Questions surrounding the announcement of re-opening of international borders

[Mmmbop]

6 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

I have had a similar discussion with Marisa in the past and she challenged me to post details of people who had been refused permission to leave permanently. As I had come by those details partly through work, and partly though being a member of Facebook groups I was not prepared to share the intimate details as I feel that is unfair to the individuals concerned. As a result she refused to believe in situations such as dual citizens being refused permission to leave 4 or 5 times, or the most distressing one - an elderly lady who was set to follow her family home to the UK in March 2020, but is still here, with little money, no home and no belongings, as her family took them all in anticipation of her following them. Its good to hear from someone else who has witnessed these heart=breaking refusals. 

Thanks for sharing.

It is indeed a heartbreaking situation for so many, and wrong. I have heard countless stories like that. 

I've seen many people lazily chalk it off to 'oh, well everyone's suffering during the pandemic, so just get on with it.' A very reductive and dangerous mindset in my opinion.

And exasperating to see someone ignorantly denying the situation exists for reasons best known to themselves. 

Anyway, I am very pleased that this situation will hopefully be resolved soon.

[BusbyBoo]

On 02/10/2021 at 02:09, FirstWorldProblems said:

Today's announcement that borders will re-open in November is great news, and I'm sure mine is not the only family hoping to travel to Australia to spend Christmas with our family there. Qantas immediately brought forward the start of bookable flights from 19 December to 14 November for their two most popular routes, London and LA.  As I have been exploring flight options today I can see people are booking them quickly.

But the announcement is light on detail, absent which it is difficult to book a flight with confidence.  Thinking there might be others struggling with the same questions, I thought I'd start a thread where we can share any answers we might find, or add to the related questions.

Question: Are family of Citizens and perm Residents able to enter?

Although the official press release refers to "australian citizens and permanent resident"s, all newspaper reports of the press conference quote the PM as saying "fully vaccinated Australians, permanent residents and family members"

Question: How do the family of citizens get a visa to join travelling citizens?

I've had a visitor visa application sat in "Received" state since February.  Do I delete it and try again?  

Question: What constitutes "fully vaccinated"?

"Seven-day home quarantine for Australian citizens and permanent residents fully vaccinated" is great news for those visiting family.  No need to spend two weeks in a hotel.  But what constitutes fully vaccinated?  Australia is very clear that this is 2 doses of an approved vaccine.    In the UK (which is one of only two destinations Qantas is opening flights for), under 18's can only have one dose.

So will they be allowed to travel?

Question: Will Qantas refund a flexible ticket?

Given the uncertainty brought by the questions above, and the speed at which tickets are being bought, it seems sensible to book a seat via a fully flexible, fully refundable tickets.  Qantas describes their "flex" ticket as "fully refundable", but when you dig into the detail on their website, the refund is always referred to as a voucher that has to be used within 12 months.  Though hidden deeply in the website you can find reference to cash refunds being something to speak to your local Qantas office about.   1hr 12mins on hold today was all I can manage before giving up.

During Covid I've had a few cancelled flights and was able to get a refund from Air China instantly but Emirates took a few months and Etihad I have a voucher with an option for refund.  What experience do people have in getting a cash refund out of Qantas when you choose to cancel? 

I thought I’d add another question…

it looks like at present you can book from Sydney (via Singapore) and Melbourne (via Perth Darwin or Singapore when sorted) to UK. However with home quarantine expected, what will happen if you live in another state and require to take a domestic flight to another state? How will quarantine work? 
 

I have been brave and I have booked for February.. I decided on Sydney flights,  as I’m in NSW I won’t need a domestic connection. So I’m keeping everything crossed.

I’d also be interested to know if Australia will be doing booster shots, I’ll be 6 months from 2nd shot and really would be happier if I could get a booster.

Edited October 5, 2021 by BusbyBoo
Posted too soon

[Loopylu]

17 hours ago, Mmmbop said:

Yes you're quite right. It's a totally transparent and simple system, and all the people who have fallen foul of it are clearly just not as intelligent as you.

And thank you for your concern, I'm sure it's quite genuine. How condescending.

Read this: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-09/coronaivurs-border-restrictions-hard-to-leave-permanently/100274870

I'm sure you have a thousand reasons why the people in this article are all doing it wrong and really it's fantastically straightforward. Jog on.

 

I see you are being hounded by the Know-it-all Gang who all take it in turns to home in on one (usually left leaning) poster to constantly attack.  I was their victim earlier this year when I had to travel to the UK to be with my terminally ill father, leaving my husband who has kidney failure and was about to start dialysis behind.  Apparently, I should not have complained about the travel restrictions and should just be grateful that the powers that be let me travel.... Apparently fundamental human rights to a family life and to travel across borders are rightly at the discretion of the Australian Government.....

I chose to hide all comments from and block the members of the KIA Gang and life on this forum has been much more pleasant since.

[Booma]

On 04/10/2021 at 07:33, FirstWorldProblems said:

Citizens, PR and their immediate families.  
 

If they are fully vaccinated you can quarantine at home. 
 

That’s all we know right now.  
 

So it’s clearly not for tourists coming over for a beach holiday, but neither does it say it’s for stranded aussies overseas returning permanently.  My interpretation is that Citizens, PR and their immediate families (like me) can visit Australia. 

I've submitted my exemption, so I’ll find out soon if I am correct  

Clarification really is needed though. 

The PM was interviewed on the news this morning and he stated that immediate family is husband, wife and their children. He explicitly ruled out parents as being part of the family in this instance. He stated that extended family (parents) would be considered at a later unspecified date.

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

My travel exemption and visitor visa were approved overnight.  I submitted the visa in February but the exemption on Sunday evening (U.K. time), linking it to the visa.  
 

I wrote that the purpose of the travel was to visit family.   So that’s one question answered - the reopening is not just for those permanents returning 

[Amber Snowball]

2 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

My travel exemption and visitor visa were approved overnight.  I submitted the visa in February but the exemption on Sunday evening (U.K. time), linking it to the visa.  
 

I wrote that the purpose of the travel was to visit family.   So that’s one question answered - the reopening is not just for those permanents returning 

Fab! 
I must admit when I looked at it, it sounded like they were letting Australian residents out on holiday but not much about letting tourists in.

 

[ramot]

2 hours ago, Loopylu said:

I see you are being hounded by the Know-it-all Gang who all take it in turns to home in on one (usually left leaning) poster to constantly attack.  I was their victim earlier this year when I had to travel to the UK to be with my terminally ill father, leaving my husband who has kidney failure and was about to start dialysis behind.  Apparently, I should not have complained about the travel restrictions and should just be grateful that the powers that be let me travel.... Apparently fundamental human rights to a family life and to travel across borders are rightly at the discretion of the Australian Government.....

I chose to hide all comments from and block the members of the KIA Gang and life on this forum has been much more pleasant since.

 Loopylu,  Many posters on PIO are very supportive and try to help. For instance in my last post in reply to you, out of concern I said I hoped you were ok with the local covid outbreak.

Having been a member since 2009, I would say on balance far more people have had help and support, than not. I know I definitely have, and been very grateful for it.

Yes I agree that threads get out of hand, I have had experience of that, but I’ve learnt that the best thing to do as you did is put posters on ignore, or as I do  leave the thread, however angry or upset I feel, might not stop the thread, but stops me getting too involved. The written word can sometimes be misconstrued. There is a report symbol on the top right of any post to report a post and  this alerts a moderator.

I’m only posting this, not to upset anyone, but because I genuinely think there are more good intentions to help on PIO than the opposite, so please don’t let an unfortunate experience put you off posting and helping others. I came back after a nasty case of bullying, and haven’t regretted it.

x M

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by ramot

[calNgary]

Can we get back on topic and discuss that only or we will close the thread.

Thanks

 Cal x

[Loopylu]

51 minutes ago, calNgary said:

Can we get back on topic and discuss that only or we will close the thread.

Thanks

 Cal x

Can you please stop the bullies who are attacking Mmmbop? 

[Mmmbop]

28 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

Can you please stop the bullies who are attacking Mmmbop? 

Thanks for your response Loopylu, and I'm very sorry you had to go through all that.

I'm not feeling bullied, it's fine! Just a strong disagreement. They're entitled to their view, however wrong and unsympathetic it might be to my mind.

I would say that the discussion IS relevant to the thread though. The point about whether exemptions are hard to secure is an important consideration for anyone flying out right now. For example, I will be applying for one regardless of the borders most likely being open, because if they're not, I won't be able to go if I don't have an exemption.Therefore it's valuable info for people to be aware of now.

The last thing I'll say on it: Marisa is right to the extent that in theory, if you present all the evidence that you want to leave for good, you're probably likely to be approved. However, there are many stories of people doing this and being turned down, because ultimately it's at the discretion of a border official, it's a somewhat subjective judgement as to whether someone 'genuinely' wants to leave or is just saying they will but actually will come back (and you can bet people's backgrounds factor into that decision), and no reason for the decision needs to be given. So it's unpredictable. You'll probably be fine, but do lots of research on how to fill in the application and don't assume you'll get it. Also, maybe they're more lax with them now we're approaching opening up.

Anyway, over and out, sorry to clog up the thread with this

Edited October 5, 2021 by Mmmbop

[Mmmbop]

3 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

My travel exemption and visitor visa were approved overnight.  I submitted the visa in February but the exemption on Sunday evening (U.K. time), linking it to the visa.  
 

I wrote that the purpose of the travel was to visit family.   So that’s one question answered - the reopening is not just for those permanents returning 

Can I clarify, do you mean you received an exemption for your family to visit Australia? Or for you to visit family in Australia?

If so, can I ask what the relationship is? I.e. parents (non immediate family) or 'immediate' family? 

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, Amber Snowball said:

Fab! 
I must admit when I looked at it, it sounded like they were letting Australian residents out on holiday but not much about letting tourists in.

 

I think they are letting citizens/PR holders in to holiday or do whatever.  Tourists outside that group are different with the exception of an immediate family member of a citizen/PR which I believe the OP is.  I think many think the borders will be open for anyone to come in which isn’t the case. 

[FirstWorldProblems]

1 hour ago, Mmmbop said:

Can I clarify, do you mean you received an exemption for your family to visit Australia? Or for you to visit family in Australia?

If so, can I ask what the relationship is? I.e. parents (non immediate family) or 'immediate' family? 

Happy to.

• Wife is Australian by birth. All her family are there
• Kids hold dual citizenship
• I have only British citizenship.
• I applied for travel exemption to Australia, from the UK as the spouse of an Australian citizen.
• I stated the purpose of the trip was to visit my wife's family in NSW.  I didn't elaborate on why we wanted to visit them (I contemplated a sob story, but didn't), or who we wanted to see
• I provided marriage certificate and joint bank account statement as prove of our enduring marriage

It was approved on that basis.  The exact text is:

 

The travellers listed have been assessed as meeting the following exemption criteria:

• Immediate family member of Australian Citizen or permanent resident

Consideration for a discretionary exemption is not required in this instance.

[FirstWorldProblems]

43 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I think they are letting citizens/PR holders in to holiday or do whatever.  Tourists outside that group are different with the exception of an immediate family member of a citizen/PR which I believe the OP is.  I think many think the borders will be open for anyone to come in which isn’t the case. 

Yes, exactly this.

[Mmmbop]

1 hour ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Happy to.

• Wife is Australian by birth. All her family are there
• Kids hold dual citizenship
• I have only British citizenship.
• I applied for travel exemption to Australia, from the UK as the spouse of an Australian citizen.
• I stated the purpose of the trip was to visit my wife's family in NSW.  I didn't elaborate on why we wanted to visit them (I contemplated a sob story, but didn't), or who we wanted to see
• I provided marriage certificate and joint bank account statement as prove of our enduring marriage

It was approved on that basis.  The exact text is:

 

The travellers listed have been assessed as meeting the following exemption criteria:

• Immediate family member of Australian Citizen or permanent resident

Consideration for a discretionary exemption is not required in this instance.

Thanks very much. Congrats on the exemption.

[NicF]

For anyone thinking of coming to South Australia (I know - it's probably not many) the premier has said that SA will not be signing up to the 7 day home quarantine for international travelers, for the time being at least.  The good news for people in Australia is that there is an expectation that fully vaccinated visitors from NSW and Victoria will be allowed in to the state by Christmas.  More details, in case anyone is interested, in this article https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-06/sa-fully-vaccinated-interstate-travel-for-christmas/100518050

[JetBlast]

3 hours ago, NicF said:

For anyone thinking of coming to South Australia (I know - it's probably not many) the premier has said that SA will not be signing up to the 7 day home quarantine for international travelers.

I find this very strange. A few months back SA was looking at a home quarantine trial.

[NicF]

22 minutes ago, JetBlast said:

I find this very strange. A few months back SA was looking at a home quarantine trial.

They are still doing the trial but it is for interstate visitors currently and not international arrivals.  They may well opt to go for home quarantine for fully vaccinated international arrivals but it will be for 14 days and not the 7 NSW are doing at least for the time being.

Edited October 6, 2021 by NicF

[MacGyver]

6 hours ago, NicF said:

They are still doing the trial but it is for interstate visitors currently and not international arrivals.  They may well opt to go for home quarantine for fully vaccinated international arrivals but it will be for 14 days and not the 7 NSW are doing at least for the time being.

I wonder how they’ll manage this if SA allows international arrivals (with 14 day home quarantine), opens interstate border to NSW (with 7 day home quarantine or no quarantine), but NSW opens international border with 7 day home quarantine.

As I wrote that I realised I answered my own question - international arrivals would complete 7 days home quarantine in NSW then 7 days home quarantine in SA (totalling 14 days quarantine which would be compatible with SA’s 14 day home quarantine for international arrivals).

It could all get a bit messy between the states over the next few months.

[Nemesis]

2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

I wonder how they’ll manage this if SA allows international arrivals (with 14 day home quarantine), opens interstate border to NSW (with 7 day home quarantine or no quarantine), but NSW opens international border with 7 day home quarantine.

As I wrote that I realised I answered my own question - international arrivals would complete 7 days home quarantine in NSW then 7 days home quarantine in SA (totalling 14 days quarantine which would be compatible with SA’s 14 day home quarantine for international arrivals).

It could all get a bit messy between the states over the next few months.

But if they live in SA how can they complete home quarantine in NSW? they'd have to do hotel quarantine there. 

Qld is just being plain batty about it. Not o ly the strict rules about no shared entrances etc forhome quarantine property, but you are not allowed to get any deliveries! SO you arriver back from staying somewhere for months because of the border closures, but aren't allowed to order any food. And thats been cinfirmed by Queensland Health. No food deliveries, not even supermarkets, no mail, no nothing. Not sure how they plan to stop the mail, think that really is a step too far.

You also need your own transport and have to drive to get tests 4 times. Thats even dafter. Not allowed to get food delivered but you are allowed to go and and drive around to find a test centre. It also means if you don't have your own car, you will be put in a hotel. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Nemesis

[ramot]

5 hours ago, Nemesis said:

But if they live in SA how can they complete home quarantine in NSW? they'd have to do hotel quarantine there. 

Qld is just being plain batty about it. Not o ly the strict rules about no shared entrances etc forhome quarantine property, but you are not allowed to get any deliveries! SO you arriver back from staying somewhere for months because of the border closures, but aren't allowed to order any food. And thats been cinfirmed by Queensland Health. No food deliveries, not even supermarkets, no mail, no nothing. Not sure how they plan to stop the mail, think that really is a step too far.

You also need your own transport and have to drive to get tests 4 times. Thats even dafter. Not allowed to get food delivered but you are allowed to go and and drive around to find a test centre. It also means if you don't have your own car, you will be put in a hotel. 

We have friends in home quarantine quarantine on the Sunshine Coast Qld at the moment from Sydney, had to have an operation there, and they definitely are getting home deliveries. Certainly haven’t heard them mentioning any of the above other restrictions. No idea how they got home from the airport, but it would be the same for any state? I’ll ask them about the other things you mention when I’m next in touch ‘by phone obviously’ .Best to hear the details from someone in that situation.

Edited October 6, 2021 by ramot

[Nemesis]

1 hour ago, ramot said:

We have friends in home quarantine quarantine on the Sunshine Coast Qld at the moment from Sydney, had to have an operation there, and they definitely are getting home deliveries. Certainly haven’t heard them mentioning any of the above other restrictions. No idea how they got home from the airport, but it would be the same for any state? I’ll ask them about the other things you mention when I’m next in touch ‘by phone obviously’ .Best to hear the details from someone in that situation.

It certainly wasn't mentioned when the very first people - who would have included your friends - entered Qld, it got mentioned for the first time over the weekend, and the rules have certainly been changed on the website. I was with a police officer who got a call asking the question. He phoned Queensland Health expecting to be told it was rubbish, but the person he spoke to was definite. No Coles, no Woolworths. He was stunned.

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

It certainly wasn't mentioned when the very first people - who would have included your friends - entered Qld, it got mentioned for the first time over the weekend, and the rules have certainly been changed on the website. I was with a police officer who got a call asking the question. He phoned Queensland Health expecting to be told it was rubbish, but the person he spoke to was definite. No Coles, no Woolworths. He was stunned.

Sounds totally over the top. Wonder if you would be eligible for Red Cross food parcels?

Edited October 7, 2021 by ramot

[Drumbeat]

9 hours ago, ramot said:

Sounds totally over the top. Wonder if you would be eligible for Red Cross food parcels?

You can certainly get home deliveries in WA when in self quarantine.

[Parley]

I doubt it would be be government policy to starve people in quarantine.