Buying in Sydney… it seems impossible!

[NatalieB]

We are looking at a move to Sydney as my hubby has been offered sponsorship from a construction company based in the cbd.

We are a family of 4 (we have 2 boys age 11 and 12 years) and currently live in a village in Lincolnshire, uk.

As we aren’t able to come over to do a reccy I am trying to research as much as possible online.

Rental properties are expensive but they are here in the uk too so no deal breaker but I can’t seem to find any houses for sale in or around Sydney for a reasonable price. Most of them are auction (I can’t see a guide price anywhere on the adverts) or they are millions of dollars…..

 

how do people afford to buy in Sydney? We can’t rent forever, we would like to retire one day and not have to worry about paying rent / mortgage!

 

am I panicking about nothing or am I seeing things as they are?

 

any help or advice would be much appreciated!!

 

thank you, Natalie

[Quoll]

Nope, unless you are on a very high salary Sydney is beyond most pockets - ask Marisawright she went through all this before deciding on Melbourne! Most properties are sold at auction these days and in Sydney, any place you’d actually want to live in is going to start at several million - there are going to be a load of places you won’t want to live in too.   It’s nothing like any village in Lincolnshire that’s for sure! 

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Quoll said:

Nope, unless you are on a very high salary Sydney is beyond most pockets - ask Marisawright she went through all this before deciding on Melbourne! Most properties are sold at auction these days and in Sydney, any place you’d actually want to live in is going to start at several million - there are going to be a load of places you won’t want to live in too.   It’s nothing like any village in Lincolnshire that’s for sure! 

Probably on a par to moving to London from a village in Lincolnshire. I think you will find it tough to find an affordable property in Sydney . Lincolnshire is my husband’s home county so as we have loads of family around Boston, am aware of property prices in the area.

Dont mean to depress you, but as others have posted, Sydney is very expensive. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by ramot

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, NatalieB said:

We are looking at a move to Sydney as my hubby has been offered sponsorship from a construction company based in the cbd.

We are a family of 4 (we have 2 boys age 11 and 12 years) and currently live in a village in Lincolnshire, uk.

....how do people afford to buy in Sydney? We can’t rent forever, we would like to retire one day and not have to worry about paying rent / mortgage!

If your husband got offered a job in London, would you move?  Or would you decide house prices in London were too expensive?

Sydney is exactly like that for Australians.  Houses in Sydney are DOUBLE the price of anywhere else in the country (except Melbourne).  

Ordinary people do manage to live in Sydney, but they do the same as people who work in London - they live far out of the city and have a long, tedious commute to work. Unless your husband is willing to face a commute of over an hour every day, you'll be living in a suburb, so it will be a very different lifestyle to what you have now. Don't expect a beach lifestyle, either - the most affordable parts of the city are a one or two hour drive from the nearest beach, and have stinking hot, humid summers.

I know the Central Coast is popular with Poms.  Over an hour commute to Sydney on the train, plus factor in time to get to and from the station at either end.  The Central Coast used to be a haven for drug addicts and down-and-outs but some areas have improved by leaps and bounds in recent years, just check the reviews carefully on Homely. 

https://www.homely.com.au/find-places

I wonder whether that is really practical for your husband, though.  I used to know people who did it every day, but you could see the toll it took over the years.  Nowadays it's more achievable, IF you can work from home a couple of days a week, but that might not be possible in your husband's job. 

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, NatalieB said:

We are looking at a move to Sydney as my hubby has been offered sponsorship from a construction company based in the cbd.

Picking up on this - what kind of visa has he been offered?  Employers can offer two kinds of sponsored visa.  One is temporary (482) and the other is permanent (186).

If they're offering a 186, grab it - it will give you Permanent Residency,  which means you'll be able to live in Australia long-term, and eventually get citizenship.  

If they're only offering a 482, think VERY VERY carefully.  I would not even consider a 482 with two boys in secondary school.  Far too risky. 

[can1983]

2-3 million for a small family home in the inner west (Drummoyne) where I used to live.

Inner west is certainly not a horror commute to the CBD but its still not practical to go to the beach at the weekend unless you are prepared to sit in traffic for over an hour

Further out and its stinking hot and, in my opinion, not worth bothering with. The lifestyle would be so poor factoring in the oppressive temperatures and long distances.

The reality is there are lots of people who have either been there so long that they didn;t pay that for it when they brought or they, well, are super rich!

  

[BusbyBoo]

It’s a big decision, and as Marisa said on a temp visa you’re really going to have to think very hard. Other factors to consider apart from house prices is your kids education, as a temp resident there may be school fees to pay (depends on state not sure about NSW). Then when children leave school to go on to further education you have to pay full fees, and even if you are a permanent resident, although you can get domestic fees rather than international fees you have to pay upfront, rather than get a HECS (government loan payable later when they’re working). So ideally you want citizenship by that time.. which you can’t apply for until 4 years of permanent residency and it can take a year or more to get it.  Check they’re offering a fair wage too.

As others have said, could you afford London? If the Visa is permanent then go for it, you can move later.

I’m originally from Lincs, but we are nomadic including our kids. So for us we’ve always been ok with wherever we lay our hat that’s home. But if all your life has been in lincs village with family all around….. Sydney is London only younger and cleaner, although I love it, as long as I’m only visiting.

Good luck and remember if it’s your dream you can make it work whatever the obstacles.

 

[MacGyver]

Rent-vest? If you must live in Sydney you could rent a property in an area you could never afford to buy in, and buy an investment property somewhere else more affordable, maybe interstate (and rent that out to someone). It's not ideal and comes with a long list of challenges, but offers the option of enjoying living in Sydney while also having an investment tucked away for retirement.

[can1983]

4 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Rent-vest? If you must live in Sydney you could rent a property in an area you could never afford to buy in, and buy an investment property somewhere else more affordable, maybe interstate (and rent that out to someone). It's not ideal and comes with a long list of challenges, but offers the option of enjoying living in Sydney while also having an investment tucked away for retirement.

having been a landlord from afar in the past whilst it seems on paper to make sense the reality, at least for me, was far more complex. What do you do if something needs fixing? Ring a plumber in another state youve never been to? who is going to manage it (most agents I've had have been utterly useless)? whos going to repair it after its been turned into a cannabis factory.... all this stuff happens.

[newjez]

A lot of ifs, but if Chinese growth is slowing, as it appears to be, that will affect Australian commodities, which may cause an Australian recession, which depending on its length, could affecting bubbling Australian house prices in 2022, 2023.

Keep a strong eye on the Australian dollar. If it starts to fall against the USD, you may not want to throw your life savings into a property at the moment.

Lot of ifs there though. So eyes open, be careful. Read the small print on the mortgage, find out where you stand if prices do drop.

[NatalieB]

Thank you so much for all of the replies, they all have really good points to think about in them.

 

We are originally from Manchester but have lived in Lincolnshire for the last 10 years and we don't have much family around us but we are very happy here. I run the village post office and my husband has his construction business. We don't earn mega money at all but we live comfortably and have a good standard of living. After reading everyone's comments I am worried that we will not be able to continue this in Sydney.

 

I would not move to London if a job offer came up here because it is too expensive and too busy! I wouldn't mind living on the outskirts and this is what I was thinking we would do in Sydney but honestly, a couple of million for a house?! How do people afford it?!!? My husband has been offered a job as a skilled worker on a 186 visa with the potential for promotion if all goes well but to start with we will just be earning a normal salary (comparative to what he earns here but I'm thinking not enough to live in Sydney!) I don't have any qualifications and would sell my business before we move so I would be looking for admin / shop work until I decided exactly what work I wanted to do.

 

Part of me thinks, its a permanent visa, just go and it will all work out in the end! and the other (main!) part of me thinks we would be absolutely crazy to give up our businesses and house here to go to the other side of the world and struggle financially, never be able to buy or if we did then be in millions of dollars of debt! My husband is 44 so we would have to get a mortgage over a shorter term to ensure it was paid off for retirement.

 

Its really interesting to read about the commutes from further out / long drives to the coast and the massive effect this would have on lifestyle, lets be honest, some of the main attractions of Australia are the beach, weather and lifestyle so if 'the simple things' in life are hard work then it sounds more of a nightmare than a dream!

 

You have all given me lots to think about and as sad as it makes me (because I love a good adventure and the thought of moving to Australia really fills me with glee!!) I think it more than likely wont happen due to house prices :-(  

 

Thank you very much though, a really helpful and informative forum :-)

[Marisawright]

36 minutes ago, NatalieB said:

I would not move to London if a job offer came up here because it is too expensive and too busy!

In that case think carefully.  Sydney isn't London by a long shot, but it is expensive and it is busy.  

36 minutes ago, NatalieB said:

Part of me thinks, its a permanent visa, just go and it will all work out in the end! and the other (main!) part of me thinks we would be absolutely crazy to give up our businesses and house here to go to the other side of the world and struggle financially, never be able to buy or if we did then be in millions of dollars of debt!My husband is 44...

That makes it very tough, because this would be your last chance of getting a visa.  The maximum allowed age is 45.  

If beach and a "laidback Aussie lifestyle" are what you're looking for, then you're not going to find it in Sydney.  Sydney is not laid back - it's  a "work hard, play hard" culture.  People, especially managers, are expected to work long hours, and then you've got a long commute home.  Expect not to see much of your husband, especially in construction - they often work Saturdays too.

As for the beach - all beachside suburbs are expensive. There is a reason why the demographic centre of Sydney (i.e. where most Sydney residents live) is around Parramatta, which is far to the west of the city.   Plus you may not be aware that there's stamp duty to be paid on top of the purchase price - on a million dollar home, that's another $40,000.

You could see it as a stepping stone - grit your teeth and get through a couple of years renting in Sydney and then your husband can look for another job somewhere more affordable.  You've got to think about having to move twice would affect the children's education though.  Sadly, once you have kids, it's much harder to have adventures!

Edited September 1, 2021 by Marisawright

[Toots]

I'm of the mind that if you have a comfortable, secure life in the UK think very long and hard before migrating to Australia especially if you have children.  It's a gamble but if you are prepared for that it could also be a great adventure.

My husband spent years in the construction industry.  It's either boom or bust.  We lived in Perth (WA) for a few years and Sydney for about 30 years   .................  bought a house in a nice neighbourhood before the prices went crazy and were very happy there.

This recent article might be of some interest.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/construction-boom-bust-australia-homebuilder  and it will all depend entirely on what sort of work your husband does in the construction industry.

[ramot]

3 hours ago, can1983 said:

having been a landlord from afar in the past whilst it seems on paper to make sense the reality, at least for me, was far more complex. What do you do if something needs fixing? Ring a plumber in another state youve never been to? who is going to manage it (most agents I've had have been utterly useless)? whos going to repair it after its been turned into a cannabis factory.... all this stuff happens.

Have to post an opposite point of view. We have been renting out  property from long distance overseas for about 30 years, and still do. We have never had a problem. You must employ good managers to take all the problems off your shoulders, and get 3 monthly property inspections. It is impractical to try and do it yourself. Yes there are always horror stories, but choose your area and agent carefully, and you have a good chance of a successful investment.

[Marisawright]

4 minutes ago, ramot said:

Have to post an opposite point of view. We have been renting out  property from long distance overseas for about 30 years, and still do. We have never had a problem. You must employ good managers to take all the problems off your shoulders, and get 3 monthly property inspections. It is impractical to try and do it yourself. Yes there are always horror stories, but choose your area and agent carefully, and you have a good chance of a successful investment.

I agree, same experience. The real question is whether the OP would be happy renting 

[Ken]

I just looked up some comparable stats - and yes Sydney really is expensive.

The Average price for a house in Sydney is apparently now $1,410,133 whereas the average price for a house in London is only £510,299 (a bargain $962,828 at current exchange rate) so an extra 46.5% to pay - and that's only if you are moving from the most expensive part of the UK. If you are moving from somewhere in the UK where the average house price is cheaper than the average London house price the difference is even greater.

This is of course just comparing an average price with an average price and doesn't take into account the differences between these average properties.

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, can1983 said:

having been a landlord from afar in the past whilst it seems on paper to make sense the reality, at least for me, was far more complex. What do you do if something needs fixing? Ring a plumber in another state youve never been to? who is going to manage it (most agents I've had have been utterly useless)? whos going to repair it after its been turned into a cannabis factory.... all this stuff happens.

Our experience fully. Our property management has been less than forthcoming requiring 'reminding' (most likely because abroad) on a host of things. As for repairs, top Euro's on most call outs . Fine if have a relative to keep an eye on things (if agree) but going alone from other side of world has been shown to have difficulties. But still a steady income in another currency is no bad thing. Pay tax in that country as well so only have to declare the income and claim for costs. It is hard to know, almost impossible if drugs are being produced or used. I 'd suggest far worse things than cannabis though. 

[Blue Flu]

2 minutes ago, Ken said:

I just looked up some comparable stats - and yes Sydney really is expensive.

The Average price for a house in Sydney is apparently now $1,410,133 whereas the average price for a house in London is only £510,299 (a bargain $962,828 at current exchange rate) so an extra 46.5% to pay - and that's only if you are moving from the most expensive part of the UK. If you are moving from somewhere in the UK where the average house price is cheaper than the average London house price the difference is even greater.

This is of course just comparing an average price with an average price and doesn't take into account the differences between these average properties.

Probably best to wait a bit and see what happens when interest rates rise . Sydney as you say is seriously overpriced and while of course can be compared to London , is not the Alpha City London is . I recall in 1989 when living in London, a well heeled French couple , where considering options to move to Sydney, due to its compared 'cheapness'., plus location wise could afford harbour views in exchange for the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea. 

[Blue Flu]

15 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I agree, same experience. The real question is whether the OP would be happy renting 

I suspect very hit and miss. Also a lot is likely going 'undetected ' if my inner city area is anything to compare with. I've reported illegal activities taking place to property management companies, but places pass the muster test at time of inspection. They have actually showed me photos. Professional cleaners usually appear to be used prior to inspections. It would take an explosion or criminal damage to bring thinking into line. 

[Parley]

We've been hearing for years and years that property prices are going to correct. For many reasons.

It hasn't happened. Demand is always there.

[rammygirl]

You would need at least three times in dollars as he earns in pounds maybe more to have the same standard of living.  So £50k would mean $150k plus super minimum. 

[Paul1Perth]

16 hours ago, NatalieB said:

We are looking at a move to Sydney as my hubby has been offered sponsorship from a construction company based in the cbd.

We are a family of 4 (we have 2 boys age 11 and 12 years) and currently live in a village in Lincolnshire, uk.

As we aren’t able to come over to do a reccy I am trying to research as much as possible online.

Rental properties are expensive but they are here in the uk too so no deal breaker but I can’t seem to find any houses for sale in or around Sydney for a reasonable price. Most of them are auction (I can’t see a guide price anywhere on the adverts) or they are millions of dollars…..

 

how do people afford to buy in Sydney? We can’t rent forever, we would like to retire one day and not have to worry about paying rent / mortgage!

 

am I panicking about nothing or am I seeing things as they are?

 

any help or advice would be much appreciated!!

 

thank you, Natalie

Auctions seem to be the way to go over East. That in itself drives prices up, it's like a feeding frenzy.

If you're moving from a small village in Lincolnshire they will seem really expensive.

I wouldn't panic, once you're here you can have a good look around areas you might like.

We came without having been here before, came to Perth mind you, where houses are a lot cheaper and not that many auctions. I'd still come if you're all behind it.

[Paul1Perth]

4 hours ago, NatalieB said:

Thank you so much for all of the replies, they all have really good points to think about in them.

 

We are originally from Manchester but have lived in Lincolnshire for the last 10 years and we don't have much family around us but we are very happy here. I run the village post office and my husband has his construction business. We don't earn mega money at all but we live comfortably and have a good standard of living. After reading everyone's comments I am worried that we will not be able to continue this in Sydney.

 

I would not move to London if a job offer came up here because it is too expensive and too busy! I wouldn't mind living on the outskirts and this is what I was thinking we would do in Sydney but honestly, a couple of million for a house?! How do people afford it?!!? My husband has been offered a job as a skilled worker on a 186 visa with the potential for promotion if all goes well but to start with we will just be earning a normal salary (comparative to what he earns here but I'm thinking not enough to live in Sydney!) I don't have any qualifications and would sell my business before we move so I would be looking for admin / shop work until I decided exactly what work I wanted to do.

 

Part of me thinks, its a permanent visa, just go and it will all work out in the end! and the other (main!) part of me thinks we would be absolutely crazy to give up our businesses and house here to go to the other side of the world and struggle financially, never be able to buy or if we did then be in millions of dollars of debt! My husband is 44 so we would have to get a mortgage over a shorter term to ensure it was paid off for retirement.

 

Its really interesting to read about the commutes from further out / long drives to the coast and the massive effect this would have on lifestyle, lets be honest, some of the main attractions of Australia are the beach, weather and lifestyle so if 'the simple things' in life are hard work then it sounds more of a nightmare than a dream!

 

You have all given me lots to think about and as sad as it makes me (because I love a good adventure and the thought of moving to Australia really fills me with glee!!) I think it more than likely wont happen due to house prices

 

Thank you very much though, a really helpful and informative forum

Yep, the beach, weather and lifestyle were the reasons we came. When we said we wanted to come to Perth the agencies I was going through told me I needed to go to Sydney or Melbourne as that was where the jobs were. We ignored them as they were too expensive and busy then, that was 1992. 

We live about 1.5km from a glorious beach, in a nice 4x2, lovely suburb. I wouldn't want to live in West Sydney. 

Sydney is a beautiful City though, I've been lucky enough to work there and seen plenty of it. The places I'd have to live for an equivalent lifestyle would be something like living 1.5km from Manly beach. That would be millions.

Can't come to Perth can you?

[Quoll]

Your husband's age isn't going to help much - at 45 people are thinking about enhancing  their super as they know they're going to need a decent size super pot for a comfortable retirement. If you're working on getting rid of a million dollar mortgage you're going to struggle to put away just that little bit more in super. If the salary they are going to be offering him is around the $200-250k pa then you might be able to do it all and be comfortable but you aren't going to be able to bring in much with no qualifications.  Not going to be an easy decision is it - but I do tend to be of the mind that if it ain't broke don't fix it and unless you have a stupendous offer, not to be missed, then think carefully.  

The other thing you said was that you thought you might live on the outskirts like you would do if the work was in London - probably not! Sydney is much more spread out and even the outskirts aren't friendly little bucolic places. It's similar to London in many ways - the busy frenetic built up city - but quite dissimilar in others, the countryside is not on the edge. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Quoll

[NatalieB]

Thanks again all, many more helpful comments that I am very grateful for

We have just emailed the company that offered the sponsorship, thanked them for the offer but advised that we simply cant afford to move to Sydney

We are very lucky though, we have a great life here and we can just visit Aus in the future

 

Thanks again for all your help and advice