places to live in the UK now though. 

[Tulip1]

2 hours ago, Chortlepuss said:

I was lucky enough to have lived in St Albans a lifetime ago. It was, and remains my favourite place in the UK (despite growing up near Brighton). I try to visit when I can. It has the combination of vibrancy, great shopping, market, beautiful countryside on your doorstep, fabulous pubs whilst being a short journey into London for your city needs. If I could turn back time, I would have bought a house there in the 1990’s. One of the more expensive places to live in the UK now though. 

It is a really lovely place with great shops, wonderful restaurants/bars, cobble stone streets and a beautiful cathedral.  On a negative note it has its fair share of snobs and one thing I can’t stand is snobbery.  Unfortunately in such affluent areas you get some people like that but thankfully most people don’t lower themselves to such behaviour (it’s such a poor trait) It’s a wonderful place for sure and I love going there. 

[Mdees1]

Another in a similar position.

Moved to UK in 2018 and had our first their ...2.5 years later moved back to Aus for family reasons and my partner (she's the pom) had some work things to clear up. Had our second here too.

She was very miserable here after our second because she couldn't see her family but we felt we would be better of here in Aus where I am close to family.

Just went back to visit UK last month and both of us are torn and unsure if we made the right decision. I really like the UK but we wouldn't live in London (where we lived ) so unsure if it would work. Also feel like we just need some time to establish our family somewhere but I have second thoughts every day.

[Quoll]

21 minutes ago, Mdees1 said:

Another in a similar position.

Moved to UK in 2018 and had our first their ...2.5 years later moved back to Aus for family reasons and my partner (she's the pom) had some work things to clear up. Had our second here too.

She was very miserable here after our second because she couldn't see her family but we felt we would be better of here in Aus where I am close to family.

Just went back to visit UK last month and both of us are torn and unsure if we made the right decision. I really like the UK but we wouldn't live in London (where we lived ) so unsure if it would work. Also feel like we just need some time to establish our family somewhere but I have second thoughts every day.

If she's still miserable she might not get any better. Plenty of places within easy distance of London. Alternatively have you thought of elsewhere in Australia, might be easier for your little family to settle together as a unit without you and your family having it all and she and her family not so  much.  Could you move to UK? Visas etc.

[Mdees1]

Yes could move there easily however she is substantially better off here for work.

We feel COVID has really impacted our one year back so just hoping for clarity on the other side. She did say she feels relief after seeing her family so hopefully I feel calmer too.

Even myself I feel at times I want to be in UK !