Returning to the UK

[Paul1Perth]

On 05/07/2021 at 11:36, Rallyman said:

I was speaking about myself, we are all different. I run my own business here so it’s up to me what time I take off I am not restricted. 
Cost is not a factor to me either if I want to return I would under normal conditions, pre covid a flight could be had for around a $1000 bucks not having to be rolling in it to afford imho. 
 

We emigrated with a 2 year old, never been before, didn't know anyone, no jobs to come to, no idea what Perth would be like. Luckily we loved it from the start, mind you it was February so we left a very damp, cold Manchester airport and came to 30 degree days and clear blue skies.

By the time we'd re-established ourselves, got jobs, rented for nearly a year, saved enough for a mortgage, found a house and suburb we liked, started saving a bit again, it was 13 years before we had enough money to be able to go back for a holiday.

Luckily everyone wanted to come out here as soon as they could afford it and we had our own place.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

By the time we'd re-established ourselves, got jobs, rented for nearly a year, saved enough for a mortgage, found a house and suburb we liked, started saving a bit again, it was 13 years before we had enough money to be able to go back for a holiday.

I think Covid has highlighted the differences between migrants.   Some of us can go for years without visits home or visits from family.  When we left, we knew we would rarely see our families again.  That's just the way it was for most (though not all) migrants in the 60s/70s/80s.   Before I left, I worked in the office of a factory in Scotland. In the last few weeks as I handed out the pay packets and told people i was leaving, I discovered almost everyone had a family member in Australia.   Most of them hadn't seen each other for 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years.  

In the last 20 or 30 years, that has changed.  Air fares are cheaper compared to salaries, and everyone has got used to global travel.  Just look at holidays - Brits used to think it was an adventure going to Greece for a holiday, now (at least, preCovid) they'll jet off to the Dominican Republic or Bali just for a week or two. So more recent migrants came expecting to keep a foot in both camps - a better life in Australia plus frequent hops back and forth to be with family.

I think migrants who need a frequent family "fix" should be thinking twice about staying in Australia.  We're being warned that Covid is just the first of many pandemics, because of the press of population in developing countries.  We've still got unrest in the Middle East which is only going to get worse and could easily disrupt flights between Australia and the UK, or at the very least, make them very expensive as they have to make big detours. Then there's weather events.  It all makes an annual visit a bit of a lottery.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Marisawright

[Antipodista]

On 11/10/2021 at 14:36, Homesick1 said:

Did you make any decisions? I’d be keen to hear from anyone who returned with older kids, (mine are 12 & 19). 
I’ve been homesick off & on for 10 years so have now decided to head back with my husband & 2 kids. We sold out gorgeous Aussie home this weekend. I have wanted this for so long but now that it’s happening, the doubts are setting in big time! I left for a reason & I still believe that Aus has given my kids a better life but I miss so much about my old life. Plus, I’m worried about the political landscape in the UK at the mo. However, I’ve never felt at home in Aus & I constantly worry about my family not being around for much longer & I feel more disconnected from them with every passing year. It makes me sad that they barely know my kids & I am a wreck here at Christmas time. However, the thought of returning to UK pub / youth culture for my kids is giving me some serious regrets already! Will we ever be happy?!  

The youth culture here isn’t so bad. Of course there are issues in deprived areas but that’s true for Aus, too.

[Tulip1]

On 11/10/2021 at 14:36, Homesick1 said:

However, the thought of returning to UK pub / youth culture for my kids is giving me some serious regrets already!

I don’t think you have anything to worry about.  I have known a huge amount of kids and they’ve all turned into lovely adults.  My youngest is almost 21 and he and all his friends are happy and descent.  He loves going to the pub with his mates and there’s nothing wrong with a pub culture.  Like everything, when used correctly it brings much happiness.  I have older kids that live in Australia now and I doubt there’s any difference between them and their fellow Australian grown friends.  

[Cup Final 1973]

I think too much is made of the UK « pub culture » as though that’s all young people do.  Of course they go to the pub, but they also play sport, watch sport, go to the cinema, play music, listen to music, cycle, run……

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

I think too much is made of the UK « pub culture » as though that’s all young people do.  Of course they go to the pub, but they also play sport, watch sport, go to the cinema, play music, listen to music, cycle, run……

Yep. If anything more diversity in things to do in UK than Australia. Especially for those not totally absorbed by sport. 

[Paul1Perth]

6 hours ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

I think too much is made of the UK « pub culture » as though that’s all young people do.  Of course they go to the pub, but they also play sport, watch sport, go to the cinema, play music, listen to music, cycle, run……

Having grown up in the UK I think there's heaps of difference between my teen and 20's and what my kids have experienced. I did come from a very working class, Derbyshire mining area though, so nowhere near the sea.

Basically I was drinking from 16, pub most nights, played football at weekends and went training a couple of times a week. Pub after training though.

When I started work it was pub every night and all my mates were the same. Darts, dominoes, cards, 6 pints on weekdays was pretty average and Friday, Saturday it was probably 10 pints then a nightclub. Obviously managed to play football Saturday afternoon and Sunday mornings. Sometimes after a quick spew behind the changing rooms.

I know things have changed and there doesn't seem to be as much spare cash to spend on booze these days, lots of pubs have closed.

I know when my nieces and nephews have been here from the UK, we have a mixture of girls and boys, around the same ages as our 2. The difference in general fitness was amazing. Not just talking about swimming or anything to do with the ocean, goes without saying my 2 have grown up with it so it's second nature to them. Just taking the kids out on bikes was so noticeably different.

I took the youngest and his friend out with my 2 nephews from the UK. We had only gone about 5km on the bike path and there was no sign of the eldest nephew. We backtracked and found him pushing the bike.

Our youngest has autism and his mate that was with us that day is overweight and not particularly fit but he was used to going everywhere on his bike.

All of our relations don't live near the coast though, so there could be a difference due to location alone. Obviously climate makes a huge difference too. Not many going to go out riding bikes in the winter in the UK.

[MARYROSE02]

On 12/10/2021 at 00:36, Homesick1 said:

Did you make any decisions? I’d be keen to hear from anyone who returned with older kids, (mine are 12 & 19). 
I’ve been homesick off & on for 10 years so have now decided to head back with my husband & 2 kids. We sold out gorgeous Aussie home this weekend. I have wanted this for so long but now that it’s happening, the doubts are setting in big time! I left for a reason & I still believe that Aus has given my kids a better life but I miss so much about my old life. Plus, I’m worried about the political landscape in the UK at the mo. However, I’ve never felt at home in Aus & I constantly worry about my family not being around for much longer & I feel more disconnected from them with every passing year. It makes me sad that they barely know my kids & I am a wreck here at Christmas time. However, the thought of returning to UK pub / youth culture for my kids is giving me some serious regrets already! Will we ever be happy?!  

If you back and you like it that's good but if you don't like and return to Australia that's good too. There are two right decisions rather than one right and one wrong.   But you may have a period of adjustment to go through because it can be like emigrating all over again. 

After 18 years in Sydney I went back for what was supposed to be just another holiday to see my parents and I stayed for 12 years. Now I've been back in Sydney for nearly 13 years,  toying with the idea of moving to QLD or even WA.

I'm in the process of selling my home in England as I've not been back once and I'm not likely to. I rented my home in Sydney when I went to England and rented my home in England when I came back here. I've made a few stupid decisions along the way but what can I do?

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, MARYROSE02 said:

If you back and you like it that's good but if you don't like and return to Australia that's good too. There are two right decisions rather than one right and one wrong.   

That's true, if you're single or a young couple.   Although when we moved over, even we were astonished at how quickly the costs mounted up.  

If you're moving a family, it can easily cost $30,000 or more (air fares, shipping, costs to sell one home and buy another, holiday let for 4 weeks, money to live on while you look for work which can take months, etc).  If you don't like it and decide to return, there's another $30,000 to come back again. Not many families can afford to throw away that much money, so no wonder people are cautious about the risk of ping-ponging.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Marisawright

[MARYROSE02]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

That's true, if you're single or a young couple.   Although when we moved over, even we were astonished at how quickly the costs mounted up.  

If you're moving a family, it can easily cost $30,000 or more (air fares, shipping, costs to sell one home and buy another, holiday let for 4 weeks, money to live on while you look for work which can take months, etc).  If you don't like it and decide to return, there's another $30,000 to come back again. Not many families can afford to throw away that much money, so no wonder people are cautious about the risk of ping-ponging.

You are right as usual Marisa! I might have advised letting their house out rather than selling it "just in case" they wanted to return.  BUT  even though I took that option I wish I'd been more proactive sorting things out regarding my homes in both Sydney and Southampton. 

On the other hand, so far, I'm selling my house in Soton ok bar a few hassles.

I do envy the people who land in either UK or OZ and fall to their feet with a cry of "I'm home!" 

How are you coping with lockdown?

[Marisawright]

8 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

You are right as usual Marisa! I might have advised letting their house out rather than selling it "just in case"

Ah yes, but then people will say, "No wonder you can't settle because you're only renting here".   

I think you did the right thing, actually, because it meant you had an investment property all that time.  If you'd had the money from selling the Soton house, you'd probably have spent it.  Now you'll be very well off in your old age.  

I have to say, moving back to the UK for that year in 2015 made me realise, Australia feels like "home" to me.   When I watch a program about the UK, I sometimes wish I could take my husband to those places and show them to him, but apart from that, I have absolutely zero desire to go there myself. 

[Paul1Perth]

17 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

You are right as usual Marisa! I might have advised letting their house out rather than selling it "just in case" they wanted to return.  BUT  even though I took that option I wish I'd been more proactive sorting things out regarding my homes in both Sydney and Southampton. 

On the other hand, so far, I'm selling my house in Soton ok bar a few hassles.

I do envy the people who land in either UK or OZ and fall to their feet with a cry of "I'm home!" 

How are you coping with lockdown?

When we emigrated it was the money from the house sale that paid for the move. 

We never thought we wouldn't like it and maybe need to return. For us we loved it from day one. Took about a year renting before we had enough to get a mortgage again and find a house and suburb we like.

Never had enough money for investement properties, shares or other investements. We didn't pour everything into the mortgage either though, we still wanted to have holidays and see more of Aus. The offset mortgage helped a lot.

[MARYROSE02]

10 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Ah yes, but then people will say, "No wonder you can't settle because you're only renting here".   

I think you did the right thing, actually, because it meant you had an investment property all that time.  If you'd had the money from selling the Soton house, you'd probably have spent it.  Now you'll be very well off in your old age.  

I have to say, moving back to the UK for that year in 2015 made me realise, Australia feels like "home" to me.   When I watch a program about the UK, I sometimes wish I could take my husband to those places and show them to him, but apart from that, I have absolutely zero desire to go there myself. 

They might be renting for a while anyway whilst they look for somewhere to buy. I don't know what I would have done if I'd sold the house as I sold most of my shares and used most of my cash to buy the house. I might have bought a smaller house in England and a "real" investment property either there or in OZ. I've mostly been scrabbling for money for the last few years, partly my own fault for not getting permanent work. However, I suddenly realized that the money I've got untouched in super is basically cash on hand i.e. I don't need to use it to generate a regular income, unless I want to. And with the money from the house sale, that is more cash in hand.

When I came back to Sydney I had an regular income of about $1,500 a month supplemented by work when I could get it and I was often selling more shares or spending savings. When my Royal Mail and UK state pensions kicked in I was closer to $3,000 a month without working. Come to think of it that's my income now! I sailed through the lockdown financially because I wasn't going out to pub and restaurant every night. Of course, I no longer have the UK rent but I will have the cash to dip into.

Why did you go back in 2015? I can't remember now. I could have stayed there after my Dad died, worked with Royal Mail till 60 or even later. If my brothers had not been here I would probably still be there.

[MARYROSE02]

2 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

When we emigrated it was the money from the house sale that paid for the move. 

We never thought we wouldn't like it and maybe need to return. For us we loved it from day one. Took about a year renting before we had enough to get a mortgage again and find a house and suburb we like.

Never had enough money for investement properties, shares or other investements. We didn't pour everything into the mortgage either though, we still wanted to have holidays and see more of Aus. The offset mortgage helped a lot.

I didn't really buy the UK house as an investment as I planned to live in it, then I changed my mind and came back to Australia, and it became an investment. I fancy it would have been a better investment if I'd taken out a buy-to-let mortgage. In Australia, provided you structure it right, using negative gearing, you can buy an investment property and pay very little (?) I never did that though. Buy the property or properties on an interest only mortgage, use negative gearing, never pay the mortgage off and let the value of the property grow???? You could still probably do it Paul! I had a mate with a string of properties.

My parents helped my buy my flat in Sydney in 1987 and I paid the mortgage off by 1994 at which time I could have sold the flat and bought up in my suburb - Surry Hills - or bought an investment property, or both. I could have been living in a terrace house but now they are out of reach even if I sold this flat and added the money from the English house. On the other hand I'm free of debt which I like. Apart from my mortgage I've never taken a loan out to buy a car/holiday/whatever although I have had some unhealthy debt on my credit card.

I spent a lot of my cash on those two big holidays in Perth in 2017 and 2018! Thirteen weeks in apartments, thirteen weeks hiring a car though "No Birds" is a cheaper option than the likes of Hertz. Have you been to South Perth lately? When I was there they were building a complex of units off Mends Street, South Perth Esplanade, Mill Point Road, which are finished now. I know from Booking.Com that there is a new aparthotel place there. Quest South Perth Foreshore It's called.  I stayed in the Pensinsula apartments before, very nice, on the Esplanade, and Lodestar alongside the motorway, also nice but a longer walk to Mends St and the Windsor. Actually, $1,000 a week in the Penisular in December into January sounds very reasonable compared to Surfers but I don't think McGowan is opening for Xmas? Anna MAY be however.

[FirstWorldProblems]

3 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

In Australia, provided you structure it right, using negative gearing, you can buy an investment property and pay very little 

 

It will be interesting to see if that gets abolished.

Landlord mortgage interest tax relief has been removed in the UK.  It was gradually stepped down over 4 years, ending last year.   It's a move described as intending to stop very high earning landlords from benefiting from substantial tax relief - but it seems like it's a very painful for people who moved away from under performing pensions and set up a small property portfolio as a substitute.

I suspect the real reason is it played well in the media, where second (and more) home owners have always been vilified as the reason house prices are high, when in fact it's a result of interest rates being low and help-to-buy schemes.

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

It will be interesting to see if that gets abolished.....I suspect the real reason is it played well in the media, where second (and more) home owners have always been vilified...

Negative gearing doesn't apply to "second home" owners (i.e. people who own a holiday home and rent it out when they're not using it).   It applies to investment properties.   Owners of investment properties are not regarded as fat cats here.  Before house prices went crazy, ordinary people would buy a small investment property rather than invest in shares, so removing negative gearing would be election suicide.

[Paul1Perth]

20 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I didn't really buy the UK house as an investment as I planned to live in it, then I changed my mind and came back to Australia, and it became an investment. I fancy it would have been a better investment if I'd taken out a buy-to-let mortgage. In Australia, provided you structure it right, using negative gearing, you can buy an investment property and pay very little (?) I never did that though. Buy the property or properties on an interest only mortgage, use negative gearing, never pay the mortgage off and let the value of the property grow???? You could still probably do it Paul! I had a mate with a string of properties.

My parents helped my buy my flat in Sydney in 1987 and I paid the mortgage off by 1994 at which time I could have sold the flat and bought up in my suburb - Surry Hills - or bought an investment property, or both. I could have been living in a terrace house but now they are out of reach even if I sold this flat and added the money from the English house. On the other hand I'm free of debt which I like. Apart from my mortgage I've never taken a loan out to buy a car/holiday/whatever although I have had some unhealthy debt on my credit card.

I spent a lot of my cash on those two big holidays in Perth in 2017 and 2018! Thirteen weeks in apartments, thirteen weeks hiring a car though "No Birds" is a cheaper option than the likes of Hertz. Have you been to South Perth lately? When I was there they were building a complex of units off Mends Street, South Perth Esplanade, Mill Point Road, which are finished now. I know from Booking.Com that there is a new aparthotel place there. Quest South Perth Foreshore It's called.  I stayed in the Pensinsula apartments before, very nice, on the Esplanade, and Lodestar alongside the motorway, also nice but a longer walk to Mends St and the Windsor. Actually, $1,000 a week in the Penisular in December into January sounds very reasonable compared to Surfers but I don't think McGowan is opening for Xmas? Anna MAY be however.

I had a friend emigrate with his family a good 10 years after us. He had sold a house in Windsor so was cashed up. He paid cash for his house in the same suburb as us but about 2 mins walk to the beach. Got a job and went buying properties galore. Looked great for a few years, he had plans to retire at 50. Then things turned bad, GFC, lost his job at the same time, loads of outgoings and only his wifes salary as a physio coming in. 

To cut a long story short they nearly lost everything, including the house they bought for cash. They managed to hang on to it but they now have a massive mortgage and his dreams of early retirement are out the window.

I'm just glad we never went into over extending ourselves. Never even been overdrawn on a credit card and the only loan we've ever had was mortgage.

Don't get to South Perth much. Should do a trip to the zoo which is great. Not been for years. 

There are some nice developments there but we prefer the ocean to the river so even if we're going out it's mostly up and down the coast.

[Paul1Perth]

17 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

It will be interesting to see if that gets abolished.

Landlord mortgage interest tax relief has been removed in the UK.  It was gradually stepped down over 4 years, ending last year.   It's a move described as intending to stop very high earning landlords from benefiting from substantial tax relief - but it seems like it's a very painful for people who moved away from under performing pensions and set up a small property portfolio as a substitute.

I suspect the real reason is it played well in the media, where second (and more) home owners have always been vilified as the reason house prices are high, when in fact it's a result of interest rates being low and help-to-buy schemes.

I think there's too many people doing it for any government that wants to win an election to even mention changes to it. I think it's unfair that someone can buy an investement property and negative gear and get tax back on improvements. There's always fiddles too. Rife for abuse of the system.

[Parley]

On 14/10/2021 at 23:20, FirstWorldProblems said:

It will be interesting to see if that gets abolished.

Landlord mortgage interest tax relief has been removed in the UK.  It was gradually stepped down over 4 years, ending last year.   It's a move described as intending to stop very high earning landlords from benefiting from substantial tax relief - but it seems like it's a very painful for people who moved away from under performing pensions and set up a small property portfolio as a substitute.

I suspect the real reason is it played well in the media, where second (and more) home owners have always been vilified as the reason house prices are high, when in fact it's a result of interest rates being low and help-to-buy schemes.

Very unlikely. That was Labor's key policy at the last election and it scared many retirees as you pointed out.

Labor unexpectedly lost convincingly so I doubt they will try it again. In fact they have dropped it as a policy after the last election.

I wouldn't mind it being capped though. I think their concerns was more about the people who take it to extremes. People who have 20 investment properties. Using the equity from the first one to borrow against and buy the 2nd one etc. They become multi millionaires if prices keep rising which they have been. But can be a big house of card if prices are falling.

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Parley

[Blue Flu]

On 14/10/2021 at 16:41, MARYROSE02 said:

I didn't really buy the UK house as an investment as I planned to live in it, then I changed my mind and came back to Australia, and it became an investment. I fancy it would have been a better investment if I'd taken out a buy-to-let mortgage. In Australia, provided you structure it right, using negative gearing, you can buy an investment property and pay very little (?) I never did that though. Buy the property or properties on an interest only mortgage, use negative gearing, never pay the mortgage off and let the value of the property grow???? You could still probably do it Paul! I had a mate with a string of properties.

My parents helped my buy my flat in Sydney in 1987 and I paid the mortgage off by 1994 at which time I could have sold the flat and bought up in my suburb - Surry Hills - or bought an investment property, or both. I could have been living in a terrace house but now they are out of reach even if I sold this flat and added the money from the English house. On the other hand I'm free of debt which I like. Apart from my mortgage I've never taken a loan out to buy a car/holiday/whatever although I have had some unhealthy debt on my credit card.

I spent a lot of my cash on those two big holidays in Perth in 2017 and 2018! Thirteen weeks in apartments, thirteen weeks hiring a car though "No Birds" is a cheaper option than the likes of Hertz. Have you been to South Perth lately? When I was there they were building a complex of units off Mends Street, South Perth Esplanade, Mill Point Road, which are finished now. I know from Booking.Com that there is a new aparthotel place there. Quest South Perth Foreshore It's called.  I stayed in the Pensinsula apartments before, very nice, on the Esplanade, and Lodestar alongside the motorway, also nice but a longer walk to Mends St and the Windsor. Actually, $1,000 a week in the Penisular in December into January sounds very reasonable compared to Surfers but I don't think McGowan is opening for Xmas? Anna MAY be however.

I thought you inherited the house in UK? But not my business. As for only paying interest , not a especially sound thing , longer term. A number of such people tend to fare badly come interest rises or indeed depreciating property. This was I thought clamped down on a few years back when property was indeed falling. No doubt likely quietly forgotten by lenders. 

As for South Perth, was there a few weekends back. Small strip, reasonably attractive but with limitations.  As most places going there on the market are apartments, not really interested in relocating there. But Perth at the moment is very hard to find anything.  Not unlike other cities across Australia. 

[Blue Flu]

On 14/10/2021 at 20:20, FirstWorldProblems said:

It will be interesting to see if that gets abolished.

Landlord mortgage interest tax relief has been removed in the UK.  It was gradually stepped down over 4 years, ending last year.   It's a move described as intending to stop very high earning landlords from benefiting from substantial tax relief - but it seems like it's a very painful for people who moved away from under performing pensions and set up a small property portfolio as a substitute.

I suspect the real reason is it played well in the media, where second (and more) home owners have always been vilified as the reason house prices are high, when in fact it's a result of interest rates being low and help-to-buy schemes.

It should as distorts the market. But it won't. It has been tried previously under a former ALP government in the eighties. Back in after a few years. Any changes to the housing fiasco in Australia through legislation is bound to end in tears. This subject is as close to a religion you are likely to get in Australia. To rectify suicide at the polls. All adds up to the general mess housing finds itself in Australia.

[Blue Flu]

There are conflicting interests at play as usual from within the associated housing industry . Prediction in one quarter I was reading this morning of 30% rises in the next year. Nothing like creating confusion and startling the horses in an attempt to maintain status quo, or at least not set of any drastic changes. 

The mess created, is clear for all to see. Australia along with Canada and Hong Kong, has the most inflated housing outcomes in the world. Just what impact will this create on the social order? Immigration? I mean whop would bother if prices further escalate?