804 visa - lack of information on queues

[IN OZ FOR GOOD]

I was on a 457, in Australia for 7 years, returned to UK 2 years ago because of family illness. Our neighbours in Brisbane had their 92 yr old mum with them on an 804 non contributory visa. We want to go back on that visa if we can.

The 804 is taking 30 years. In reality, the grant time is immaterial. What I want to ask is - is there a limit to the yearly applications. Do they limit the queue? Based on our friends their mum will pass away long before visa grant.

Agents are vague about the 804. Like it doesn’t exist. Is this because they charge more for the 884/864 route? We have the balance of family in QLD with PR.

So, my wife will be 66.5 years in May 2023 and we plan to come in on a visitor visa and apply for an 804 - or are there restrictions or quotas on joining the queue? All information talks about award time only.

 There’s a giant difference in cost as I am sure you all know.

Anyone with experience of this Visa.

Thanks

[Marisawright]

No, there are no restrictions on joining the queue. The problem right now is that by 2023, the loophole you're planning to exploit may not exist any more.  In fact, the 804 visa may not exist  -the government has considered abolishing it once already, because medical care for 804 visa holders costs the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of dollars.  That is probably why agents aren't interested in discussing it.  

So, I would say that all you can do is wait and see if it's still there when the time comes.  

If it does still exist, then you need to be aware of the downsides.  By the time you apply, the waiting time will certainly be even more than 30 years, so you should assume you'll spend your whole life in Australia on a bridging visa.  This means you are in limbo, not a permanent resident of Australia, but not a resident of the UK any more either. There are some implications to that.

The good news is that you'll be covered by Medicare, though you won't be able to get cheap prescriptions like an Australian pensioner would.  There are a few bits of bad news, though.

First, you'll be stuck in Australia for the rest of your life.  If you want to go overseas (for a holiday, or a visit back to the UK), you need to apply for a special visa every time (a BVB), for a fee of course, and justify why you need to go.

If you want to buy a home, you'll be treated as a "foreign investor", even though you want to live in it. That means applying for special permission to FIRB (for a fee) and then paying a hefty surcharge on the purchase price, e.g. on a $500,000 property, the surcharge is $40,000.

Your UK govt pension will be frozen at the rate you're getting when you leave the UK. You will never get any increases.  At the same time, you will never be eligible for any Australian pension OR any welfare benefits, aged care, etc.  So you would need to be very confident that your private pensions will be enough to live on till you die. 

Finally, a bridging visa is, literally, a bridge between two visas - in your case, a bridge between the visitor visa and the 804 visa. For the bridge to exist, both visas must exist.   If the 804 visa is abolished at some point, your bridge will be broken, your bridging visa will be invalid, and you'll have to go back to the UK and set up your life all over again there.  That may not be a big deal when you're 70 but could be a real challenge at, say, 82.  

[rtritudr]

The 804 category still exists, but no it doesn't come with Medicare:

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/subjects/how-enrol-and-get-started-medicare/enrolling-medicare/if-youre-australian-permanent-resident

If you’ve applied for a parent visa

You can’t enrol in Medicare if you’ve applied for an 804 or 103 parent visa. You may have some cover under a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement.

[Marisawright]

17 minutes ago, rtritudr said:

The 804 category still exists, but no it doesn't come with Medicare:

You can’t enrol in Medicare if you’ve applied for an 804 or 103 parent visa. You may have some cover under a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement.

Assuming the OP is currently living in the UK, it was the reciprocal cover that I meant.  

[IN OZ FOR GOOD]

Thank you so much for the very clear reply Marisa.  I hadn't considered what happens if they change it cancel the visa. Don't they usually grandfather the visa for those who gave currently applied? Also the UK government freeze pensions anyway, as far as I know. Given the UK debt mountain I doubt they'll be able to keep previous pension promises.

Ironically, to pay the hefty visa fee I will have to sacrifice my Aussie super fund built up over the 7 years I was on a 457. That got chopped just after I got one for the second time. 

Certainly for peace of mind knowing you will have PR is crucial to physical and mental health.

I have good prospects of work if I return, so two years in the country will contribute a chunk of the final stage of of a contributory visa. 

A severe EU recession is forecast and the UK is facing a meltdown when furlough ends. 

So,  it makes sense to be with family and 3 grandchildren under 6 on the Sunshine Coast. 

People here cannot access their 'free' NHS health care anyway. 

 

Many thanks

 

David Walker 

 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, IN OZ FOR GOOD said:

Don't they usually grandfather the visa for those who gave currently applied?

No, not always.  There have been cases of other visas being cancelled and people who've been on bridging visas for years having to go home.  I forget the most recent example.

1 hour ago, IN OZ FOR GOOD said:

 Also the UK government freeze pensions anyway, as far as I know.

No, they don't.  British pensioners get a CPI increase every year, it's built into the legislation.  If you move to Australia, you won't get that CPI increase.

1 hour ago, IN OZ FOR GOOD said:

I have good prospects of work if I return, so two years in the country will contribute a chunk of the final stage of of a contributory visa.

You are assuming you'll be able to work.  Some parent visas give you the right to work, BUT that doesn't mean the bridging visa does. Usually, if you get a bridging visa, it has the work rights of your original visa - which is a visitor visa, hence no right to work.  I don't know if that's the case but it would obviously be important to check.  An agent will know.

[purplealster]

On 25/06/2021 at 17:21, IN OZ FOR GOOD said:

Thank you so much for the very clear reply Marisa.  I hadn't considered what happens if they change it cancel the visa. Don't they usually grandfather the visa for those who gave currently applied? Also the UK government freeze pensions anyway, as far as I know. Given the UK debt mountain I doubt they'll be able to keep previous pension promises.

Ironically, to pay the hefty visa fee I will have to sacrifice my Aussie super fund built up over the 7 years I was on a 457. That got chopped just after I got one for the second time. 

Certainly for peace of mind knowing you will have PR is crucial to physical and mental health.

I have good prospects of work if I return, so two years in the country will contribute a chunk of the final stage of of a contributory visa. 

A severe EU recession is forecast and the UK is facing a meltdown when furlough ends. 

So,  it makes sense to be with family and 3 grandchildren under 6 on the Sunshine Coast. 

People here cannot access their 'free' NHS health care anyway. 

 

Many thanks

 

David Walker 

 

No advice - except the suggestion you remove your name off your post!

[Nemesis]

On 25/06/2021 at 17:21, IN OZ FOR GOOD said:

Thank you so much for the very clear reply Marisa.  I hadn't considered what happens if they change it cancel the visa. Don't they usually grandfather the visa for those who gave currently applied? Also the UK government freeze pensions anyway, as far as I know. Given the UK debt mountain I doubt they'll be able to keep previous pension promises.

Ironically, to pay the hefty visa fee I will have to sacrifice my Aussie super fund built up over the 7 years I was on a 457. That got chopped just after I got one for the second time. 

Certainly for peace of mind knowing you will have PR is crucial to physical and mental health.

I have good prospects of work if I return, so two years in the country will contribute a chunk of the final stage of of a contributory visa. 

A severe EU recession is forecast and the UK is facing a meltdown when furlough ends. 

So,  it makes sense to be with family and 3 grandchildren under 6 on the Sunshine Coast. 

People here cannot access their 'free' NHS health care anyway. 

 

Many thanks

 

David Walker 

 

Apart from agreeing with Marisa's comments - such as the fact the UK pension is not frozen if you are in the UK, I'm a bit confused by your last statement - "People here cannot access their 'free' NHS health care anyway. " - I thought the NHS was still free at point of use? Do you mean people are now being asked to pay to access healthcare in the UK?

[Tulip1]

4 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Apart from agreeing with Marisa's comments - such as the fact the UK pension is not frozen if you are in the UK, I'm a bit confused by your last statement - "People here cannot access their 'free' NHS health care anyway. " - I thought the NHS was still free at point of use? Do you mean people are now being asked to pay to access healthcare in the UK?

Hopefully the OP will be along to explain what they meant but in the meantime be assured no one is being asked to pay and thousands access the free NHS care every second of every day.  

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Apart from agreeing with Marisa's comments - such as the fact the UK pension is not frozen if you are in the UK, I'm a bit confused by your last statement - "People here cannot access their 'free' NHS health care anyway. " - I thought the NHS was still free at point of use? Do you mean people are now being asked to pay to access healthcare in the UK?

I think @IN OZ FOR GOOD is referencing the long waiting lists for elective surgery and inabiiity to get some preventive testing.

[LindaH27]

On 25/06/2021 at 08:21, IN OZ FOR GOOD said:

Thank you so much for the very clear reply Marisa.  I hadn't considered what happens if they change it cancel the visa. Don't they usually grandfather the visa for those who gave currently applied? Also the UK government freeze pensions anyway, as far as I know. Given the UK debt mountain I doubt they'll be able to keep previous pension promises.

Ironically, to pay the hefty visa fee I will have to sacrifice my Aussie super fund built up over the 7 years I was on a 457. That got chopped just after I got one for the second time. 

Certainly for peace of mind knowing you will have PR is crucial to physical and mental health.

I have good prospects of work if I return, so two years in the country will contribute a chunk of the final stage of of a contributory visa. 

A severe EU recession is forecast and the UK is facing a meltdown when furlough ends. 

So,  it makes sense to be with family and 3 grandchildren under 6 on the Sunshine Coast. 

People here cannot access their 'free' NHS health care anyway. 

 

Many thanks

 

David Walker 

 

There’s currently a Senate enquiry going on into parent visas with a report due out in August. The govt tried to stop 804  in 2014 and  the 2016 review also recommended  getting rid of it. The wait list for 804  is currently 30 years and you would not be eligible for any aged benefits or care  costs as you get older so there are major financial costs to be considered and factored in.

 

UK economy is expected to actually do very well! 

[LindaH27]

@IN OZ FOR GOOD you actually mentioned that 

Certainly for peace of mind knowing you will have PR is crucial to physical and mental health.

I have good prospects of work if I return, so two years in the country will contribute a chunk of the final stage of of a contributory visa

 

Are you aware that new applications for a contributory visa are likely to take in excess of 10 years for grant?