Back to UK for vaccine?

[mt9754]

1 minute ago, Ken said:

You are right, a more dangerous strain getting out before vaccination could cause 20,000 deaths in Australia - but dangerous strains are already on the loose in the UK and you want to go there unvaccinated! It's clearly a huge risk travelling to the UK unvaccinated where you know Covid is on the loose and spending a minimum of 4 weeks unprotected from it (depending on how quickly you can get your two shots and how long they then need to take effect). Waiting in Australia where (while there's always a risk of an outbreak) it's not currently on the loose is far safer.

 It makes sense to stay in Oz, i’m just so frustrated at the glacial pace of the vaccine rollout and opening up :(.  Especially now deaths are approaching zero in UK and they are opening back up for good, the US not far behind too.

Thanks everyone for your replies, wish there were other options but I will just need to suck it up like everyone else haha.

[HappyHeart]

18 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

 It makes sense to stay in Oz, i’m just so frustrated at the glacial pace of the vaccine rollout and opening up :(.  Especially now deaths are approaching zero in UK and they are opening back up for good, the US not far behind too.

Thanks everyone for your replies, wish there were other options but I will just need to suck it up like everyone else haha.

You're far safer here. Without doubt, vaccine not withstanding. 

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, Parley said:

I'm more worried about the South African variant which AZ does not protect against.

 

You are confusing new variants where there is no data yet to prove it does work with it not working.  There is also no evidence that any variants yet discovered can beat the vaccine.

[rtritudr]

11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

If there was another "escape" in Melbourne today, where few people are wearing masks or bothering to socially distance, it would spread like wildfire.  Then all those people who waited for Pfizer thinking "there's no rush", will be swamping the vaccination centres and struggling to get an appointment.  And remember, you need two doses 90 days apart.

The recommended minimum separation for Pfizer is 21 days, not 90.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/downloads/prep-and-admin-summary.pdf

[rtritudr]

4 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

Fair enough if you don't want to come back until it's all over, and you meet the criteria to leave. However, unless they've changed the rules there's a blanket travel ban on Australian citizens and those with PR.

There is a back door open via New Zealand:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-ve-escaped-aussies-use-kiwi-bubble-as-back-door-to-defy-travel-ban-20210422-p57lne.html

‘I’ve escaped!’: Aussies use Kiwi bubble as back door to defy travel ban

[jimmyay1]

I'm under 50 and have had the vaccine already as family work in healtcare sector so i qualify. Had no hesitation whatsoever to be given Astra Zeneca. Its a great, safe, very effective and low risk vaccine. 

People are useless at assesing risk.  Some of the same people saying "relax, i'm waiting for pfizer". Yet they will take risks which present more than 1 in 250,000 risk of a clot or 1 in 1 million threat of death which is what Astra is, every day of their week just by jumping in their car or taking part in a whole host of everyday activities ( go climb a ladder for instance?).

Seriously, anyone over 50 -  who now qualify for a jab, should be absolutely beating down the door of the vaccination centres to get jabbed. I did it as soon as i could in April.  Australia needs to be vaccinated as a national priority so we can re--open.  Everyone should be doing their bit - it's your civic duty to help others -  and it is crazy that vaccine centres are empty here in Oz. Just hopeless.  There are loads of OAPs who are the most at risk saying theyll wait til later to get a vaccine??  Madness.  There'll be an outbreak and everyone will panic. 

My second jab is in July. Once i'm fully  immunised, no one will stop me leaving the country to see relatives in the UK -  i will just go via NZ if need be. The outward travel ban is probably illegal in any case. 

I have plenty of leave, having been locked up for over a year and it's worth the risk (threats of prison for leaving the country - just read that back and tell me this is on any planet normal -  yet its what the health minister in Aus has put in place for Australians who dare to try and leave the country without permission - East Germany and North Korea come to mind as pretty much the only countries that have done this) .

 Europe and the rest of the world are going to be pretty open in the next 3 months and most of the Western World will have completed their vaccination programmes or at least be very well advanced.  

Little old Aussie will hide under the blanket forever refusing vaccines ?  And with a populace cheering on politicians who are putting laws on the statute books which allow for the  imprisonment of people who try and leave the country???  Saying people shouldn't be going to see families overseas for funerals and elderly parents requiring help are no exception?   Really? 

I know many in Aus would close the borders forever but no thanks. 

We should all be very angry about the incompetence and cruelty of some of the current rules and make our views known to authorities whenever we can. 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by jimmyay1

[Parley]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

You are confusing new variants where there is no data yet to prove it does work with it not working.  There is also no evidence that any variants yet discovered can beat the vaccine.

... clinical trials and laboratory studies show the AstraZeneca vaccine is only about 10% effective at protecting against the South African variant, 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/14/variants-challenge-lockdown-covid-vaccines-south-african

[jimmyay1]

There's been quite a lot of talk about a universal Covid vaccine recently, in development. A lot  of promising work and studies.

Its been suggested it may be available as soon as the end of 2021. 

Finding the Universal Coronavirus Vaccine - The Atlantic

 

[Parley]

13 hours ago, Marisawright said:

If there was another "escape" in Melbourne today, where few people are wearing masks or bothering to socially distance, it would spread like wildfire.  Then all those people who waited for Pfizer thinking "there's no rush", will be swamping the vaccination centres and struggling to get an appointment.  And remember, you need two doses 90 days apart.

No. Pfizer doses are taken 3 weeks apart or 21 days.

[Jon the Hat]

13 minutes ago, Parley said:

... clinical trials and laboratory studies show the AstraZeneca vaccine is only about 10% effective at protecting against the South African variant, 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/14/variants-challenge-lockdown-covid-vaccines-south-african

I mean that study had 42 cases of which 39 were that variant, but if you want to reject the vaccine which is behind at least half the massive reduction in cases in the UK be my guest.

[Parley]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I mean that study had 42 cases of which 39 were that variant, but if you want to reject the vaccine which is behind at least half the massive reduction in cases in the UK be my guest.

I was simply pointing out your incorrect statement. That is all.

But yes, I plan to wait for Pfizer.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Parley

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Parley said:

I was simply pointing out your incorrect statement. That is all.

But yes, I plan to wait for Pfizer.

And in Australia that has no immediate impact, apart from the poor buggers in the Tourism industry perhaps, and those stuck in Australia until vaccination is 100%.  Its those in Europe who are literally dying for govt led fear of a tiny tiny tiny possibility.  Its very sad.

[newjez]

14 hours ago, MacGyver said:

I think the Pfizer deliveries are expected to increase slowly through until the last quarter of the year, at which point there will be a significant increase of delivery (if it goes to plan) and a ramping up of vaccination hubs. All Australians will supposedly have been offered a first shot by end of year (give or take).

Given the bulk of Pfizer won’t arrive until October ish, if I was in your shoes I might be tempted to move flights to March/April 2022 rather than late 2021, to give time for borders to possibly start opening with vaccinated countries (UK/US etc). It’s still all a bit uncertain but I’d be very surprised if much had changed by December.

Hopefully, if the UK continues to get things under control there might be some concessions for vaccinated people from the UK. Hopefully. I'd like to see my parents again.

[MacGyver]

4 hours ago, rtritudr said:

There is a back door open via New Zealand:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-ve-escaped-aussies-use-kiwi-bubble-as-back-door-to-defy-travel-ban-20210422-p57lne.html

‘I’ve escaped!’: Aussies use Kiwi bubble as back door to defy travel ban

It may be a way out for a handful of people, but getting back in will be extremely difficult. The example in the story is a person ordinarily resident in Russia who has left Australia permanently.

Being separated from family is hard, but at the risk of sounding callous, I'm surprised how many people have suddenly realised that migrating to the other side of the world means separation from family in the UK. 

[jimmyay1]

6 hours ago, MacGyver said:

It may be a way out for a handful of people, but getting back in will be extremely difficult. The example in the story is a person ordinarily resident in Russia who has left Australia permanently.

Being separated from family is hard, but at the risk of sounding callous, I'm surprised how many people have suddenly realised that migrating to the other side of the world means separation from family in the UK. 

I know what you’re trying to say but the reality is not really comparable. 

- everyone knows and accepts when moving across the world there will be extended periods apart from family. 
 

however what makes this very different is that no one would have moved envisaging they’d be forcibly locked away from family for potentially years with no possibility of return even under urgent circumstances- which has been the case for many thousands rejected from leaving. 
 

in addition,  what makes so terrible for people is there’s no roadmap or any kind of plan or statement about how or when the situation might change -  just threats of punishment and ever more frankly abusive rhetoric from some state premiers about those with families overseas.

it’s completely different and a million miles away from the situation anyone signed up for.  And it’s unique to Oz, not being able to legally leave without explicit permission and paperwork, even if you want to. 

 

[mt9754]

 I hear that today the UK has secured 60 million additional Pfizer jabs for a booster programme in Q3.  Yet Australia can’t even secure a decent number for a first jab until Q4.  The mind boggles.

[Parley]

On 28/04/2021 at 10:24, newjez said:

I would be worried about the Indian variant.

The Pfizer Biotech vaccine is effective against the Indian variant of COVID-19, according to BioNTech’s co-founder who says his company has already tested for mutations.

Relatives watch the cremation of a loved one at Nigambodh Ghat Crematorium in New Delh. Picture: AFP

Ugur Sahin said he is confident that the Indian variant, which the World Health Organisation said is driving the country’s cases spike and has already reportedly reached 18 countries, can be treated by the company’s jointly developed vaccine.

“We are still testing the Indian variant, but the Indian variant has mutations that we have already tested for and which our vaccine works against, so I am confident,” Mr Sahin said.

[Parley]

Sad News today. Our thoughts and prayers are with their families.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/nsw/two-nsw-men-die-after-receiving-astrazeneca-covid-vaccines-20210429-p57niu.html

[Mmmbop]

23 hours ago, MacGyver said:

I do hope you reported it

I can well understand the desperation of people cut off from their families with no end in sight.

Meanwhile no rush, and complacency from government.

I fail to see the logic or ethics or preventing dual citizens from leaving the country to visit family. If they choose to do so, knowing the difficulties of re-entry, what right does the government have to stop them? It's callous, frankly. 

[Mmmbop]

On 28/04/2021 at 16:19, mt9754 said:

You have to meet the criteria, as i’ve not been in Australia long and most of my ties are still with the UK and I currently meet the criteria.

For me, leaving is fine but wouldn’t feel right to return (morally) until they open up international travel a bit more and the caps are gone.  Otherwise I’d feel i’d be travelling against the spirit of the rules (but not the letter).

Do you have any link to the criteria? I thought they constituted 'exceptional circumstances'.

[mt9754]

10 minutes ago, Mmmbop said:

Do you have any link to the criteria? I thought they constituted 'exceptional circumstances'.

https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia#toc-6

Check out Ordinary Resident section.  So the 12 out of 24 months is not actually a thing and the real legislation disagrees:

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/covid-19/Documents/outward-travel-restrictions-operation-directive.pdf

Quote

There is no numerical calculation as to whether someone is ‘usually resident’ in a country other than Australia – it is a matter of judgement. Acceptable evidence may include, but is not limited to:

   a. government issued documentation (for example foreign driver's licence) which is supported by one other type of documentation confirming:
   b. owning or renting property in a foreign country (e.g. utility bills, rates notices, lease agreement)
   c. location of immediate family members
   d. employment contract

Note: Length of time spent onshore in Australia prior to last departure (movement record history) and significant ties offshore should all be taken into consideration when determining residency status.

So it boils down to common sense, I think for most of us we would be considered ordinary residents in Australia.

Edited April 29, 2021 by mt9754
formatting

[Ken]

1 hour ago, Mmmbop said:

I fail to see the logic or ethics or preventing dual citizens from leaving the country to visit family. If they choose to do so, knowing the difficulties of re-entry, what right does the government have to stop them? It's callous, frankly. 

Because they'll take quarantine spaces away from people who have been waiting longer. For whatever reason it's not a first come, first served system and anyone allowed to leave the country is going to push their way in to the re-entry queue.

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, Mmmbop said:

I can well understand the desperation of people cut off from their families with no end in sight.

Meanwhile no rush, and complacency from government.

I fail to see the logic or ethics or preventing dual citizens from leaving the country to visit family. If they choose to do so, knowing the difficulties of re-entry, what right does the government have to stop them? It's callous, frankly. 

The decision to limit travel is certainly a debate worth having, each position has merit and I suspect we would be on opposite sides of that debate. 

Putting that debate to one side, trying to circumvent the rules that are currently in place by lying or dishonesty is the part I take issue with.

[Jon the Hat]

23 hours ago, jimmyay1 said:

I'm under 50 and have had the vaccine already as family work in healtcare sector so i qualify. Had no hesitation whatsoever to be given Astra Zeneca. Its a great, safe, very effective and low risk vaccine. 

People are useless at assesing risk.  Some of the same people saying "relax, i'm waiting for pfizer". Yet they will take risks which present more than 1 in 250,000 risk of a clot or 1 in 1 million threat of death which is what Astra is, every day of their week just by jumping in their car or taking part in a whole host of everyday activities ( go climb a ladder for instance?).

Seriously, anyone over 50 -  who now qualify for a jab, should be absolutely beating down the door of the vaccination centres to get jabbed. I did it as soon as i could in April.  Australia needs to be vaccinated as a national priority so we can re--open.  Everyone should be doing their bit - it's your civic duty to help others -  and it is crazy that vaccine centres are empty here in Oz. Just hopeless.  There are loads of OAPs who are the most at risk saying theyll wait til later to get a vaccine??  Madness.  There'll be an outbreak and everyone will panic. 

My second jab is in July. Once i'm fully  immunised, no one will stop me leaving the country to see relatives in the UK -  i will just go via NZ if need be. The outward travel ban is probably illegal in any case. 

I have plenty of leave, having been locked up for over a year and it's worth the risk (threats of prison for leaving the country - just read that back and tell me this is on any planet normal -  yet its what the health minister in Aus has put in place for Australians who dare to try and leave the country without permission - East Germany and North Korea come to mind as pretty much the only countries that have done this) .

 Europe and the rest of the world are going to be pretty open in the next 3 months and most of the Western World will have completed their vaccination programmes or at least be very well advanced.  

Little old Aussie will hide under the blanket forever refusing vaccines ?  And with a populace cheering on politicians who are putting laws on the statute books which allow for the  imprisonment of people who try and leave the country???  Saying people shouldn't be going to see families overseas for funerals and elderly parents requiring help are no exception?   Really? 

I know many in Aus would close the borders forever but no thanks. 

We should all be very angry about the incompetence and cruelty of some of the current rules and make our views known to authorities whenever we can. 

 

While I share your outrage at the limits on our freedoms, don't be so sure the UK is much different;  Tenders are out for covid marshalls to start in July - after we are supposed to be back to normal.  Vaccine passports are threatening to be not just for international travel, but to go to the shops or the pub.  New Zealand and others meanwhile are talking about compulsory vaccination for people working in some sectors, and allowing companies to insist as well.  It's an Orwellian horror show.

[newjez]

5 hours ago, Parley said:

Sad News today. Our thoughts and prayers are with their families.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/nsw/two-nsw-men-die-after-receiving-astrazeneca-covid-vaccines-20210429-p57niu.html

You did read the article didn't you parley?

They said they do NOT think there was a link to the vaccine.

It is sad, but no more sadder that all the other deaths that occurred last week.