Stuck in ‘Paradise’

[proud preston]

I’ve posted many times before and I know it’s almost cathartic for me to post, hence why I’m doing it again. I just need the opportunity to ‘pour my heart out’ AKA - whinge  (again!) 

We arrived here 16 years ago next month. I still recall an English couple we met - maybe in their 60’s - archetypal ping pong poms. At the time we were in our mid 30’s. I remember thinking the wife seemed sad and somewhat bitter. She hated being here and it clearly showed in their relationship. Husband loved Australia yet ....happened to say one day ‘ hmm after a while it gets a bit boring here’ His wife, in a fabulous East London accent, quick as a flash snapped back in a scathing attack -  “ Bored? in f##king paradise?” Highly amusing for us newbies at the time.  However, I find I’ve become that scathing, sarcastic  person who hates the drama, sensationalism of seven TV news and any other TV prog, can’t stand the crooked government, saddened by the over development and clearing of trees, all too often looking for shade and couldn’t stand walking in these months when it’s after 8am,  love the landscape yet hate the landscape.....It’s got that I all too often despise Australia and Australians. An awful way to live and I know it’s me that is the problem as I am wallowing in my own self pity. 

Anyway, ‘stuck in paradise’ - I understand and acknowledge people will say ‘just go’ but how can I ? Our two sons  are 18 and 20 and are out right ‘Australian’ My fears came true. I’d hoped to move back so they could start secondary school in the UK or Ireland- didn’t happen. Maybe start uni back over - didn’t happen. Wasted so much time looking into fees etc etc. and planning (just me planning this!) I’d be abandoning three people I love who are my life. I have started to feel jealous of my siblings who see each other and their grandchildren, who share the same gripes about the UK but appreciate and love the UK - their home, their history and their familiarity.

This sad resolve that I’m here until I shuffle off this mortal coil,  and it makes me bloomin miserable and angry. I didn’t think this would be my life. I never disliked the UK - as many others find -  spouse wanting ‘ a better life’ . I really miss my siblings, I regret not being near my mum in her latter years, I miss the landscape and buildings in England. I’ve even become obsessed with the thought that ‘ things would have been better if we’d migrated to Canada - nearer, northern hemisphere seasons etc’

This is another whinge - I know - and I do appreciate that it can seem self indulgent as there are thousands upon thousands of people experiencing awful lives for a myriad of reasons. No easy answer. I admire those who go back and leave family. I know I couldn’t ever do that. 

Thanks all. Thanks for the opportunity to (almost) anonymously have a heartfelt pouring out of mixed up feelings. 

[Marisawright]

I hope that helped!   Forget Canada though - it would've been just as bad.  Now you've lived in Australia, Canada looks like an acceptable compromise - but if you'd gone straight there, you'd have had nothing to compare it to.  You'd have hated it just as much.  

It's good that you get to vent here sometimes.  However, I think you need more than that.  @Quoll found some good, effective strategies to help cope with the feelings.  Nothing can fix it, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to reduce the impact.  

[proud preston]

Thanks @Marisawright @Quoll I’d be keen to hear your strategies as there really is no going back and I’m fed up being miserable (I’m sure my husband would like me to stop talking about the UK too!) 

[Toots]

Vent away Proud Preston.   One day your sons will be totally independent and you will be able to do what you like.  They are 18 and 20 so not too long to go.  They could end up living anywhere in the world.  My two sons did just that.  One in Ireland and one in New York.  What about you husband? Is he keen to move back to the UK or is he happy enough here?

Just a hint   ................  don't watch those utterly awful TV channels  ..... 7, 9 and 10 are rubbish.  

I only have one sibling and when this Covid business has eased off a bit hopefully we will be meeting up again.  Either she comes to Tassie or I go to her place in Edinburgh and it will also be wonderful to see our sons again.

 

[proud preston]

@Toots- thank you! I’d love my boys to both be in the Northern Hemisphere like yours- I would be back there if they did! Are your boys there long term? Are you tempted to join them or content here? Did your boys grow up here? Yes, it’s my husband that watches the crap channels as I scowl and tut!  He misses Ireland and England but sees himself living here. We often joke that I’ll be in a stone cottage in Lancashire or Yorkshire and he will be here. 

We visited Tasmania and I recall at the time wishing we’d migrated there rather than Brisbane yet I’d probably still feel like this longing. 

[Toots]

6 minutes ago, proud preston said:

@Toots- thank you! I’d love my boys to both be in the Northern Hemisphere like yours- I would be back there if they did! Are your boys there long term? Are you tempted to join them or content here? Did your boys grow up here? Yes, it’s my husband that watches the crap channels as I scowl and tut!  He misses Ireland and England but sees himself living here. We often joke that I’ll be in a stone cottage in Lancashire or Yorkshire and he will be here. 

We visited Tasmania and I recall at the time wishing we’d migrated there rather than Brisbane yet I’d probably still feel like this longing. 

Who knows where our sons will end up.  So far they seem very happy with their lives.  We have met up with them (in New York) and before Covid they managed a holiday here but no, I wouldn't move back.  Very happily retired here in Tassie.  The mainland is too hot for me now.  I enjoy Tassie's gentler climate especially on the north west coast.

 As you say, it wouldn't have mattered where you came to in Australia or even Canada   ...............  you still would have had the longing for 'home'.  We have letters from my Dad's relatives who migrated to Canada and the USA many, many years ago.  Most of them settled very happily but there were a couple who never did.  Those letters are full of yearning to be back in Scotland.  My paternal grandfather's twin sister migrated to Canada and missed home dreadfully.  She returned to Scotland with her husband and one of her daughters when she was 65 and lived happily ever after.  She lived to 99 years old and we used to love her stories of farming life in Saskatchewan.  

[proud preston]

@Toots- thank you - heartening to read and good that you have settled. North west Tasmania sounds nice. The heat in Brisbane is ruthless. 

[Quoll]

Hang in there! When the feelings overwhelm your thinking every bloody day so that you just cannot enjoy what you do have, I'd say you have situational or exogenous depression. First port of call would be your GP - not for medication because what ails you isn't really medicable - for a mental health plan to talk to a psychologist.  Psycologists have different theoretical biases and personally I respond better to CBT because it gives you strategies to move ahead and reframes your thinking (doesn't mean you actually get  to love  "paradise" but it helps with the feelings of helplessness at your situation. Others go for mindfulness and ACT (Acceptance a nd commitment therapy) is quite functional but it doesn't work for me. So the trick  is to find a therapist that you get on with who can help you come to terms with what you've got and move forward.  

If your DH isn't listening to you then perhaps you need to try marriage counselling - is so easy for one partner to discount the depth of feeling of the other and just put it down to the "usual whingeing" and not understand the pain that you experience - very easy to discount a whinge.

Kids - well, I'm the first to say let them live their own lives and once they've hit 21 you're free to do what the hell you like.  So, yes, it is lovely to have the grandkids around but if they're not, they're not and you can make do with what you've got - Facetime, longer visits, whatever.  I've got a son and grandson in UK and the son who was in the granny flat with half time care of his kids is now 3 hours south in Victoria - might just as well be in London really. 

I have no idea how old you are but if you are under 50 I would be pushing like hell for a move on to UK. That's enough time for you to get settled back into a life before you need to think about retiring. Much later than that and it's probably past  the point of no return.  However, never think of it as going back because you'll never get back what you had, you can only move forwards and, effectively, make a new life. 

I could rabbit on for hours but I won't. Always happy to chat if you want to message me though!!! You're a strong woman you can move mountains! 

[Marisawright]

@Quoll, I think Proud Preston's problem is that she's deeply attached to her boys.  Yes they are grown up now, but I suspect even when they're 30, she won't be able to contemplate moving far away from them.   It's a real curse to be a person who's so deeply attached to family, because no matter where you are, you're going to be separated from someone.

I think your advice is excellent.  I know a lot of people are reluctant to "see a psychologist" but it's absolutely essential IMO.   If nothing else, it gives you another person that you can unload on!   

I also think the joint counselling is an EXCELLENT idea. if not marriage counselling, then perhaps she could find her own counsellor, then ask the husband to join in for some sessions.  The fact that PP's husband misses the UK too, and yet can say he "sees his life in Australia", suggest he really doesn't understand the depth of her misery.  He's not being stupid, it's just that it sometimes takes a third person to make them see what's really going on. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Marisawright

[proud preston]

Oh gosh - @Quoll - your response was just lovely - thank you. Your last sentence nearly brought a tear to my eye!  I’ve been a social worker for years and encourage others to engage with psychology or counselling yet have not considered it myself as I often think no matter how much therapy ...I’m still here!!-  but maybe it’s worth trying CBT. Yes @Marisawright - whatever age the boys are I’d feel like I’d be abandoning them. I know that’s silly. I look at my two sisters who live near their daughters and their  young children and hope that I’ll be near my (potential!) grandchildren - yet it’s often different with daughters anyway. 

Maybe I was too harsh about my husband - we’ve a very good relationship and still laugh a lot, which is so important. He sees Australia as offering a lot better opportunities for our boys yet I wonder about this more and more with the current government and their seemingly hell bent way of wrecking the country itself (nature, environment etc) 

I’m 53 so getting on. That tricky age and feeling oh so much older too!  My husband also - whilst he says he will never go back to England - will look at the Irish property sites when he’s had a tough day at work or is sick of the heat but ....like me ...would not want to leave the boys and does truly think Australia is still the ‘land of plenty’ ! 

Thanks for your comments, it’s really helpful to be able to share in this way. 

[Blue Flu]

4 hours ago, proud preston said:

I’ve posted many times before and I know it’s almost cathartic for me to post, hence why I’m doing it again. I just need the opportunity to ‘pour my heart out’ AKA - whinge  (again!) 

We arrived here 16 years ago next month. I still recall an English couple we met - maybe in their 60’s - archetypal ping pong poms. At the time we were in our mid 30’s. I remember thinking the wife seemed sad and somewhat bitter. She hated being here and it clearly showed in their relationship. Husband loved Australia yet ....happened to say one day ‘ hmm after a while it gets a bit boring here’ His wife, in a fabulous East London accent, quick as a flash snapped back in a scathing attack -  “ Bored? in f##king paradise?” Highly amusing for us newbies at the time.  However, I find I’ve become that scathing, sarcastic  person who hates the drama, sensationalism of seven TV news and any other TV prog, can’t stand the crooked government, saddened by the over development and clearing of trees, all too often looking for shade and couldn’t stand walking in these months when it’s after 8am,  love the landscape yet hate the landscape.....It’s got that I all too often despise Australia and Australians. An awful way to live and I know it’s me that is the problem as I am wallowing in my own self pity. 

Anyway, ‘stuck in paradise’ - I understand and acknowledge people will say ‘just go’ but how can I ? Our two sons  are 18 and 20 and are out right ‘Australian’ My fears came true. I’d hoped to move back so they could start secondary school in the UK or Ireland- didn’t happen. Maybe start uni back over - didn’t happen. Wasted so much time looking into fees etc etc. and planning (just me planning this!) I’d be abandoning three people I love who are my life. I have started to feel jealous of my siblings who see each other and their grandchildren, who share the same gripes about the UK but appreciate and love the UK - their home, their history and their familiarity.

This sad resolve that I’m here until I shuffle off this mortal coil,  and it makes me bloomin miserable and angry. I didn’t think this would be my life. I never disliked the UK - as many others find -  spouse wanting ‘ a better life’ . I really miss my siblings, I regret not being near my mum in her latter years, I miss the landscape and buildings in England. I’ve even become obsessed with the thought that ‘ things would have been better if we’d migrated to Canada - nearer, northern hemisphere seasons etc’

This is another whinge - I know - and I do appreciate that it can seem self indulgent as there are thousands upon thousands of people experiencing awful lives for a myriad of reasons. No easy answer. I admire those who go back and leave family. I know I couldn’t ever do that. 

Thanks all. Thanks for the opportunity to (almost) anonymously have a heartfelt pouring out of mixed up feelings. 

You do remind me very much of my mother who loathed Australia seemingly more the longer she was here. That was the sixties and times were different. There was little help available I suspect in those days. More a lick it up Princess ort of attitude and toughen up.  Too often I recall it was the women having difficulty in Australia , while the men liked it. Back in the day it was the over ridding male culture , which involved pretty much every night in the pub after work, (women free) (dinner often ending up in bin) Men appeared to be very uncomfortable around women and an 'apartheid' of gender was fairly obvious. Many a British woman found it hard going, to say the least. How things have changed, as in many cases it appears the woman like it and men wanting out. 

I was around British migrants since I can remember and still still recite some of the stories even though only between say seven and twelve years old. I recall a number had moved over from the newly independent granted colonies like Kenya or Malaya and dreaded a return to frigid  Britain. Many of those though, on reflection felt very entitled due to the nature of the countries they had left. It was most likely always going to be a trail to arrive at and sense of adaptation for these people. But some did very well indeed and went on into high positions. Others it was the English counties (one I recall bought a prime tourist hotel on the sea front at Clacton on Sea. (Essex) But in our case we did finally "return home' as my parents called it ,when I was twelve. It wasn't too be forever, but a few years and I recall the only one thing I missed was the harbour and fishing. Not a single thing else. . Oddly though my mother found the going far tougher than was prepared for. Falling out with relatives, not seen in twenty years, having a cycle accident which resulted in arm in cast for many months, several changes of address over the years, subversion  from her husband not to like England. (within six months he wanted to return to his OZ man's world) Overall the experience I think led to ill health and far earlier than expected demise. 

You are 'lucky' in the sense there are far more options to remove 'close' these days with social media and e mail. The culture has been  'tamed' to an extent. Although Bogan 'culture' is still rather dominant in states like WA. I'd love to move away as I am generally not overly timid in admitting, unbelievable     what we have been experiencing. But best not act on impulse. 

I 'd say follow Quoll's advise and seek out some help. Just ensure if you go down the psychologist route that  you connect with the person and feel comfortable with . I believe narrative psychology  to be important in delivery in a personal fitting manner. CBT is evidence based and works on strategies. Check out where you feel you fit.   My partner is still in that line of work and I meet quite a few  at functions and similar. Afraid on too many occasions afterwards we wonder in amazement just how a particular person could have a degree , usually plus and be qualified to deal with personal trauma.  But I digress. Good luck with the path you decide. 

 

a

Edited November 7, 2021 by Blue Flu

[Blue Flu]

5 minutes ago, proud preston said:

Oh gosh - @Quoll - your response was just lovely - thank you. Your last sentence nearly brought a tear to my eye!  I’ve been a social worker for years and encourage others to engage with psychology or counselling yet have not considered it myself as I often think no matter how much therapy ...I’m still here!!-  but maybe it’s worth trying CBT. Yes @Marisawright - whatever age the boys are I’d feel like I’d be abandoning them. I know that’s silly. I look at my two sisters who live near their daughters and their  young children and hope that I’ll be near my (potential!) grandchildren - yet it’s often different with daughters anyway. 

Maybe I was too harsh about my husband - we’ve a very good relationship and still laugh a lot, which is so important. He sees Australia as offering a lot better opportunities for our boys yet I wonder about this more and more with the current government and their seemingly hell bent way of wrecking the country itself (nature, environment etc) 

I’m 53 so getting on. That tricky age and feeling oh so much older too!  My husband also - whilst he says he will never go back to England - will look at the Irish property sites when he’s had a tough day at work or is sick of the heat but ....like me ...would not want to leave the boys and does truly think Australia is still the ‘land of plenty’ ! 

Thanks for your comments, it’s really helpful to be able to share in this way. 

No idea that you are a social worker (or missed if you wrote it before) So you'll likely be well versed on CBT and alternatives that would suit you.  Usually it's the kids leaving for other pastures and the parents grounded. 

I'd be inclined to consider own preferences first, without necessarily the boys, who are young men now, likely to follow personal pursuits, where ever that may be. It  may be family is your prime consideration and not exterior factors to the extent I first envisaged.  

Still in the age range to make it a success but better sooner than  too much later, I suspect. As for the Irish property market, I'd wait for a replay of recent past. It seems little was learnt.

But  could Ireland be an alternative? If it gets hubby on board. 

[Toots]

53 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

You do remind me very much of my mother who loathed Australia seemingly more the longer she was here. That was the sixties and times were different. There was little help available I suspect in those days. More a lick it up Princess ort of attitude and toughen up.  Too often I recall it was the women having difficulty in Australia , while the men liked it. Back in the day it was the over ridding male culture , which involved pretty much every night in the pub after work, (women free) (dinner often ending up in bin) Men appeared to be very uncomfortable around women and an 'apartheid' of gender was fairly obvious. Many a British woman found it hard going, to say the least. How things have changed, as in many cases it appears the woman like it and men wanting out. 

I was around British migrants since I can remember and still still recite some of the stories even though only between say seven and twelve years old. I recall a number had moved over from the newly independent granted colonies like Kenya or Malaya and dreaded a return to frigid  Britain. Many of those though, on reflection felt very entitled due to the nature of the countries they had left. It was most likely always going to be a trail to arrive at and sense of adaptation for these people. But some did very well indeed and went on into high positions. Others it was the English counties (one I recall bought a prime tourist hotel on the sea front at Clacton on Sea. (Essex) But in our case we did finally "return home' as my parents called it ,when I was twelve. It wasn't too be forever, but a few years and I recall the only one thing I missed was the harbour and fishing. Not a single thing else. . Oddly though my mother found the going far tougher than was prepared for. Falling out with relatives, not seen in twenty years, having a cycle accident which resulted in arm in cast for many months, several changes of address over the years, subversion  from her husband not to like England. (within six months he wanted to return to his OZ man's world) Overall the experience I think led to ill health and far earlier than expected demise. 

You are 'lucky' in the sense there are far more options to remove 'close' these days with social media and e mail. The culture has been  'tamed' to an extent. Although Bogan 'culture' is still rather dominant in states like WA. I'd love to move away as I am generally not overly timid in admitting, unbelievable     what we have been experiencing. But best not act on impulse. 

I 'd say follow Quoll's advise and seek out some help. Just ensure if you go down the psychologist route that  you connect with the person and feel comfortable with . I believe narrative psychology  to be important in delivery in a personal fitting manner. CBT is evidence based and works on strategies. Check out where you feel you fit.   My partner is still in that line of work and I meet quite a few  at functions and similar. Afraid on too many occasions afterwards we wonder in amazement just how a particular person could have a degree , usually plus and be qualified to deal with personal trauma.  But I digress. Good luck with the path you decide. 

 

a

My mother-in-law didn't like Australia at all either.  My husband's parents came to Australia in the very early 1950s.  She hated the heat and missed her large extended family in the UK very much.  Anyway she stuck it out until OH's father died (in his early 40s)   ............   sold their half built house and she, my OH and his little sister sailed back to the UK.  MIL never looked back.  I'll say one thing though -  she never badmouthed Australia.  She just knuckled down to her life in the UK.  She was a social worker in London.

My husband was very happy in the UK for a number of years.  His Mum died in 1979 and at the time his sister was 17 so she came to live with us in Liverpool but she missed her London life.  After a year or so she went back to London where she settled down with work and flat sharing and my husband and I made plans to come out to Australia.  She didn't want to come with us and apart from coming over periodically to see us, she has never been interested in living here. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Toots

[Quoll]

49 minutes ago, proud preston said:

Oh gosh - @Quoll - your response was just lovely - thank you. Your last sentence nearly brought a tear to my eye!  I’ve been a social worker for years and encourage others to engage with psychology or counselling yet have not considered it myself as I often think no matter how much therapy ...I’m still here!!-  but maybe it’s worth trying CBT. Yes @Marisawright - whatever age the boys are I’d feel like I’d be abandoning them. I know that’s silly. I look at my two sisters who live near their daughters and their  young children and hope that I’ll be near my (potential!) grandchildren - yet it’s often different with daughters anyway. 

Maybe I was too harsh about my husband - we’ve a very good relationship and still laugh a lot, which is so important. He sees Australia as offering a lot better opportunities for our boys yet I wonder about this more and more with the current government and their seemingly hell bent way of wrecking the country itself (nature, environment etc) 

I’m 53 so getting on. That tricky age and feeling oh so much older too!  My husband also - whilst he says he will never go back to England - will look at the Irish property sites when he’s had a tough day at work or is sick of the heat but ....like me ...would not want to leave the boys and does truly think Australia is still the ‘land of plenty’ ! 

Thanks for your comments, it’s really helpful to be able to share in this way. 

LOL I know what you mean - I was a psychologist in a previous life and wouldnt venture down that path myself either - fortunately I have some sensible friends who know me and know their stuff so it hasnt been too difficult and I have had a lot of the tips and tricks in my toolbox for a long time.  It might be easier for  you if your lads decided to move away - perhaps you could encourage them;-).  I do know what you mean about living the grandparental life though - I am fortunate in that I am not enmeshed with either lot but we still have a good relationship.  I am banking on the sanity hit trips once things get lightened up here. I see a lot of my friends who are enmeshed and I do sometimes wonder where is "their" life.

My UK son went back for a post uni gap year - in 2002 and has a fabulous career, home of his own, wife and son.  The Aussie one - lives on a block in the bush which he was able to buy thanks to an inheritance otherwise he would still have been in our granny flat, broken relationship and not a great opportunity for making money (doesnt bother him, he's aiming for self sufficiency when society collapses) - so better opportunities ??? hmmm not so much from my lads' point of view.

[proud preston]

@Blue Flu- thank you - interesting read and a little chuckle regarding some of the people you meet and the knowledge they are working with trauma - yes, I have thought that on a few occasions too. @Quoll- your sun in the bush might just have the right idea! Yes, I too am hoping to take long service leave this year and go ‘back home’ . You’re right, I’m hoping the boys will want to travel (as I did at their age) and maybe venture to the Northern Hemisphere. @Toots- a huge undertaking for your MIL but good that she managed to settle; particularly after widowed so young. 

Thanks all. Much appreciated. 

[Parley]

Isn't the obvious solution for you to have semi regular holidays back to the UK, alone if necessary.

This is how many get their UK fix.

[proud preston]

@Parley- and that’s what it may have to be, yet we’ve gone back every 18 months (until Covid) and it doesn’t quash the love of ‘home’ That flight is a terror too; particularly as I age. 

[Marisawright]

7 minutes ago, proud preston said:

@Parley- and that’s what it may have to be, yet we’ve gone back every 18 months (until Covid) and it doesn’t quash the love of ‘home’ That flight is a terror too; particularly as I age. 

Yes, it's no solution really, because you'll get to the point where you're too old, or it gets too expensive on the pension.  

[Blue Flu]

14 hours ago, proud preston said:

@Parley- and that’s what it may have to be, yet we’ve gone back every 18 months (until Covid) and it doesn’t quash the love of ‘home’ That flight is a terror too; particularly as I age. 

Fully agree on the flight. I detest it more by the year. Stopping off en route used to help, I suppose still dopes, but all the rigmarole for a few hours  distraction, often in cities that have been many times only eases the burden so far. Once done it by ship Fremantle to Portsmouth. If having the time a definite preferable thing  to do it.   

The time will come when in all likelihood flying will be too an horrific option as to not undertake it. In my case at least. A rather good reason to attempt to nail down just where in the world would be most suitable to retire while still healthy to be allowed that choice. 

Not that I go to UK that much as went close to ten years flying to Europe not visiting UK. But the ordeal remains the same. We live in a part of the world where long haul travel is a feature of life unless happy with remaining in the Asian region or NZ. 

 

[Marisawright]

9 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Fully agree on the flight. I detest it more by the year. Stopping off en route used to help, I suppose still dopes, but all the rigmarole for a few hours  distraction, often in cities that have been many times only eases the burden so far.

We always do a stopover but we don't even attempt to visit the city.  We book into an airport hotel.  If it's only five or six hours then we book into the cheap version, have a shower and a good sleep.  If it's longer, we book the swankier alternative, swim in the pool, have a treatment at the spa, maybe even use the gym, and of course have a long sleep in a nice comfy bed.  In both cases they're always very efficient, they will make sure you are awakened in good time for your flight. It makes an enormous difference and is worth every penny.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Marisawright

[Quoll]

15 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

We always do a stopover but we don't even attempt to visit the city.  We book into an airport hotel.  If it's only five or six hours then we book into the cheap version, have a shower and a good sleep.  If it's longer, we book the swankier alternative, swim in the pool, have a treatment at the spa, maybe even use the gym, and of course have a long sleep in a nice comfy bed.  In both cases they're always very efficient, they will make sure you are awakened in good time for your flight. It makes an enormous difference and is worth every penny.

I have never bothered with a stop over - other than many years ago when it was a novelty to stop over.  I reckon I can stand anything for 24 hours and so far so good. We always do a power walk around the airport when refuelling just to get the steps up on the apple watch LOL

[ramot]

41 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

We always do a stopover but we don't even attempt to visit the city.  We book into an airport hotel.  If it's only five or six hours then we book into the cheap version, have a shower and a good sleep.  If it's longer, we book the swankier alternative, swim in the pool, have a treatment at the spa, maybe even use the gym, and of course have a long sleep in a nice comfy bed.  In both cases they're always very efficient, they will make sure you are awakened in good time for your flight. It makes an enormous difference and is worth every penny.

Having been expats, we had strategically placed friends en route, so always had a stopover on our annual trip to the UK, and caught up with friends, for a couple of days each way. Made the journey much easier. Sadly so many have lost their jobs due to covid, that is no longer an option, so I have decided I will only travel business, my husband might be in economy though as he doesn’t want to spend the money !! We have used the airport hotels several times and can’t fault them.

Edited November 7, 2021 by ramot

[Marisawright]

27 minutes ago, Quoll said:

I have never bothered with a stop over - other than many years ago when it was a novelty to stop over.  I reckon I can stand anything for 24 hours and so far so good. We always do a power walk around the airport when refuelling just to get the steps up on the apple watch LOL

I get restless legs, so I can't tolerate a long flight without breaks.   In the old days ,when flights were less packed, it was a lot easier to get up and walk around during the flight, or do exercises, or find a couple of seats to stretch out on.  These days you're more inclined to be stuck in your seat most of the time, so I really need that break.  

The other advantage of a sleep break is that I'm able to hit the ground running when I arrive in the UK, instead of needing time to adjust my body clock. No idea why that works but it does.

[ramot]

40 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I get restless legs, so I can't tolerate a long flight without breaks.   In the old days ,when flights were less packed, it was a lot easier to get up and walk around during the flight, or do exercises, or find a couple of seats to stretch out on.  These days you're more inclined to be stuck in your seat most of the time, so I really need that break.  

The other advantage of a sleep break is that I'm able to hit the ground running when I arrive in the UK, instead of needing time to adjust my body clock. No idea why that works but it does.

Doesn’t seem to help on the return way though. I averaged 6 long haul flights a year when living in Brunei, sometimes I felt dreadful for 10 days on returning, occasionally I was absolutely fine, I just wished I could work out why I was fine, as I could have made a fortune out of the answer.

[MacGyver]

3 hours ago, ramot said:

Doesn’t seem to help on the return way though. I averaged 6 long haul flights a year when living in Brunei, sometimes I felt dreadful for 10 days on returning, occasionally I was absolutely fine, I just wished I could work out why I was fine, as I could have made a fortune out of the answer.

Departure and arrival times seem to have the biggest impact for me. If the flight leaves at 6am, you're at the airport for 3 or 4am and already exhausted before you leave. If you arrive in the morning you have to fight to stay awake all day or sleep during the day, prolonging the jet lag. I prefer to leave in the evening, feel naturally tired and more likely to sleep on the plane, and try to arrive late afternoon/early evening so you have time to get a shower, get something to eat, possibly go for a walk and then pass out from exhaustion, forcing you into the new time zone. Bit groggy for a couple of days but otherwise fine.