Ping Pongers

[Lavers]

Just now, Marisawright said:

I do think the Australians' willingness to travel is a myth.   I think it was true many years ago, and outback Aussies still travel long distances because they have to - but in my experience, modern urban Aussies are far more reluctant than Brits to travel far.

When I first arrived in Australia, I lived in Warracknabeal and worked near Horsham.  That meant a 200K round trip every day, but it was a fast run on a long, straight, empty road, and there were no jobs locally.  Everyone at my work (all Aussies) were gobsmacked that I would drive that far to get to work.

I lived in Sydney for over 30 years.  When I lived in the Eastern suburbs and Inner West, friends would come to visit.  We moved to Oatley, were there for five years, and never once did any of those friends come to a BBQ or dinner party.  We had to go to them.  "Too far" apparently.  

By contrast, when we were in Southampton, I was stunned to find that people happily travelled to Portsmouth or Bournemouth for their weekly dance classes - and in winter that meant in the dark and probably pouring rain, not to mention horrible traffic. 

We can't class everyone the same but the neighbours around me who are all Australian are surprised when we go for an hours drive somewhere for a day trip.

Also the 5 lads I work with have never left Australia before.

As Toots says though, where ever you go some will get out and about and some will sit in the house all day. 

 

[Bulya]

20 minutes ago, Lavers said:

3 miles is a long way though haha

A quick walk.  

[Bulya]

20 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I do think the Australians' willingness to travel is a myth.   I think it was true many years ago, and outback Aussies still travel long distances because they have to - but in my experience, modern urban Aussies are far more reluctant than Brits to travel far.

When I first arrived in Australia, I lived in Warracknabeal and worked near Horsham.  That meant a 200K round trip every day, but it was a fast run on a long, straight, empty road, and there were no jobs locally.  Everyone at my work (all Aussies) were gobsmacked that I would drive that far to get to work.

I lived in Sydney for over 30 years.  When I lived in the Eastern suburbs and Inner West, friends would come to visit.  We moved to Oatley, were there for five years, and never once did any of those friends come to a BBQ or dinner party.  We had to go to them.  "Too far" apparently.  

By contrast, when we were in Southampton, I was stunned to find that people happily travelled to Portsmouth or Bournemouth for their weekly dance classes - and in winter that meant in the dark and probably pouring rain, not to mention horrible traffic. 

People drive from Goulburn to Canberra return daily for work.  All the agistees where our horse is located drive from Canberra or Goulburn.  I recently drove to Jugiong for breakfast, 231 kms round trip.  People here cover large distances daily. 

[ramot]

The best example of reluctance to travel in my experience, is returning to UK for a visit, travelled halfway across the world, but will people travel to see you? No, you have to go to them, long time expat jokes, excuses range from I can’t see you on Wednesday it’s the day I go shopping, or bingo on Thursday, and of course Monday is washing  day, so entrenched in their routines, We used to rent a 2 bed place to start with, innocently thinking friends would visit and stay, oh no you almost always had to do the extra travelling to catch up. 

Always had a great welcome and catch up, so worth it, but a different mind set from friends who had never travelled far from home.

Edited June 18, 2021 by ramot

[Dan Not Dale]

5 minutes ago, ramot said:

The best example of reluctance to travel in my experience, is returning to UK for a visit, travelled halfway across the world, but will people travel to see you? No, you have to go to them, long time expat jokes, excuses range from I can’t see you on Wednesday it’s the day I go shopping, or bingo on Thursday, and of course Monday is washing  day, so entrenched in their routines, We used to rent a 2 bed place to start with, innocently thinking friends would visit and stay, oh no you almost always had to do the extra travelling to catch up. 

Always had a great welcome and catch up, so worth it, but a different mind set from friends who had never travelled far from home.

This is my biggest annoyance when I return on trips.

You can’t possibly miss one week of karate to see us, that would be ridiculous.

I get that we moved away, but is the schedule really that set in stone.

[Marisawright]

Just now, Dan Not Dale said:

This is my biggest annoyance when I return on trips.

You can’t possibly miss one week of karate to see us, that would be ridiculous.

I get that we moved away, but is the schedule really that set in stone.

I think that has a lot more to do with a reluctance to disturb their lives than with a reluctance to travel, though.

[Dan Not Dale]

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I think that has a lot more to do with a reluctance to disturb their lives than with a reluctance to travel, though.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Dan Not Dale

[Dan Not Dale]

Sorry about that last post, very glitchy.

Yeah it is more about routine  no one even needs to drive more than 10 mins in all the scenarios this has happened in.

Do threads always go off topic like this?

[Toots]

1 minute ago, Dan Not Dale said:

Sorry about that last post, very glitchy.

Yeah it is more about routine  no one even needs to drive more than 10 mins in all the scenarios this has happened in.

Do threads always go off topic like this?

Yes.  

[Dan Not Dale]

I assumed as much!

I’m just pleasantly surprised I wasn’t absolutely hammered for suggesting there are any negatives to Melbourne. 

So nice to be among Brits, acknowledging negatives……. maybe hanging around here will be all the change I need?

[Parley]

12 minutes ago, Dan Not Dale said:

I assumed as much!

I’m just pleasantly surprised I wasn’t absolutely hammered for suggesting there are any negatives to Melbourne. 

So nice to be among Brits, acknowledging negatives……. maybe hanging around here will be all the change I need?

I live in Melbourne and love it, but I would not like to live in certain places in Melbourne.

I suspect you might be out in the western suburbs or far South East ? If you don't mind saying the suburb I can comment better. I would never live out in Point Cook for example.

I am in what might be considered the leafy eastern suburbs and it is a wonderful lifestyle. Trouble is family homes are getting to around $1.5 M now.

I don't think you condemn all of Melbourne if you are in an undesirable part. Melbourne is huge in area.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Parley

[Marisawright]

15 minutes ago, Parley said:

I live in Melbourne and love it, but I would not like to live in certain places in Melbourne.

Exactly.  I'd say the same about Sydney, and you'd only have to ask @bug family about the dreaded boondocks of Perth.  Like I said, big cities always have their fair share of dodgy suburbs.

@Dan Not Dale, how does your partner feel about going back to Blighty?  I think that's the biggest question, because it's got to be  a joint decision.   And I understand about finacial concerns, but you need to think about the long-term future, not just now. 

Below is a cautionary tale.  It's a typical story we've seen from several members who came to Australia for a "better lifestyle", didn't really settle, but stayed because they were financially better off: 

Kids come along, and life gets too busy to think about going home. Eventually the pull gets stronger - maybe parents getting older - but you can't move now, because the kids are in Year 10 so you can't disrupt their education.  Then they leave school, but you discover they'll be treated as a foreigner by British universities so will have to pay full fees, no grants or loans. Can't afford that, so you're stuck till they finish uni. But by that time, your kids are 100% Aussie so they won't leave - and your wife won't leave them, especially once they marry and there are grandkids in prospect.  Maybe you'll leave when the grandkids are teenagers and don't have as much time for grandpa and grandma?

So you think, worst case scenario, I'll retire back home. But then you discover that means losing a third of your superannuation to the British taxman, you can't claim the Australian pension, and you're not entitled to much of a British one either.  So you're stuck till you die.

(I should just repeat that I feel far more Australian now than British so I can't fully empathise with people in that situation, but I have seen similar stories too many times on these forums - to ignore them would be playing Pollyanna).

Edited June 18, 2021 by Marisawright

[Dan Not Dale]

7 minutes ago, Parley said:

I live in Melbourne and love it, but I would not like to live in certain places in Melbourne.

I suspect you might be out in the western suburbs or far South East ? If you don't mind saying the suburb I can comment better. I would never live out in Point Cook for example.

I am in what might be considered the leafy eastern suburbs and it is a wonderful lifestyle. Trouble is family homes are getting to around $1.5 M now.

I don't think you condemn all of Melbourne if you are in an undesirable part. Melbourne is huge in area.

Cranbourne South. Brand new estate. The Estate itself is extremely good. People travel to be in the estate at the weekend. Take their kids to the parks. I think you’d be presently surprised.

Yep, I appreciate no one has time to study the whole thread carefully, I’ve openly said if we were in Brighton, Black Rock I’m sure we’d have an great life.

But as you say, there is no way I’m taking on 1.4 million of debt to be in one of the desirable suburbs, I couldn’t sleep at night with that kind of debt. 
Perhaps my original post should have said that Melbourne can be a great place, but the vast majority of people below a certain age have a choice. Insane debt or soulless suburbs. 

I appreciate first time buyers can’t go straight to in to a four bed inner eastern suburb, but let’s say your the average 30 year old with 100k saved up for a deposit (which I’m told most don’t even have). What choice would you have? 

sorry if sounds like a rant, just open to discussing the topic, I can get quite passionate about it  

[Parley]

2 minutes ago, Dan Not Dale said:

Cranbourne South. Brand new estate. The Estate itself is extremely good. People travel to be in the estate at the weekend. Take their kids to the parks. I think you’d be presently surprised.

Yep, I appreciate no one has time to study the whole thread carefully, I’ve openly said if we were in Brighton, Black Rock I’m sure we’d have an great life.

But as you say, there is no way I’m taking on 1.4 million of debt to be in one of the desirable suburbs, I couldn’t sleep at night with that kind of debt. 
Perhaps my original post should have said that Melbourne can be a great place, but the vast majority of people below a certain age have a choice. Insane debt or soulless suburbs. 

I appreciate first time buyers can’t go straight to in to a four bed inner eastern suburb, but let’s say your the average 30 year old with 100k saved up for a deposit (which I’m told most don’t even have). What choice would you have? 

sorry if sounds like a rant, just open to discussing the topic, I can get quite passionate about it  

Yes I understand. I don't like the look of housing estates with houses crammed in next to each other on very small blocks. I know your rough location Is that Sandhurst? A long way from the city, but at least you are not too far to drive to some nice beaches around Mount Eliza and Mornington.

You could look at an older house in a more established suburb closer in or think about whether you like to live in an apartment.

[Marisawright]

8 minutes ago, Dan Not Dale said:

I appreciate first time buyers can’t go straight to in to a four bed inner eastern suburb, but let’s say your the average 30 year old with 100k saved up for a deposit (which I’m told most don’t even have). What choice would you have? 

sorry if sounds like a rant, just open to discussing the topic, I can get quite passionate about it  

You could say the same about London or Cambridge, for instance. It doesnt make those cities bad places.  You're the one who chose the second most expensive city in the whole of Australia (and yes I know you had a good reason).  You could move literally anywhere else, except Sydney, and afford a better suburb.

[Blue Flu]

16 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

Do you like things to do nearby, bars, restaurants etc, history, culture? Country feel? 

Fremantle or Leederville might suit you for a city vibe. More culture in Freo. Both on the train line. You’d be paying closer to 1000k to live there though. Houses for 700k up in Leederville. 
 

Guildford is lovely. 20 mins from city. On the train line. Hills region.  Historic early settlement town. 700k plus for a 3 bed though. 

Have lived in Leederville for yonks. While great location and raters high in walkability stakes, great public transport access, close to dining options,  it is not without its problems unfortunately. A shame what has happened but hardly confined to Leederville.

[Dan Not Dale]

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Exactly.  I'd say the same about Sydney, and you'd only have to ask @bug family about the dreaded boondocks of Perth.  Like I said, big cities always have their fair share of dodgy suburbs.

@Dan Not Dale, how does your partner feel about going back to Blighty?  I think that's the biggest question, because it's got to be  a joint decision.   And I understand about finacial concerns, but you need to think about the long-term future, not just now. 

Below is a cautionary tale.  It's a typical story we've seen from several members who came to Australia for a "better lifestyle", didn't really settle, but stayed because they were financially better off: 

Kids come along, and life gets too busy to think about going home. Eventually the pull gets stronger - maybe parents getting older - but you can't move now, because the kids are in Year 10 so you can't disrupt their education.  Then they leave school, but you discover they'll be treated as a foreigner by British universities so will have to pay full fees, no grants or loans. Can't afford that, so you're stuck till they finish uni. But by that time, your kids are 100% Aussie so they won't leave - and your wife won't leave them, especially once they marry and there are grandkids in prospect.  Maybe you'll leave when the grandkids are teenagers and don't have as much time for grandpa and grandma?

So you think, worst case scenario, I'll retire back home. But then you discover that means losing a third of your superannuation to the British taxman, you can't claim the Australian pension, and you're not entitled to much of a British one either.  So you're stuck till you die.

(I should just repeat that I feel far more Australian now than British so I can't fully empathise with people in that situation, but I have seen similar stories too many times on these forums - to ignore them would be playing Pollyanna).

Ultimately she would come back, but we’re always goona be away from one side of the family. We’d have a circle of friends in UK tho.

I’m acutely aware of all covered there and play these sort of scenarios in my head all the time. Keeps me up at night. 

Always said I’m on the first plane home when the parents start to struggle, but yeah once a kid is in the mix, isn’t that simple. 

I guess it’s why I’ve reached out here.  The constant worry and comparison. It’s just put life on hold. 

[Dan Not Dale]

10 minutes ago, Parley said:

Yes I understand. I don't like the look of housing estates with houses crammed in next to each other on very small blocks. I know your rough location Is that Sandhurst? A long way from the city, but at least you are not too far to drive to some nice beaches around Mount Eliza and Mornington.

You could look at an older house in a more established suburb closer in or think about whether you like to live in an apartment.

Yeah we are close to Sandhurst. Did apartments in Bentleigh whilst saving a deposit. Mixed feelings.

I’m very appreciative of your suggestions (Eliza, Mornington). I think my reactions to them actually tell me what I need to know. Been to them, they have no appeal at all.

Maybe I’m just a pint in a sh*t pub while watching the football, then back home to watch tv kinda guy, and that’s ok, but not very Australian. 

I hope I’m not coming across too contradictory, these comments are helping a lot. 

[Dan Not Dale]

14 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Have lived in Leederville for yonks. While great location and raters high in walkability stakes, great public transport access, close to dining options,  it is not without its problems unfortunately. A shame what has happened but hardly confined to Leederville.

What has happened to these places? Sorry I’m a bit clueless. 

[Marisawright]

10 minutes ago, Dan Not Dale said:

Maybe I’m just a pint in a sh*t pub while watching the football, then back home to watch tv kinda guy, and that’s ok, but not very Australian. 

That may be the case.  Pub culture, as it exists in the UK, isn't a thing in most of Australia.  Some suburbs in Sydney have no pub at all - all the socialising is done in cafés which is not the same thing. Don't get me wrong, there are pubs in Oz, but the vibe is different.  

I do think that's one key reason why many Brits can't settle.  If the pub was how you met/made friends and the centre of your community, you're not likely to settle in Australia unless you're willing to make a major shift in your habits and lifestyle.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Marisawright

[rammygirl]

Are you feeling pressure to be something you are not?  You need to address what sort of lifestyle you actually want with your partner and agree a way forward that suits you both. Some compromise will have to be made, it’s inevitable really.

In the UK my husband faced pressure to conform to a lifestyle of his work peers, posh house in specific area, private schools, clubs designer gear and flash cars.  Not us. We continued to live in a village north of Manchester and socialise with people we liked not wanted to compete with! In the end they gave up on us as eccentric.  Don’t regret not joining their circle, we are better off for it both financially and personally. 

[Dan Not Dale]

4 minutes ago, rammygirl said:

Are you feeling pressure to be something you are not?  You need to address what sort of lifestyle you actually want with your partner and agree a way forward that suits you both. Some compromise will have to be made, it’s inevitable really.

In the UK my husband faced pressure to conform to a lifestyle of his work peers, posh house in specific area, private schools, clubs designer gear and flash cars.  Not us. We continued to live in a village north of Manchester and socialise with people we liked not wanted to compete with! In the end they gave up on us as eccentric.  Don’t regret not joining their circle, we are better off for it both financially and personally. 

Some interesting questions there. I’m glad you and your husband didn’t get sucked in to that sh*t. Yes I’ve complicated things by moving here but glad not living life to impress others.

I do feel us getting dragged in to suburb snobbery somewhat with acquaintances and partners work colleagues. I thought there wouldn’t be snobbery here, that was part of the appeal. Nieve no doubt (can’t spell it).

Though I’ve managed to keep to principles and minimise debt and ultimately live in a suburb for which people give me a sympathetic look when I tell them.

I have no mates here so there is no one to compete against. 
Mates at home would still love me and come round if I lived in a studio flat. They just wouldn’t  travel outside our town to do it often.

My town is commutable to London, it’s not cheap. A frankly, crap 2 bed terrace (compared to something here) is fast approaching £300k. Thats a huge part of what keeps me here.

[Parley]

Rising house prices seem to be a world wide phenomenon, so need to be mindful of that.

Decide where you want to live and bit the bullet on a large mortgage if you can make ends meet.

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, Bulya said:

Nonsense.  Just about everybody I know travels o’seas most years and they sure don’t go to Bali.  And I think you missed the point, I was talking about travel locally and daily.  

You are probably right in that most poms i think don;t move to Australia to sign up for a longer commute than they had in the UK.

On the other point, only about half of Australians have a passport, so its possible your circle is not typical.

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, Bulya said:

Because I’m educated and aware.  Oh, and they’re always whingeing about having to travel.  Watch the episode of Escape to the Country where the team find the most perfect abode for the prospective buyers, yet they turn it down because it’s three miles from the village.  I know what I’m talking about…

Ah yes the judging British people on escape to the county, a show for people so incapable of buying a house they need professional advice, who then point out they are looking for literally something which doesn't exist in their budget.