Considering Parents visa - its daunting!

[Hamish]

Hi there,

I'm a newbie on here and I'm sure this has been asked a zillion times, but here goes...

We are retired, mid 60's, living in Spain and looking to emigrate to be with our Permanent Citizen son in OZ,  who would be our sponsor.

The Contributory Parent Visa was our choice but looking at the latest threads re the possibility of  caps being lowered and possible price rises, not to say the possible increase of the current 5 year application and issue times, its looking less likely of us ever being able to get there.

 So a couple of questions...

Are there any other options or routes we could consider? Visiting ( when allowed) for longer periods of time?

Other types of linked visas that would  ultimately get us there?

Would we be better paying for / consulting an agent?

Is there a benefit of applying on shore as to off shore?

Any thoughts or suggestions please?

Thanks in advance.......................

 

 

[Marisawright]

52 minutes ago, Hamish said:

The Contributory Parent Visa was our choice but looking at the latest threads re the possibility of  caps being lowered and possible price rises, not to say the possible increase of the current 5 year application and issue times, its looking less likely of us ever being able to get there.

The bad news is that it wouldn't be 5 years for you.  Visas that are being processed now have taken 5 years to get to the front of the queue (i.e. they applied in 2015).  That's the figure that's quoted on the government website.  However it's highly misleading, because the queue has got MUCH longer since then.

If you apply tomorrow, you'll be waiting at least 10 years before you stand any chance of being awarded the visa.

There is no better option for a permanent move.  Once the borders reopen, there is nothing to stop you visiting every year on a tourist visa for 3 to 6 months.  There are also temporary parent visas but I can't help you with those. 

As for applying onshore:  in normal times, you could come to Australia on a tourist visa, and then apply for a parent visa once you're onshore. You'd then get a bridging visa that would allow you to stay in Australia until the parent visa is granted.  It sounds too good to be true, but that's because it is.  While you're on a bridging visa, you're in limbo.  You cease to be a legal resident of your previous country, but yet you're not a permanent resident of Australia. For you, coming from Spain, that means no access to Medicare (the Australian equivalent of the NHS) or any aged care or other benefits.  You won't be allowed to work. You can't leave Australia without applying for special permission.  If you want to buy a home, you'll be treated as a foreign investor, have to apply for special permission, and pay a hefty surcharge on the purchase price.   Essentially, it can be done, but you will need deep pockets.  

It's a sad situation but the problem is that the Australian government did a research project a few years ago, and discovered that parents of migrants were costing them thousands of dollars in medical bills and aged care every year.  The fees on the Contributory Parent Visa are supposed to pay for that, but they would need to be more than triple to come close to covering the cost. Trying to fix the parent visa system is too hard so they've just gone on a go-slow instead.

[Hamish]

Thanks Marisawright,

For your honest reply.

Just one point I'd like to clarify.

If I were to move my residency  back to the UK ( meaning I would be a fiscal resident in the UK ) and ''apply'' would the Medicare issue be the same ?

 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Hamish said:

 

If I were to move my residency  back to the UK ( meaning I would be a fiscal resident in the UK ) and ''apply'' would the Medicare issue be the same ?

 

Yes.  The rule for Medicare is that you must be a permanent legal resident of the UK immediately before you arrive in Australia.  That would mean a genuine return to the UK and making your domicile there for a reasonable period before you make the move.  I'm not sure how long is long enough!  However,since there's little prospect you'll be allowed to even get a visitor visa until some time next year, you've got time to do that I guess.

[VERYSTORMY]

15 hours ago, Hamish said:

Thanks Marisawright,

For your honest reply.

Just one point I'd like to clarify.

If I were to move my residency  back to the UK ( meaning I would be a fiscal resident in the UK ) and ''apply'' would the Medicare issue be the same ?

 

Just be aware there are other significant issues with being in limbo for a decade. For example, on a bridging visa if you were resident in the UK you would be eligible for reciprocal healthcare. However, that is not the same as full access to Medicare. 

[Raul Senise]

On 17/08/2021 at 21:34, Marisawright said:

As for applying onshore:  in normal times, you could come to Australia on a tourist visa, and then apply for a parent visa once you're onshore. You'd then get a bridging visa that would allow you to stay in Australia until the parent visa is granted. 

Be mindful that onshore parent visa lodgments are limited by age and not available to everyone. 

[wrussell]

If you have enough money you can buy a visa and have priority processing.

 

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, wrussell said:

If you have enough money you can buy a visa and have priority processing.

 

Surely, with parent visas, "priority" isn't worth much? Or are you talking about another kind of visa altogether?

[wrussell]

I was not thinking about a parent visa. If you have a lazy few million, you can travel first class all the way.

[Bobths]

On 18/08/2021 at 14:54, VERYSTORMY said:

Just be aware there are other significant issues with being in limbo for a decade. For example, on a bridging visa if you were resident in the UK you would be eligible for reciprocal healthcare. However, that is not the same as full access to Medicare. 

Please could you tell me how reciprocal Medicare cover differs from "full access" to Medicare? My parents and I are tossing up between the 864 and 804 and Medicare is the main sticking point, along with the difference in fees. My parents are retired, have no need to work, over 65, meet the balance of family test as my only bro lives in NZ, will apply onshore and will live with us so they don't need to purchase property. As far as I understand it, they just won't be able to get elective procedures done - necessary treatment and medications will still be available to them under the reciprocal agreement. TIA.

[Marisawright]

36 minutes ago, Bobths said:

Please could you tell me how reciprocal Medicare cover differs from "full access" to Medicare? My parents and I are tossing up between the 864 and 804 and Medicare is the main sticking point, along with the difference in fees. My parents are retired, have no need to work, over 65, meet the balance of family test as my only bro lives in NZ, will apply onshore and will live with us so they don't need to purchase property. As far as I understand it, they just won't be able to get elective procedures done - necessary treatment and medications will still be available to them under the reciprocal agreement. TIA.

I took a look at one of your earlier posts which mentioned your parents lived in France. Is that still the case?  If it is, then they're not eligible for reciprocal Medicare.  It's not citizenship that determines eligibility, it's country of residence. There is no agreement with France, so they'd get nothing.

Assuming they are eligible, what it covers is debatable.  Officially, if you're on reciprocal Medicare, if a procedure isn't urgent, it's not covered - you're meant to fly back to your home country to get it done. Unofficially, people on reciprocal Medicare get procedures done all the time. However, I think it's very likely that won't continue to be the case in future.  Just look at the NHS - there were always rules about treating overseas visitors but nobody bothered much ten years ago.  Today, there are strict rules which are applied much more diligently.  Since you're looking at a very long timeframe, I wouldn't be banking on the reciprocal scheme continuing to be so lenient for the long haul.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Marisawright

[Bobths]

46 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I took a look at one of your earlier posts which mentioned your parents lived in France. Is that still the case?  If it is, then they're not eligible for reciprocal Medicare.  It's not citizenship that determines eligibility, it's country of residence. There is no agreement with France, so they'd get nothing.

Assuming they are eligible, what it covers is debatable.  Officially, if you're on reciprocal Medicare, if a procedure isn't urgent, it's not covered - you're meant to fly back to your home country to get it done. Unofficially, people on reciprocal Medicare get procedures done all the time. However, I think it's very likely that won't continue to be the case in future.  Just look at the NHS - there were always rules about treating overseas visitors but nobody bothered much ten years ago.  Today, there are strict rules which are applied much more diligently.  Since you're looking at a very long timeframe, I wouldn't be banking on the reciprocal scheme continuing to be so lenient for the long haul.

 

Thanks Marisa. My parents are in France currently (been waiting for all the travel restrictions to lift) but they are heading back to UK in a few weeks in order to get residency again for Medicare. They aren't planning on moving over here until 2023 I think as they are planning to come here in January for a holiday, then we want to go and visit them over there. I've checked my dad's medications are covered under the PBS so that's ok. My parents are nervous about the 'what ifs' so definitely trying to investigate those as much as possible - hence I'm looking at both the 804 and 864.

[Marisawright]

11 minutes ago, Bobths said:

Thanks Marisa. My parents are in France currently (been waiting for all the travel restrictions to lift) but they are heading back to UK in a few weeks in order to get residency again for Medicare. They aren't planning on moving over here until 2023 I think as they are planning to come here in January for a holiday, then we want to go and visit them over there. I've checked my dad's medications are covered under the PBS so that's ok. My parents are nervous about the 'what ifs' so definitely trying to investigate those as much as possible - hence I'm looking at both the 804 and 864.

I'd suggest not worrying about it too much, then.  A great deal can change between now and 2023, and they may find the options have narrowed considerably by the time 2023 rolls around. 

[Quoll]

43 minutes ago, Bobths said:

Thanks Marisa. My parents are in France currently (been waiting for all the travel restrictions to lift) but they are heading back to UK in a few weeks in order to get residency again for Medicare. They aren't planning on moving over here until 2023 I think as they are planning to come here in January for a holiday, then we want to go and visit them over there. I've checked my dad's medications are covered under the PBS so that's ok. My parents are nervous about the 'what ifs' so definitely trying to investigate those as much as possible - hence I'm looking at both the 804 and 864.

Why wait, get them on the offshore CPV list asap - you never know, they might not be able to get onshore and then apply, who knows what might change - it only takes a "no further stay" on whatever visa they may plan on getting to Australia on (then fibbing about their intentions, obviously) and they will be on the plane back home.  If you apply now they can still visit while waiting.

[Bobths]

48 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I'd suggest not worrying about it too much, then.  A great deal can change between now and 2023, and they may find the options have narrowed considerably by the time 2023 rolls around. 

 

16 minutes ago, Quoll said:

Why wait, get them on the offshore CPV list asap - you never know, they might not be able to get onshore and then apply, who knows what might change - it only takes a "no further stay" on whatever visa they may plan on getting to Australia on (then fibbing about their intentions, obviously) and they will be on the plane back home.  If you apply now they can still visit while waiting.

I've been badgering them to get in the offshore CPV visa queue for over 5 years - they wouldn't listen. Now they want to do it and the queue has blown out massively  And they're always the ones telling me I should plan ahead! We'll work it out, just giving me a massive headache now.

[Marisawright]

14 minutes ago, Bobths said:

I've been badgering them to get in the offshore CPV visa queue for over 5 years - they wouldn't listen. Now they want to do it and the queue has blown out massively  And they're always the ones telling me I should plan ahead! 

Well, perhaps they love their own life in France, with their own belongings, their own friends and their own lifestyle?   Would they really have decided to make the move if Covid hadn't happened and you'd been able to have your usual holidays?

In their shoes, I would not even consider moving back to the UK just to get the reciprocal Medicare.  Wouldn't it be awful to give up their life there, relocate to the UK where they don't really want to be, then find that the rules have changed and they don't have the option to migrate anyway?  

Don't get me wrong, a lot of grandparents move to Australia and are delighted they did, but I also have friends (I'm approaching 70) who wish they hadn't made the move, much though they love their grandkids.  It's a painful process to give up your own home and treasured possessions, and it's even more difficult if you have to live in someone else's home in Australia (even if it is your child's home and you love them!).  It's difficult to be a lodger if you've been used to having ownership of your own place for decades. Not to mention the loss of a social life (it can be difficult to make new friends at that age).  

Edited September 23, 2021 by Marisawright

[Bobths]

49 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Well, perhaps they love their own life in France, with their own belongings, their own friends and their own lifestyle?   Would they really have decided to make the move if Covid hadn't happened and you'd been able to have your usual holidays?

In their shoes, I would not even consider moving back to the UK just to get the reciprocal Medicare.  Wouldn't it be awful to give up their life there, relocate to the UK where they don't really want to be, then find that the rules have changed and they don't have the option to migrate anyway?  

Don't get me wrong, a lot of grandparents move to Australia and are delighted they did, but I also have friends (I'm approaching 70) who wish they hadn't made the move, much though they love their grandkids.  It's a painful process to give up your own home and treasured possessions, and it's even more difficult if you have to live in someone else's home in Australia (even if it is your child's home and you love them!).  It's difficult to be a lodger if you've been used to having ownership of your own place for decades. Not to mention the loss of a social life (it can be difficult to make new friends at that age).  

I'm sure we'll work it all out - we all used to live together in the UK (me, my husband and my parents) so that's one of the big positives, we're all looking forward to doing that again  The first thing is getting them out here on holiday, it's been a long 20 months. Fx the borders open and they can fly over in the NY.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Bobths said:

I'm sure we'll work it all out - we all used to live together in the UK (me, my husband and my parents) so that's one of the big positives, we're all looking forward to doing that again

Good to hear.  But my first point stands:  do not underestimate the likelihood that your parents might not be able to migrate at all, no matter how determined you are.  

Don't think it would never happen:  if you were an Aussie living in the UK, wanting to bring your parents over, you couldn't.  It's impossible, there isn't a visa any more (unless the parent is destitute and frail).  New Zealand closed its doors to parent visas for a while, too (though they are open again now).  

Even if parent visas continue, the onshore option may not.  Since the waiting time for parent visas blew out, more and more parents are taking the onshore option.  Their medical care under reciprocal agreements is costing the Australian taxpayer thousands of dollars.  Only one member of parliament has raised this issue so far, but I wonder how long it will be before the government takes action?  It will be very easy to stop:  the ability to place a "No Further Stay" condition on tourist and visitor visas already exists, and would stop the onshore route.

Finally, the government has previously tried to delete the 804 visa altogether, and their research shows that the fee for the 864 visa should be approximately three times higher than at present, to cover the cost to the taxpayer.

Although none of these things may come to pass, it would be foolish to close your eyes to the risks.  You want your parents to have a happy retirement.  I hope they will think very, very carefully about how they would feel if their "'temporary" move to the UK turns out to be permanent, because there is a fairly good chance it could.  

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Marisawright

[peter70]

any chance a change of government could bring more hope to those trying to reunite with aged parents?

 

[wrussell]

9 minutes ago, peter70 said:

any chance a change of government could bring more hope to those trying to reunite with aged parents?

Don't hold your breath!

 

[Tulip1]

43 minutes ago, peter70 said:

any chance a change of government could bring more hope to those trying to reunite with aged parents?

 

I very much doubt it.  Understandably, they  don’t want a load of aged people going there to live,.  They don’t have to offer such visas so we must be grateful they do albeit in smaller numbers these days. 

[Marisawright]

52 minutes ago, peter70 said:

any chance a change of government could bring more hope to those trying to reunite with aged parents?

 

Very unlikely.  The government did some research a few years ago which found that elderly parents were costing the taxpayer millions in medical care and end of life care.  The fees for the Contributory Parent Visa, which are meant to compensate for that cost, fall far short of doing so.  

Some would argue that if bringing their parents means a valuable migrant stays in Australia, then it's worth that cost - but the reality is that for every migrant who won't stay without their parents, there are plenty more who will happily live in Australia without them.  So there's no incentive for the government to be benevolent towards parents.  

I guess your only hope might be the trade agreement between Britain and Australia.  Currently, Australian parents can't get a visa to live with their family in the UK.  Perhaps if a concession was made there, there might be a reciprocal deal.  But I wouldn't hold your breath.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Marisawright

[Robert Dyson]

On 16/10/2021 at 17:12, peter70 said:

any chance a change of government could bring more hope to those trying to reunite with aged parents?

 

there is supposed to be some news this week regarding classification of parents of citizens or PRs as "immediate family" regarding the need for an entry exemption.  This may just be a temporary fix or a waiver to prioritise parental reunions over the business or study VISA holders getting entry.    However the PM announced this with no detail, so the Government website just refers you back to the PM's speech and says to wait for an announcement !

There is an election coming up fairly soon and the Morrison government may wish to do more to repair some of the criticism they have faced about the enforced separation of families...or maybe not.

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Robert Dyson

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Robert Dyson said:

there is supposed to be some news this week regarding classification of parents of citizens or PRs as "immediate family" regarding the need for an entry exemption.  This may just be a temporary fix or a waiver to prioritise parental reunions over the business or study VISA holders getting entry.    However the PM announced this with no detail, so the Government website just refers you back to the PM's speech and says to wait for an announcement !

There is an election coming up fairly soon and the Morrison government may wish to do more to repair some of the criticism they have faced about the enforced separation of families...or maybe not.

Parents on PR visas never needed a exemption because they hold a PR visa.  The exemption is for other parents wanting to visit, which means they're on a tourist or temporary parents' visa.  

Classing parents as immediate family for PR visa purposes would mean that every migrant could bring their partner, children and aged parents with them.  The burden on the taxpayer would be enormous.

What the government isn't considering, I fear, is the wave of parents who will arrive on tourist visas and then apply for a 804 onshore, creating a massive burden on the taxpayer anyway.

[Robert Dyson]

8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Parents on PR visas never needed a exemption because they hold a PR visa.  The exemption is for other parents wanting to visit, which means they're on a tourist or temporary parents' visa.  

Classing parents as immediate family for PR visa purposes would mean that every migrant could bring their partner, children and aged parents with them.  The burden on the taxpayer would be enormous.

What the government isn't considering, I fear, is the wave of parents who will arrive on tourist visas and then apply for a 804 onshore, creating a massive burden on the taxpayer anyway.

Yes, I meant parents of PR's and citizens. 

It will be interesting what they're considering to stop others using it as backdoor to future policy change....maybe making it retrospective but not for current or future applications.  I'd assume this is a direct response to those separated by the pandemic and would be time-limited.

Too right, I know loads, including me..anything to get them out of that godforsaken hole before it tanks any further...but i am sure that is under consideration.  They need to ensure people are self-funding pay for any healthcare and to get that signed up to formally.