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DanO

Creating a Gov.UK account

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10 hours ago, ramot said:

Well the state took more than that from my mother, a single parent who had worked hard all her life, did without lots to manage to buy a house, with a special mortgage from the council, and had to sell it to fund her care, she was allowed to keep her last 23.000 pds!!! The new rules might benefit some ordinary people like my mother?

Everyone has to sell their home to fund their care. Well just about unless there is another partner able to keep living it it.

In Australia you sell the house which funds the accomodation bond. A monthly amount is deducted each month which the provider keeps. But the average stay is only about 18 months as people are only going in at nearly end of life. The balance of the bond gets paid back to the family/estate.

In my mum's case yes she sold her unit to go into aged care but we got most of it back again when she died.

I know it will be different in UK but people aren't going to lose everything. It will come back on passing.

Also people who have no assets and cannot pay will still be taken care of.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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11 hours ago, Amber Snowball said:

This is part of an article in the metro which explains the flaws a bit @Blue Flu
 

 

Talking to my mum and dad about it, they have the perception that if they set aside £86,000 pounds that’s it – that’s all they’re going to have to worry about and they’re going to have have their care covered. 

‘But it doesn’t actually work that way at all. It’s a lot of smoke and mirrors potentially, and it doesn’t necessarily stack up.’

Sorry, this video isn't available any more.

He said that the main reason for this is that only the cost of care itself counts towards the cap amount. Someone’s ‘hotel costs’ at a care home, such as accommodation and meals, are not included, even though they obviously still need to pay for them.

A bill for the specific care home someone uses will not be met, either.

Instead, people will be allocated a certain amount based on what the local authority believes is an appropriate fee – known as the ‘personal budget’. If someone chooses a care home that charges above the average, the extra will not count towards the cap. 

Jon gives the example of a typical care home costing someone about £750 a week. Their local authority may have calculated that the ’personal budget’ for a care home is only £600 per week. From that figure, they will not pay the ‘hotel costs’ which could be around £230 a week. That means the only amount the government would take into account is £370 a week – even though the person is actually spending more than double that. 

‘Based on those average figures, it would take 232 weeks for you to reach the cap,’ Jon said. ‘During that time, you’ve paid, on average, about £175,000. 

‘Even when you reach the cap, you’re still going to have to pay your hotel costs and the extra over what the local authority thinks you should be paying.’

That extra could come to around £20,000 a year, even after they have already spent more than twice the care cap figure.

People could be ‘very surprised’ by how much they still had to pay, he said.

Many will never reach the cap at all and will receive no help, he adds, as the average life expectancy for somebody going into care is two years – one year if they’re going into nursing care.

The last point is the important one. Most people are not in care for years and years.

People presumably get choice of where they go as well. Like when you go a hotel. If you want 5 Star all the way it will be very expensive.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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Well this has drifted off my original point! 🤪

All very interesting however - thanks all. In my case, at the moment I am leaning towards remaining in Australia and going on holiday to UK and Europe every 18 months. I know it costs, but the idea of walking away from (eventually) a secure $37,0000 a year in Australia to zero on the UK is just not sensible.

I have some time to think further about it, but at face value I can retire here and live very comfortably for 25 years before having to rely exclusively on the pension. Considerably fewer comfortable years  the UK and knowing I would never have that pension safety net is likely to shorten my lifespan through stress!

Edited by DanO
Autocorrect

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6 minutes ago, DanO said:

All very interesting however - thanks all. In my case, at the moment I am leaning towards remaining in Australia and going on holiday to UK and Europe every 18 months. I know it costs, but the idea of walking away from (eventually) a secure $37,0000 a year in Australia to zero on the UK is just not sensible.

I have some time to think further about it, but at face value I can retire here and live very comfortably for 25 years before having to rely on the pension. Considerably less in the UK and knowing I would never have that pension safety net is likely to shorten my lifespan through stress!

That's exactly our thinking.   None of us knows how long we're going to live, and the prospect of having to up sticks and move back to Australia in our 80's, if we live that long, would be too daunting.

Worth noting, though, that if you moved to a country with a reciprocal agreement with Australia (like several European countries) then you could claim your Australian pensions there no worries.   Post-Brexit, your British passport doesn't give you any special access to Europe, but it's easier than you think for an Australian to get residency in Europe.  There is irritating red tape of course, but it's a case of proving you have sufficient assets, which by the sound of it, you would have.  

A sunny retirement in Italy or Cyprus, perhaps?

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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44 minutes ago, Parley said:

Everyone has to sell their home to fund their care. Well just about unless there is another partner able to keep living it it.

In Australia you sell the house which funds the accomodation bond. A monthly amount is deducted each month which the provider keeps. But the average stay is only about 18 months as people are only going in at nearly end of life. The balance of the bond gets paid back to the family/estate.

In my mum's case yes she sold her unit to go into aged care but we got most of it back again when she died.

I know it will be different in UK but people aren't going to lose everything. It will come back on passing.

Also people who have no assets and cannot pay will still be taken care of.

Should have said my mother was in UK.so a different system to Australia.

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1 minute ago, ramot said:

Should have said my mother was in UK.so a different system to Australia.

I know. But I don't expect it to be all that different. Ie an amount presumably needs to be paid on the way in and an amount will be received on the way out.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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20 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That's exactly our thinking.   None of us knows how long we're going to live, and the prospect of having to up sticks and move back to Australia in our 80's, if we live that long, would be too daunting.

Worth noting, though, that if you moved to a country with a reciprocal agreement with Australia (like several European countries) then you could claim your Australian pensions there no worries.   Post-Brexit, your British passport doesn't give you any special access to Europe, but it's easier than you think for an Australian to get residency in Europe.  There is irritating red tape of course, but it's a case of proving you have sufficient assets, which by the sound of it, you would have.  

A sunny retirement in Italy or Cyprus, perhaps?

Sunny retirement isn't a particular incentive for me. If it was, the simpler solution would be QLD...yuk!

We may consider Netherlands or France or Italy, but to be honest I don't think the appeal is the same as the UK (local pubs, National Trust and family).

It's great to have options though!

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4 minutes ago, Parley said:

I know. But I don't expect it to be all that different. Ie an amount presumably needs to be paid on the way in and an amount will be received on the way out.

I can’t answer as it was 20 years ago, all I know is that she had a full pension, care allowance, and money from the sale  of her house, and every penny went apart from the 23.000 pds left when she sadly died. Nothing else left, no refund, . She was not in a very expensive care home, it was  in the Yorkshire,  very rural, but can’t fault her care there.

I’ll leave this thread as I don’t want this to become an argument about.something so personal.

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I note France doesn't have a reciprocal pension agreement yet.

I wonder if the UK may change with all the free trade deals and AUKUS stuff that's been happening....

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1 hour ago, DanO said:

 

We may consider Netherlands or France or Italy, but to be honest I don't think the appeal is the same as the UK (local pubs, National Trust and family).

It's great to have options though!

However, family will be only a couple of hours away instead of 24, and even accessible by rail. Also surrounded by historic buildings wherever you go. 

I don’t expect to see a change with the UK.and I doubt you’ll see anything from France either after all this time

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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As your wife is Australian, I don't think it would be wise to burn all your bridges in Australia by selling house etc.

No guarantees she would love it as much as you and you may find yourself back after 12 months at great expense.


Buy a man eat fish. The Day, Teach Man, to lifetime.      - Joe Biden.

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1 hour ago, DanO said:

Sunny retirement isn't a particular incentive for me. If it was, the simpler solution would be QLD...yuk!

We may consider Netherlands or France or Italy, but to be honest I don't think the appeal is the same as the UK (local pubs, National Trust and family).

It's great to have options though!

Or how about locations with large retiree ex pat existing communities? Places like Corfu, Malta, Algarve, parts of Spain etc? While countries like Netherlands are sound places for retirement for own people, you would really need to know the language if needing care. Even more so in Italy and France. Having lived some years in France, I did chance upon retirees from The States and UK from time to time . I recall the Americans telling me, even though they spoke fair to reasonable   French , that they didn't find it easy to develop relationships in the area they lived. There were few ex pats, and locals polite but I had the impression they were lonely for deeper contact.

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9 minutes ago, Parley said:

As your wife is Australian, I don't think it would be wise to burn all your bridges in Australia by selling house etc.

No guarantees she would love it as much as you and you may find yourself back after 12 months at great expense.

Good advise. Things are seldom what may first appear to be. n my case for example, I can easily convince myself that a South Coast English location or even a Scottish beauty spot would satisfy what is what I perceive to be lacking in Australia , only to slowly to arrive at the awareness of a host of other issues not clearly thought out  or dismissed as unimportant may come to light. 

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We aren't desperate to leave Australia. We could retire here quite happily, but the UK option presents some interesting lifestyle and family opportunities. Europe is much less appealing including the reasons @Blue FluFlu mentions.

As I stated previously, the financials for Aus (large house, tax free Super, no inheritance tax, cheaper cars and fuel, eventual pension safety net) are highly compelling reasons to stay. 

We can still enjoy great European holidays, and once both retired can make those stays more extensive (6-8 weeks at a time).

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9 minutes ago, DanO said:

We aren't desperate to leave Australia. We could retire here quite happily, but the UK option presents some interesting lifestyle and family opportunities. Europe is much less appealing including the reasons @Blue FluFlu mentions.

As I stated previously, the financials for Aus (large house, tax free Super, no inheritance tax, cheaper cars and fuel, eventual pension safety net) are highly compelling reasons to stay. 

We can still enjoy great European holidays, and once both retired can make those stays more extensive (6-8 weeks at a time).

You share my position on the pro's and con's perfectly. In my case, I also prefer a country of smaller dimension in the age. Easier to navigate and all sorts of concessions on coach and rail travel. So many more places within easy reach to travel to and as you say Europe. 

My feeling is it would be easy enough to purchase an apartment in a favoured location for sunshine getaways at a fairly decent price. I have found the ageism not relevant in UK/EU or not to such a degree as Australia, which has always been heavily focused on a youth culture. Some will disagree and possibly certain locations less so. 

More to the point, there will come a time, when those long flights to Europe will become so tedious, or indeed harder to manage , as to rule out . That would be a turning point. Thing is none of us know when situations arise that make this the case. 

I suppose if one loves Australia so much it is of limited consequence. 

 

Edited by Blue Flu
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On 26/10/2021 at 11:26, DanO said:

Thanks Sloth.

Sounds like a fair suggestion!

The other thing I should have mentioned is you can also split your pot any way you like, and only put say a quarter or a half of it into pension mode according to your needs.

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4 hours ago, Sloth said:

The other thing I should have mentioned is you can also split your pot any way you like, and only put say a quarter or a half of it into pension mode according to your needs.

Of course any interest you earn in accumulation mode then becomes taxable. In Income stream mode it is tax free as I understand it?

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7 hours ago, Parley said:

I know. But I don't expect it to be all that different. Ie an amount presumably needs to be paid on the way in and an amount will be received on the way out.

No nothing returned on the way out. There’s no accommodation bond payment here. 

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