How much do you need to retire in Australia in 2021?

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I was thinking that too, @Marisawright but didn't want to come across the wrong way!  

I believe you own a property in Sydney and one in the south-east UK @MARYROSE02? Wouldn't it be better to sell your Sydney home off first and live in the UK one for a year or so, then sell that and return to Australia, to avoid a huge capital gains tax bill? 

I don’t think living in it for one year would negate all the previous capital gains

[Wanderer Returns]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I don’t think living in it for one year would negate all the previous capital gains

Hadn't thought of that  

[Paul1Perth]

On 17/09/2021 at 08:42, Wanderer Returns said:

I was thinking that too, @Marisawright but didn't want to come across the wrong way!  

I believe you own a property in Sydney and one in the south-east UK @MARYROSE02? Wouldn't it be better to sell your Sydney home off first and live in the UK one for a year or so, then sell that and return to Australia, to avoid a huge capite al gains tax bill? 

Nah, he'd have to return to the UK for a while to do that. Just sell the UK place, take the tax hit and he should have plenty to give him a lovely lifestyle. Most of what's good is free anyway.

[MARYROSE02]

59 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Nah, he'd have to return to the UK for a while to do that. Just sell the UK place, take the tax hit and he should have plenty to give him a lovely lifestyle. Most of what's good is free anyway.

Too late! It's sold unless the buyer changes their mind. I don't really want to go back to the UK.

Frighten me with the Capital Gains Tax hit?

[MARYROSE02]

On 16/09/2021 at 11:56, Marisawright said:

....and you're about to get a lump sum of cash when you sell your place in the UK.  Are you including a pension from your superannuation in that amount?  You sound like you're rolling in it, actually.

I've never thought of myself as rich! Sounds like I've undervalued my assets? Ever since I returned to Sydney in 2008 I have "half" struggled with intermittent casual part time work and some money from rent and a small pension. I whittled away at my cash and sold shares.

When I retired my extra pensions replaced the part time work. What's changed is realising I've got some super which I can treat as cash or draw as a pension  and the money from the house sale will be available soon.

I think it's more knowing the cash is there rather than wanting to splurge.  Nice to think I can buy business class without a second thought or pay for a holiday. 

[Red Rose]

Here is an alternative POV for this chat.

Work is better than retirement (including voluntary work)

It gives you purpose. You're continuing to use the grey matter. You have more social and human interaction working than not. It's proven to be better for your health than retirement. 

 

 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Too late! It's sold unless the buyer changes their mind. I don't really want to go back to the UK.

Frighten me with the Capital Gains Tax hit?

Congratulations, and remember, you won't pay any Capital Gains Tax unless you've made a profit. 

[Marisawright]

18 minutes ago, Red Rose said:

Here is an alternative POV for this chat.

Work is better than retirement (including voluntary work)

It gives you purpose. You're continuing to use the grey matter. You have more social and human interaction working than not. It's proven to be better for your health than retirement. 

That is very true.  It's something I've struggled with ever since I retired.

[Wanderer Returns]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

That is very true.  It's something I've struggled with ever since I retired.

Surprising - you come across as quite content in your world 

[ramot]

2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Too late! It's sold unless the buyer changes their mind. I don't really want to go back to the UK.

Frighten me with the Capital Gains Tax hit?

 

2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Too late! It's sold unless the buyer changes their mind. I don't really want to go back to the UK.

Frighten me with the Capital Gains Tax hit?

M R I’m sure you know, but I’m fairly sure you have to register your house sale in UK within 30 days as a non resident, not sure of the exact details so Hope this information is correct, so please check. Think it’s to do with capital gains? 

Edited September 18, 2021 by ramot

[MARYROSE02]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Congratulations, and remember, you won't pay any Capital Gains Tax unless you've made a profit. 

I think I've made 75 percent on the original price though I was living in the house for a while after I bought it if that affects CGT?

It was the right time to sell.  I'm not going back to UK to live. 

[MARYROSE02]

40 minutes ago, ramot said:

 

M R I’m sure you know, but I’m fairly sure you have to register your house sale in UK within 30 days as a non resident, not sure of the exact details so Hope this information is correct, so please check. Think it’s to do with capital gains? 

I didn't know that.  I might ring HMRC on Monday if I can't find the information. I've never used a tax agent for my UK return.  Maybe I should?

[MARYROSE02]

2 hours ago, Red Rose said:

Here is an alternative POV for this chat.

Work is better than retirement (including voluntary work)

It gives you purpose. You're continuing to use the grey matter. You have more social and human interaction working than not. It's proven to be better for your health than retirement. 

 

 

So far, I don't have the slightest desire  to return to work. I'm not bored. I learn Japanese, doing some every day. I study on and off with the Open Uni. I don't feel the slightest guilt about no longer working.

By contrast, up until a couple of years ago I DID feel guilty about not working and I felt a lack of purpose when I was out of work. I used to envy people I'd see out on their lunch breaks from the office.

I also used to work some insane hours back in the 1990s and I look back on those years with a feeling of regret rather than pride and working those hours probably had a far worse effect on my health than not working at all. I couldn't cope with my workload and as I thought it was my fault I worked back to try to get on tip of it but I couldn't and I was too lacking in confidence to protest about it.

Now I've swapped the 6 - 1, 6 - 1, routine for 0 - 7, 0 - 7 and I live guilt-free, and every day is Saturday.

[ramot]

1 hour ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I didn't know that.  I might ring HMRC on Monday if I can't find the information. I've never used a tax agent for my UK return.  Maybe I should?

Google selling a UK house as a non resident.

You must inform HMRC within 30 days of the sale. 

[tea4too]

15 minutes ago, ramot said:

Google selling a UK house as a non resident.

You must inform HMRC within 30 days of the sale. 

"You may have to pay tax when you sell ('dispose of') your UK home even if you're not a UK resident for tax purposes. Even if you have no tax to pay, you must tell HMRC you've sold the property within 30 days of transferring ownership..."

 The Gov.UK  link provides more information . Tx

https://www.gov.uk/tax-live-abroad-sell-uk-home

[MARYROSE02]

5 hours ago, tea4too said:

"You may have to pay tax when you sell ('dispose of') your UK home even if you're not a UK resident for tax purposes. Even if you have no tax to pay, you must tell HMRC you've sold the property within 30 days of transferring ownership..."

 The Gov.UK  link provides more information . Tx

https://www.gov.uk/tax-live-abroad-sell-uk-home

Thanks. I just had a quick look lying in bed at HMRC calculator but I need to pull a few figures out before completing it. I've not actually exchanged contracts on the house yet and i want to do my 2021 tax return too. So I have a bit of time before the 30 days starts. 

[Wanderer Returns]

12 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I didn't know that.  I might ring HMRC on Monday if I can't find the information. I've never used a tax agent for my UK return.  Maybe I should?

@MARYROSE02 you don't need to ring the HMRC, or use a tax agent. You can complete the Capital Gains tax return online - it's quite straightforward.

Non-resident: Report and pay Capital Gains Tax on UK Property or Land

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/NRCGT_Return

[Wanderer Returns]

13 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I think I've made 75 percent on the original price though I was living in the house for a while after I bought it if that affects CGT?

It was the right time to sell.  I'm not going back to UK to live. 

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that you'll only need to pay CGT on the gains made from 6 April 2015, when the law was changed.

Capital Gains Tax rules for British expats and non-UK residents with a UK property

The rule, which came into effect on April 6, 2015, particularly affects British expats and non-UK residents with UK property interests, and especially those with buy-to-let agreements which generate an annual income.

While it is possible to be assessed for CGT on the original value of the residential property, you may elect to have the gain assessed on the 5 April 2015 market value of the property if owned before this date.

Hence CGT will be calculated on the value of the property on the day prior to the introduction of the new tax rule for non-residents from the start of the 2015/16 tax year.

Where possible, therefore, it is recommended that you seek a professional opinion on the property value as at 5 April 2015 to establish an accurate understanding of the gain/loss made from this date to date of sale.

Source: https://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-tax/capital-gains-tax-for-british-expats/#:~:text=UK Capital Gains Tax rates,persons the rate is 28%.

[ramot]

28 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that you'll only need to pay CGT on the gains made from 6 April 2015, when the law was changed.

Capital Gains Tax rules for British expats and non-UK residents with a UK property

The rule, which came into effect on April 6, 2015, particularly affects British expats and non-UK residents with UK property interests, and especially those with buy-to-let agreements which generate an annual income.

While it is possible to be assessed for CGT on the original value of the residential property, you may elect to have the gain assessed on the 5 April 2015 market value of the property if owned before this date.

Hence CGT will be calculated on the value of the property on the day prior to the introduction of the new tax rule for non-residents from the start of the 2015/16 tax year.

Where possible, therefore, it is recommended that you seek a professional opinion on the property value as at 5 April 2015 to establish an accurate understanding of the gain/loss made from this date to date of sale.

Source: https://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-tax/capital-gains-tax-for-british-expats/#:~:text=UK Capital Gains Tax rates,persons the rate is 28%.

We had our UK properties valued in 2015, as we knew this. so if I am correct we should only be charged for the capital gains since that date, and as they are in both our names, the amount is split?  I don’t know how the CGT will be assessed if a property wasn’t valued in 2015, but hope the value of the house can be assessed back to it’s  2015 value, and that you aren’t faced with a large bill M R.

Edited September 18, 2021 by ramot

[MARYROSE02]

10 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

@MARYROSE02 you don't need to ring the HMRC, or use a tax agent. You can complete the Capital Gains tax return online - it's quite straightforward.

Non-resident: Report and pay Capital Gains Tax on UK Property or Land

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/NRCGT_Return

I already do my returns on line but I accrued a 1200 quid penalty for late submission (not entirely my fault) and I was thinking of getting a UK TA.

Then I rang HMRC the other night and very nice lady cancelled all my pens on the spot.  So I might do the CGT myself.  That will be in the 21/22 ITR?

[Wanderer Returns]

11 hours ago, ramot said:

We had our UK properties valued in 2015, as we knew this. so if I am correct we should only be charged for the capital gains since that date, and as they are in both our names, the amount is split?  I don’t know how the CGT will be assessed if a property wasn’t valued in 2015, but hope the value of the house can be assessed back to it’s  2015 value, and that you aren’t faced with a large bill M R.

It states that the owner can use the purchase price of the property, but clearly that isn't in their interest if they've owned it for a long time.

[Paul1Perth]

On 18/09/2021 at 15:15, Red Rose said:

Here is an alternative POV for this chat.

Work is better than retirement (including voluntary work)

It gives you purpose. You're continuing to use the grey matter. You have more social and human interaction working than not. It's proven to be better for your health than retirement. 

 

 

Personally I'm loving retirement, my wife retired too a few weeks ago, she loves it.

I think you need a good group of friends and a routine though. My wife is down the beach this morning for 7:30 yoga, it's really nice weather today so I'll go to the gym then meet her down the beach later. Maybe take the surf ski or paddle board out. Played golf yesterday, after a ski paddle in the morning with friends.

Because we're still members of a surf club and live very close there's always someone organising something. Mostly free, my wife pays a little bit for yoga but she goes training and swimming with a group and the coach that organises that doesn't charge anything. They just say they are doing the session anyway, come if you want.

A few of the guys I played golf with yesterday are retired. Most ex Woodside FIFO workers, retired early (well a lot earlier than me at 66) and they all have a big group of friends and things to do.

It was strange listening to them chat after about FIFO swings. The swings keep changing, my son and the younger ones are on 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. The older guys used to do 2 on 2 off then get the odd 4 week off. They said they preffered that as 3 weeks didn't give you long enough to have a proper holiday.

It's a different world to normal workers that have to save up for their one summer family holiday a year.

I think if your social life was more involved with work and work colleagues then it would be tougher to retire. You'd lose touch, be out of the loop and possibly wouldn't be able to enjoy the chat when you did catch up. My work mates and social mates were totally different, there is one friend from work I see socially the others were more interested in computers and gaming. Now I've retired I have zero interest in that.

[Wanderer Returns]

On 18/09/2021 at 17:15, Red Rose said:

Here is an alternative POV for this chat.

Work is better than retirement (including voluntary work)

It gives you purpose. You're continuing to use the grey matter. You have more social and human interaction working than not. It's proven to be better for your health than retirement. 

 

On 21/09/2021 at 10:15, Paul1Perth said:

Personally I'm loving retirement, my wife retired too a few weeks ago, she loves it.

I think you need a good group of friends and a routine though. My wife is down the beach this morning for 7:30 yoga, it's really nice weather today so I'll go to the gym then meet her down the beach later. Maybe take the surf ski or paddle board out. Played golf yesterday, after a ski paddle in the morning with friends.

Because we're still members of a surf club and live very close there's always someone organising something. Mostly free, my wife pays a little bit for yoga but she goes training and swimming with a group and the coach that organises that doesn't charge anything. They just say they are doing the session anyway, come if you want.

A few of the guys I played golf with yesterday are retired. Most ex Woodside FIFO workers, retired early (well a lot earlier than me at 66) and they all have a big group of friends and things to do.

It was strange listening to them chat after about FIFO swings. The swings keep changing, my son and the younger ones are on 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. The older guys used to do 2 on 2 off then get the odd 4 week off. They said they preffered that as 3 weeks didn't give you long enough to have a proper holiday.

It's a different world to normal workers that have to save up for their one summer family holiday a year.

I think if your social life was more involved with work and work colleagues then it would be tougher to retire. You'd lose touch, be out of the loop and possibly wouldn't be able to enjoy the chat when you did catch up. My work mates and social mates were totally different, there is one friend from work I see socially the others were more interested in computers and gaming. Now I've retired I have zero interest in that.

I can appreciate both these viewpoints. @Paul1Perth you are clearly working hard at enjoying yourself, and getting the most out of your retirement - hats off to you! However, I think a lot of people struggle to make the transition from working life to being fully-retired quite as effectively as you have. As @Red Rose has stated there are a lot of benefits to working or volunteering, and for me I know I would be happy to work part-time should I still be in good health in my 60s. Being a teacher, I quite enjoy the social aspect of the job - and the naughty kids keep us on our toes! That said, there's a big between working because you need the money, and doing a job you really enjoy - with the benefits of getting paid for it  

[rammygirl]

I have been retired for a while now, or should I say not working as I don’t yet draw a pension. I don’t know how I had time to work to be honest. I did do it gradually by going part time first.  I recommend this transition if you can do it.

My husband is transitioning now but isn’t good without structure and likes to have things to do all the time. He is learning to relax and enjoy reading a book during the day though!

I think everyone copes differently and having some financial security certainly helps.

We both do voluntary work as and when, using our skills to pay back to the community and find this very rewarding in many ways. 

[Paul1Perth]

11 minutes ago, rammygirl said:

I have been retired for a while now, or should I say not working as I don’t yet draw a pension. I don’t know how I had time to work to be honest. I did do it gradually by going part time first.  I recommend this transition if you can do it.

My husband is transitioning now but isn’t good without structure and likes to have things to do all the time. He is learning to relax and enjoy reading a book during the day though!

I think everyone copes differently and having some financial security certainly helps.

We both do voluntary work as and when, using our skills to pay back to the community and find this very rewarding in many ways. 

My wife said she didn't know how she had time to work a couple of days ago.

I guess I do volunteer on patrols at the surf club. Not what I'd call work though, being down the beach looking out for people who might be in difficulty. Nice feeling when you do get to help mind you, happened a few times.

Patrols start this weekend.