Going Home!

[shiner]

Interesting article in AFR this weekend.

Colin.pdf

[Ken]

3 hours ago, shiner said:

Interesting article in AFR this weekend.

Colin.pdf

There were lots of interesting articles in AFR this weekend but I couldn't see one called Going Home!

Any clues as to which one article you are referring to?

Your link doesn't work.

 

[Marisawright]

That's odd, it worked for me, but it doesn't now.

[le petit roi]

20 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That's odd, it worked for me, but it doesn't now.

There is this one: https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/skilled-migrants-weigh-whether-to-stay-or-go-20210514-p57rzj

Not much reading material worthy of reading and consideration in my opinion; a poor article.

Edited May 16, 2021 by le petit roi

[shiner]

[emanyalpsid]

What is the outbound travel ban all about. It's terrible

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, emanyalpsid said:

What is the outbound travel ban all about. It's terrible

Very, very simple.  If you let people leave freely for holidays, they've got to come back.  And then they're going to take up a place in quarantine, and there aren't enough places to go around already.

You might say the government should provide more quarantine places, and I agree - but for genuine stranded Australians only. I don't see why I, and other Australian taxpayers, should have to pay the high cost of quarantine for people who don't really need to travel.

[Parley]

Be careful clinking on links from strangers.

I wasn't prepared to click.

[emanyalpsid]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Very, very simple.  If you let people leave freely for holidays, they've got to come back.  And then they're going to take up a place in quarantine, and there aren't enough places to go around already.

You might say the government should provide more quarantine places, and I agree - but for genuine stranded Australians only. I don't see why I, and other Australian taxpayers, should have to pay the high cost of quarantine for people who don't really need to travel.

Is the quarantine funded by the government or the traveller?

9 hours ago, Parley said:

Be careful clinking on links from strangers.

I wasn't prepared to click.

Neither, especially with a low post count. I read off the image someone posted.

[Marisawright]

5 minutes ago, emanyalpsid said:

Is the quarantine funded by the government or the traveller?

The traveller pays a fee for quarantine but it is far short of the actual cost to the government.

[emanyalpsid]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The traveller pays a fee for quarantine but it is far short of the actual cost to the government.

Really. Crazy times. Do you know the rough numbers? Cost/govt cobtribution/traveller contribution

[Skani]

11 hours ago, emanyalpsid said:

 Do you know the rough numbers? Cost/govt cobtribution/traveller contribution

Each state manages its own quarantine facilities so the cost varies.  But it's around $2800 for first adult in a family (traveller contribution).  Additional cost for other adults and children.  I'm not sure if any of the governments have released their quarantine costings.

[NicF]

24 minutes ago, Skani said:

Each state manages its own quarantine facilities so the cost varies.  But it's around $2800 for first adult in a family (traveller contribution).  Additional cost for other adults and children.  I'm not sure if any of the governments have released their quarantine costings.

I heard something on the radio about the cost of quarantine to the government or SA Health in  South Australia but didn't catch exactly what they said.  I think it was just for 6 months and was well over $1million.  I couldn't find anything about it from a search on the internet though.  I think the issue in releasing the costs is clearing identifying the costs as so many different agencies are involved.

[Paul1Perth]

1 hour ago, NicF said:

I heard something on the radio about the cost of quarantine to the government or SA Health in  South Australia but didn't catch exactly what they said.  I think it was just for 6 months and was well over $1million.  I couldn't find anything about it from a search on the internet though.  I think the issue in releasing the costs is clearing identifying the costs as so many different agencies are involved.

Our friends daughter is in quarantine in Perth till Thursday. She managed to get back from Holland, took some luck mind you.

It's not cheap but is subsidised. She has a suite and says the food is really good. 

I guess the upside to subsidies is it's kept the hotels viable, with a steady income and employed a lot of people who are paying taxes.

Not ideal for quarantine but doing the best they can.

[emanyalpsid]

Yes it's ok saying it costs the govt. money but as @Paul1Perth alludes to I think a large part of it is keeping industries afloat. Surely with the amounts we are talking the traveller is paying the full cost of the hotel/food and the govt is paying for the infrastructure test/trace/organisation and claiming this is a quarantine cost? 1 Million for 6 months of a govt program doesn't shock me tbh.

[Marisawright]

16 minutes ago, emanyalpsid said:

 Surely with the amounts we are talking the traveller is paying the full cost of the hotel/food and the govt is paying for the infrastructure 

I very much doubt it.  First, have you looked at how much Australian hotels charge per night just for a room?  The government will be getting a discount but not that much, I bet, because they require the hotel to provide a full cohort of support staff.  Then there are several security guards on duty 24 hours a day in each hotel. I used to manage security and I can tell you, that's thousands of dollars on its own. Then there are 24-hour nursing staff.  Then there are supplies - masks, protective clothing. Then there are the extra cleaners.  Then there are all the upgrades they've had to make to the air-conditioning, ventilation, airflow between rooms etc.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Marisawright

[emanyalpsid]

12 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I very much doubt it.  First, have you looked at how much Australian hotels charge per night just for a room?  The government will be getting a discount but not that much, I bet, because they require the hotel to provide a full cohort of support staff.  Then there are several security guards on duty 24 hours a day in each hotel. I used to manage security and I can tell you, that's thousands of dollars on its own. Then there are 24-hour nursing staff.  Then there are supplies - masks, protective clothing. Then there are the extra cleaners.  Then there are all the upgrades they've had to make to the air-conditioning, ventilation, airflow between rooms etc.

My god, you're right...the world has truly gone mad

Edited May 18, 2021 by emanyalpsid

[Nemesis]

4 hours ago, emanyalpsid said:

My god, you're right...the world has truly gone mad

Its a negotiated room rate between the govt and the hotel, but is generally a lot less than the hotel would get letting the room in normal conditions. The advantage for them is that the govt have the rooms on contract and pay even when they are empty - so that they are kept usable by any unexpected quarantining arrivals. 

Have a look at some room rates for 4-5 star hotels in Brisbane and the Gold Coast for a 2 week stay to find the usual figure, its quite a bit higher in many cases. $260 upwards just for the room is not unknown.

Note - I am not defending or condemning the cost, just giving facts. . 

[Ken]

On 18/05/2021 at 17:02, Marisawright said:

I very much doubt it.  First, have you looked at how much Australian hotels charge per night just for a room?  The government will be getting a discount but not that much, I bet, because they require the hotel to provide a full cohort of support staff.  Then there are several security guards on duty 24 hours a day in each hotel. I used to manage security and I can tell you, that's thousands of dollars on its own. Then there are 24-hour nursing staff.  Then there are supplies - masks, protective clothing. Then there are the extra cleaners.  Then there are all the upgrades they've had to make to the air-conditioning, ventilation, airflow between rooms etc.

The problems that have been experienced with hotel quarantine suggest they haven't spent a cent on upgrades to the air-conditioning, ventilation or airflow between rooms!

[Parley]

2 minutes ago, Ken said:

The problems that have been experienced with hotel quarantine suggest they haven't spent a cent on upgrades to the air-conditioning, ventilation or airflow between rooms!

Rubbish. This is the main issue that hotels have to meet.

Lots of upgrades have been required to be made for hotels participating That is why any transmission is very rare now considering the number of people in quarantine.

The riskiest time may be in the corridor when leaving your room on the last day/

[Ken]

36 minutes ago, Parley said:

Rubbish. This is the main issue that hotels have to meet.

Lots of upgrades have been required to be made for hotels participating That is why any transmission is very rare now considering the number of people in quarantine.

The riskiest time may be in the corridor when leaving your room on the last day/

No Hotel complies with quarantine standards. These require the rooms to be kept at a negative pressure of 30Pa below ambient and to have an anteroom (often referred to as an airlock) kept at a negative pressure of 15Pa below ambient.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Ken said:

The problems that have been experienced with hotel quarantine suggest they haven't spent a cent on upgrades to the air-conditioning, ventilation or airflow between rooms!

They have done quite a number of upgrades to improve airflow and prevent contamination between rooms.  But it's still not up to the standards of a hospital-grade quarantine

[rtritudr]

21 hours ago, Parley said:

The riskiest time may be in the corridor when leaving your room on the last day/

Having done two weeks of hotel quarantine recently, I'd say that the riskiest time is when you open your door to collect/put out items up to five times each day.  Especially because the system is set up such that everybody opens their door around the same time to collect their meals.

[psuwara]

I think people are being overly reactive.

The entire coronavirus situation in very dynamic. The government is correct in saying border will be open by mid 2022, because by then, they are guaranteed to be right, especially given the rate of vaccination around the world.

However, the fact that the US and UK are going to be done Vaccinating by August this year, and Australia will have a lot of it's population vaccinated by the end of the year. The reality of what will happen could look quite different.

The article also doesn't make sense. Why would someone move back to the UK to get the grand kids growing up with family, when in 1.5 years the borders will open anyway, just seems like a whinge fest fluff piece. 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, psuwara said:

The article also doesn't make sense. Why would someone move back to the UK to get the grand kids growing up with family, when in 1.5 years the borders will open anyway, just seems like a whinge fest fluff piece. 

I can understand these families being annoyed, because they came to Australia with a specific expectation that they'd be able to have a visit, one way or the other, every year - and now they can't.

However when you think about it, it is such a middle-class first-world problem.  Most migrants I know are not rich enough to afford a long annual visit in either direction. My first husband and I were both working with no kids, but we found it expensive to visit every two years, let alone annually.  Besides, it makes little sense to complain that children are growing up without their grandparents - even pre-Covid, they were growing up without grandparents for 90% of the year by the parents' choice.  Do they really think a few weeks a year makes such an enormous difference?

I do think Covid is making many people reassess the importance of being close to family.  Just look at the large numbers of Australians choosing to return to Oz permanently, for that reason.