Sydney property

[MaroubraAndy]

17 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Once interest rates go up in The States and money becomes more expensive to borrow at the international level, Australia will have little choice. ANZ has already made the call that rates will rise before The Reserve Bank of Australia's 2024 has forecasted. One thing for certain they will rise. The government has placed far too much emphasis on housing, even to the point of relaxing Royal Commission recommendations into curtailing certain risky behaviour by brokers for example. Nobody knows how it will end. We have some examples like Ireland. But again little wes learnt there either, after some heavy losses experienced. I guess the banks feel they are too big to fail. Most likely scenario is those that borrowed with reckless abandon will be left to own devices and some sort of intervention will be necessary to stop a market crash.

Solid commentary there.

[MaroubraAndy]

11 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Well more likely we'd be paying the banks  for the service of holding our money. It was the intervention by government into the market that created the problem we now face. (prices were falling, especially in WA, but believe in other places as well.) All government intervention does is to raise the prices accordingly. I don't think social housing has been a great success in Australia. What would be better is a change in attitude. Make Australia a feasible country to rent in  as in Europe. We need far better tenancy laws. People need to have the security of tenue. Not as present , six or twelve month leases with no idea if they will have continued tenancy at the end of that period. We need stable rents. Not dependent on the economy at any particular time in the cycle. 

Banks have far too much tied up in the housing market , together with the real estate industry enabling far too much influence over policy. Mortgage loans are easy bread and butter for the financial industry. Far too much invested in that. Sheer laziness and likely knowledge that tax payers will support bad policy in time of crisis. 

Not a question of doom mongers. The housing industry did decline rapidly in countries like Ireland and Spain. Some areas of USA as well, I believe. As mentioned WA saw considerable price deflation come the decline in resource demand. That has been turned around starting with state government intervention around extensions and later first home buyers yet again. 

If the market is not allowed to find its true worth, due to political intervention, just how will prices adjust?  It should be remembered the historical rate of interest rates is 7%. That used to be the figure suggested to make allowance for in times of lower rates. Usual economic policy has been ditched due to present policy to keep it afloat. 

The truth is property on an international scale is well over priced. It is a drain on the economy, being unproductive and limiting potential, due to high costs of recruiting staff to unaffordable cities.

I can see why stagnation would be the preferred option of many. Never a good feel paying of a mortgage on a property worth twenty per cent less than purchased. But of course once interest rates do head upwards, many will find themselves in a very difficult position. 

But a return to housing for their traditional reason as a place to live in rather than a vehicle to make obscene unearned money from should be welcomed imo. 

The government need to move away from incentivising buy to let by removing the rediculous tax breaks available. The U.K. have done a great job in this regard by stopping individuals from deducting mortgage interest from their buy to let profits as well as imposing additional stamp duty for folks buying additional properties. This has led to many buy to let investors (myself included) exiting the market as the returns arent worth the hassle. 

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, MaroubraAndy said:

The government need to move away from incentivising buy to let by removing the rediculous tax breaks available. The U.K. have done a great job in this regard by stopping individuals from deducting mortgage interest from their buy to let profits as well as imposing additional stamp duty for folks buying additional properties. This has led to many buy to let investors (myself included) exiting the market as the returns arent worth the hassle. 

Bit the problem then is that the government will have to build more social housing because there will be a shortage of rental properties 

[Toots]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Bit the problem then is that the government will have to build more social housing because there will be a shortage of rental properties 

Governments over the past couple of decades should have built a lot more decent social housing.  It's a real problem for many low income renters here in Tassie.  There are a dozen small villa type houses (Social housing) being built here in Devonport just now.  Handy for shops, school etc.  There are also lots of small state housing developments scattered all around town - mixed in with private housing.  Seems to work well.  Lots more need to be built though.

[MaroubraAndy]

On 14/06/2021 at 23:06, Marisawright said:

Bit the problem then is that the government will have to build more social housing because there will be a shortage of rental properties 

Well that certainly isn’t what’s happened in the U.K. The social housing stock had dramatically decreased over the last 30 years and that didn’t stop the gov introducing polices to disincentivise the amateur (1-2 property) buy to let investors. I guess private companies will fill the void left by the amateurs which I guess is a good thing on the whole as they can be regulated properly.

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, MaroubraAndy said:

Well that certainly isn’t what’s happened in the U.K. The social housing stock had dramatically decreased over the last 30 years and that didn’t stop the gov introducing polices to disincentivise the amateur (1-2 property) buy to let investors. I guess private companies will fill the void left by the amateurs which I guess is a good thing on the whole as they can be regulated properly.

In Australia, there's not enough money in property for private companies to be interested, unless there are tax breaks.  

[nomadiccarpenter]

I have a good problem right now, but I'm torn. When I finally arrive to NSW in '22, I will fortunately have enough for a down payment and then some. I'm very eager to own property and have my own place. However, my heart is set on Brisbane after my two years in NSW are up. Is it worth waiting two years to buy in Brisbane or wiser to go ahead and buy in Sydney (if I can) and maybe Bris later?

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

I have a good problem right now, but I'm torn. When I finally arrive to NSW in '22, I will fortunately have enough for a down payment and then some. I'm very eager to own property and have my own place. However, my heart is set on Brisbane after my two years in NSW are up. Is it worth waiting two years to buy in Brisbane or wiser to go ahead and buy in Sydney (if I can) and maybe Bris later?

If you are thinking of buying in Sydney, then selling up in three or four years and moving to Brisbane, then DO NOT DO IT!     You will lose money on it, because your costs of buying and selling, plus your mortgage interest, will be far, far more than you would've paid in rent during that time, even at Sydney prices.

Your best plan could be to buy a property up in Brisbane as soon as you can, and rent it out for the first few years, until you're ready to move up there and live in it yourself.  

To explain in more detail in case you're interested:  if there is a "first home buyers" scheme when you arrive, there may not be stamp duty to pay, so let's assume that's the case.  You'll have to pay conveyancing costs of around $2,000.  Then you'll need a mortgage and there will be application fees.  On a $550,000 property, you'll pay about $30,000 a year in mortgage payments, plus council rates, water rates and (if you buy an apartment or maisonette, which is likely in Sydney) strata fees of around $5,000 a year.  

Now let's say you stay in Sydney for two years.  Over those two years, the home you've bought has cost you at least $70,000.  That's all money out the door, because in the first 5 years of your mortgage, you're just paying off interest - you haven't paid anything off the mortgage at all.   Then you'll have another $5,000 to shell out to sell the place. You could probably have rented a nicer place in a nicer suburb during that time for less than that. 

Obviously, the gamble is that the property has risen in price during that time - which at one time, in Sydney, you could confidently gamble on.  Not so much now.

[Parley]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

If you are thinking of buying in Sydney, then selling up in three or four years and moving to Brisbane, then DO NOT DO IT!     You will lose money on it, because your costs of buying and selling, plus your mortgage interest, will be far, far more than you would've paid in rent during that time, even at Sydney prices.

 

Are you ignoring how much Sydney property can appreciate in 4 years? It could go up $500K

[Marisawright]

52 minutes ago, Parley said:

Are you ignoring how much Sydney property can appreciate in 4 years? It could go up $500K

He was talking about only 2 years actually and Sydney prices don’t always appreciate that fast

[nomadiccarpenter]

20 hours ago, Marisawright said:

If you are thinking of buying in Sydney, then selling up in three or four years and moving to Brisbane, then DO NOT DO IT!     You will lose money on it, because your costs of buying and selling, plus your mortgage interest, will be far, far more than you would've paid in rent during that time, even at Sydney prices.

Your best plan could be to buy a property up in Brisbane as soon as you can, and rent it out for the first few years, until you're ready to move up there and live in it yourself.  

To explain in more detail in case you're interested:  if there is a "first home buyers" scheme when you arrive, there may not be stamp duty to pay, so let's assume that's the case.  You'll have to pay conveyancing costs of around $2,000.  Then you'll need a mortgage and there will be application fees.  On a $550,000 property, you'll pay about $30,000 a year in mortgage payments, plus council rates, water rates and (if you buy an apartment or maisonette, which is likely in Sydney) strata fees of around $5,000 a year.  

Now let's say you stay in Sydney for two years.  Over those two years, the home you've bought has cost you at least $70,000.  That's all money out the door, because in the first 5 years of your mortgage, you're just paying off interest - you haven't paid anything off the mortgage at all.   Then you'll have another $5,000 to shell out to sell the place. You could probably have rented a nicer place in a nicer suburb during that time for less than that. 

Obviously, the gamble is that the property has risen in price during that time - which at one time, in Sydney, you could confidently gamble on.  Not so much now.

Thanks for your detailed answer. Would love to be able to buy an investment property in Bris while I due my time in Sydney, but not sure if it would complicate my PR by raising flags about residency. If I own any property, I already know that I want to hold it forever, or if plans change, at least eight years... so my other option of course is to buy Sydney and delay Queensland until I could either afford a 2nd - or sell the first if I don't end up having chemistry with Sydney. Like I said, good problem to have. I'm glad to be in a position to at least think about it after years of not being able to enter the US markets in cities I like. Sydney is pretty tough too looks like but seems like there are more pathways in Oz.

[MARYROSE02]

On 25/06/2021 at 04:54, nomadiccarpenter said:

I have a good problem right now, but I'm torn. When I finally arrive to NSW in '22, I will fortunately have enough for a down payment and then some. I'm very eager to own property and have my own place. However, my heart is set on Brisbane after my two years in NSW are up. Is it worth waiting two years to buy in Brisbane or wiser to go ahead and buy in Sydney (if I can) and maybe Bris later?

Why the two years in Sydney? Is that where your job offer is then your visa requires you stay in Sydney for two years? 

Anyway, you MIGHT find that after two years in Sydney you like it there and don't want to move to Brisbane.  Not that it matters of course.

My brother went up to QLD two weeks ago and has settled In to Redcliffe,  says he likes it. Beach 'burb 40 minutes north east of Brisbane CBD? I've not been there. 

We both spent time in Surfers Paradise which I loved and he hated. He hates Sydney too. I don't hate it. I "just" live here in Surry Hills.

I've been back from Surfers for three months and was planning to go back to Surfers for another look to see if I still liked it. Covid-19 had other plans for me. I even booked a hire car one way but then thought "I'll wait till I have me 2nd Pfizer jab". Too late. My part of Sydney locked down on the same day as the 2nd jab and every state has shut NSW out.

I decided to sell.my house in England and I may use some of the money to buy a place in Surfers, maybe spend the winters there. We shall see.

[newjez]

5 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

We both spent time in Surfers Paradise which I loved and he hated. He hates Sydney too. I don't hate it. I "just" live here in Surry Hills.

I've been back from Surfers for three months and was planning to go back to Surfers for another look to see if I still liked it. Covid-19 had other plans for me. I even booked a hire car one way but then thought "I'll wait till I have me 2nd Pfizer jab". Too late. My part of Sydney locked down on the same day as the 2nd jab and every state has shut NSW out.

I decided to sell.my house in England and I may use some of the money to buy a place in Surfers, maybe spend the winters there. We shall see.

The prices in UK have gone ballistic this year, but especially in the rural areas. Don't know where your house is, but I would expect a pleasant valuation. Probably more than you think it's worth. Possibly a lot more.

Things seem to be selling very quickly, often before they are listed. It's a crazy market. Makes it hard to judge prices as there is very little on the market.

Be very careful when valuing. Don't sell it too low.

[Blue Flu]

On 25/06/2021 at 15:17, Parley said:

Are you ignoring how much Sydney property can appreciate in 4 years? It could go up $500K

Very unlikely. What most likely will happen is that  interest rates will rise well before predictions. I'd imagine next year and the heat will dissipate from all markets. Simply, Australian real estate is way over inflated, and intervention will be necessary regards . 

[Tulip1]

5 hours ago, newjez said:

The prices in UK have gone ballistic this year, but especially in the rural areas. Don't know where your house is, but I would expect a pleasant valuation. Probably more than you think it's worth. Possibly a lot more.

Things seem to be selling very quickly, often before they are listed. It's a crazy market. Makes it hard to judge prices as there is very little on the market.

Be very careful when valuing. Don't sell it too low.

My neighbour sold quickly for over the asking price.  The buyer starting putting pressure on her to complete quickly and thought they’d frighten her by saying they were having second thoughts and would have to think about whether they wanted to continue.  It didn’t work and she put it back on the market, adding another £10k to the price because the estate agent said things were going crazy.  She sold it two days later for the new asking price.  Ironically to the original buyer who realised their threat didn’t work and panicked.  

[nomadiccarpenter]

19 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Why the two years in Sydney? Is that where your job offer is then your visa requires you stay in Sydney for two years? 

Anyway, you MIGHT find that after two years in Sydney you like it there and don't want to move to Brisbane.  Not that it matters of course.

My brother went up to QLD two weeks ago and has settled In to Redcliffe,  says he likes it. Beach 'burb 40 minutes north east of Brisbane CBD? I've not been there. 

We both spent time in Surfers Paradise which I loved and he hated. He hates Sydney too. I don't hate it. I "just" live here in Surry Hills.

I've been back from Surfers for three months and was planning to go back to Surfers for another look to see if I still liked it. 

 

I didn't need a job offer but I do have to live and work in New South Wales for two years before I can move anywhere else. Just part of the standard 190 requirements. I'm going for duel citizenship eventually so trying to be very cautious.

I've only spent a total of three weeks in Sydney in the past. There's definitely a lot to love but it felt more intense than Brisbane. I feel like I gotta be hustlin' to stay alive. People were in a hurry. It reminded me of big US cities in that way. My impression could change once I live in different suburbs and maybe the city will grow on me more. I'm still very excited about living there, hopefully soon.

People I meet either love or hate Surfer's Paradise. It's definitely not for surfers. My flat mate called it "Shopper's Paradise." I didn't mind it, but there were other areas around Gold Coast I liked a lot more. Brisbane felt just right to me as far as size and the pace of life. Also did some work in Redcliffe. That was nice. Very family-oriented community there.

[nomadiccarpenter]

14 hours ago, newjez said:

The prices in UK have gone ballistic this year, but especially in the rural areas. Don't know where your house is, but I would expect a pleasant valuation. Probably more than you think it's worth. Possibly a lot more.

Things seem to be selling very quickly, often before they are listed. It's a crazy market. Makes it hard to judge prices as there is very little on the market.

Be very careful when valuing. Don't sell it too low.

Same here in the US. I'm in Austin, Texas and people/investors are paying 100K over the asking price. I'm not sure what they're paying for and where all this wealth is coming from. I hear it's about lack of supply in US, not sure if it's the same elsewhere - I imagine this could be on purpose for the sake of rising property value. There's also the timbre shortage. Would love the real estate market to just freeze or cool for 5-10 years and let the youth catch up and own property. Something's gotta be done.

Even if we see a crash, I doubt prices would drop to affordable levels. It's still a long term investment and people here flipping and gentrifying suburbs will get burned eventually.

[MARYROSE02]

14 hours ago, newjez said:

The prices in UK have gone ballistic this year, but especially in the rural areas. Don't know where your house is, but I would expect a pleasant valuation. Probably more than you think it's worth. Possibly a lot more.

Things seem to be selling very quickly, often before they are listed. It's a crazy market. Makes it hard to judge prices as there is very little on the market.

Be very careful when valuing. Don't sell it too low.

No doubt I will be thinking, "If only I'd waited till 2022 (when the pound was worth 3 dollars too?!)

Near Southampton,  but not a posh part of the New Forest.

[Rallyman]

On 25/06/2021 at 09:35, Marisawright said:

If you are thinking of buying in Sydney, then selling up in three or four years and moving to Brisbane, then DO NOT DO IT!     You will lose money on it, because your costs of buying and selling, plus your mortgage interest, will be far, far more than you would've paid in rent during that time, even at Sydney prices.

Your best plan could be to buy a property up in Brisbane as soon as you can, and rent it out for the first few years, until you're ready to move up there and live in it yourself.  

To explain in more detail in case you're interested:  if there is a "first home buyers" scheme when you arrive, there may not be stamp duty to pay, so let's assume that's the case.  You'll have to pay conveyancing costs of around $2,000.  Then you'll need a mortgage and there will be application fees.  On a $550,000 property, you'll pay about $30,000 a year in mortgage payments, plus council rates, water rates and (if you buy an apartment or maisonette, which is likely in Sydney) strata fees of around $5,000 a year.  

Now let's say you stay in Sydney for two years.  Over those two years, the home you've bought has cost you at least $70,000.  That's all money out the door, because in the first 5 years of your mortgage, you're just paying off interest - you haven't paid anything off the mortgage at all.   Then you'll have another $5,000 to shell out to sell the place. You could probably have rented a nicer place in a nicer suburb during that time for less than that. 

Obviously, the gamble is that the property has risen in price during that time - which at one time, in Sydney, you could confidently gamble on.  Not so much now.

Don’t think you will be buying much for $550k in sydney 

I read the other week house prices are rising $1000 per week in sydney. 

[Paul1Perth]

On 15/06/2021 at 06:06, Marisawright said:

Bit the problem then is that the government will have to build more social housing because there will be a shortage of rental properties 

Those properies are going to be available though, someone has to live there, maybe it would have the affect of reducing house prices for buyers.

[Parley]

19 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Don’t think you will be buying much for $550k in sydney 

 

A car park spot. Certainly not a house.

[Paul1Perth]

On 26/06/2021 at 11:37, newjez said:

The prices in UK have gone ballistic this year, but especially in the rural areas. Don't know where your house is, but I would expect a pleasant valuation. Probably more than you think it's worth. Possibly a lot more.

Things seem to be selling very quickly, often before they are listed. It's a crazy market. Makes it hard to judge prices as there is very little on the market.

Be very careful when valuing. Don't sell it too low.

That's good news. My Sis still has my Mum and Dads place to sell. Rented out at the mo, so no rush.

[Rallyman]

4 hours ago, Parley said:

A car park spot. Certainly not a house.

You are not far off the mark 

[nomadiccarpenter]

Or maybe a 200K marina berth I see accidentally pop up in my searches. Anyone ever owned one as a rental investment? Not planning on it myself, just curious.

[Paul1Perth]

On 25/06/2021 at 02:54, nomadiccarpenter said:

I have a good problem right now, but I'm torn. When I finally arrive to NSW in '22, I will fortunately have enough for a down payment and then some. I'm very eager to own property and have my own place. However, my heart is set on Brisbane after my two years in NSW are up. Is it worth waiting two years to buy in Brisbane or wiser to go ahead and buy in Sydney (if I can) and maybe Bris later?

If you can I'd buy in Sydney and Bris later. The whole time we've lived here Sydney and Melbourne properties have risen by more than anywhere else when things are good. 

I've often thought there has to be a correction but it's never really happened. My guess is, if you can buy in Sydney it will increase in value and give you even more for your move to Bris. 

Queensland seems on a par with WA. Never the massive rises that the major 2 get. Although at one time WA prices got close but then we had a few years where they didn't go anywhere, backwards if anything. Going a bit nuts now mind you.

Never really bothered us as we bought because we like where we live, gives us the lifestyle we want and we've never thought about how much we've made/lost. Never had enough for investment properties and TBH, never wanted the hassle of renters maybe not paying, another property to think about fixing up.