Border opening now mid 2022

[Paul1Perth]

On 27/06/2021 at 15:50, Marisawright said:

I'm sure they weren't - maybe on a teacher's pay, we were just dirt poor.  

Though, where did you fly from?  I can imagine people in the South of England holidaying abroad because there would be a lot more cheap flights from London than from Scottish or North of England airports in those days.  Just the cost and time to get down to London was enough to put us off in those days.

First time abroad I went with 2 other friends, flew from Derby airport to Benidorm. Would have been about 1972.

[Paul1Perth]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

Australia provided free quarantine for a long time too, giving people who wanted to return the ability to. And they were urged to return at that time.

There's an awful lot of people never paid for their quarantine. I saw on the news a couple of weeks ago the government were thinking of getting debt collectors to chase some up.

My guess is they'll just write it off for most people. They don't want to make a massive fuss as all the people that paid will want to know why some never did. In the scheme of things I guess costs for quarantine might just have to be worn.

Least it kept a few hotels going and gave people some work.

[Karl D]

On 27/06/2021 at 23:32, Marisawright said:

There are some uneducated people in Australia who think closing the borders was intended to rid the country of the virus.  However, the government never thought that.  The official policy has always been suppression of the virus, not eradication.   Eradication happened by sheer good luck.

The original purpose was to keep the virus out to give the health system time to ramp up, order extra ventilators etc.  Then, when it was so successful, borders were kept closed to give time to develop and distribute vaccines.  Unfortunately, Australia then bet on the wrong horse in the vaccine race, and was slow off the mark in obtaining supplies

What has happened since is that eradication is very, very popular with the electorate and we've reached a point where no deaths are acceptable.  There were 800-odd deaths in the Victorian outbreak and that is still seen as a massive national tragedy.  The Federal Government knows that they will never get 100% of the population vaccinated, so when they open the borders, deaths will happen and they'll get the blame - and there's a federal election next year.  Some are predicting that they will keep the borders closed until they are safely back in power for another term. 

 

this is what I was trying to say.

[Jon the Hat]

On 30/06/2021 at 00:57, Parley said:

Australia provided free quarantine for a long time too, giving people who wanted to return the ability to. And they were urged to return at that time.

This is all government spin.  People who were on HOLIDAY or business trips were urged to return.  Those with homes and jobs were told to stay put.  Since then, people lost jobs, visas expired and many people who planned to be away a year or two just plain wanted to come home.  They have a legal right to enter Australia, and now their government is effectively blocking that right by making it more and more difficult and through it's failure to provide facilities for them to do so safely, as well as its failure to vaccinate the population to also reduce the risks.

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

This is all government spin.  People who were on HOLIDAY or business trips were urged to return.  Those with homes and jobs were told to stay put.  Since then, people lost jobs, visas expired and many people who planned to be away a year or two just plain wanted to come home.  They have a legal right to enter Australia, and now their government is effectively blocking that right by making it more and more difficult and through it's failure to provide facilities for them to do so safely, as well as its failure to vaccinate the population to also reduce the risks.

I think we have differing opinions on a number of points but I do agree the federal government failed in its duty to take responsibility for quarantine. It should have used existing quarantine facilities to safely manage returning residents/citizens while also throwing up new purpose built quarantine structures across Australia to enable larger numbers to return safely, without risk to the Australian public.

Hotels were never a good idea and it feels like their time has passed with the arrival of the delta variant.

[Paul1Perth]

On 26/05/2021 at 08:07, Graham Fletcher said:

As shown today in Victoria, cases are inevitable. Being isolationist is just going to damage us economically and there will still be outbreaks on a regular basis. Putting a timetable on reopening may spur people to get vaccinated - far too many people are saying they aren't getting the jabs because there is no need in Australia, which in term continues to slow down the reopening. it's a vicious circle

There's been a massive leap in vaccinations, due to the latest cases and lockdowns. 

Surely that should be enough to get people vaccinated.

[Paul1Perth]

On 02/07/2021 at 21:13, Karl D said:

 

this is what I was trying to say.

Headline grabber from the washington post to take the American public off their own woes. 

[nomadiccarpenter]

13 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

There's been a massive leap in vaccinations, due to the latest cases and lockdowns. 

Surely that should be enough to get people vaccinated.

A shame that is what it takes. Friend of mine in her 70s wasn't going to get vaccinated until a break out happened.

[rtritudr]

15 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Headline grabber from the washington post to take the American public off their own woes. 

In the mean time people in Europe are still cursing that the US won't let them enter:

https://www.ft.com/content/64a0018e-214e-455f-8cf3-d4e407b5b1d2

Hopes fade for US-UK travel corridor before end of summer

[Karl D]

So cancelled my flights for the 5th time and just re-booked with Qatar today for 3rd April 22, any chance you could get yourselves sorted by then?

Found out this week we will have a second grandchild by then so really hoping we can get there.

[Tulip1]

2 hours ago, Karl D said:

So cancelled my flights for the 5th time and just re-booked with Qatar today for 3rd April 22, any chance you could get yourselves sorted by then?

Found out this week we will have a second grandchild by then so really hoping we can get there.

Sadly I doubt it.  The last I heard was July 2022 for the start of borders opening up but that will be for those in Australia to travel away first in think. Tourists in are likely to be after that.  I hope that’s not the case but sadly I think it probably is.  

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Tulip1 said:

Sadly I doubt it.  The last I heard was July 2022 for the start of borders opening up but that will be for those in Australia to travel away first in think. Tourists in are likely to be after that.  I hope that’s not the case but sadly I think it probably is.  

I think you are right.    In fact, I have a horrible feeling the borders won't open much until the next federal election, whenever that is (probably late 2022).

The problem, as I'm now realising, is that we're never going to get 90% of the population vaccinated.   There is far too much "vaccine hesitancy".   We're going to end up like the UK, with only 70% to 80%.     The UK, right now, is a good indicator of what it would be like if we opened the borders at that level of vaccination.  Cases would rocket. Deaths would be low, but the Australian population has got used to the idea of zero deaths, and they'll blame the federal government when people start dying.   Our current government is run by marketers and I think they'll be too scared of that reaction to open up before they're safely re-elected for another term.  

It's a real issue.  The fact is that if we do reach 80%, then we open up and people start dying, most of those deaths will be idiots who refused to get vaccinated.  One could argue that they made that choice and therefore they just have to take that risk.  Why should we all keep on wearing masks and isolating just to protect them, if they're too stupid to protect themselves?  But then there's the pressure on the health system to consider, and the risk of mutations.  Tough.

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

I think you are right.    In fact, I have a horrible feeling the borders won't open much until the next federal election, whenever that is (probably late 2022).

The problem, as I'm now realising, is that we're never going to get 90% of the population vaccinated.   There is far too much "vaccine hesitancy".   We're going to end up like the UK, with only 70% to 80%.     The UK, right now, is a good indicator of what it would be like if we opened the borders at that level of vaccination.  Cases would rocket. Deaths would be low, but the Australian population has got used to the idea of zero deaths, and they'll blame the federal government when people start dying.   Our current government is run by marketers and I think they'll be too scared of that reaction to open up before they're safely re-elected for another term.  

It's a real issue.  The fact is that if we do reach 80%, then we open up and people start dying, most of those deaths will be idiots who refused to get vaccinated.  One could argue that they made that choice and therefore they just have to take that risk.  Why should we all keep on wearing masks and isolating just to protect them, if they're too stupid to protect themselves?  But then there's the pressure on the health system to consider, and the risk of mutations.  Tough.

I think if we get to 70% - 80% vaccinated, pressure will start building to open the borders as unvaccinated will be in the minority and politicians play to the majority. At the moment, closed borders are popular so Mr Morrison keeps them closed, the second that becomes unpopular he'll throw them open to win votes. If 70% - 80% are vaccinated and agitating to travel overseas, visit family etc, then keeping the borders closed could hurt them at the election. Its anyones guess, but I think (perhaps hope) that a roadmap to 'open' borders will come out early 2022 - 'open' meaning to countries with high vaccination rates. So a two tier border system and quarantine for other countries, commencing maybe March to April 2022, assuming no vaccine resistant strains.