Visa Advice - Newly Qualified Primary Teacher

[Family R]

Hi All,

Apologies for the vague question. What visa would my wife apply for with the below criteria? I’m struggling to work it out from the points calculators available online and whether she’d need some form of sponsorship.

 

She is 40 years old

Finishes her 3 year Primary Education degree with qualified teacher status next year.

Does placement count as experience when calculating points?

I’m 45 years old

We have 3 children

Looking to move to Queensland.

 

any advice would be hugely appreciated

 

 

[Quoll]

Not going to qualify as a teacher I am afraid. Teaching requires 4 year university training, a 3 year degree isnt going to cut it.  Not sure which states, if any are supporting primary teachers these days, they often want something additional, like a second language - Australia isnt short of primary teachers and even if she got a visa, the chances of getting a job in a place anyone wants to live in are rather slim.

[Family R]

Thanks for the reply.

Is that an Australian criteria as it’s a full primary degree course but it’s 3 years not 4? There is no 4 year option and she’ll qualify with fully qualified teacher status as it’s a full teacher degree not an add on to an existing degree.

[Quoll]

Yes, all Australian teachers have to have 4 years University based training. Sorry but she won't be eligible with that. 

[Southlander]

That's the quirkiness of immigration to Australia. 

Following from what Quoll says (ignoring any work sentiments), it is not possible to obtain a positive skills assessment as a Primary School Teacher with a 3 year degree. Ironically you could obtain teaching registration from Queensland to teach, based on the 3 year teaching degree, without any need for English tests.

Unfortunately there is no way around this. There is nothing that you can write, suggest or provide that will change their procedure/minds. Aitsl want 4 years of university. QCT status has no bearing, as is not something Australians acquire. They finish 4 years and they start teaching (provisional to full registration). The degree is not inferior to theirs but they just happen to only provide 4 year teaching degrees. The separate education bodies within the states recognise the UK 3 year degree for registration but not the immigration team, which is the one that counts. If you went there on a different visa stream your wife would probably get her teaching registration. But again this is not anything to do with immigration per se. 

A 1 year pgc will suffice but any work experience accrued to date will not count. Not sure if a minimum amount of post work experience will be needed to to obtain a positive outcome. The other option it to do a 2x year masters in Australia, maybe in Early Years. That way you will come out with both pathways to teach. And can have positive skills assessments in both. 

Again you need to decide how much you want to go and the risk you're prepared to take. Age obviously is tickin, so need to factor in how likely all can be achieved within the time frame. 

Please feel free to ask further, immigration is tough and you need to weigh up the odds. No risk no reward but it there is a degree of is it actually possible and figure it out as a family. 

 

 

 

[Amber Snowball]

I must admit when I looked at this my first thought was “oh no, you’ve left it too late”. I’m not sure what visas would be available to you if your wife doesn’t qualify until next year and then needs another year or 2 study to meet immigration requirements, age and no experience would mean a low points total in 2-3years time. 
I will caveat this with the fact I’m definitely no expert! 

Maybe a no obligation chat with a registered migration agent to see if there is a feasible pathway. Just because time is definitely against you. There are a number who post on this forum who are properly registered and won’t give you false hope and take your money under false pretences. 
If you are told by one of them that there is a way, fantastic and if not you’ll know for sure that it’s a no go and can get on with your life.

Good luck.
 

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Family R said:

What visa would my wife apply for with the below criteria? I’m struggling to work it out from the points calculators available online and whether she’d need some form of sponsorship.

She is 40 years old

Finishes her 3 year Primary Education degree with qualified teacher status next year.

Does placement count as experience when calculating points

 

Sadly, I agree with Amber.   You've probably left it too late.  The age cutoff is 45, and while she might be able to get the required qualifications and experience before that deadline, she'll have lost too many points for age. 

I think you should definitely book in a consultation with a good agent like Suncoast Migration or Go Matilda.  You can't afford to waste time on forums.  If there's any avenue at all for you to get a visa, you need to know urgently so you can take action.   good luck.

Sponsorship is unlikely to help, as most employers will only sponsor a temp visa for a couple of years - by which time she'd be too old to go for a permanent visa.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Marisawright

[Family R]

4 hours ago, Quoll said:

Not going to qualify as a teacher I am afraid. Teaching requires 4 year university training, a 3 year degree isnt going to cut it.  Not sure which states, if any are supporting primary teachers these days, they often want something additional, like a second language - Australia isnt short of primary teachers and even if she got a visa, the chances of getting a job in a place anyone wants to live in are rather slim.

 

[Family R]

Thanks everyone for the information / advice.

Not what we wanted to hear but at least we know.

I’ll get in touch with one of the companies like you mentioned to see if there’s a way.

[Amber Snowball]

Just now, Family R said:

Thanks everyone for the information / advice.

Not what we wanted to hear but at least we know.

I’ll get in touch with one of the companies like you mentioned to see if there’s a way.

Yes, the 2 companies marisa mentioned are well regarded. 
Find out for sure before you throw the dream away, it would be awful to not bother now and then find out you could have done something but by then it really is to late. 

[Marisawright]

One more thought.   If you're successful in getting the visa, you'll be 50 by the time you get to Australia.  That could be a problem for you getting into the workforce, because age discrimination is rampant in Australia.  

Having lived in Australia for 30 years, I thought ageism was the same all over the world, so when we were in the UK in 2015, I was surprised to find how much easier it was for older people to find work.  In Australia, once you're over 55, it's assumed you're too busy thinking of your retirement to be of value in the workforce. 

It will depend on what you do for a living, of course, as it's not the case in every occupation, but I thought it worth mentioning.  

https://www.hcamag.com/au/news/general/ageism-in-australia-on-the-rise-as-20-of-employees-report-encounters-with-age-discrimination/312676

Edited October 31, 2021 by Marisawright

[Family R]

Sorry to ask another question but I just want to make sure we don’t miss any potential opportunity.

Would a 2 year HND in media design be counted as higher education level study (and towards the 4 year requirement)? This was undertaken in approx 2004.

[Quoll]

2 hours ago, Family R said:

Sorry to ask another question but I just want to make sure we don’t miss any potential opportunity.

Would a 2 year HND in media design be counted as higher education level study (and towards the 4 year requirement)? This was undertaken in approx 2004.

Was it undertaken at a University? 

[Southlander]

It's close but still doesnt seem to bridge the education gap. HND seems to be a level 5 in the UK.

AITSL require AQF level 7, which is a bachelor degree equivalent (UK level 6)

UK Level 5 = HND or UK foundation degree = AQF level 6 = diploma or associate degree. 

 

[Family R]

Thank you all for the advice so far.

Following on from that we went and did some more research and came up with an alternative path we think.

It would be for a skilled nominated subclass 190 visa.

If my wife took a masters degree then that would give her the 4 years study at degree level criteria.

She could undertake that whilst working as a teacher and so then meet the 3 year work experience criteria.

She would be 44 by the time she had done the above.

Just sanity checking that she would have the 65 points required and that also this is a consistent visa and not likely to be subject to change? (we know there are no guarantees).

Just thought we would ask in here first before paying for a migration consultants initial consultation.

Thanks in advance.

[Marisawright]

Unfortunately, work experience undertaken before she’s fully qualified doesn’t count

[Southlander]

You would have more chance going for the 491 visa. As long as you are granted it before you're 45, you can transition to a permanent visa, on condition you fulfil the requirements (53k P/A salary, living in regional 3 years) Either you or you partner can do this. And can be in any job or field. But you have to live in regional area. 491 gives 10 points and 190, 5 points. You are a bit light with points and experience imho, so getting 20 points in IELTS will help. Teacher's need to do IELTS academic, (not PTE) which is the superior test.

Lastly you mention accruing work experience whilst studying, that can't happen. They will only credit your work experience the date you are finished your PGCe/Masters. Ie, you physically have your certificate from the university and transcripts. Not even the date you are advised you passed. Has to be signed, sealed and delivered. The that's day one of experience accruing, everything to date is counted as zero unfortunately. 

You should try do a 1 years pgc/masters level to save time. Maybe look into studying in Tasmania or Perth as I believe recent graduates are given a different path to stay on. Don't quote me but with looking into. 

65 is the minimum, but if they sponsor a small amonu of teachers in a year for the state, you need to be sure that your application will beat off the other applicants. Compare experience, points, age, single/married. 

If you have family in Australia, living in regional area they could sponsor you the 491 instead of the state, if that is an option... 

Please feel free to ask more questions, we all trying to get there and hopeful you find a way forwards

*491 Family sponsorship has to be on the main list, Primary School Teachers currently is on the short list so can't be sponsored by a family member unless it changes to long term skills. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Southlander

[Family R]

Thank you.

If she is fully qualified as a teacher from April does that mean her experience won’t count even though she’ll be working as a full time primary teacher?

[Southlander]

Unfortunately yes. Only once she has completed her further studies, and has the certificate in hand, is when it will be considered "day 1" of being a qualified teacher in the eyes of immigration. Immigration is simply ruthless. 

[Family R]

38 minutes ago, Southlander said:

Unfortunately yes. Only once she has completed her further studies, and has the certificate in hand, is when it will be considered "day 1" of being a qualified teacher in the eyes of immigration. Immigration is simply ruthless. 

Isn’t it just .

Thank you again.

worked out it would be a very small window in which to apply - literally about 4 to 8 weeks

As long as she applies before she’s 45 does that still mean she’ll get the ‘age points’ even if she turned 45 whilst the visa application was being processed?

[Southlander]

Feel for you... I really think you have a better chance studying in one of the states I mentioned above. Extremely expensive and still very risky. 

I'm fairly certain (don't quote me on it) but to apply for nomination you have to be under 45, it's only when you receive nomination and apply to the dha that your age is locked in. In other words have to still be 44 at this point. Points will stay same 40 to 44 then regardless. 

State nomination again is a lottery, some states won't even invite you and will expire after each year or will reject your eoi probably that you never really interested them and had better candidates chosen. And once they review it takes up to 4 weeks for nomination approval. Once nomination is given you then apply for your main visa and need to be 44 years old. Some states are quicker than others and have different quotas of teachers they have asked to sponsor. 

AITSL skills assessment takes 12 weeks, never quicker. So need to factor that in too...

 

[Tulip1]

This is an important thing for you.  It’s sounding like it’s not a possibility but you really need to contact an agent to get the true picture.  The ones that post on here will be honest with you.  If you don’t stand a chance it’s better you know that.  You’ve spent a long time researching but have still missed the bit about experience post training.  Not a dig, most of us probably would but surely it would be better to get all the info from an expert.  If I was you I’d reach out to an agent and know exactly  where you stand.  Best of luck.  

[Family R]

Thank you both. I really appreciate your time and honesty.

i was trying to get a revised overview before spending money on a consultancy session.

lots to mull over.

 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Southlander said:

You would have more chance going for the 491 visa. As long as you are granted it before you're 45, you can transition to a permanent visa, on condition you fulfil the requirements (53k P/A salary, living in regional 3 years) Either you or you partner can do this. And can be in any job or field.

If you do decide to go for the 491 visa, please be aware that it's only a temporary visa.  Though it does have a transition pathway, things can go wrong - and if they do, you'll have to move  back to the UK again at your own expense. Moving a whole family halfway round the world is very expensive, so you'd end up back where you started but with your life savings gone. 

With the 491, my biggest fear would be that they lower the age you can transition, to come into line with every other visa, then you'll have no options.

I also wouldn't advise studying in Australia unless you are rich.  The fees are very high.  You'd be able to work while your wife is studying, but you'll have difficulty getting a job. Employers will know you're reliant on your wife's short-term visa so they worry that you'll disappear suddenly.  And once again, you're taking the risk of moving the whole family to Australia with no guarantee you'll be able to stay.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Marisawright

[Family R]

12 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

If you do decide to go for the 491 visa, please be aware that it's only a temporary visa.  Though it does have a transition pathway, things can go wrong - and if they do, you'll have to move  back to the UK again at your own expense. Moving a whole family halfway round the world is very expensive, so you'd end up back where you started but with your life savings gone. 

With the 491, my biggest fear would be that they lower the age you can transition, to come into line with every other visa, then you'll have no options.

I also wouldn't advise studying in Australia unless you are rich.  The fees are very high.  You'd be able to work while your wife is studying, but you'll have difficulty getting a job. Employers will know you're reliant on your wife's short-term visa so they worry that you'll disappear suddenly.  And once again, you're taking the risk of moving the whole family to Australia with no guarantee you'll be able to stay.

 

Thank you.

We’d only go on a 190 as we don’t want to go regional. It’s either that visa or nothing I think.