Jim Tilley Passed Away - Chairman British Pensions in Australia (BPiA)

[Andrew from Vista Financial]

The chairman of the British Pensions in Australia (BPiA) organisation, James (“Jim”) Tilley has died in Sydney. He was 83. He will be remembered as a fiercely committed champion of British expats penalised by the UK’s frozen pensions policy.

Full story here:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/champion-of-british-expats-battled-for-improved-pensions-rights-20210823-p58l3c.html

 

I know that although unsuccesful in his bid he has helped many UK expats understand their entitlements and make top up payments if appropriate.

RIP Jim.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Andrew from Vista Financial

[Alan Collett]

That's sad news.

Jim was a passionate advocate for the rights of those who had paid NI contributions all their life, only to see their UK State pension entitlement frozen when they moved to Australia.

RIP Jim.

Best regards.

[letmeinsoon]

I've written to the UK all party committee on this matter. It's beyond time the UK Government agreed a state security agreement 

On 25/08/2021 at 22:26, Andrew from Vista Financial said:

The chairman of the British Pensions in Australia (BPiA) organisation, James (“Jim”) Tilley has died in Sydney. He was 83. He will be remembered as a fiercely committed champion of British expats penalised by the UK’s frozen pensions policy.

Full story here:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/champion-of-british-expats-battled-for-improved-pensions-rights-20210823-p58l3c.html

 

I know that although unsuccesful in his bid he has helped many UK expats understand their entitlements and make top up payments if appropriate.

RIP Jim.

Andrew,

Do you have any contacts in BPiA - particularly those dealing with the 'state security agreement' or 'UK National Insurance contributions / state pensions'?

It seems to me that the Australian Trade Minister (Dan Tehan) has about six months to demand the inclusion of a state security agreement inside the coming Free Trade Agreement (which is not a done deal by a long shot - thank you Liz Truss). We know from the published agreement in principle (AiP) regarding the FTA that the age a young worker can now work for 3 years in Australia or the UK - for the UK, that may mean the years a young person pays their NI payments to the UK Government on the proviso they would return to the UK, would result in the payments benefitting other UK pensioners onshore, or worse, in the USA or Philippines. I believe there's a legal case to be squared at the Government, the consideration being expat pensioners who now live in the Philippines or the US are awarded an 'unfrozen' (i.e. full) state pension.

I note the Canadian minister who recently attempted to mediate a state security agreement with the UK failed. However - they were not negotiating a trade agreement. There's strong interest from Australia in agreeing a state security.

[Ken]

On 08/09/2021 at 23:04, letmeinsoon said:

I've written to the UK all party committee on this matter. It's beyond time the UK Government agreed a state security agreement 

Andrew,

Do you have any contacts in BPiA - particularly those dealing with the 'state security agreement' or 'UK National Insurance contributions / state pensions'?

It seems to me that the Australian Trade Minister (Dan Tehan) has about six months to demand the inclusion of a state security agreement inside the coming Free Trade Agreement (which is not a done deal by a long shot - thank you Liz Truss). We know from the published agreement in principle (AiP) regarding the FTA that the age a young worker can now work for 3 years in Australia or the UK - for the UK, that may mean the years a young person pays their NI payments to the UK Government on the proviso they would return to the UK, would result in the payments benefitting other UK pensioners onshore, or worse, in the USA or Philippines. I believe there's a legal case to be squared at the Government, the consideration being expat pensioners who now live in the Philippines or the US are awarded an 'unfrozen' (i.e. full) state pension.

I note the Canadian minister who recently attempted to mediate a state security agreement with the UK failed. However - they were not negotiating a trade agreement. There's strong interest from Australia in agreeing a state security.

I think you mean a social security agreement (Australia/ASIO already has a state security agreement with the UK via 5-eyes). However I'm not so sure that there is strong interest from Australia due to the cost to Australia this would entail. British pensioners would be better off but it's far from clear that the Australian tax payer would. 

The UK would insist on the Australian government providing more support to Australians in the UK in return for them providing more support to Britons in Australia. Somebody who worked for 20 years in the UK gets a UK old aged pension even if it is frozen. Somebody who worked for 20 years in Australia (and left Australia before being eligible to receive the pension) doesn't get a cent of Aged Pension from Australia even if their only income is social security.

[letmeinsoon]

On 12/09/2021 at 09:04, Ken said:

I think you mean a social security agreement (Australia/ASIO already has a state security agreement with the UK via 5-eyes). However I'm not so sure that there is strong interest from Australia due to the cost to Australia this would entail. British pensioners would be better off but it's far from clear that the Australian tax payer would. 

The UK would insist on the Australian government providing more support to Australians in the UK in return for them providing more support to Britons in Australia. Somebody who worked for 20 years in the UK gets a UK old aged pension even if it is frozen. Somebody who worked for 20 years in Australia (and left Australia before being eligible to receive the pension) doesn't get a cent of Aged Pension from Australia even if their only income is social security.

Hi Ken

Wow. If that's true, there's no hope of a reciprocal agreement!

[Parley]

On 12/09/2021 at 18:04, Ken said:

I think you mean a social security agreement (Australia/ASIO already has a state security agreement with the UK via 5-eyes). However I'm not so sure that there is strong interest from Australia due to the cost to Australia this would entail. British pensioners would be better off but it's far from clear that the Australian tax payer would. 

The UK would insist on the Australian government providing more support to Australians in the UK in return for them providing more support to Britons in Australia. Somebody who worked for 20 years in the UK gets a UK old aged pension even if it is frozen. Somebody who worked for 20 years in Australia (and left Australia before being eligible to receive the pension) doesn't get a cent of Aged Pension from Australia even if their only income is social security.

They would if they returned to Australia.

The benefit isn't a right. It is a welfare payment for those who really need help. I've worked here all my working life and probably won't get it either.

[Ken]

16 hours ago, Parley said:

They would if they returned to Australia.

The benefit isn't a right. It is a welfare payment for those who really need help. I've worked here all my working life and probably won't get it either.

And British pensioners would get all the increases to the old age pension if they returned to the UK. It's not any different except the UK government is more generous in that it at least makes some welfare payments to people overseas.

[Parley]

19 minutes ago, Ken said:

And British pensioners would get all the increases to the old age pension if they returned to the UK. It's not any different except the UK government is more generous in that it at least makes some welfare payments to people overseas.

The UK is hardly being generous. 

Australia has terminated the Agreement because the UK Government refuses to change its policy of not indexing pensions in Australia, even though it does index pensions paid in some countries with which it has Agreements.

The Australian Government has made considerable efforts over the last decade to get the UK to re-negotiate the Agreement to address the indexation problem but the UK has refused all our efforts.

[Ken]

Just now, Parley said:

The UK is hardly being generous. 

Australia has terminated the Agreement because the UK Government refuses to change its policy of not indexing pensions in Australia, even though it does index pensions paid in some countries with which it has Agreements.

The Australian Government has made considerable efforts over the last decade to get the UK to re-negotiate the Agreement to address the indexation problem but the UK has refused all our efforts.

I am sure that the British government is spending more on welfare payments to people in Australia than the Australian government is spending on welfare payments to people in the UK which means they are being generous.

If however the Australian government can prove otherwise then they really need to negotiate harder.

[Parley]

5 minutes ago, Ken said:

I am sure that the British government is spending more on welfare payments to people in Australia than the Australian government is spending on welfare payments to people in the UK which means they are being generous.

If however the Australian government can prove otherwise then they really need to negotiate harder.

Well that is obvious. A lot more people in the UK want to move to Australia than vice versa.